Clutch not working when hot

[Helirich]

Anybody have their clutch not work when hot? Today I drove the car for over an hour. Everything was fine. Parked the car in the full sun (for an hour) and it wouldn’t go in reverse. The clutch felt OK, but the gear shift would just grind. It went into first gear reluctantly. In the other forward gears I think it wasn’t working good, but it went better because I matched the rpms while shifting. I checked the fluid level and it’s full.

[82DMC12]

Been there done that. First make sure you've replaced the original plastic clutch line with a SS braided line. If you did that already and you don't see any leaks , flush and bleed the clutch. I have the DPI remote clutch bleeder which makes it so much easier. If you keep having to bleed it out , you probably have air getting in at either the master or slave cylinders. Check for fluid leaking into the foot well where the clutch master is bolted to the firewall.

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[Ron]

+1

And if you can find no leaks, suspect a seal bypassing internally...

[Helirich]

Been there done that. First make sure you've replaced the original plastic clutch line with a SS braided line. If you did that already and you don't see any leaks , flush and bleed the clutch. I have the DPI remote clutch bleeder which makes it so much easier. If you keep having to bleed it out , you probably have air getting in at either the master or slave cylinders. Check for fluid leaking into the foot well where the clutch master is bolted to the firewall.

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Mine has the SS lines. I’ll check for leaks. Wouldn’t the fluid go down?

[82DMC12]

Mine has the SS lines. I’ll check for leaks. Wouldn’t the fluid go down?Doesn't take much of a leak at all to draw air into the line. The piston barely moves anyway, and air compresses; fluid does not.

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[Helirich]

So I checked for leaks in the floor. It’s all dry there. I noticed that the pedal will go down an inch before it actually does anything. Seems like I brought this up before when it wasn’t as bad. I think my master is about a year old. Maybe it’s no good. I could extend the linkage to take up the play, but I’m wondering if that will just make the pedal bottom out sooner. Does the spring ever ware out in the master? Maybe poor machining catches the piston?

[82DMC12]

It's almost certainly air in the clutch line. The master is pushing in, the air is compressing, and once the air is compressed, the fluid finally moves and makes the slave work. That's why the pedal moves so far before the slave starts to work.

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[Rich]

Does the problem disappear after the car cools down, as if the master and slave are both OK? Only happens when you hot-soak it, parked after a long drive on a hot day, especially at low speeds around town before parking?

Then the clutch fluid is probably boiling inside the SS line back there above the drivetrain.

1. Check the routing of the SS clutch line. Be sure none of it got coiled too close to the exhaust crossover pipe.

2. Be sure there are still 2 complete heat shields bolted onto the crossover, Items 10-11 in this schematic (https://store.delorean.com/parts/engine/1-5-0-exhaust-system-muffler-heatshields.html).

I assume you aren't running headers (no crossover in that case).

[Helirich]

It's almost certainly air in the clutch line. The master is pushing in, the air is compressing, and once the air is compressed, the fluid finally moves and makes the slave work. That's why the pedal moves so far before the slave starts to work.

I believe the rod is not hitting anything during the inch of pedal travel. If it was air, I think it would have some resistance and than get harder when it moves fluid. I realize squeezing air is not much, but the piston and seal have to move. (Or should move) I’m thinking the piston/seal is stuck down a bit.


Does the problem disappear after the car cools down, as if the master and slave are both OK? Only happens when you hot-soak it, parked after a long drive on a hot day, especially at low speeds around town before parking?

Then the clutch fluid is probably boiling inside the SS line back there above the drivetrain.

1. Check the routing of the SS clutch line. Be sure none of it got coiled too close to the exhaust crossover pipe.

2. Be sure there are still 2 complete heat shields bolted onto the crossover, Items 10-11 in this schematic (https://store.delorean.com/parts/engine/1-5-0-exhaust-system-muffler-heatshields.html).

I assume you aren't running headers (no crossover in that case).

I’m not sure if it will disappear this time, but it has in the past. In the past, I needed to push every last bit to work the clutch. This time, I pulled the carpet clear and pushed till I got to the floor and still it would not disengage. I have headers. Not sure if the line can get hot on something else. I’ll look in to it.

[DMC-Ron]

It's almost certainly air in the clutch line. The master is pushing in, the air is compressing, and once the air is compressed, the fluid finally moves and makes the slave work. That's why the pedal moves so far before the slave starts to work.


