Vin10207 vod

[DrWin]

Alright, gentlemen, it's time for the infamous VOD expedition! :)

Car has started dropping the coolant somewhere behind/in the water pump area and has had intermittent no-warning engine-off-while-driving issues. I don't suppose they are related, but I figured that the coolant was the most important problem to take care of first, and also the most time consuming problem. Which is why I decided to spend this winter doing a partial engine dissambly to acces the infamous VOD.

My trouble with the VOD project is that I don't know what I don't know. I wouldn't mind having to go back here more times this winter to get it right or having to go back in next year, but I would VERY MUCH like to have the car back on the road from April 1st through October 1st. Which means I have to get this right before April 1st, if at all possible. Which I am assuming could be problematic for someone like me with limited wrenching experience.

Which is why I'm now turning to you for help. Mostly I would like to hear some do's and dont's of VOD work. Basically I would very much appreciate any and all help that would prevent me from either a) damaging anything or b) forgetting anything (important).

I've followed opethmike's VOD guide and got as far as here:
67861
67862
67863

I have the major restoration kit from Delorean Go and the coolant hoses for behind the water pump handy and as such I plan on replacing:

Distibutor cap and rotor
Ignition wiring
Spark plugs (NKG - are they optimal?)
Gaskets under the valve covers
Gasket under the engine oil sump
Cooling hoses


Question now is, what else do I need to check, repair, replace while I'm here?
Any suggestions welcome - I wan't to do this as best I possibly can. :)

[dmcman73]

Alright, gentlemen, it's time for the infamous VOD expedition! :)

Car has started dropping the coolant somewhere behind/in the water pump area and has had intermittent no-warning engine-off-while-driving issues. I don't suppose they are related, but I figured that the coolant was the most important problem to take care of first, and also the most time consuming problem. Which is why I decided to spend this winter doing a partial engine dissambly to acces the infamous VOD.

My trouble with the VOD project is that I don't know what I don't know. I wouldn't mind having to go back here more times this winter to get it right or having to go back in next year, but I would VERY MUCH like to have the car back on the road from April 1st through October 1st. Which means I have to get this right before April 1st, if at all possible. Which I am assuming could be problematic for someone like me with limited wrenching experience.

Which is why I'm now turning to you for help. Mostly I would like to hear some do's and dont's of VOD work. Basically I would very much appreciate any and all help that would prevent me from either a) damaging anything or b) forgetting anything (important).

I've followed opethmike's VOD guide and got as far as here:
67861
67862
67863

I have the major restoration kit from Delorean Go and the coolant hoses for behind the water pump handy and as such I plan on replacing:

Distibutor cap and rotor
Ignition wiring
Spark plugs (NKG - are they optimal?)
Gaskets under the valve covers
Gasket under the engine oil sump
Cooling hoses


Question now is, what else do I need to check, repair, replace while I'm here?
Any suggestions welcome - I wan't to do this as best I possibly can. :)

Coolant loss in that area can be from the steel pipe (not the Y pipe) that connects from the back of the pump to the heater pipe rots out and develops pin holes in it, mostly on the underside of it. It's more common then you think as these cars age. You can either replace it with another metal coolant return pipe: https://store.delorean.com/102482-coolant-return-pipe.html or replace it with an updated one that eliminates the metal pipe and replaces it with rubber to eliminate the issue: https://deloreanindustries.com/6-water-return-pipe-updated-configuration/. You can't simply run a rubber hose from the back of the water pump to the heater pipe, the water pump outlet is 3/4" and the heater pipe is 5/8".

Another source could be the two seals under the Y pipe but that is less common then the pipe rotting out as I previously mentioned.

[MrChocky]

I thin you got this. The only thing is that it's very dirty - make sure you get down in all the holes and clean everything out. There's some
debate now as to whether you should paint or not (I did, twice), so that's up to you. I think anything else would be obvious. Also,
revisiting the valley after you've done it once before is surprisingly quick, not that you need to do it in a hurry.

