Towing help- moving tomorrow!

[Andy_]

Hi guys its been a while !
Ive rented a garage to store the car, more space, easier to work in it there and its pretty cheap.

Ive got someone coming at 9am to tow the car 0.5 miles, down a hill for most of the journey, then up a slight incline for a few hundred meters. As in tow the car with a rope.

Ive just been out with the rope to find there is nowhere to attach it to at the front.

When youre putting it on a trailer, what do you attach the winch to?
Im looking at the chassis now, the anti-roll bar at the front seems a bad choice, all i can see is having the rope in a v,
Around the bottom of the swingarm, to tow vehicle, back to other swingarm (what the front spring sits on).

Has anyone got a better idea, for some reason i thought i had a towing point on the delorean, maybe previously wripped off?

Thanks for any help.

[Andy_]

68896

I may just hire a trailer.

The only option i can see is where ive put the 2 red lines. It doesnt seem a great option anyway.
Obviouly the front wheels arent meant to be the cars driving force, im guessing i could damage the frame front and maybe wrip a wheel off.

So if im putting a non-running delorean on a trailer, what do i attach the winch to? Ideally at the front so the louvres not fly up in the wind

[Josh]

There are two U shaped hooks up front. When winching I just grab one of them.

I would advise against flat towing.

[todd1561]

Definitely don't tow it from the sway bar, the control arms, or any part of the suspension really. There are dedicated tow hooks at the front and the back. The ones at the front are welded to the frame right under the front frame extension. I don't have a picture handy but it should be pretty obvious, they're just 2 loops.

But honestly, putting the thing on a roll back trailer would be your safest bet. Especially since you're going down a hill with no brakes on the rolling chassis.

[Mark D]

Use the tow loops in the front (Green Arrows). Do not use control arms (Red Arrows) or you will bend them.

https://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=68897&d=1662577672


If the front tow loops are broken or missing and you only need to pull the car a couple hundred feet, just pull the car backwards using the tow eyes at the rear.

https://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=68898&d=1662577685

[ssdelorean]

68896

I may just hire a trailer.

The only option i can see is where ive put the 2 red lines. It doesnt seem a great option anyway.
Obviouly the front wheels arent meant to be the cars driving force, im guessing i could damage the frame front and maybe wrip a wheel off.

So if im putting a non-running delorean on a trailer, what do i attach the winch to? Ideally at the front so the louvres not fly up in the wind

So have I been out of it for a while or is something just off with your picture? Are you making a limo delorean like Rich W?

[Helirich]

68896

I may just hire a trailer.

The only option i can see is where ive put the 2 red lines. It doesnt seem a great option anyway.
Obviouly the front wheels arent meant to be the cars driving force, im guessing i could damage the frame front and maybe wrip a wheel off.

So if im putting a non-running delorean on a trailer, what do i attach the winch to? Ideally at the front so the louvres not fly up in the wind

Is that what your towing? Or is that just a file photo you were using. Like the others said there should be a loop. I wouldn’t be afraid to tow 1/2 a mile with a rope as long as you trust the tow driver. Any chance you just coast down the hill and get the tow when you come to a stop?

[Andy_]

Is that what your towing? Or is that just a file photo you were using. Like the others said there should be a loop. I wouldn’t be afraid to tow 1/2 a mile with a rope as long as you trust the tow driver. Any chance you just coast down the hill and get the tow when you come to a stop?

Sorry should have been clearer.

Thats a full chassis photo i found on google.mines a full car, I was looking for something to attach to without wripping off the front lower piece below the bumper.
It would appear my tow hoops (the chain loop pieces) were not welded well and / or are missing.

Ive not touched the car for 4-5 years. It ran well then.

Now it will only run with the plug swap, wont rev, i thought if i tow it to the new garage i can fix it there, but
If i cant tow it and have to hire a trailer i may be better off just trying to get it running now and drive it there.
Its had 12L of esso premium plus, a 5% e10, oils good and sparks strong. Time to invest in a fuel pressure tester kit probably. I’ll check the hoses tomorrow.
Any tips, i need it to run for 5 minutes.

[David T]

Towing with a rope should be a last resort. You can't stop without having it hit the tow vehicle and you can't tow downhill. The only way to do it is if the brakes work and someone steers the car. Because of all of the damage you could do it is a lot safer to have it flat-bedded. Especially if you don't have any insurance or plates on it.

[r00b]

Sounds like you should use a flat bed tow truck to move the car. You can use the rear tow hooks if your fronts are gone and load it on backward. If you're not going far or fast you shouldn't have to worry about the louvers. I wouldn't just pull it with another car, if you absolutely had to I guess you could pull it backwards with someone in the car to use the break and go very slow.

[Helirich]

Ummm, of course you have someone in the car steering and braking. You guys had to be joking about towing with a rope and no one in the car.