Agreed. Air in the clutch line would seem the most likely suspect. If the air is trapped where it gets heated, it expands in volume, pushing clutch(brake) fluid back to the reservoir. So, when it's hot, the area ratio of air to liquid increases. The result is more air compression and less actual slave piston movement with a given clutch peddle displacement.

Ron

[Helirich]

So I pulled the clutch master and removed the cer-clip. Got the rod off.

68515

Then I cut it and welded a piece in. It added about .240”in length. This piece has reverse leverage, so the 1/4” translates to more than a 1/2” in pedal travel removed. (Note to self, grind off cad plating before welding)

68516

Installed it back in the car and bled the system.

The clutch works much better. Now the pedal only moves a 1/4” or less to take up the play. Of course I can’t claim this is the fix because I spent a lot of time bleeding the system.

[Jack]

I don't think anyone mentioned it yet.
But I recall either a write up or a vendor post maybe special t auto back in the day. Where it talked about the possibility of bent clutch forks causing play or general clutch travel issues. Anyone else remember that? Next time your in the valley wouldn't hurt to pull the rubber back and take a look.

[David T]

I don't think anyone mentioned it yet.
But I recall either a write up or a vendor post maybe special t auto back in the day. Where it talked about the possibility of bent clutch forks causing play or general clutch travel issues. Anyone else remember that? Next time your in the valley wouldn't hurt to pull the rubber back and take a look.

There was also an adjustable link offered that went on the clutch pedal to try to remove as much play as possible so as to give all the travel you could get. All of these "fixes" did not correct the problem, the plastic hose would expand due to the heat and caused the loss of full travel. Lotus's of that era also suffered from the same problem and the fix is the same. We call it "Red Hose Syndrome", they call it "Soft Pedal Syndrome". The other thing to do is to change the fluid at least every 2 years so the cylinders don't corrode, tear up the seals, and start leaking. If you drive on a wonky clutch you damage the roll pins inside the transmission by forcing shifts. If you have play in the shifter linkage replace the rubber bushings and make sure everything is adjusted well. Keep an extra shifter bolt in the glove box in case you break it. Old, bad fluid can act as if you have air in the system. The water in the fluid turns to steam when it gets hot.

[Helirich]

Today I drove to a restaurant with my wife. Everything was fine. I parked the car and had dinner and drinks with friends. We were there for three hours. It was late afternoon when we arrived and it was dark when we were leaving. Of course it was hot when we got there, but it was noticeably cooler when we came out.

After starting the car I tried to shift into reverse. It would not go into reverse. It was as if the clutch did nothing. The pedal felt normal, but it would just grind gears if I tried to force it. It would grind in forward gears also, but I could force it in first or third. I ended up pushing the car back out of the spot. Than I forced it in first. After getting it moving, I was able to shift somewhat normal because of rpm matching. Here’s the kicker. When I got home, (about 7 miles) the clutch worked fine. I could shift into any gear (including reverse) while sitting still.

I know air in the system can cause trouble, but how did it fix itself? Is there any other explanation besides air in the system?

The other thing I have noticed in the last few months is almost always the first time I shift into reverse, it goes into second. It’s like I get in the habit of expecting it to go in to second. I’ll try it. Then shift back to newtral and back into reverse again. The second time, it will go in to reverse even though I do it the same way. Is there a linkage adjustment that needs to be done?

[dn010]

You don't mention what the fluid level was when this happened. Yes, there are linkage adjustments that can be found in the manual. One thing that helps a lot is to replace all the bushings throughout the linkage if you have not already done so.

[ssdelorean]

Check your shift linkage bolt. Sometimes those act up just before breaking.

[Helirich]

You don't mention what the fluid level was when this happened. Yes, there are linkage adjustments that can be found in the manual. One thing that helps a lot is to replace all the bushings throughout the linkage if you have not already done so.

Fluid is full.


Check your shift linkage bolt. Sometimes those act up just before breaking.

It just did it this morning again. Would not go into reverse, but would go in first without too much trouble. I guess I need to break out the manual. This sucks because I have a problem with my truck right now. Of course it’s 100 degrees in the shade.

[Rich]

You may have more than one cause of these problems.

Grinding when trying to engage any gear out of neutral: Clutch not disengaging. If disengagement problem is intermittent then it can be either clutch or slave leaking internally - at some times and not others. Especially if you can sometimes pump it and recover disengagement. Yes, the system has to be fully bled to work properly in any case, as you mention.

