Private Sale Car vs. DMC Dealer Car Sale.

[jimgravina]

Hello!

This is my first post on here and happy to be a part of this community! I am in the market for a Delorean and have been researching for several months. I know every car is different, but I am on the fence on whether to try and find a private sale car that I would send to a DMC dealer to get up to snuff, or...whether I should just deal with a DMC dealer directly for everything. Im sure a lot of it is what style car I want and whats available, but is there a general consensus here?

How have you acquired your car?

Thanks alot!
Jim

[Helirich]

You need to decide if you want "concourse" or "driver". If you want concourse, I would go directly to DMC. If you want a driver, I would look for private sale. There are a lot of upgrades that you could get (and want) in a private sale and not pay extra.

I will say, the market is rather slim right now, so you might not have a lot of choice. Good luck!

[jimgravina]

Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you!

[dmcman73]

You need to decide if you want "concourse" or "driver". If you want concourse, I would go directly to DMC. If you want a driver, I would look for private sale. There are a lot of upgrades that you could get (and want) in a private sale and not pay extra.

I will say, the market is rather slim right now, so you might not have a lot of choice. Good luck!

What does concourse VS driver have to do with anything? The DMC vendors sell "driver" cars, they do not spend the cash on refurbishing cars to "concourse" condition unless a purchaser requests it.

If the OP wants a reliable driver car and he's thinking of buying one privately to send to a vendor to have reworked....they may as well just purchase one directly from a Delorean vendor.

[jimgravina]

The DMC vendors sell "driver" cars, they do not spend the cash on refurbishing cars to "concourse" condition unless a purchaser requests it.

If the OP wants a reliable driver car and he's thinking of buying one privately to send to a vendor to have reworked....they may as well just purchase one directly from a Delorean vendor.

To this point...I was under the assumption that all DMC Dealer bought cars would have a full frame-off restoration before they resell it. But you are saying I could buy a car they may have on hand and just have them do minimal work to get it drivable and only certain things I may also want done (as opposed to a full restoration?)

Thanks!
Jim

[dmcman73]

To this point...I was under the assumption that all DMC Dealer bought cars would have a full frame-off restoration before they resell it. But you are saying I could buy a car they may have on hand and just have them do minimal work to get it drivable and only certain things I may also want done (as opposed to a full restoration?)

Thanks!
Jim

Contact them, they will be more then happy to describe what service they perform on their cars prior to selling them. But I can say that at basics they will perform safety checks on the car and replace parts as needed to make sure that it is safe and reliable to drive. As far as what other items you would want done above making the car drivable, you can request what other services you want and they will do what ever you want to pay for.

[jimgravina]

Yeah, I should be speaking with Mike either today or tomorrow actually, just wanted to get some general knowledge before we talked.

[David T]

Buying from a dealer is much more convenient than buying from a private party BUT, you will pay more, have a much better idea of what you are buying, the car will be safe and drivable, and they can do all of the paperwork including financing and transportation. If you are handy and willing to get your hands dirty and have some automotive knowledge, you can save a LOT of money buying privately BUT, it is up to you to inspect the car and know it's condition and pay a fair price, fix the car, get and transport the car, do all of the paperwork and financing. Some owners enjoy working on the car, some just want something they can drive right away. It's up to you to decide how you want to buy the car.

[MrChocky]

Well, the early advice in this thread was spectacularly bad and/or nonsensical. And the word is "Concours". It's weird that DavId T has enough attention to detail to win such an award, but can't get the spelling.

Anyway, from the guy who looks at pretty much all the for sale listings, there is quite a shortage of private listings at the moment - sure, if you wait a bit your car will come along, and maybe you should. But
if you want to get a car soon, and that's likely to be sorted in the condition and specs you want, then talking to a dealer right now is gonna be the best bet, especially for the reasons already mentioned.

[jimgravina]

Yeah, that all makes sense. Obviously I WANT a car yesterday, lol but I don't NEED it now. I am just trying to prepare myself for when the right car comes along, I will know what to do about it. I am leaning more towards working with the dealer, but just to get a car safe and up and running, knowing I can do some future repairs and upgrades myself. I dont need a full frame off restoration.

One of you mentioned "financing" but I was told (at least from DMCMW) they don't offer financing. I don't PLAN on financing, but I want to keep that option on the table.

