Car wont shift into gear when cold

[Trstno1]

Hey guys -

So, usually my D stays in the garage all winter due to the harsh weather here in AK. However, I recently needed the garage space to work on my daily driver. so I pulled the D outside and threw on a car cover. I had left it outside in the driveway for about 7 hours in -5/F. weather. When I went to go bring it back in, it started, but be darned if I couldn't get it into reverse. I have a manual transmission. I double clutched it and it still wouldn't go into reverse. It just wanted to grind gears. I barely got it to go into 1st gear to go forward. Understandably, the gear oil must have been nearly frozen, but the clutch fluid shouldn't have been....

Eventually I decided to put it in neutral just to manually push it back far enough in the driveway so that I could put it in 1st gear and drive it back into the garage. I left it overnight to let it warm up, and now all clutch works with all gears no problem. Is this a known Delorean issue? If I didnt know any better it almost seemed like the valves in the clutch master shrunk in the cold and was allowing fluid past it when actuating the clutch. I would think maybe I had a clutch master going out, maybe it just needs replaced, but the one in the car is new and only has a couple hundred miles on it.

Any suggestions? Does anyone else have a problem leaving there manual Delorean out in the cold for too long?

Thanks in advance.

[Michael]

Did you try pumping the clutch before shifting?

I'm not versed at all on DeLorean manual gearboxes but isn't there a new and improved metal clutch line that many people use because the oe line either swells and/or leaks?

[Trstno1]

Did you try pumping the clutch before shifting?

I'm not versed at all on DeLorean manual gearboxes but isn't there a new and improved metal clutch line that many people use because the oe line either swells and/or leaks?

Yup, I double clutched, and have the improved clutch line installed. It definitely took me by surprise.

[David T]

What happened was even with the clutch disengaged (clutch pedal to the floor) you still had a lot of drag from the pilot bearing spinning the input shaft. It was so cold that the bearing was stiff and did not allow the input shaft to stop from being turned by the flywheel. The "fix" would be to lube the pilot bearing with grease that would not get so stiff even in extreme cold. What might have also worked was to put the car into gear with the engine off and start the car with the clutch pedal to the floor and your foot on the brake so the car won't move. That would force the pilot bearing to turn and warm up so you could shift.

[Bitsyncmaster]

My guess is your clutch fluid has some water in it. When was the last time you changed the fluid.

[Ron]

It could be the slave, if it isn't new too... But, I'm with David on starting it in gear while the clutch pedal is down.

[M@rty]

My guess is your clutch fluid has some water in it. When was the last time you changed the fluid.

I,m with you mate... brake fluid and clutch fluid is supposed to be flushed every 2 years on any car although nobody does that.


Through time fluids will age and deteriorate and moisture will also end up in there.

Manual gearbox oil should also probably be changed out every 5 years too although not many people seem to do that either.

With advances in oils and fluids its a good time to refresh anyway...

[David T]

If there was water in the clutch fluid it would have frozen preventing you from disengaging the clutch at all at that temperature. This also has nothing to do with the oil in the transmission since the OP says it works fine when it is warmer. That being said, I would flush the brake and clutch fluid anyway, especially if it hasn't been done in the past 2 years. Same for the transmission oil if it hasn't been done in a long time. I would also make sure the anti-freeze is still fresh and good enough to protect at those extreme temperatures. That's DAMM COLD! Cold enough to freeze a battery that isn't fully charged.

[Trstno1]

What happened was even with the clutch disengaged (clutch pedal to the floor) you still had a lot of drag from the pilot bearing spinning the input shaft. It was so cold that the bearing was stiff and did not allow the input shaft to stop from being turned by the flywheel. The "fix" would be to lube the pilot bearing with grease that would not get so stiff even in extreme cold. What might have also worked was to put the car into gear with the engine off and start the car with the clutch pedal to the floor and your foot on the brake so the car won't move. That would force the pilot bearing to turn and warm up so you could shift.

Interesting thought…

[Trstno1]

My guess is your clutch fluid has some water in it. When was the last time you changed the fluid.

Fluid was new about a year ago…

[Trstno1]

It could be the slave, if it isn't new too... But, I'm with David on starting it in gear while the clutch pedal is down.

Might be the slave I suppose. It was a rebuilt unit by PJ Grady about 2 years ago.