Grabbing 2nd instead of R: Crossgate cable adjustment


Today I drove to a restaurant with my wife. Everything was fine. I parked the car and had dinner and drinks with friends. We were there for three hours. It was late afternoon when we arrived and it was dark when we were leaving. Of course it was hot when we got there, but it was noticeably cooler when we came out.

After starting the car I tried to shift into reverse. It would not go into reverse. It was as if the clutch did nothing. The pedal felt normal, but it would just grind gears if I tried to force it. It would grind in forward gears also, but I could force it in first or third. I ended up pushing the car back out of the spot. Than I forced it in first. After getting it moving, I was able to shift somewhat normal because of rpm matching. Here’s the kicker. When I got home, (about 7 miles) the clutch worked fine. I could shift into any gear (including reverse) while sitting still.

I know air in the system can cause trouble, but how did it fix itself? Is there any other explanation besides air in the system?

The other thing I have noticed in the last few months is almost always the first time I shift into reverse, it goes into second. It’s like I get in the habit of expecting it to go in to second. I’ll try it. Then shift back to newtral and back into reverse again. The second time, it will go in to reverse even though I do it the same way. Is there a linkage adjustment that needs to be done?

[Helirich]

So I lifted the car and tour apart the console. The fore and aft tube(s) has some play in the ends, but the mechanism for moving it seems good. That play would only force me to move the shifter slightly more. The cable linkage looks fine up front. I can’t really tell about the rear till I get some help. (I need to see it move.) In any case, no smoking gun.

[Rich]

Correction to my post in bold, also a note below about where the crossgate cable adjustment is done:


You may have more than one cause of these problems.

Grinding when trying to engage any gear out of neutral => Clutch not disengaging.
If disengagement problem is intermittent then it can be either the master or slave leaking internally - at some times and not others. Especially if you can sometimes pump it and recover disengagement.
Yes, the system has to be fully bled to work properly in any case, as you mention.


Grabbing 2nd instead of R => Crossgate cable adjustment

Note: For the crossgate cable adjustment, yes, you'd to get underneath to sort that out at the transmission. DWM page F:07:01

But you don't need to see the shifter move to check or make the adjustment although having a helper might save you some time. See "Checking Adjustment" in the manual.

Martin G. posted a fine video about this adjustment (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng6-l2fhPXw).

[David T]

If you do not get full disengagement of the clutch it is always hardest getting into reverse because reverse does not have any syncros. Besides all of the suggestions in my previous post, if you don't know when the last time the oil was changed in the trans (or what kind of oil it is), it is time to change it or at the very least check the level. If the clutch doesn't work (or work well) when cold but seems to improve when hot, you probably are low on clutch fluid and when it gets hot and expands you get some more clutch action. Check the hose between the reservoir and the clutch master. It could be kinked, plugged up, or if it is sweating, it should be replaced. I would flush and bleed the clutch hydraulics again.

[Helirich]

Correction to my post in bold, also a note below about where the crossgate cable adjustment is done:



Note: For the crossgate cable adjustment, yes, you'd to get underneath to sort that out at the transmission. DWM page F:07:01

But you don't need to see the shifter move to check or make the adjustment although having a helper might save you some time. See "Checking Adjustment" in the manual.

Martin G. posted a fine video about this adjustment (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng6-l2fhPXw).

The video is good. First thing I noticed was my shift linkage is a gob of grease and dirt. I’m wondering if my shifter is not coming up the whole way sometimes because of junk in the way. Also noted my roll pin is sticking out more than his. (Almost ready to pop out)

Watching his explanation, it would appear that I should have trouble getting 1-2 if I’m having trouble getting reverse. (If the cable is out of adjustment.)

I’ll take another look today. Thanks.

Ps, the other thing I noticed in the video was the bracket in the rear was flexing when his assistant shifted. Could be a source of trouble.

[Helirich]

If you do not get full disengagement of the clutch it is always hardest getting into reverse because reverse does not have any syncros. Besides all of the suggestions in my previous post, if you don't know when the last time the oil was changed in the trans (or what kind of oil it is), it is time to change it or at the very least check the level. If the clutch doesn't work (or work well) when cold but seems to improve when hot, you probably are low on clutch fluid and when it gets hot and expands you get some more clutch action. Check the hose between the reservoir and the clutch master. It could be kinked, plugged up, or if it is sweating, it should be replaced. I would flush and bleed the clutch hydraulics again.