Jim

[MrChocky]

Yeah, that all makes sense. Obviously I WANT a car yesterday, lol but I don't NEED it now. I am just trying to prepare myself for when the right car comes along, I will know what to do about it. I am leaning more towards working with the dealer, but just to get a car safe and up and running, knowing I can do some future repairs and upgrades myself. I dont need a full frame off restoration.

One of you mentioned "financing" but I was told (at least from DMCMW) they don't offer financing. I don't PLAN on financing, but I want to keep that option on the table.

Jim

There are people that'll swear up and down to not finance, but plenty who have done it and wouldn't have been able to otherwise. I was lucky enough to not need in both cases. However, there's a particularly long thread here:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7862-Did-you-finance-your-Delorean

Which has some fantastic commentary on the topic.

[jimgravina]

Haha thank you, I will have to read through this.

I am lucky enough where I would be able to pay the loan off pretty rapidly and not pay much interest at all. It just a matter of maybe needing a small loan to get a car tomorrow, as opposed to waiting about 8 months when I would definitely be ready financially.

Thanks for that link!
Jim

[jimgravina]

Get the buyer's guide, that's much better than listening to this confusion.

Already read through it twice and highlighted :)

[Henrik]

Already read through it twice and highlighted :)

That's what I did!

I spotted an opportunity in Oklahoma, hopped on a plane and read the Buyer's Guide on the way there. That was back in 2005 when they were a little more readily available.

[MrChocky]

That's what I did!

I spotted an opportunity in Oklahoma, hopped on a plane and read the Buyer's Guide on the way there. That was back in 2005 when they were a little more readily available.

Nice! Of course, things have changed a lot since. Whilst the guide is obviously excellent, I think it's better to characterize it as a "VIN inventory" with some other stuff. A comprehensive
buyer's guide could easily be 3 times as long. I think anyone here could easily come up with a long list of things to check on a given car that are not mentioned in it, as well as where
to find them, etc.

DMCTalk is increasingly, not the the place to find cars - yes, there are occasional listings, but there's 100 or so public listings per year on numerous websites, as well as (I estimate) another
100 private sales, including those from dealers, word of mouth, etc. In particular, many sales seem to happen with local club hookups - simply putting the word out to local
owners is a great way to get a car (it's how I got my first one), and in many cases the history of the car will be well known by other owners, plus you can easily go look at it.

[jimgravina]

I have been lucky enough in the past month or so to meet and engage with a few local Delorean owners that have been a huge help in getting me started in this process. It's nice to have a community that is so helpful, especially to "outsiders" who don't hae a car yet. I'm mainly interested in a black interior automatic with a grooved (no gas flap) hood. All of the other little differences I can work around. But per my original post, i was just trying to see if its something I should sit on and wait until a dealer gets that car, or grab it while I can no matter where its from, and just have them get it safe and drivable.

[dmcman73]

I have been lucky enough in the past month or so to meet and engage with a few local Delorean owners that have been a huge help in getting me started in this process. It's nice to have a community that is so helpful, especially to "outsiders" who don't hae a car yet. I'm mainly interested in a black interior automatic with a grooved (no gas flap) hood. All of the other little differences I can work around. But per my original post, i was just trying to see if its something I should sit on and wait until a dealer gets that car, or grab it while I can no matter where its from, and just have them get it safe and drivable.

- How mechanically inclined are you? Can you handle repairs on your own?
- How far are you from the nearest delorean dealer?

If you come across a car that is being sold privately for a good price and you can handle some of the repairs on your own (no matter how small), then go for it and don't wait. Engine work, brakes, suspensions, etc can always be worked on by any competent mechanic.

[jimgravina]

Yeah, I definitely have enough capabilities to do alot myself. Im not in the position to drop the engine out for example, but in all the smaller repair videos I have seen, I feel confident I can do alot of work myself. If I did get a private sale I would send it over to DMC to definitely do the euro spec suspension, redo the fuel system, and possibly throw on their stage 1 exhaust. And as long as its safe and running, I am prepared to handle any future repairs or upgrades myself short of hoisting out my engine or taking the body off of the frame.

[MrChocky]

I have been lucky enough in the past month or so to meet and engage with a few local Delorean owners that have been a huge help in getting me started in this process. It's nice to have a community that is so helpful, especially to "outsiders" who don't hae a car yet. I'm mainly interested in a black interior automatic with a grooved (no gas flap) hood. All of the other little differences I can work around. But per my original post, i was just trying to see if its something I should sit on and wait until a dealer gets that car, or grab it while I can no matter where its from, and just have them get it safe and drivable.