[82DMC12]

You've come a long way already. I was actually just in here for the second time on my own car, and fourth time total There is an intake O-ring Kit that you will want to get - https://store.delorean.com/k111171-intake-o-ring-kit.html

That has everything you need as far as o-rings and gaskets. Of course you will want to replace the two 45-degree coolant hoses that go onto the water pump (and connect to the heads) since they are easiest to change with the intake removed. Clean the head flanges with sand paper, or even better, remove them so you can wire-wheel them and then change the gaskets under them, too. I use a pneumatic handheld wire wheel on my air compressor to grind off all the old dried coolant crap so I get a good seal again.

Replace the big hose on the back of the water pump, replace the smaller 3/4" hose that goes onto the back of the pump for the heater return, and replace all the 5/8" short heater hoses that run off of the driver side head behind the distributor and go to the T pipe and the heater control valve. I'd replace the heater control valve, too. Replace all the hose clamps with quality stainless steel clamps, and orient them in such a way that you will be able to access them again without taking the engine apart (not possible with the two hoses under the intake of course)

I installed the DPI heater return eliminator kit and it's great quality but expensive. Do it if your heater return metal pipe is suspect. Also replace the heater feed hose from the heater control valve to the metal pipe along the frame by the passenger side trailing arm. The DPI kit comes with the return hose from the metal pipe.

Change all the vacuum lines on the 3-way ported switch. Clean the contacts and use dielectric grease on the two wiring plugs for the Y-pipe switches. It's not necessary to remove the switches to clean them as long as you have been good about coolant changes over the years.

If you decide to change the o-rings under the Y-pipe, make sure you soak those four bolts in Aero-Kroil for a few days before removing. Tap them with a hammer and consider heating the Y-pipe up with a propane torch before attempting the turn the bolts out. Very common for one or more to break off. The shank often gets stuck in the Y-pipe.

For a job like this, I replace every bolt and washer I remove and put a dab of copper anti-seize on them as I reinstall. I also blow out the threads and use some cutting oil to run the bolt in and out first to make sure the bolt will go in smoothly before I add the anti-seize and torque it down.

Perfect time to change distributor cap, rotor, and wires.....

You might also choose to clean all the parts you remove, they can be bead blasted at a machine shop and will look amazing when you get them back. Maybe put a coat of paint on.

Just a few things I did which of course took extra time and money but worth it in the end.

67865
67866

[David T]

The biggest problem you may face is broken bolts. As the previous poster mentioned, take all the precautions you can. If you feel a bolt is loosening up too much or too quickly, try tightening it a little bit and loosening it a little bit before you break it off. Usually the bolts on the Y pipe but also the bolts that hold the intake manifold. Tale plenty of pictures and notes. Replace all of the vacuum hoses but make sure you put the new ones back correctly. Most of the vendors offer a Master Kit that includes everything you will need. It should include new vee belts, idler bearings, and an "O" ring for the camshaft cap. Do a compression test and BEFORE you put the intake manifold back on, fill the coolant system and pressure test to make sure there are no leaks underneath.

[DrWin]

Coolant loss in that area can be from the steel pipe (not the Y pipe) that connects from the back of the pump to the heater pipe rots out and develops pin holes in it, mostly on the underside of it. It's more common then you think as these cars age. You can either replace it with another metal coolant return pipe: https://store.delorean.com/102482-coolant-return-pipe.html or replace it with an updated one that eliminates the metal pipe and replaces it with rubber to eliminate the issue: https://deloreanindustries.com/6-water-return-pipe-updated-configuration/. You can't simply run a rubber hose from the back of the water pump to the heater pipe, the water pump outlet is 3/4" and the heater pipe is 5/8".

Another source could be the two seals under the Y pipe but that is less common then the pipe rotting out as I previously mentioned.

Thanks for the input! :) I'll have to check the steel pipe that goes under the Y pipe for corrosion/damage before deciding to replace it. I don't think I understand the DPI part, as I would think that a steel pipe would always be more durable than a rubber hose? Or am I missing something? Is the rubber hose adding/changing anything regarding functionality or durability for the better?

[DrWin]

I thin you got this. The only thing is that it's very dirty - make sure you get down in all the holes and clean everything out. There's some
debate now as to whether you should paint or not (I did, twice), so that's up to you. I think anything else would be obvious. Also,
revisiting the valley after you've done it once before is surprisingly quick, not that you need to do it in a hurry.