I changed the oil about a year ago. (Good quality synthetic) I will check it again, but it doesn’t seem to leak. My fluid is full and the hose is good. I’ve always heard that hydraulics get worse with heat. (Brakes, steering or clutch) Thats what happened to me previously on the clutch. That’s why I found this weird that it seemed to get worse cooler. I was wondering if the angle of the car has an effect. The parking spot was slightly down hill. It wasn’t much because I pushed it back by my self. But it definitely was not level. Maybe air in the line moved to the rear?

I tend to agree with Rich, I think I have two problems. Air in the system and some adjustment issues. Maybe the slave cylinder is going bad. (I never replaced it)

[Helirich]

Today I checked the adjustments every which way. I think they are good. I’m not happy with the pin on the shifter. Mine is not a roll pin. It is a dowel pin. Does anybody no if that is wrong? Funny, the DMC doesn’t show that part. I’m going to try to push it in some. There is none of it sticking out the back.

In any case, I guess my major problem is air in the system. I’ve never needed a power bleeder, but I think I’m going to get one.

If anybody has a favorite brand, love to hear a review.

[WHO1DMC]

Today I checked the adjustments every which way. I think they are good. I’m not happy with the pin on the shifter. Mine is not a roll pin. It is a dowel pin. Does anybody no if that is wrong? Funny, the DMC doesn’t show that part. I’m going to try to push it in some. There is none of it sticking out the back.

In any case, I guess my major problem is air in the system. I’ve never needed a power bleeder, but I think I’m going to get one.

If anybody has a favorite brand, love to hear a review.


Last year I replaced both my master and slave at the same time. I used the V-5 brake bleeder and it worked very well. It's a hand pump reverse type. I haven't had to revisit my work and I never did anything like this before.


Dave B.

[David T]

I have a Phoenix bleeder but all you need is the "One Man Bleeder" which is nothing more then a short piece of hose and a vacuum check valve. There was a kit that extended the bleeder off the slave cylinder to an easier spot to get to. I don't know if anyone still offers it.

[Helirich]

So I got a mityvac and bled it. The biggest issue is the stupid bleeder. I’ve never understood the design where when you open the bleeder, it leaks air through the threads. The vacuum would suck air all the time. It wouldn’t seem like it would be that hard to design something better.

Anyways, it appears the clutch works for now. I did clean and lube the shift mechanism in the console and I can get reverse much easier.

Thanks to all that commented.

[Bitsyncmaster]

So I got a mityvac and bled it. The biggest issue is the stupid bleeder. I’ve never understood the design where when you open the bleeder, it leaks air through the threads. The vacuum would suck air all the time. It wouldn’t seem like it would be that hard to design something better.

Anyways, it appears the clutch works for now. I did clean and lube the shift mechanism in the console and I can get reverse much easier.

Thanks to all that commented.

Brake bleeders are the same. They pull air through the threads so you never get the "no bubbles".

[David T]

One way to prevent sucking in air is to remove the bleeder and grease it up. I never like to vacuum out the fluid, it is always better to bleed with pressure. You get a lot more pressure, more than you can get with vacuum and the bubbles are smaller. The one man bleeder (or a helper) is the way to go.

[Helirich]

One way to prevent sucking in air is to remove the bleeder and grease it up. I never like to vacuum out the fluid, it is always better to bleed with pressure. You get a lot more pressure, more than you can get with vacuum and the bubbles are smaller. The one man bleeder (or a helper) is the way to go.

Yea, I was thinking maybe remove it and wrap it with Teflon tape. What they should have is miniature ball valves.

Edit, just found this.

http://www.stahlbus.com/products/en/bleeding-system/index.php

[82DMC12]

Hey guys, since we are talking about clutch bleeding, here's one for you. I installed the DPI remote clutch bleeder which is a DOT hose that screws into the clutch slave and then runs down the bellhousing and attaches to a clip so you can operate the bleeder from under the car. Super slick. I installed it last fall. Today I went for a test drive after doing some work and almost immediately getting out of my garage I wasn't able to get out of first gear without turning the engine off. I backed back into the garage and got under it and found the bleeder on it must have been leaking a little bit because there was a drop of clutch fluid on the dust cover for it. My wife helped pump the clutch while I bled it from under the car and sure enough a bunch of bubbles came out on the first bleed. We flushed quite a bit to make sure it was OK and I closed the bleeder tighter this time. I asked her to push the clutch in and hold it one last time when I was done and as she held it to the floor, I could hear, from inside the clutch slave, a "tink tink tink" sound and I saw the piston and fork retract back into the slave about 1/4" and then seems to stop. When she lets go of the clutch, it retracts the rest of the way. I had her try this a few more times and I bled the clutch further but it still does that each time. I can't find any evidence of a leak on the slave or master, I have a SS line, and just today I had the air meter unit out and I looked at the new hose connection on the clutch slave and it is not leaking.

