No first gear when cold

[Michael]

OK, my car will not pull out in first when the fluid is cold. It will pull out in second gear....shifts normally to third. Once or twice around the neighborhood and it shifts fine. Fluid level is normal, clean, filter is fairly new but I'm not dropping the pan because like I said...once warmed up, it shifts fine.

Computer is 15 years old but is a newer design.

[Ron]

I'd try the test HERE (https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?350-Automatic-Transmission-Governor&p=26804&viewfull=1#post26804) to see what the computer is telling it to do first...

[David T]

I second hooking up a light box to see what the shift computer, aka governor, is telling the transmission what gear to be in. Refer the table in the Workshop Manual, it will tell you what lights should be on for each gear. There was a car that would not shift correctly. The cause turned out to be a blob of silicone stuck in one of the solenoids in the valve body. It was not an intermittent problem but I mention it because not every problem is listed in the manual. Sometimes you must try to figure them out. Anyway, using the light box is a good place to start. Could just be a dirty electrical connection somewhere and once it gets a little warm or some vibration, it works. Another thing you can do is a careful visual inspection of the wiring harness. It could have gotten burned or caught up somewhere. While you are checking the harness make sure the vacuum line is hooked up. I have seen the hoses get rock hard and crack or fall off. When you get a problem with the automatic transmission my first advice is to do ALL of the on-car checks listed in the manual. Often just by going over the whole system you stumble on the problem or you take care of anything that is neglected like the level in the final drive or a split C/V boot that you didn't know you had.

[Jonathan]

Check the fuse for the shift computer too. Maybe the contacts are not great, but improve enough to function ok once warmed up a little. Fuse #13. 10 Amp.

[Michael]

Thanks all! I will mess with it some this weekend.

[David T]

It wouldn't be the fuse. If there was a problem with the fuse all you would have is 3rd gear. You would not have ANY shifts when cold.

[Michael]

It may have been fluid level. I put about 1/2 quart in it(leaks on the dipstick tube seal that I just live with). The fluid was just so clean on the stick I couldn't read it right. I added a little and drove it and almost immediately it started shifting into first. I then added about 1/2 quart more (never slipped in gear mind you) and I could see it now full warm on the stick. Took it on a date last night and she performed perfectly.

I will drive it cold next chance I get and see where I stand.

[82DMC12]

Took it on a date last night and she performed perfectly.



What did, the car or the girl?

[David T]

In your first post you said the level was "normal" so I assumed the problem was not due to low fluid level. A low fluid level (just low enough so once it gets warm and expands you are OK) can certainly cause shifting problems. Perform the fluid level check as per the Workshop Manual and fix any leaks. Make sure you check the level when the car is level. I would still go over all of the external on-car checks and adjustments anyway.

[Michael]

In your first post you said the level was "normal" so I assumed the problem was not due to low fluid level. A low fluid level (just low enough so once it gets warm and expands you are OK) can certainly cause shifting problems. Perform the fluid level check as per the Workshop Manual and fix any leaks. Make sure you check the level when the car is level. I would still go over all of the external on-car checks and adjustments anyway.

I change the fluid every 6k miles, it was so clean I didn't realize it was a tad low because I thought it was reddish but once I added fluid, it was obviously red on the stick. Again, I haven't driven it cold yet so I don't know for sure if it is fixed. Probably will get a chance tomorrow night or Saturday.

[Ron]

If the fluid level is low, it would have a problem with more than 1st gear cold. First sign would be slipping, especially when pulling off. A half quart low might cause the fluid to get too hot, but not slipping or not engaging the correct gear(s).

If it still has problems and it passes the light tests, try putting the selector in 1st and see if it has engine braking/hold.
Keep in mind that D clutch packs are VERY unforgiving if you load them up in too high of a gear.

[Michael]

After bringing the fluid level up,, it seems to be shifting correctly now. Just took it out cold and it's shifting into and pulling out in first and shifting perfectly. It still could be an intermittent problem but if it does return, at least it's most likely a shift computer or electronic issue and not a mechanical trans issue.

[Ron]

After bringing the fluid level up,, it seems to be shifting correctly now. Just took it out cold and it's shifting into and pulling out in first and shifting perfectly. It still could be an intermittent problem but if it does return, at least it's most likely a shift computer or electronic issue and not a mechanical trans issue.That's good news!
Yeah, it could have been a lot of things: shift computer, multi-function switch, solenoid, debris, seal, etc....
Hopefully it will not show up again when the weather gets real cold.

