Hot vapor engine Delorean?

[TTait]

Have been looking at the Pogue carburetor concept for fun recently, the "200mpg" engine of the '70's that used a pre-heater for gasoline to vaporize it to a gas, and allowing 02 to bond with it before allowing it to enter the cylinder. The idea is that you get 100% combustion efficiency, better power and emissions. Certainly during WW2 Gasoline engines were converted to run on wood gas and coal gas vapors...

There are a number of youtube videos out there of various attempts, perhaps successful, to get engines to run in this manner, and they are interesting enough in their own right, but this one is of particular interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNLpHGy3fVw

Its not the best video, as the host simply shows a number of old engines and doesn't actually run any of them. He does however mention one of these engines, perhaps a 3 cylinder conversion of a Buick engine, was at one time installed into a Delorean. Over 15 years on these forums and its the first I have ever heard about that... Someone must have seen this thing and be able to give a report or two about how well it worked, or didn't. To be honest, if anyone could get something like this to work - it would probably be a Delorean owner. Hey Bill, you still out there?

Here is a more generic video where someone SEEMS to get this concept to work. So... enlighten me?

[DMC-Ron]

Have been looking at the Pogue carburetor concept for fun recently, the "200mpg" engine of the '70's that used a pre-heater for gasoline to vaporize it to a gas, and allowing 02 to bond with it before allowing it to enter the cylinder. The idea is that you get 100% combustion efficiency, better power and emissions. Certainly during WW2 Gasoline engines were converted to run on wood gas and coal gas vapors...

There are a number of youtube videos out there of various attempts, perhaps successful, to get engines to run in this manner, and they are interesting enough in their own right, but this one is of particular interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNLpHGy3fVw

Its not the best video, as the host simply shows a number of old engines and doesn't actually run any of them. He does however mention one of these engines, perhaps a 3 cylinder conversion of a Buick engine, was at one time installed into a Delorean. Over 15 years on these forums and its the first I have ever heard about that... Someone must have seen this thing and be able to give a report or two about how well it worked, or didn't. To be honest, if anyone could get something like this to work - it would probably be a Delorean owner. Hey Bill, you still out there?

Here is a more generic video where someone SEEMS to get this concept to work. So... enlighten me?

This seems like smoke and mirrors. How some "homoginizer" could get a fuel to bond with O2 at the molecular level is just a stretch. Additionally, when you redirect all the internal heat back into the engine you have a runaway thermal cascade. If someone could get this to work, they would have have.

Ron

[Dickey]

I haven't laid hands on a Smoky Yunick hot vapor engine though from everything I've read/seen of it and of the man, I expect it is another magic trick. Smoky was a master illusionist and that won him a lot of races until people figured out whatever the latest gimmick was and he had to come up with another illusion. Current gasoline engines are already over 99 percent with respect to their combustion efficiency for converting fuel to heat.

About a third of that heat is used to create torque on a crankshaft, another significant chunk is absorbed by the oil in the crankcase and the rest is passed off to the atmosphere via a coolant system. Almost zero unburned fuel makes its way to the exhaust on a modern car.


Wood and coal gasifier systems are something else entirely and have been around over 100 years for tractors and other equipment with low output specifications. Traditionally, they peak in popularity in populous areas where and when long term kinetic events take place that remove easy access to petroleum based fuels. In the last 20 years they have seen a resurgence in attention to an extent that they can provide enough horsepower to move a normal pickup truck at 70mph. A friend of mine built such a system into an old Dodge Dakota truck and aside from looking like a mobile still, it behaved like a normal truck after the wood gas system heated up enough to warrant switching over from the factory gasoline setup. The BTUs required to move such a vehicle are the same regardless of the fuel source and the aforementioned division of heat labor still applies.

[mhanch]

Current gasoline engines are already over 99 percent with respect to their combustion efficiency for converting fuel to heat.


This is actually 20-30%. ICE engines are really, really inefficient by any standard.


https://www.brighthubengineering.com/machine-design/90240-making-more-efficient-combustion-engines/#:~:text=Simply%20put%20efficiency%20is%20Output%2 FInput.%20The%20average%20ICE,between%2020%20to%20 30%25%2C%20which%20is%20very%20low.

[Dickey]

I think there may be some confusion on thermal efficiency versus combustion efficiency. I was only speaking to the amount of fuel that is converted to heat within a modern ICE platform. Most of that heat is not used for motive force and is conducted through coolant and lubrication systems for typical production engines as found in a car. About a third of that heat is used for motive force as described in your link.

[mhanch]

Ah - makes sense. Thansk!