[Josh]

I would change the dot4 in the clutch circuit and use a good quality synthetic gearoil in the transaxle. But any manual transmission will be hard shifting in sub zero temps (-20C) I know my daily's do. It takes some driving to get them shifting proper.

I would not worry about it too much unless you plan to winter daily drive the car.

[TheStoot]

I'm with Josh on this one. I got a new slave and master, new clutch fluid and new gear oil in the transmission and Mine is hard to shift when it gets down in the single digits +. I would say what you experienced was somewhat normal for these cars. The only thing i haven't changed out on mine is the manual transmission shift gear change bushings. Has anyone changed theirs out? is it difficult? Delorean go sells the kit that has all the new bolts and nuts and bushings and sleeves. I was thinking of doing it to maybe make my gear shifter a bit smoother.

[dmcman73]

I'm with Josh on this one. I got a new slave and master, new clutch fluid and new gear oil in the transmission and Mine is hard to shift when it gets down in the single digits +. I would say what you experienced was somewhat normal for these cars. The only thing i haven't changed out on mine is the manual transmission shift gear change bushings. Has anyone changed theirs out? is it difficult? Delorean go sells the kit that has all the new bolts and nuts and bushings and sleeves. I was thinking of doing it to maybe make my gear shifter a bit smoother.

It's not too difficult, the one that's just a little tricky is the one inside the channel of the frame, the bell crank. The bell crank shoulder bolt not only has a nut on it (at least it should) but it's also threaded into the frame. Remove the nut first and then unthread the shoulder bolt from the frame. When you install it, make sure you use a new nut if it is a nyloc nut.

[MacStainless]

Reviving this old thread because I'm in a similar situation: My car will not shift at all when it's cold. If I let it sit and also pump the clutch a bit, then the car is good to go. I've been looking for a video or walkthrough on how to change the clutch fluid on the car, but can't find anything. I also can't find a walkthrough on what it takes to replace the clutch lines + master + slave. I believe one is in the engine bay and a PITA to work on. Also, I just have ramps, no lift, so I'm not even sure how doable any of this is. Any pointers to where I could find more info would be great. Thanks.

[David T]

Reviving this old thread because I'm in a similar situation: My car will not shift at all when it's cold. If I let it sit and also pump the clutch a bit, then the car is good to go. I've been looking for a video or walkthrough on how to change the clutch fluid on the car, but can't find anything. I also can't find a walkthrough on what it takes to replace the clutch lines + master + slave. I believe one is in the engine bay and a PITA to work on. Also, I just have ramps, no lift, so I'm not even sure how doable any of this is. Any pointers to where I could find more info would be great. Thanks.

Changing the fluid in the clutch system is done the same way you would flush and bleed the brakes. Remove all of the fluid you can out of the reservoir, fill with fresh fluid (DOT 4), bleed the old stuff out at the slave cylinder bleeder. If both the master and slave cylinders are not leaking they do not need to be changed BUT if you have the original red hose between them you should replace that with a S/S hose. Drain and refill the transmission with fresh gear oil. Remove the level plug FIRST! if you can't get the level plug out don't drain the oil! You may need to adjust and lubricate the gearshift linkage and/or replace worn rubber bushings. Check the motor mounts, a cracked motor/trans mount can make it hard to shift. You are not far from PJ Grady, maybe take the car to him? Also a very worn clutch would make shifting hard. It may be time to replace the clutch. It can also be the pilot bearing needs lubrication but to get to it you have to take the clutch out.

[MacStainless]

Changing the fluid in the clutch system is done the same way you would flush and bleed the brakes. Remove all of the fluid you can out of the reservoir, fill with fresh fluid (DOT 4), bleed the old stuff out at the slave cylinder bleeder. If both the master and slave cylinders are not leaking they do not need to be changed BUT if you have the original red hose between them you should replace that with a S/S hose. Drain and refill the transmission with fresh gear oil. Remove the level plug FIRST! if you can't get the level plug out don't drain the oil! You may need to adjust and lubricate the gearshift linkage and/or replace worn rubber bushings. Check the motor mounts, a cracked motor/trans mount can make it hard to shift. You are not far from PJ Grady, maybe take the car to him? Also a very worn clutch would make shifting hard. It may be time to replace the clutch. It can also be the pilot bearing needs lubrication but to get to it you have to take the clutch out.