Anyway I did go for a drive after that and it was shifting fine....

That normal?

[WHO1DMC]

Hey guys, since we are talking about clutch bleeding, here's one for you. I installed the DPI remote clutch bleeder which is a DOT hose that screws into the clutch slave and then runs down the bellhousing and attaches to a clip so you can operate the bleeder from under the car. Super slick. I installed it last fall. Today I went for a test drive after doing some work and almost immediately getting out of my garage I wasn't able to get out of first gear without turning the engine off. I backed back into the garage and got under it and found the bleeder on it must have been leaking a little bit because there was a drop of clutch fluid on the dust cover for it. My wife helped pump the clutch while I bled it from under the car and sure enough a bunch of bubbles came out on the first bleed. We flushed quite a bit to make sure it was OK and I closed the bleeder tighter this time. I asked her to push the clutch in and hold it one last time when I was done and as she held it to the floor, I could hear, from inside the clutch slave, a "tink tink tink" sound and I saw the piston and fork retract back into the slave about 1/4" and then seems to stop. When she lets go of the clutch, it retracts the rest of the way. I had her try this a few more times and I bled the clutch further but it still does that each time. I can't find any evidence of a leak on the slave or master, I have a SS line, and just today I had the air meter unit out and I looked at the new hose connection on the clutch slave and it is not leaking.

Anyway I did go for a drive after that and it was shifting fine....

That normal?

That seems like a good reason not to have the habit of riding the clutch! I for one had this habit and had to break myself of it.



Dave B.

[David T]

When you step on the clutch pedal, inside the clutch master cylinder you are holding a valve closed to prevent the fluid from leaking back from the slave cylinder into the master cylinder. If that valve leaks the clutch will release even though you are holding the pedal to the floor. The fix is to rebuild or replace the clutch master cylinder. You will never see any leaks because it is internal.

[Helirich]

Hey guys, since we are talking about clutch bleeding, here's one for you. I installed the DPI remote clutch bleeder which is a DOT hose that screws into the clutch slave and then runs down the bellhousing and attaches to a clip so you can operate the bleeder from under the car. Super slick. I installed it last fall. Today I went for a test drive after doing some work and almost immediately getting out of my garage I wasn't able to get out of first gear without turning the engine off. I backed back into the garage and got under it and found the bleeder on it must have been leaking a little bit because there was a drop of clutch fluid on the dust cover for it. My wife helped pump the clutch while I bled it from under the car and sure enough a bunch of bubbles came out on the first bleed. We flushed quite a bit to make sure it was OK and I closed the bleeder tighter this time. I asked her to push the clutch in and hold it one last time when I was done and as she held it to the floor, I could hear, from inside the clutch slave, a "tink tink tink" sound and I saw the piston and fork retract back into the slave about 1/4" and then seems to stop. When she lets go of the clutch, it retracts the rest of the way. I had her try this a few more times and I bled the clutch further but it still does that each time. I can't find any evidence of a leak on the slave or master, I have a SS line, and just today I had the air meter unit out and I looked at the new hose connection on the clutch slave and it is not leaking.

Anyway I did go for a drive after that and it was shifting fine....

That normal?

I would think you still have air in the line. One thing I would do if I had the remote bleeder is have it higher than the slave while you bleed it. You want the air to go up and out. After you’re done, you can tie it down wherever.

[82DMC12]

I would think you still have air in the line. One thing I would do if I had the remote bleeder is have it higher than the slave while you bleed it. You want the air to go up and out. After you’re done, you can tie it down wherever.

That's an interesting suggestion, you might be right. I had the bleeder above the axle pointed pretty much horizontal but it was below the slave. I'll try to re-bleed with the hose unclipped and sticking up behind the engine. If that doesn't work, perhaps I need a new clutch master as David suggested. I have already replaced the slave and master once (Grady style) so I wouldn't think I need it again but who knows.