[TTait]

Thermal management as presented is BS. If the goal at an given time is to raise the temperature of a few ounces of gasoline to perhaps 190 degrees, that can obviously be done with ease with the waste heat from the engine, we can quickly and easily raise the temperature of several gallons of coolant beyond that temperature. There is no reason to believe that the engine could be run as a closed loop thermally, that's obviously a lie.

As to the suggestion that you would get more complete and even burning of the fuel if it is in a vapor form, I totally buy that. I question the gain you get however, compared to a fine mist from a proper fuel injector. Certainly it would be an improvement over a carb. I suspect the reality is that there is something there, but it's a negligible gain compared to the potential concerns from the vapor system.

I find it interesting that in the video of the guy with the truck, he keeps the air cleaner intact and never shows you the carb - which likely has the fuel line still attached. He's cutting off the air supply probably, not the air/fuel. If you wanted to do a serious video you'd have the engine stripped back to nothing and let everyone see the throttle assembly and remnants of the carb.

I'm curious if anyone knows anything about the attempt to put one of these engines in a Delorean. Again, it sounds like smoke and mirrors - get the audience to look at the shiny car that they aren't very familiar with rather than the meat of the issue. Did someone buy a Delorean with a steampunk intake rigged up to it at some point? Were the heads melted because they tried to bypass the radiator? I'd love to hear that part of the story if its out there...

[Patrick C]

The last I heard, the Smokey Yunick Hot Vapor Engine DeLorean is now owned by a car dealership in Florida. Photo below was found online from the DMCH Open House in 2007.

http://www.deloreanmotorcity.com/images/photogallery/DMC%20Houston%202007/Hot%20gas.jpg

[ssdelorean]

Were the heads melted because they tried to bypass the radiator? I'd love to hear that part of the story if its out there...

There was that one purple DeLorean with the carbon fiber splash wrapped hood & lexan windows where the kid removed the radiator because he said "you do not need it for 3am street racing". I don't think that worked out for him. If I recall he sold and someone else was working on fixing all the mods.

[Nicholas R]

There was that one purple DeLorean with the carbon fiber splash wrapped hood & lexan windows where the kid removed the radiator because he said "you do not need it for 3am street racing". I don't think that worked out for him. If I recall he sold and someone else was working on fixing all the mods.

Oh man, talk about a blast from the past. This is why I wish the old .com archives still existed. That thread was fantastic. It was dubbed the Fast and the Furious DeLorean right? It had a green and black wrap on it right? The post about removing the radiator to save weight was pure gold.

[TTait]

I believe the correct statement is that you actually do not need the entire Delorean for street racing.

[Josh]

Oh man, talk about a blast from the past. This is why I wish the old .com archives still existed. That thread was fantastic. It was dubbed the Fast and the Furious DeLorean right? It had a green and black wrap on it right? The post about removing the radiator to save weight was pure gold.

This was before my time and I feel like I am missing out on a lot. (dmctalk.com)

[ssdelorean]

Oh man, talk about a blast from the past. This is why I wish the old .com archives still existed. That thread was fantastic. It was dubbed the Fast and the Furious DeLorean right? It had a green and black wrap on it right? The post about removing the radiator to save weight was pure gold.

YES! "Fast and the Furious DeLorean" was it's DMCTalk name :) So many good things on the .com site.

--Squirrel--
Someone should start a thread that just posts memories from all the stories and characters from that era. e.g. like Barefoot Walt, where is he now? Sonny V? Twin Engine DMC, etc.....

[CFI]

Over 15 years on these forums and its the first I have ever heard about that...

It’s mentioned in several DeLorean books.

[Rich W]

Oh man, talk about a blast from the past. This is why I wish the old .com archives still existed. That thread was fantastic. It was dubbed the Fast and the Furious DeLorean right? It had a green and black wrap on it right? The post about removing the radiator to save weight was pure gold.

IIRC, it was a bit more ridiculous idea of weight savings. I believe the radiator cooling fans and shroud were removed
for “weight savings”, but the radiator was still in place, to provide enough cooling when driving to and from night races
and shutting the car off whenever it was just idling, so there was less chance of overheating.

The Fast and Furious DeLorean is certainly in the Top 10 List of Worst Functional Mods by a Previous Owner.

Maybe I will try searching through the Wayback Machine website for more info, if I have time this weekend.

[Josh]

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?833-The-Infamous-Fast-and-Furious-DeLorean-photos-from-December-2002

[AugustneverEnds]

I think JZD had an interest in Yunick's hot air engine, some company called Adiabatic Corporation. Shockingly it never took off.