Yeah, you can say that again! There are some rather deep pits in there, that were totally full of oily, sandy gunk, peppered with lost parts. I think I'll pass on painting it this time, as I'm not sure it would actually add durability and it is rather harder to un-paint it later, that it is to wait for another time and paint it later if I want.

[DrWin]

Thanks for the pointers! :)


I installed the DPI heater return eliminator kit and it's great quality but expensive. Do it if your heater return metal pipe is suspect. Also replace the heater feed hose from the heater control valve to the metal pipe along the frame by the passenger side trailing arm. The DPI kit comes with the return hose from the metal pipe.
Help me out here: What does that do, outside of changing the material from steel to rubber? Wouldn't we stille expect the rubber to wear out faster than a new steel pipe? You're not the first to suggest this and I think the kit looks nice, but I don't understand the rationale behind it. Please advice. :)


If you decide to change the o-rings under the Y-pipe, make sure you soak those four bolts in Aero-Kroil for a few days before removing. Tap them with a hammer and consider heating the Y-pipe up with a propane torch before attempting the turn the bolts out. Very common for one or more to break off. The shank often gets stuck in the Y-pipe.
Yeah, I'm gonna go for it - they have been soaking in WD-40 for a couple of days now. As I understand it patience is a virtue when this gets dissambled for the likely first time in 40 years.


For a job like this, I replace every bolt and washer I remove and put a dab of copper anti-seize on them as I reinstall. I also blow out the threads and use some cutting oil to run the bolt in and out first to make sure the bolt will go in smoothly before I add the anti-seize and torque it down.
That sound like great advice. I'm I right to assume that the sensors/sparkplugs etc. SHOULDN'T get any antisieze?

[DrWin]

Do a compression test and BEFORE you put the intake manifold back on, fill the coolant system and pressure test to make sure there are no leaks underneath.
That's clever. I'd hate to assemble everything only to realise later that I'm (still!) leaking coolant... Thanks! :)

[82DMC12]

Thanks for the pointers! :)


Help me out here: What does that do, outside of changing the material from steel to rubber? Wouldn't we stille expect the rubber to wear out faster than a new steel pipe? You're not the first to suggest this and I think the kit looks nice, but I don't understand the rationale behind it. Please advice. :)


Yeah, I'm gonna go for it - they have been soaking in WD-40 for a couple of days now. As I understand it patience is a virtue when this gets dissambled for the likely first time in 40 years.


That sound like great advice. I'm I right to assume that the sensors/sparkplugs etc. SHOULDN'T get any antisieze?

The DPI heater return kit definitely isn't necessary if your metal pipe is still in good shape. Mine wasn't, so I was glad to get rid of it, and replace it with hose which I can get locally if needed should it ever start to leak. The only real trick the DPI kit does is to convert from 3/4" to 5/8" heater hose, which the original OEM hose did via being different sizes at both ends (hard to find locally as well). This makes the heater easier to repair in the future, same day, without waiting for parts.

WD40 isn't that great for penetrating oil. I like mixing 50/50 acetone and ATF, or Aerokroil which is in a spray can.

You can put an extremely thin layer of anti-seize on spart plug threads and sensor threads but do not get it on the insulator or sensor elements. A tiny bit of anti-seize is all you should need.

[DrWin]

The DPI heater return kit definitely isn't necessary if your metal pipe is still in good shape. Mine wasn't, so I was glad to get rid of it, and replace it with hose which I can get locally if needed should it ever start to leak. The only real trick the DPI kit does is to convert from 3/4" to 5/8" heater hose, which the original OEM hose did via being different sizes at both ends (hard to find locally as well). This makes the heater easier to repair in the future, same day, without waiting for parts.

WD40 isn't that great for penetrating oil. I like mixing 50/50 acetone and ATF, or Aerokroil which is in a spray can.

You can put an extremely thin layer of anti-seize on spart plug threads and sensor threads but do not get it on the insulator or sensor elements. A tiny bit of anti-seize is all you should need.