[Andy_]

Ive decided to drive it there, just need a running engine, brake lights, turn signals.
And maybe brakes.

Ive ordered a new accumulator, i knew it was dying a few years ago.

Brake lights work, ive got rear turn signals both sides, but nothing at the front.
Is the main connector for the front lights by the fuel pump or behind the drivers side headlight?
Cant remember and the diagrams arent that detailed, maybe i missed it in the workshop manual.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Ive decided to drive it there, just need a running engine, brake lights, turn signals.
And maybe brakes.

Ive ordered a new accumulator, i knew it was dying a few years ago.

Brake lights work, ive got rear turn signals both sides, but nothing at the front.
Is the main connector for the front lights by the fuel pump or behind the drivers side headlight?
Cant remember and the diagrams arent that detailed, maybe i missed it in the workshop manual.

Front connectors are in the washer bottle area. Not sure if you could get at them removing the drivers side headlight. Check your bulbs first but that would not stop me driving it temporarily.

[Rich W]

So have I been out of it for a while or is something just off with your picture? Are you making a limo delorean like Rich W?

Good eye, Shannon. That is indeed a photo of the D Limo frame
after the initial build up with the suspension and wheels installed.

I guess that was the first reference photo that Andy had handy.

As far as I know, that frame and chassis is still under my D Limo.
(I better check my storage)

[Helirich]

Ive decided to drive it there, just need a running engine, brake lights, turn signals.
And maybe brakes.

Ive ordered a new accumulator, i knew it was dying a few years ago.

Brake lights work, ive got rear turn signals both sides, but nothing at the front.
Is the main connector for the front lights by the fuel pump or behind the drivers side headlight?
Cant remember and the diagrams arent that detailed, maybe i missed it in the workshop manual.

A 1/2 mile? I would say you need a running engine and brakes. You don’t even need a good running engine and brakes. (You can have someone escort you and don’t drive fast)

[Andy_]

So iÂ’m checking everything.
Fuel pressures are good.
Reasonable spark. So started checking with the c1 / c2 ignition and fuel system diagnostic charts in the “technical information manual”.

Coil voltages were a bit low, so started checking the coil and ballast resistor wiring. I think i have a wiring problem with the by-pass relay.

I made a collage of the different references i could find, none of them give a complete picture or make sense to me.
69004

There are 2 blue/yellow UY wires on the relay connector, pins 85 and 87.
Right now 85 goes through the yellow bulkhead connector, pin1, to the starter.

My ballast resistor has 2 wires connected on the right. Top right is white. Bottom right is white/yellow, going to + on coil. I cant work out which wire goes on the left of the ballast resistor, or where the other bypass relay wires go.
Any help hugely appreciated.

[Andy_]

So…
Top left diagram, is the black square at the bottom with 3 wires coming from it, is the black bit the wiring harness?
If so I have those wires correctly installed.

On the relay, black goes to earth, white goes to top right of resistor.

The 2 blue / yellow wires, im still unsure of.
I did a continuity test on the blue / yellow wire from the starter to all 3 blue/ yellows at the relay / ballast area and found one with continuity, but now im wondering if thats feeding back through a circuit / terminal somewhere else, as the wire in the diagram has a diode inline, which may break continuity.

If all that sounds about right, then i just need someone to confirm which way around the 2 blue/yellows go. Does bypass relay 85 go to top left of ballast, and 87 go to the starter,
Or is it the other way around please????

[Ron]

Hey Andy,
(I didn't reply before because you don't have a drawing to go with the terminal numbers you call out...)

Yes, the black bit is the harness.
There is no diode (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.shutterstock.com%2Fimage-vector%2Felectrical-symbol-diode-physics-2077566967&psig=AOvVaw06XYz9UwGq1bZob2pOfHC4&ust=1664071057455000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAgQjRxqFwoTCPjF9P-prPoCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD) in the UY wire. That symbol is for an inline connector (probably at the bulkhead).

The Blue/Yellow (UY) wire from the starter solenoid gets 12V when the starter is engaged.
If the Black (B) wire to the relay is grounded and you hook the correct BU wire from the starter solenoid to the correct terminal, the relay will engage (you can see/hear it click) and the other BU wire will then get 12. So, try picking a BU wire and if it makes the solenoid engage, the other one goes to the left side of the ballast resister....

You should have 3 wires on the right, as in the 1st diagram.
(The WY wire on the left should be marked "WY" at both ends in the drawing (not "W" at the end that goes in to the harness).

[Andy_]

Thanks ron / dave m, i really do appreciate it.
Had an hour free today so replaced the accumulator..
The “fixing” i did of the relay / ballast yesterday has stopped the fuel pump and starter from running.
Hopefully can trace the wires back tomorrow!