Hey Dave, thanks for the overview of this. I think the issue I'm running into is basic stuff like WHERE the bleeder is on the slave or how to remove all the fluid from the reservoir. I looked this up in the workshop manual and it's barebones, as most of the items in it are. Surprisingly there isn't a good video of this on YouTube nor a walkthrough to take a noob like me step by step.

I'm open to having Rob look at it / do the work, but I'm trying to evaluate how involved this is before I toss money at the problem instead of time. I had Rob do my transmission fluids a couple years ago, so that should be fine.

I'll admit I'm guessing it's the clutch cylinders / fluids but you bring up a good point about the bearing.

Thanks.

-Aaron

[dn010]

A year or two ago, I replaced most of my clutch hydraulics. For the master, I removed nearly all the fluid from the reservoir using a reverse brake bleeder kit which is basically just a hand pump connected to a container with a hose from the container that goes to the brake nipple, only I sunk the hose into the reservoir and pumped all the fluid out into the container. Link: https://www.amazon.com/ZJERYL-GULL-Handheld-Motorcycle-Automotive/dp/B0BLGTBX7B

Once that was done, I removed the hose from the reservoir at the clutch MC and let the fluid that was left in the hose soak into a rag. Removed the line from the clutch MC to the slave and used a flexible funnel under the clutch MC to direct fluid into a pan under the car. Link: https://www.amazon.com/Cenforge-Flexible-Reusable-Draining-Spill-Free/dp/B0D12JMTGS

From there, I opened the slave cylinder nipple and use the above mentioned brake bleeder kit to pull any fluid through. Used the funnel again to direct fluid from the union on the trans down into the pan and then used rags to soak up anything that came from the slave cylinder connection.

There are some google images and youtube videos of the slave cylinder:
https://support.delorean.com/kb/a68/manual-transmission-clutch-hydraulics.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbWm2t0YqC8 (not my video)

Before I had the 3.0, I found it easiest to remove the slave from below. I remember moving the mixture unit out of the way to access the bleeder once. I had a hard time with the latest clutch slave and MC as far as bleeding the air for whatever reason, the solution was to use a power bleeder (also on Amazon) by taking the hose off the master cylinder cap adapter and putting it on a gear oil cap, the ones that have the spout you need to cut open. The hose fits nicely and the cap screws right on to the reservoir.

If you replace the line between the reservoir and clutch master cylinder, that is a pain in the ass job using the hose you have to heat up to get it to fit on (DMCH).

[dn010]

Also if I was to just do a fluid change only, I would definitely just use the power bleeder to accomplish this.

[David T]

The Workshop Manual was meant for technicians who are familiar with the basics of automotive repair. It is not a step-by-step how to. It assumes a lot. Usually a problem with the clutch hydraulics either happens all the time or when hot, not cold. It can be difficult for you to diagnose, especially if you are not familiar with these systems. Driving on a bad clutch can cause a lot of internal damage to the transmission so if you can't figure it out, get it to someone who can.

[dn010]

Usually a problem with the clutch hydraulics either happens all the time or when hot, not cold.

I disagree. If there is air in the line and you're struggling to shift when you first get in the car and turn it on ("cold"), shifting gets better by the time things appear "hot" because you've compressed the air from repeatedly pressing the pedal and this lasts until you turn off the car and walk away, and the air has a chance to deform. I just went through this same crap, hence the instructions above. The power bleeder was the only way I could get the air out of the system which is odd because a decade ago, I had zero problem bleeding the system just using a hose off the slave bleed screw going into a bottle of brake fluid. But the parts back then were probably not made in china either!

[MacStainless]

A year or two ago, I replaced most of my clutch hydraulics. For the master, I removed nearly all the fluid from the reservoir using a reverse brake bleeder kit which is basically just a hand pump connected to a container with a hose from the container that goes to the brake nipple, only I sunk the hose into the reservoir and pumped all the fluid out into the container. Link: https://www.amazon.com/ZJERYL-GULL-Handheld-Motorcycle-Automotive/dp/B0BLGTBX7B

Once that was done, I removed the hose from the reservoir at the clutch MC and let the fluid that was left in the hose soak into a rag. Removed the line from the clutch MC to the slave and used a flexible funnel under the clutch MC to direct fluid into a pan under the car. Link: https://www.amazon.com/Cenforge-Flexible-Reusable-Draining-Spill-Free/dp/B0D12JMTGS

From there, I opened the slave cylinder nipple and use the above mentioned brake bleeder kit to pull any fluid through. Used the funnel again to direct fluid from the union on the trans down into the pan and then used rags to soak up anything that came from the slave cylinder connection.

