Single Wideband O2 for AFR and narrow band output

[dmcman73]

Instead of welding a second O2 bung into my DPI exhaust, I found this module that will allow the use of a single wide band O2 sensor and split the wideband connections for the AFR gauge (0-5V) and a single wire narrow band connection (0-1V) and they can be used at the same time. Has anyone used something like this?

https://www.plxdevices.com/Wideband-O2-Air-Fuel-Ratio-Sensor-Module-p/897346002726.htm

This is the manual for the device: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S79VSwt4LsVELBgBW-aCW3dJ9PFssLkT/view

[Jason]

Doesn't the DPI exhaust come with two fittings for O2 sensors? I have separate wide and narrow band sensors in mine and didn't have to weld anything.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I ran a wideband that one output was configured to drive our stock lambda ECU (0 to 1 volt) and the second output could be set up to drive what you wanted (gauge, second narrow band, etc.).

[Delorean Industries]

We had complaints about the second bung on passenger header and opted to delete it. We can add a product option for those who want this moving forward as owners embrace added tech. Cheaper route would be for you to send us passenger header for a bung to be added. Just cover the shipping at cost.

[dmcman73]

Doesn't the DPI exhaust come with two fittings for O2 sensors? I have separate wide and narrow band sensors in mine and didn't have to weld anything.

They deleted the second bung on their newest generation but can add it by request.

[dmcman73]

I ran a wideband that one output was configured to drive our stock lambda ECU (0 to 1 volt) and the second output could be set up to drive what you wanted (gauge, second narrow band, etc.).

I mainly just want to run the wide band to set my mixture with the AFR. Which setup did you have on your car and did you just install it to set your AFR and then remove it after as well?

[Bitsyncmaster]

I mainly just want to run the wide band to set my mixture with the AFR. Which setup did you have on your car and did you just install it to set your AFR and then remove it after as well?

I used the older Innovate LC1 wideband. I installed it to switch the AFR from normal to a more rich value with a switch. I had removed it thinking an engine skip was the wideband but that was not the problem. I wish I left it installed because going back to narrow band got the engine hunt during warmup. I had no engine hunt with the wideband.

[dmcman73]

I used the older Innovate LC1 wideband. I installed it to switch the AFR from normal to a more rich value with a switch. I had removed it thinking an engine skip was the wideband but that was not the problem. I wish I left it installed because going back to narrow band got the engine hunt during warmup. I had no engine hunt with the wideband.

I actually have the LC2, just picked one up off eBay. It has programmable analog outputs for a narrow band output on the box the LCD screen is on like this 67109

I assume you had an LC1 with a dedicated controller box like this to keep it connected permanently? 67110

[FABombjoy]

Normally it takes a minute or two for the stock O2 sensor to come online. Any WB controller will come online much more quickly which can cause a slightly leaner warm-up / cold start. I have the LC2, previously LC1. Would probably try a Spartan controller these days rather than Innovate.

[dmcman73]

Normally it takes a minute or two for the stock O2 sensor to come online. Any WB controller will come online much more quickly which can cause a slightly leaner warm-up / cold start. I have the LC2, previously LC1. Would probably try a Spartan controller these days rather than Innovate.

I'm looking to set it up on a temporary basis just to dial in the AFR under load while driving. I'll probably setup the LC2 kit I have (it's the portable version not the permanent install one) just to adjust the AFR and then swap back in the narrow band. Do you find it working better when permanently installed?

[FABombjoy]

Do you find it working better when permanently installed?
Personally I've only had them permanently installed, with the 0-1v output connected to the lambda box. I was also datalogging RPM, MAP, and the frequency valve duty cycle via an Innovate LMA-3 and could see how the fast warmup caused the lambda ecu to push the system lean, working against the control pressure regulators warm-up cycle. Within about 60 seconds, when a 1-wire narrowband sensor would normally start to wake up, everything is more or less as it should be.

By default the 2nd analog output mimics a 1v sensor and its sharp voltage switch at 14.7:1. I never did get around to trying a different, more gradual curve to see if the widely swinging duty cycle range could be slowed down & give a more stable idle. Something to consider if you're looking for an experiment :)

[dmcman73]

Personally I've only had them permanently installed, with the 0-1v output connected to the lambda box. I was also datalogging RPM, MAP, and the frequency valve duty cycle via an Innovate LMA-3 and could see how the fast warmup caused the lambda ecu to push the system lean, working against the control pressure regulators warm-up cycle. Within about 60 seconds, when a 1-wire narrowband sensor would normally start to wake up, everything is more or less as it should be.

By default the 2nd analog output mimics a 1v sensor and its sharp voltage switch at 14.7:1. I never did get around to trying a different, more gradual curve to see if the widely swinging duty cycle range could be slowed down & give a more stable idle. Something to consider if you're looking for an experiment :)

I was actually looking at the SSI-4, which I think is the newer model of the LMA-3? Now I want to experiment.....

Thanks for the info!

[Bitsyncmaster]

If you have no CATs, just use the LC2 with a tail pipe clamp which would save you swapping back to narrow band.

Yes the wideband would go closed loop in 15 seconds but I did not find that to be a problem.

I also have an LC2 but don't use it anymore either.

You want to set the wideband for the fastest response. A slower response will make the idle hunt. I tried it.

[FABombjoy]

I was actually looking at the SSI-4, which I think is the newer model of the LMA-3? Now I want to experiment.....
I'm not sure offhand, but I can say that all of the Innovate software is very unstable and leave much to be desired. If I pull up some of my old datalogs the software will crash in short order.

One thing you could consider if you're really adventurous is, rather than capture data with an SSI4 or LMA3, is to install a Megasquirt or Microsquirt as a passive data collection instrument. The price would be a little higher, but it would buy you a much more actively supported software base as well as some opportunity at programmable control of things like fans and the fuel pump. Then if you get the itch down the road you'd be mostly ready for either FrankenCIS or full EFI conversion.

[dmcman73]

I'm not sure offhand, but I can say that all of the Innovate software is very unstable and leave much to be desired. If I pull up some of my old datalogs the software will crash in short order.

One thing you could consider if you're really adventurous is, rather than capture data with an SSI4 or LMA3, is to install a Megasquirt or Microsquirt as a passive data collection instrument. The price would be a little higher, but it would buy you a much more actively supported software base as well as some opportunity at programmable control of things like fans and the fuel pump. Then if you get the itch down the road you'd be mostly ready for either FrankenCIS or full EFI conversion.

I assume that the Spartan controllers you mentioned are much more stable?

[FABombjoy]

I assume that the Spartan controllers you mentioned are much more stable?
They seem to be preferred by the Megasquirt crowd. I had an LC-1 fail for no good reason. The LC-2 seems to be fine, no issues yet, but the software is weird and doesn't always seem to work correctly. Like it will take a few times pushing the buttons to get the values to take. It's picky about USB->serial adapters too, although thats unrelated to the software issues.

I might eventually replace it with a CANbus enabled controller for better accuracy but it is installed and has been working since 2016.