As it happens, that's exactly the car I'm restoring now. But realistically, it's going to be months yet until it's ready and likely you'll find a car well before then, but you never know.

[jimgravina]

As it happens, that's exactly the car I'm restoring now. But realistically, it's going to be months yet until it's ready and likely you'll find a car well before then, but you never know.

Keep me in mind, i'm not too far from you in Virginia :)

[Ron]

Before the posts with no help outnumber the others:

Concourse V. Concours V. Word Choice V. Spelling V. Helping OP V. OT BS moved HERE (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?19056-Concourse-V-Concours-V-Word-Choice-V-Spelling-V-Helping-V-OT-BS).

[MrChocky]

Phew, well back on topic.

I just learned (and probably well known to many), that DMC offers a 6 month/6000 mile warranty on their cars. That's exceptionally generous for any used car (which of course, all
DeLorean sales are) anywhere. I don't know about the other dealers.

On the private sale side, it seems like cars are starting to appear again now that we're into fall. This site will find you 90% of listings:

https://cultcars.us/cgi-bin/listings.cgi?q=delorean&loc=

For the rest, you better be scouring Facebook and other auction sites, but my earlier advice on talking to local owners is important.

Pricewise, I think we've peaked for the year, with a Time Machine selling for 176K(!) and a rough manual selling for 44K, with some easing of prices - at least until next year.

[WHO1DMC]

You can take it for what it is worth. When Stephen Wynne was at the DCS B. Bash he was saying that he thinks in 10 years we could be seeing Deloreans going for a 100k. I was thinking a big wow but we just have to wait and see.


Dave B.

[MrChocky]

You can take it for what it is worth. When Stephen Wynne was at the DCS B. Bash he was saying that he thinks in 10 years we could be seeing Deloreans going for a 100k. I was thinking a big wow but we just have to wait and see.


Dave B.

Yeah. Well, I already see people asking 80K for cars. Whether they will sell for that is another matter. *However* historically it's rare for marques to appreciate for long periods of time - history is simply against this idea. You'll always be better off in the
stock market over a 10 year period. Of course, usually any speculation about the future by anyone will prove to be wildly wrong.

[Helirich]

You can take it for what it is worth. When Stephen Wynne was at the DCS B. Bash he was saying that he thinks in 10 years we could be seeing Deloreans going for a 100k. I was thinking a big wow but we just have to wait and see.


Dave B.

This could be true, (and more) but probably only because dollar goes down in value.

[jimgravina]

I just learned (and probably well known to many), that DMC offers a 6 month/6000 mile warranty on their cars. That's exceptionally generous for any used car (which of course, all
DeLorean sales are) anywhere. I don't know about the other dealers.



I heard that as well but is that with ANY Parts/Service they do? Or only if they do a complete frame-off restoration. Ideally, I am hoping to hold out for a Dealer car (just spoke with Mike over at DMCMW yesterday). But if that perfect care comes along elsewhere, I would jump on it.

[cdrusn]

As I'm sure you know, a dealer has a lot of overhead including profit that has to be worked into the price of their cars. Individuals will know a lot more about their
specific car's and what they have personally done to it and information about the history of the car the dealer can't possibly know. As far as prices having to come down, I don't think we are even close to that point yet. If you watch the Jay Leno garage series he has a segment that has 3 cars and which one has increased the most in the last 5 years. It is incredible how some have shot up. As far as the stock market goes there is no comparison with a car but when the government is spending Trillions $ and raising capital gains to 42% I think the Delorean is maybe a better investment. Buy 2. :race:

[MrChocky]

As I'm sure you know, a dealer has a lot of overhead including profit that has to be worked into the price of their cars. Individuals will know a lot more about their
specific car's and what they have personally done to it and information about the history of the car the dealer can't possibly know.


Well, I'd debate that. Yes,it's often true that an owner will have very extensive knowledge of a car *especially* if they've done a restoration, but it's also common that they do not - e.g, owners who've
lost interest and had their work done by someone else. I've seen plenty of examples either way.