[Helirich]

I removed the bleeder and wrapped it generously with Teflon tape. Bled it again with the vacuum device. Still has bubbles, but less. Figured it was good and out everything away.

So I went to drive the car yesterday. No clutch. It was better before the Teflon. Got to thinking the vacuum thing can actually suck air past the cylinder seals because they only seal one way. If it did that, the air would be right in the cylinder. (As opposed to the line) It’s possible you could be sucking air in the master which means you would have to suck the whole system through to get that air out. At this point I don’t like the vacuum thing. I will be going back conventional bleeding.

Another thing I came up with. Might it be good to jack up or park the car on a down hill ramp to get the slave higher? That way air would be more likely to come back to the bleeder. Probably doesn’t make much difference, but easy enough to do.

[82DMC12]

I removed the bleeder and wrapped it generously with Teflon tape. Bled it again with the vacuum device. Still has bubbles, but less. Figured it was good and out everything away.

So I went to drive the car yesterday. No clutch. It was better before the Teflon. Got to thinking the vacuum thing can actually suck air past the cylinder seals because they only seal one way. If it did that, the air would be right in the cylinder. (As opposed to the line) It’s possible you could be sucking air in the master which means you would have to suck the whole system through to get that air out. At this point I don’t like the vacuum thing. I will be going back conventional bleeding.

Another thing I came up with. Might it be good to jack up or park the car on a down hill ramp to get the slave higher? That way air would be more likely to come back to the bleeder. Probably doesn’t make much difference, but easy enough to do.Yeah I bought a MityVac for my brakes and I'm not impressed with it at all. I kept going around in circles bleeding over and over again and never could get a hard pedal. I ended up buying a Motive power bleeder and it worked so much better. For my clutch, I just grab the wife and have her pump while I bleed.

Later this week I will do another bleed because I think you are right, if I have the remote bleed hose pointing downward, any bubbles that remain in the hose are floating back up to the high point which is the clutch slave.

I don't use the mityvac for anything anymore except pulling a vacuum or sucking fluid out of something like the clutch reservoir or brake reservoir.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Helirich]

Tonite I bled it one more time the old fashioned way. Actually, old and new. I still had the bleeder wrapped with Teflon. I just cracked it and put a hose on the bleeder to a plastic cup. I started pumping without a helper. The cup filled with fluid to the point where the hose end was under water. Then no air could get back in the hose. The Teflon seem to work to keep the air leaking past. I probably pumped a pint of new fluid through. I pulled the hose and tightened the bleeder.

I backed the car out of the garage. The clutch seemed to work fine. I wanted to take it for a short test drive, but the engine was running like total junk. I didn’t know what happened, but I had another project on the go and didn’t have time to investigate. I pulled the car back in the garage and worked on my truck. After I got that fixed, I wanted to take it for a test drive. The D was in the way, so I got back in and started it. Much to my amazement, it started right up and idled perfect. Drove just fine.

The truck test drive went fine and I pulled them both back in the garage for the nite. I figured I would quit on a positive note. I’m still baffled about engine, but I think the clutch is fixed.

I highly recommend the Teflon tape on the bleeder. I’m going to try that the next time I work on brakes too.

[82DMC12]

A couple nights ago I bled my clutch again, this time with the remove bleeder sticking up into the engine compartment. My wife pumped the clutch while I did the bleeding and it worked really well. I'm confident we got all the air out. Unfortunately within a day my clutch started acting up again. If I start the car in neutral and after warming up, shift into reverse, it goes into gear easily but as I'm slowly backing out of the driveway with the clutch in and feathering the brake, the clutch starts to drag and I'm fighting the brake. Once I get to the street, I can't get out of reverse unless I shut the engine off and shift into 1st, then restart with the clutch in. I went right back into the garage and inspected my hydraulics again. No leaks but inside the rubber boot of both the master and the slave it's a bit greasy/grimy but no standing fluid. I assume I'm suffering from the seal in the master cylinder is letting fluid backwards into the reservoir the clutch is in. This is causing the spring on the fork to retract and my clutch drags. Looks like I'm going to replace the master cylinder at minimum.

[Helirich]

Sorry to hear of your trouble 82DMC12. I took mine out for a test drive and I do believe my clutch is working good now. The car wasn’t running very good though. Almost seems like bad gas. Twice I could only get it started by holding the pedal to the floor. I don’t really understand that because, as I see it, the pedal doesn’t really do anything until the motor is running. I guess I need to study some more.