[Andy_]

Car will only start with the plug swap. Runs strong 10-20 seconds, then you can hear it going to die,
As soon as i disconnect the swapped plug, and / or plug the 2 plugs back in it dies.
Seems to run better with csv and cpr unplugged from electrics.

If i try to start with plugs all in after a plug swap, it will run for a couple of seconds at most, touching the throttle to “help” it stay running immediately kills it.
Fuel pressure is showing 4.5 bar

Tried the rpm relay lead swap, could hear the pump running. Will only start this way with plug swap, runs worse than just plug swap.

Note: Im not hearing the frequency valve buzz when i turn on the ignition.
Im not noticing anything else unusual. Fuel pump wouldnt run earlier as i had unplugged the main loom by the washer reservoir, and reconnecting it did not actually reconnect it. Unplugged /plugged it a few times and the pump runs. Its in a very awkward place.

Just replaced accumulator, pressure holds for longer.
Pressure plate has resistance.
All fuses checked.
All connectors checked and cleaned.

Any advice welcome. Im thinking next step is check all flow from injectors. Ive gone through the 4 pages of tests to see why it wont start. I havent tested the tts. Didnt want coolant everywhere.

[David T]

Did the motor ever run right? If not we can assume it is running very lean if runs OK with the plug swap. That means you have a large air leak. Is there a plug over the mixture screw?

[Andy_]

It was great up to 3 years ago when i parked it in the garage.
Ive also replaced the fuel. Smelt like laquer.
Like i said ive done the basic 4 pages of
Why wont my car start - from the delorean tech manual.

Checked all the vacuum hoses as ive had them leak before but look fine. Theyre fine.
I did have to plug swap sometimes to get it running. Then turn off engine, put plugs back, then it would start normally and keep going.

[Andy_]

Did the motor ever run right? If not we can assume it is running very lean if runs OK with the plug swap. That means you have a large air leak. Is there a plug over the mixture screw?

Theres the lid of a small superglue tube jammed in there. Ive got a can of starting spray somewhere, when i find it i’ll check for leaks.

Ive dug out the dwell, timing gun etc out of the shed but cant check anything until it runs. Could the fuel pressure tester ive left connected be screwing with something??

I know pressures holding now so may as well remove it i suppose.

[Ron]

Could the fuel pressure tester ive left connected be screwing with something??
Yes, if it is set to check primary pressure...

[Andy_]

Since last posting, i had a couple of hours spare, replaced a leaky injector hose, all injector boots and clips, and started at the beginning doing a mixture base set.

Here is a link to the music the car made.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0PGrq0zwIwRca

Hopefully the video works. Apologies for the swearing.

Ps it does run now, but has a high idle.
I got my dwell tester out, but cant work out how to set it up.
Its a gunson sparktune, the manual is here;
https://docs.rs-online.com/fe19/0900766b800290e5.pdf

How do i calibrate it if the car doesnt have a cable between the distributor and coil that isnt a ht lead??
This bit here;
69061

And ps enjoy the fuel distributor song!

[Rich]

You say the engine runs but it has a high-idle situation. And that weird noise.

Noise source: I have no idea what the source of the noise is. You say it's from the FD, which indicates a need for a teardown/rebuild or replacement of the FD, especially after not running for 3 years. But not until you know it's from the FD. You can use a section of hose or tubing and your ear to verify which component the noise is coming from. Or wave your phone around the engine bay while recording a video while it's making the noise, then listen while watching the video.

Dwell meter: Your particular dwell meter may work if you connect the signal lead the same way as you would connect any other dwell meter to a PRV engine (per video link below), which allows the engine to be running. You would also need to verify which dwell angle cylinder count multiplier to use per top of p.8.

The meter most owners use is one like this (https://media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2020/10/6/actron_cp7605_dwelltachometerv_1601958945_a077ee10 .jpg). These meters come up on eBay all the time. You use it by following the guidance in Chris Miles' tech video here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKT_i82VtIo), as you may know.

First: Get the high-idle situation sorted out before you spend time on the fine mixture adjustment with any dwell meter since that's done with the engine running at specified idle.




Ps it does run now, but has a high idle.
I got my dwell tester out, but cant work out how to set it up.
Its a gunson sparktune, the manual is here;
https://docs.rs-online.com/fe19/0900766b800290e5.pdf

How do i calibrate it if the car doesnt have a cable between the distributor and coil that isnt a ht lead??
This bit here;
69061

And ps enjoy the fuel distributor song!

[Andy_]

Unfortunately theres none of those dwell actron meters available in europe at all, and the usa import charges are crazy high right now.