There are some google images and youtube videos of the slave cylinder:
https://support.delorean.com/kb/a68/manual-transmission-clutch-hydraulics.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbWm2t0YqC8 (not my video)

Before I had the 3.0, I found it easiest to remove the slave from below. I remember moving the mixture unit out of the way to access the bleeder once. I had a hard time with the latest clutch slave and MC as far as bleeding the air for whatever reason, the solution was to use a power bleeder (also on Amazon) by taking the hose off the master cylinder cap adapter and putting it on a gear oil cap, the ones that have the spout you need to cut open. The hose fits nicely and the cap screws right on to the reservoir.

If you replace the line between the reservoir and clutch master cylinder, that is a pain in the ass job using the hose you have to heat up to get it to fit on (DMCH).

This is incredibly helpful. Thank you. I think my hangup on doing this type of job comes down to 2 concerns of mine:

1. I'm 99% sure I'm on OG parts (cyls, lines, etc) so it's probably a wise time to replace them while this job is getting done. But even if I don't...

2. The procedure seems a bit more involved than it should be (welcome to life with a DMC, right??) so while I'm sure getting the system emptied is likely somewhat easy, it's getting it buttoned up and filled with new fluid that's a bit of a concern. Doesn't help that the slave cyl is in such a hard-to-reach spot.


I guess I need to consider more about how I want to go about it. If anyone else has more walkthroughs / in-depth info to show how it's done, it's always appreciated.

Thanks.

[dn010]

If you're running original parts, I would be considering leaving the job for Rob to handle. 40 years on them won't make replacement easy unless the car sat in a climate controlled garage the entire time.

Things to consider: If you do have the original clutch slave and master, it is probably better to sleeve them than to get "new" parts. Unfortunately this means downtime while waiting for the sleeve job to happen. Seems they really cheap out on metal these days, nothing really lasts and corrodes quickly, but I'm not saying anything new. You will definitely want to get rid of the plastic clutch line. If you have a stainless line now, that indicates someone has already been in there. Get rid of the steel clutch slave pipe and go with stainless (106773).

If you're still considering it on your own:

Once you drain the fluid, removing the clutch master is a matter of unbolting the two bolts holding it to the body and disconnecting the linkage to the pedal. It should come right out and the new one goes right in, two bolts and the linkage hooked back up. You have to transfer the nipple for the reservoir hose from the old to the new before it goes back in but that is straightforward.

The clutch slave cylinder is the worst for obvious reasons. Once the metal clutch pipe is removed, it is also two bolts holding it in place. Once those are removed you pretty much push the slave cylinder up and out of the way but as usual a pain in the ass with the heater hose, mixture unit and everything else in the way. The rod from the clutch fork will rotate with it once you clear everything. Perfect time to replace the dust boot that goes over the fork. installing the new slave, you push the piston of the slave against the rod on the clutch fork to push the piston in and then rotate the slave cylinder down into place. Again this is all much easier without all the crap up top (mixture unit, or taking the intake off really makes it easier but that is opening a new can of worms).

The plastic clutch line is just a matter of removing the old (cut the connection off one end to make it easier) and pushing the new between the frame and body. I don't recall having to lift the body up at all but it has been 20 years.

This is easy to say from someone who has done it multiple times, hard to visualize if you never have and you might get in over your head quickly.





This is incredibly helpful. Thank you. I think my hangup on doing this type of job comes down to 2 concerns of mine:

1. I'm 99% sure I'm on OG parts (cyls, lines, etc) so it's probably a wise time to replace them while this job is getting done. But even if I don't...

2. The procedure seems a bit more involved than it should be (welcome to life with a DMC, right??) so while I'm sure getting the system emptied is likely somewhat easy, it's getting it buttoned up and filled with new fluid that's a bit of a concern. Doesn't help that the slave cyl is in such a hard-to-reach spot.


I guess I need to consider more about how I want to go about it. If anyone else has more walkthroughs / in-depth info to show how it's done, it's always appreciated.

Thanks.