Thanks! Much appreciated! :)

I think I'm beginning to understand the DPI solution here. Because the original setup also has rubber hose => steel tube => rubber hose, the DPI solution is just an easier way to get the same job done and would likely only require new hoses if it started leaking, whereas the stock setup would require either new rubber hoses OR steel tube. Makes perfect sense. Is the DPI rubber plain rubber or some long life variant or sillicone? Do you happen to know that?

[82DMC12]

Thanks! Much appreciated! :)

I think I'm beginning to understand the DPI solution here. Because the original setup also has rubber hose => steel tube => rubber hose, the DPI solution is just an easier way to get the same job done and would likely only require new hoses if it started leaking, whereas the stock setup would require either new rubber hoses OR steel tube. Makes perfect sense. Is the DPI rubber plain rubber or some long life variant or sillicone? Do you happen to know that?

The DPI hoses are silicone. DPI also sells a stainless hose clamp set that will do the entire car for a pretty reasonable price, and they are very good hose clamps, too. If you plan to eventually do every hose on the car, and you should if they are more than 15 years old, then the kit is a good thing to get.

[Rich]

The DPI hoses are silicone. DPI also sells a stainless hose clamp set that will do the entire car for a pretty reasonable price, and they are very good hose clamps, too. If you plan to eventually do every hose on the car, and you should if they are more than 15 years old, then the kit is a good thing to get.

When converting to silicone hoses be sure to use only clamps that are designed for use with silicone hoses. See this link for reasons why:

https://www.global-hose.com/silicone-hose-clamps

(https://www.global-hose.com/silicone-hose-clamps)The DPI silicone hose kit includes such hose clamps which they also sell individually. Other D vendors offering silicone hoses also do this.

[MrChocky]

When converting to silicone hoses be sure to use only clamps that are designed for use with silicone hoses. See this link for reasons why:

https://www.global-hose.com/silicone-hose-clamps

(https://www.global-hose.com/silicone-hose-clamps)The DPI silicone hose kit includes such hose clamps which they also sell individually. Other D vendors offering silicone hoses also do this.

Since we're on the topic, correct clamps should be used on fuel lines too.

https://www.deloreango.com/us/flexible-fuel-hose-line-accumulator.html

[DrWin]

The DPI hoses are silicone. DPI also sells a stainless hose clamp set that will do the entire car for a pretty reasonable price, and they are very good hose clamps, too. If you plan to eventually do every hose on the car, and you should if they are more than 15 years old, then the kit is a good thing to get.

That sounds like something I’d order as well. Been looking for a kit of SS bolts/nuts/washers/spring washers too, for the entire engine bay. Quality hose clamps sound like a great idea.


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[DrWin]

Since we're on the topic, correct clamps should be used on fuel lines too.

https://www.deloreango.com/us/flexible-fuel-hose-line-accumulator.html

Whoopsie daisy - I have to look into the entire propper hose clamps thing - I thought there was basically one kind. :)

See this is why I’m asking these basic questions, I have a sneaking suspicion that there is more to the basica than I understand. Suspicion confirmed. :)


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[DrWin]

When converting to silicone hoses be sure to use only clamps that are designed for use with silicone hoses. See this link for reasons why:

https://www.global-hose.com/silicone-hose-clamps

(https://www.global-hose.com/silicone-hose-clamps)The DPI silicone hose kit includes such hose clamps which they also sell individually. Other D vendors offering silicone hoses also do this.

Thanks! :) Any reason NOT to use sillicone compatible hose clamps everywhere? (Higher cost?)


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[Timeless]

I would recommend constant tension clamps. I have used them on all my projects over the years and have never had one let go/get loose. I love them. This AMS article references forced induction the same principle applies.

https://www.turbosmart.com/product-category/products/silicone-hose-clamps/constant-tension-quick-release-hose-clamps/

https://www.amsperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Worm_Gear_Clamp.pdf

[DrWin]

I would recommend constant tension clamps. I have used them on all my projects over the years and have never had one let go/get loose. I love them. This AMS article references forced induction the same principle applies.

https://www.turbosmart.com/product-category/products/silicone-hose-clamps/constant-tension-quick-release-hose-clamps/

https://www.amsperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Worm_Gear_Clamp.pdf

Thanks! I'll have a look, might as well get the best clamps now that I took the time tear the engine apart, I might as well put some quality in to it. :)