Engine won't fire after rebuilt

[Azar]

Hello, the mechanic has tried to start the engine. He cranked for 15 seconds. There were occasional firing but it would not start. We will need to replace the battery on Monday and try again.
At least the oil pressure is up while cranking (low pressure was the reason for rebuild).

In the meantime, perhaps you have some clues of where to look at? Please see the video. Thanks!
https://youtu.be/MWUxsRSg7NA


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[DMC5180]

From the sound of the couple pops, it sound like it’s out of time or incorrect ignition wire placement. Was the distributor removed?

[Azar]

Yes it was removed...Looks very good inside. We also think the ignition distribution most probably. Thanks for advise!

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[Rich]

Yes, fresh battery will be good.

First step is to see if it's mainly a fuel or ignition issue. The pops during cranking suggest you have some of both available.

Try it with starting fluid. If it fires and runs/races smoothly for even just 2-5 seconds on that then chase the fuel issue first. If not, then ignition.

[DMC5180]

Yes, fresh battery will be good.

First step is to see if it's mainly a fuel or ignition issue. The pops during cranking suggest you have some of both available.

Try it with starting fluid. If it fires and runs/races smoothly for even just 2-5 seconds on that then chase the fuel issue first. If not, then ignition.

To me, the two pops sounded like it was coming from the intake.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Make sure the distributor cap is fully seated. It can be tricky if your intake is still on the engine.

[mark w]

sounds like ignition timing is off. or cam timing. what was rebuilt?

[Azar]

Mechanic has put the ignition distributor cap other way around initially and he fixed it. We also got new battery. But this time there was no fuel pressure, he said the fuel pump was not working. He removed the RPM relay and jumped it - fuel pump started to buzz but the engine still did not start. He will try tomorrow again. Also he mentioned that the crankshaft pulley had two marks, 180 deg apart. Is this normal? He will remove the pulley to make sure the timing is correct looking at the mark on the crankshaft.

RPM Relay was working before.

[Azar]

sounds like ignition timing is off. or cam timing. what was rebuilt?
New cylinders and pistons, new oil pump, new crankshaft bearings and crankshaft was polished.

[dn010]

Also he mentioned that the crankshaft pulley had two marks, 180 deg apart. Is this normal? He will remove the pulley to make sure the timing is correct looking at the mark on the crankshaft.

Two marks is correct. See post #57 for explaination:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?13917-Missing-cylinders-during-idle/page6

[Azar]

Many thanks! But how does the RPM Relay senses the engine turning? Perhaps here the error.... Signal is not coming over because something else is malfunctioning


EDIT: the signal comes from the ignition coil. Post number 8: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?16102-Tach-signal

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[Ron]

. Also he mentioned that the crankshaft pulley had two marks, 180 deg apart. Is this normal? He will remove the pulley to make sure the timing is correct looking at the mark on the crankshaft.

RPM Relay was working before.
Have him to just pull #1 spark plug and use the mark that is at TDC (Top Dead Center) when the compression spits out the plug hole as the engine is rotated. (Then check that #1 plug wire fires just before TDC when it is bumped around with the key...showing that it is in the correct position in the cap...it won't be as obvious as it is to tell which mark to use was though.)
No offense, but he should already know this....


...
But how does the RPM Relay senses the engine turning? Perhaps here the error.... Signal is not coming over because something else is malfunctioning


EDIT: the signal comes from the ignition coil. Post number 8: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?16102-Tach-signal

Actually, the signal starts at the pickup coil (https://store.delorean.com/102678-impulse-pickup-coil.html) inside the distributor, which is connected to the ICU, which creates and sends a stronger (grounding) signal to: the coil, making it fire (each time the ground drops), the RPM relay, idle speed relay and tach.

FWIW- To me, it sounded like it was trying to fire early two times, and maybe two times late (thumps in exhaust), and not spaced evenly* ... Makes me suspect it's wired wrong (or something with the chains), too.

[Azar]

Thanks Ron! Yes, he told me he has done the test with Cylinder 1, just wanted to be sure.

Alright, will try to trace the signal loss, perhaps bad wire or connector.

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[Ron]

You're welcome!

You might warn him that the key is VERY prone to falling into the oil pan.

[Azar]

Found the error - Piggyback Connector on the Ballast resistor was broken...
:jawdrop:
The engine is up and running!!
https://store.delorean.com/parts/electrical/3-4-1-ignition-components.html
number 33
https://store.delorean.com/media/catalog/category/341-3-10-20.jpg

[bueller]

Congrats!

[Azar]

Congrats!Thanks! The oil pressure at 220 F just before the fans kick in showing 28 psi (and 65 psi just started).
Now need to tune the system, the exhaust is starting to glow. Probably running rich. Will see tomorrow...

[Ron]

:thumbup: ...next step :burnout:

[Azar]

Perhaps this video helps? https://youtu.be/OtNhiXOVB6o
Some unburned fuel heats up the exhaust. Currently the cat is empty (all was brocken inside) and I hope that there are no rest pieces in the exhaust (was running before rebuilt and did not see problems there)
Might be a wrong ignition angle?

[Azar]

Fixed. The distributor cap had to be turned a notch. So now back to getting all small things together...

[David T]

Fixed. The distributor cap had to be turned a notch. So now back to getting all small things together...
If the muffler is glowing the fuel plunger is probably stuck. You have to take the fuel distributer off the mixture unit and unstick the fuel plunger.

[Helirich]

Thanks! The oil pressure at 220 F just before the fans kick in showing 28 psi (and 65 psi just started).
Now need to tune the system, the exhaust is starting to glow. Probably running rich. Will see tomorrow...

28 is fine at idle. I hope it goes up some when you rev it.

[Azar]

If the muffler is glowing the fuel plunger is probably stuck. You have to take the fuel distributer off the mixture unit and unstick the fuel plunger.Thanks David. But looks like the ignition distributor cap shift has fixed it.

[Azar]

28 is fine at idle. I hope it goes up some when you rev it.It was slightly lower today, was 10 Deg C hotter in the workshop as well. Interestingly, when disconnected the manual pressure gauge and connected the sensor for the dash gauge, the dash gauge was showing almost zero at idle. Will investigate.

Yes it is going up when revving. Caps out at 4,5 Bar which is about 65 psi (as per manual gauge connected instead of the sensor on the passenger side). Perhaps it has the pressure release valve which is not allowing going for higher pressure?

Workshop manual says 32psi at 900 RPM and 65psi at 4000 RPM at 80 Deg C - engine is hot. I would like to see as a minimum idling at first mark in the dash gauge which is corresponding to 20 psi.

We are also running the Castrol GTX 10W-40 since it is cooler in Germany but since this is a summer - only car decided to change for the Liqui Moly 20W-50 Classic tomorrow. Will report the pressure reading.

[dn010]

Since you have good numbers on the gauge connected directly to the engine, I'd say you're doing just fine and wouldn't worry about it. 32 is for 900RPMs and idle is 775 so ~28 would be expected. Replace the oil pressure sender and your dash gauge should be better.