[82DMC12]

Sorry to hear of your trouble 82DMC12. I took mine out for a test drive and I do believe my clutch is working good now. The car wasn’t running very good though. Almost seems like bad gas. Twice I could only get it started by holding the pedal to the floor. I don’t really understand that because, as I see it, the pedal doesn’t really do anything until the motor is running. I guess I need to study some more.

Thanks for the sympathy :-)

It could definitely be bad gas. The car should be easy to start with the transmission in neutral and not touching the throttle at all - just turn the key and it should start (assuming everything else is set up and tuned properly). I know the sun visor has instructions for starting the car but I don't follow them. It actually seems harder to start if you follow them. I just sit down, push in the clutch, confirm neutral, and turn the key.

If it only starts if you mash the gas pedal while cranking, that sounds like poor mixture or poor fuel quality. You're allowing more air to go into the engine which is eventually getting you lucky enough to hit the right ratio of fuel vs air so it starts and keeps running.

[82DMC12]

So I know this totally isn't my thread (I'm not OP) but I did post a few times in it about a different clutch problem and I want to help future readers know how I diagnosed my own issue. My problem is the clutch had been bled out with no external visible leaks but yet sometimes especially when cold I had hard time getting into gear from neutral (and once had a hard time getting out of reverse) while at the same time, the clutch was dragging while the pedal was in. Not a very safe situation!

I have a Motive power bleeder for my brakes and I decided to make an adapter for the clutch reservoir. There are a couple fittings from Motive that sound like they should work but they don't. One of them is "Classic British Adapter" but that one didn't fit. I read somewhere else that the clutch reservoir cap is the same as VW air cooled brake reservoir but then someone else said the VW Air Cooled Motive adapter doesn't work either. I also read that the cap from a pint of brake fluid works, but I only Castrol brake fluid and that cap is too big. Well what DID work is the cap from a quart of Toro lawn mower oil. Perfect fit. I drilled a 1/2" hole in the cap and threaded a hose barb into it and cut a rubber washer to fit the inside of the cap. Then added 5/16" ID clear tubing and connected it to the Motive.

In this way, I can now power bleed the clutch. I did manage to get a couple more air bubbles out.

I also checked the reservoir while my wife pumped the clutch because I was told by Rob Grady that if the seal on the end of the clutch master is bad, you should see bubbles or turbulence in the reservoir while pumping. I saw one bubble come up but after about 30 pumps, nothing. Despite the good bleed, I could still hear the fork "tink tink tinking" while the clutch is depressed and it's very slowly retracting back inside. That's what's causing my dragging clutch.

In the end, I think all my flushing has made a slight seep from the clutch slave cylinder because it's more oily than grimy in the boot up there last night then it was the last couple times I was working on this. I'm just going to replace both the master and the slave and then I should be confident my clutch is 100% again.

68648

[Helirich]

Thanks for the sympathy :-)

It could definitely be bad gas. The car should be easy to start with the transmission in neutral and not touching the throttle at all - just turn the key and it should start (assuming everything else is set up and tuned properly). I know the sun visor has instructions for starting the car but I don't follow them. It actually seems harder to start if you follow them. I just sit down, push in the clutch, confirm neutral, and turn the key.

If it only starts if you mash the gas pedal while cranking, that sounds like poor mixture or poor fuel quality. You're allowing more air to go into the engine which is eventually getting you lucky enough to hit the right ratio of fuel vs air so it starts and keeps running.

Did I say it keeps running? Lol. It keeps running if I rev it. Don’t have time to look at it right now. Probably another thread. Lol.

Edit, I took too long to decide what to write here. Anyways, great work on the power bleeder. My clutch seems to be fixed, so anyone is welcome to post clutch issues or fixes on this thread.

[82DMC12]

Did I say it keeps running? Lol. It keeps running if I rev it. Don’t have time to look at it right now. Probably another thread. Lol.


I had a similar problem after replacing the O-ring under my fuel distributor. My old one was mashed down and I had set my CO with it like that. When I installed a new o-ring as part of an intake rebuild, the new thicker o-ring changed the vertical relationship of the metering pin to the roller bearing so my CO was way out of whack. I had to reset it by pulling the injectors and richening until they started to leak, then backed off until they just stopped dripping again. Then I was back in the right ballpark and the car would start and idle again.