As far as prices having to come down, I don't think we are even close to that point yet. If you watch the Jay Leno garage series he has a segment that has 3 cars and which one has increased the most in the last 5 years. It is incredible how some have shot up.


I'm not entirely sure who or what you're referencing with this. What I did say is that I think prices have peaked for the year, and we might see some easing. This is quite different from "prices have to come down". I fully expect more increases next year.



As far as the stock market goes there is no comparison with a car but when the government is spending Trillions $ and raising capital gains to 42% I think the Delorean is maybe a better investment. Buy 2. :race:


History is not with you on this. DeLorean or any marque vs inflation is a poor bet (never mind, cost of ownership) - there's of course singular examples that stand out, but not as a whole. There's some analysis of this topic here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwYh-MEt5x8&t=1s

[cdrusn]

You're obviously the only expert on this subject so I defer to your incredible knowledge. :race:

[David T]

With all of the recent storms you must be cautious buying a car, it could have been flooded.

[pete]

As it happens, that's exactly the car I'm restoring now. But realistically, it's going to be months yet until it's ready and likely you'll find a car well before then, but you never know.
Keep me in mind too. After vacillating for years I've finally decided to begin the journey to ownership. I just joined this group a few days ago and have been reading posts furiously to gain knowledge.

I'd love a private sale from someone in the forum that's looking to sell (because it seems that the group knows everything about every car mentioned here and the guys selling them), but those don't seem to come along often. I can work on a car, I've owned a 72 RHD Mini and a 69 Austin-Healey Sprite so I'm no stranger to fixing things myself. I absolutely do NOT expect to have a car that I never have to tinker with, and I'm fine doing general recommended maintenance, but at this point in my life I'm really looking to drive and enjoy the car without having to tear it apart and restore it out of a barn.

I live in Western NY so I probably wouldn't even want a car to show up until the spring when I can actually drive it. I'd hate to have a car delivered and then stare at it for 6 months, while I drool, waiting for snow to melt.

So if going with DMC I guess I have to see what they have in the works and all that.

[MrChocky]

Keep me in mind too. After vacillating for years I've finally decided to begin the journey to ownership. I just joined this group a few days ago and have been reading posts furiously to gain knowledge.

I'd love a private sale from someone in the forum that's looking to sell (because it seems that the group knows everything about every car mentioned here and the guys selling them), but those don't seem to come along often. I can work on a car, I've owned a 72 RHD Mini and a 69 Austin-Healey Sprite so I'm no stranger to fixing things myself. I absolutely do NOT expect to have a car that I never have to tinker with, and I'm fine doing general recommended maintenance, but at this point in my life I'm really looking to drive and enjoy the car without having to tear it apart and restore it out of a barn.

I live in Western NY so I probably wouldn't even want a car to show up until the spring when I can actually drive it. I'd hate to have a car delivered and then stare at it for 6 months, while I drool, waiting for snow to melt.

So if going with DMC I guess I have to see what they have in the works and all that.

I will keep you in mind, but chances are our stars aren't going to align (which is fine). I suspect you already have an excellent idea of the car you want, and will be looking at ads all winter.

My suggestion is that when you are good and ready, post a wanted ad with exactly what you're after here (although your audience on Facebook will be much larger). And in the meantime, try and go
see some cars, even if (and perhaps, especially if), they aren't what you're after.

[WNY1983]

Hey Pete,
There are about 8 DMC owners in WNY. We have a WNY owners group that meet regularly.
Feel free to contact myself if you have a question or concern. [email protected]



#15297

[Toph]

I’m in the exact same boat. I’m in Arizona and have been researching DeLoreans for 10+ years. Just now in a position to buy one. I’d love to buy a solid private sale, save the sales tax, and have a clean driving car to do moderate work on. But it seems the more I research, the more likely it is I’ll end up at a DMC dealer and pay a premium for my car.

[MrChocky]

I’m in the exact same boat. I’m in Arizona and have been researching DeLoreans for 10+ years. Just now in a position to buy one. I’d love to buy a solid private sale, save the sales tax, and have a clean driving car to do moderate work on. But it seems the more I research, the more likely it is I’ll end up at a DMC dealer and pay a premium for my car.

I don't understand the tax statement. Does AZ have different sales tax rules to most other states? You're gonna be paying the tax one way or another.