Ive been checking the idle circuit.
Operation of idle motor is good (tested with 12v on center pin, touch earth to 1 of the outside pins, moves fast in both directions.
Checked idle cpu voltages and earths.
On idle cpu, 4pin connector, from black/yellow wire to black/grey, i was getting 18k ohms, after cleaning the bulkhead connector got it down to 16.2, this is with engine cold. Should be between 8 and 12???
Is that a dying thermistor??? Oxidised connector on thermistors???

AND
Using voltmeter, red connected to battery +, black to black/green on the same idle cpu connector, getting 12v no matter if the throtte plates pressed or not. Should be 0 when pressed ???

On idle cpu 5 pin connector, black is a good earth and 12v on green wire with ignition on (key at run, position 2).

Idle switch adjustment has stabilised the rpm a bit. Definitely being pressed. Before adjusting the switch, by pushing the throttle bolt onto the switch, the engine rpm changed.
Fuse 1 is fine.
Swapped rpm relay, no change.
Fv definitely buzzing.
No vac leaks.
Diode under idle cpu connected.
Idle motor pipe / seal into the valley is fitted well, checked it with a camera scope. Did have to remove it to get the idle motor out to test it.
Although the dwell meter is not scaled correctly, pressing the full throttle muicroswitch drops the dwell by 10.

[David T]

OK, you said it did run good but was stored and the fuel went bad. One possibility is the fuel plunger inside the mixture unit is stuck. That would make it run very rich not lean though. One sign of a stuck plunger is the muffler gets red hot in the middle on the front side. Very easy to notice. The other possibility is rubber seals, hoses, and parts shrank, cracked, or just got hard and now leak allowing air to get in and lean out the mixture. A quick check, do the fuel injectors fit snugly into the tubes or are they just sliding in and out?

[Rich]

Unfortunately theres none of those dwell actron meters available in europe at all, and the usa import charges are crazy high right now.

This is only about finding a meter there for the test. After you solve the idle issue.

You could see whether any digital VOM you already own is capable of dwell readings like this one (https://www.altecautomotive.co.uk/automotive-digital-multimeter-with-dwell--tachometer--temperature-ranges--br---altmm-d03145-06-4991-p.asp) is. Many of them are. Check the setting options on the VOM's selector dial. If it isn't capable then you can buy or borrow one that is. The downside with any digital VOM/dwell tool for this test is that its readout is hard to decipher. The dwell value fluctuates quickly/widely during the test making it tricky to determine the midpoint of the dwell swings.

Or, as you hoped earlier, you may find the old dwell meter you already have will work. At least it will give you an analog reading like the Actron will, assuming it works at all.

With either meter hook the signal wire from the dwell meter (not the + or - power wires) to the car's diagnostic wire/terminal. You don't disable the ignition circuit for this test.

For more info about how to set up and run the mixture adjustment - after you get the idle down where it belongs - refer to this thread on the topic (https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?12909-How-To-Set-CO-Dwell&highlight=dwell) plus the Chris Miles video. Pay attention to the cylinder count setting on whatever meter you use in order to get an accurate reading.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I use a SnapOn digital dwell meter and have no problems setting the dwell. Now maybe some digital meters don't work as good. This meter also has a duty cycle range.

If you use a volt meter that has duty cycle, remember the readings you get will be backwards from dwell. These meters use the high values where as dwell uses low values to compute.

[Andy_]

Things are not getting better.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sKAMfGF4bPIFlbUNsLgrl5ntGxm8PzKT/view?usp=drivesdk

https://share.icloud.com/photos/080S_i0Rl1eFKCgtMCswJ8xgw
https://share.icloud.com/photos/080S_i0Rl1eFKCgtMCswJ8xgw

1 of the links should work.1 is a url, the other an embedded video.
The state of the switch is terrifying. (Thermal vacuum switch in the valley).
Obviously heads coming off, for the first time in about 15 years.
Got service parts, a new switch, new bolts, and seals, hoses, copper washers, anything else???
Is there a “if youre going this far you might as well do this as well.”
Ps auto so no clutch.

[Andy_]

Thanks for your help everybody.

Valley of death / whatever had coolant and sand in it.
Replaced all seals / bolts with stainless / copper washers etc.
ht leads, plugs, soldered cable joins, and exactly the same.

Swapped the o2 sensor, which has less than 500 miles on it….
Suddenly idling at 800.

At least i got to do some cleaning!

[David T]

Thanks for your help everybody.

Valley of death / whatever had coolant and sand in it.
Replaced all seals / bolts with stainless / copper washers etc.
ht leads, plugs, soldered cable joins, and exactly the same.

Swapped the o2 sensor, which has less than 500 miles on it….
Suddenly idling at 800.

At least i got to do some cleaning!

That sand is what remains after you boil anti-freeze. It has been leaking for a long time, not unusual. You can have a very small leak and never notice it, the deep valleys can hold a lot of coolant. You also usually find a bunch of copper seals, acorns, leaves, etc, too.