As for private sales, there's simply not many at this moment - there were a couple of weeks ago, and then they mostly got sold (again). There's one ending today on BaT though:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1981-delorean-dmc-12-61/

In any case, trying to save money on a DeLorean purchase is often a trap.

[David T]

I can't say how AZ handles sales tax but in most States you pay the sales tax on the amount that is on the Bill of Sale or the Title when you register for plates. The only way out is to understate the amount you paid for it but you WILL pay sales tax. One way to understate the amount is if you got a bunch of other stuff along with the car. You could make the claim that the car was part of the total sale and the amount you paid for it also included a lot of other stuff like floor mats, spare parts, a cover, etc. Expect to do at least "some" work even on an immaculate, clean car. Include that in your budget not only the cost of the car but what it will take to transport it, insure it, Title & register it. It also needs a place to stay and you may have to buy some tools to take care of it depending on your skill level and how much you are willing to do on it.

[outatym2001]

How have you acquired your car?
Jim to answer your question I bought my 1981 DeLorean from a local member of the Pacific Northwest DeLorean Club (PNDC) who was moving to Hawaii with his wife and didn’t want to take the DeLorean with them. This purchase happened way back in February 2001.
Back then I would have never bought an already 20-year-old DeLorean unless I knew there was a great community of members locally to help source parts and get service done locally.
Mind you I paid $12,000 that is including Washington State sales tax for the D but it needed a lot of help. This was the wintertime and any moisture inside the D was frozen because the D was stored outside under fabric car cover.
The odometer read 48,000 miles but I wasn’t quite sure that was correct.
I was buying the D from the second owner who bought it from a guy in California.
I got no maintenance records for the life of the D.
The powder coating on the aluminum alloy wheels was peeling off. The front and rear fascia paint was peeling off in certain areas exposing paint under that paint. The air-conditioning didn’t work. The engine had a bad ticking noise from one of the cam lobes not getting proper oil lubrication. Most of the rubber hoses appeared original. Nothing on the D had been updated or upgraded. And there was a vertical crack in the windshield because someone had glued the rear view mirror directly onto the glass.
I paid to have a Pre Purchase Inspection PPI done and was advised against buying it but the owner was a local club member and in a hurry to sell and $12,000 didn’t seem like a lot of money to finally own a DeLorean.
Now it’s 21 years later and I still own the D. And I can’t see myself ever getting rid of it.
When using an online inflation calculator that $12,000 back then is now considered to be $18,843.93.
My suggestion if you buy a DeLorean from a DMC parts vendor then you can’t go wrong. But, if you buy from a used car dealer I would pay someone somewhere to do a PPI.

[TheStoot]

In Massachusetts, the sales tax is determined by book value of the car, whether its NADA guide for older vehicles or KBB for newer. Bill of sale is not used for sales tax unless it is at a higher amount than the book value. The higher value of the 2 is always used, not the lower. The only way around that here is to have an LLC in montana, register the car there and u then have no sales tax OR inspection. That's why you will see a lot of expensive foreign cars with montana plates, the owner was cheap (or smart) and bypassed the system this way. I refuse to do that because I like to be honest and whenevr I see a car with those plates, I immediately know why and they lose all respect I got for em'

[artisticent]

I have been lucky enough in the past month or so to meet and engage with a few local Delorean owners that have been a huge help in getting me started in this process. It's nice to have a community that is so helpful, especially to "outsiders" who don't hae a car yet. I'm mainly interested in a black interior automatic with a grooved (no gas flap) hood. All of the other little differences I can work around. But per my original post, i was just trying to see if its something I should sit on and wait until a dealer gets that car, or grab it while I can no matter where its from, and just have them get it safe and drivable.

I may be letting my go to make way for other builds I have. Im 50/50 at the moment but ill keep in touch..

67999680006800168002680036800468005

[Timeless]

With all of the recent storms you must be cautious buying a car, it could have been flooded.
:rolleyes1:

[David T]

That is still sound advice. If you have a PPI done, hopefully that will be uncovered. If the car was flooded and an insurance claim made, it is supposed to have a Salvage Title. Not all States issue Salvage Titles though. A good PPI will also tell you if the car was in an accident and repaired and how well it was repaired. If you buy a car from a Dealer he is supposed to tell you all of this but they can claim they didn't know and weren't told so you must do your own inspection. A private party is not held to the same standards as a dealer so don't expect them to tell you anything bad about the car. Buyer Beware.