[Michael]

It's showed up again! No surprise the weather turned cold. So when it's ice cold...it shifts normal. When it's "lukewarm" it has no first, then when it's warm it shifts perfect, and when the selector is in 1, holds first as long as I want it to. PS when it's acting up selecting low gear at the shifter does nothing..it's just second gear as well.

Let it sit for an hour or 2, and it doesn't like to be in first (will shift to second early, back to first, back to second) and after a very short time, shifts normally again.

At this stage I thinking either shift computer or solenoid. I haven't dropped the pan yet but I will try to do so next week and do a visual inspection of the valve body, solenoids, fluid, and filter and do a service. I will also check the vacuum lines and electric wires for damage.

With the lights hooked up, could I just start the car, put the selector in "1" and see if both lights are on or do the wheels have to spin? I mean it's already going to be on a lift but no load may make the shift very early if I select D

Could I just forego the lights all together by having the pan dropped, a friend in the car turn the ignition on, select Low gear and visually watch(feel) both solenoids engage or does the car have to be running?

[Michael]

I'm overthinking this...before I do anything else, I guess I could just use LONG wires and feed the lights into the driver cabin and drive it. Don't know why I didn't think of that to begin with.

[mhanch]

I was getting all kinds of wonky shifting because my WOT microswitch was stuck Closed. (made it run rich). IF you havent, you might unplug that to confirm it's not a suspect.

Good Luck

[Michael]

I was getting all kinds of wonky shifting because my WOT microswitch was stuck Closed. (made it run rich). IF you havent, you might unplug that to confirm it's not a suspect.

Good Luck

Thanks. I checked the function of both the kickdown and WOT but not the continuity.

[Ron]

I'm overthinking this...before I do anything else, I guess I could just use LONG wires and feed the lights into the driver cabin and drive it. Don't know why I didn't think of that to begin with.That's because you must of missed post 26 (https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?350-Automatic-Transmission-Governor&p=260505&viewfull=1#post260505) in the link I posted above. :deviltail:

Make sure that the bulbs have one lead in common fed with 12V...they should be controlled by ground.

[Michael]

That's because you must of missed post 26 (https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?350-Automatic-Transmission-Governor&p=260505&viewfull=1#post260505) in the link I posted above. :deviltail:

Make sure that the bulbs have one lead in common fed with 12V...they should be controlled by ground.

I suck

[Ron]

:cheers1:

[Michael]

So I finally got the car to start acting up again. I attached my lights and sure enough one of the solenoids is not getting constant signal. With just the ignition on, one of my lights goes on and off intermittently. I switched bulbs around to rule out the possibility of a bad bulb or connection, I then started the car, backed out of the driveway and waited for both lights to come on(first gear)...I pulled back in slowly and as soon as the light went out, the car shifted into second. I stopped, waited for first again and got back in the garage.

I assume this means I need a new shift governor? I haven't checked wiring yet but when I get it on a lift to remove the governor, I guess a visual inspection will follow and if I can't determine a cause, I will ship it off to be rebuilt.
It's a new computer from 2006...don't know if they were rebuilding them then or not.

[Ron]

Probably an easy fix...the GCs are notorious for having bad solder joints.

[David T]

Probably an easy fix...the GCs are notorious for having bad solder joints.

Or an bad connection somewhere. Physically inspect every inch of the wiring harness to make sure it is not heat-damaged. Check the plugs. It can very well be a bad solder joint on the PCB. Not a bad transistor, they don't fail intermittently.

[AugustneverEnds]

Maybe it's worth checking the bulkhead connectors, seems like the intermittent nature of your problem might be indicating a bad connection. On my car those pins have become very loose and number one priority to fix this winter.

[mhanch]

I just had to clean all my bulkhead connectors to fix a starting issue. They were corroded all over with a few of them really bad, and at least one that was not clicking properly. The red one is the Transmission I think, and I had a connector in there that was awful (white powdery corrosion) scrubbed them all shiny and used Deoxit on all the pins. Put it all back together and everything came back to life. Had to push one pin from behind to get a positive connection.

[Michael]

Thanks for all the advice. I checked my bulkhead but honestly, I didn't think that was the problem:

69255

Even when moving all the wires while watching the lights, nothing changed. Ordered a new governor and will probably install it next week.

[DMCMW Dave]

It's a new computer from 2006...don't know if they were rebuilding them then or not.

I don't believe the new digital ones were in production until about 2008. It's likely an original board that's been rebuilt.

[Jonathan]

I don't believe the new digital ones were in production until about 2008. It's likely an original board that's been rebuilt.

Dave... remind me if there is a way to tell from the outside of the governor what vintage the insides are? I think we talked about this a while back as I got mine from you in March of 2010 and I thought that the labelling on the outside of it gave away what was on the inside. Can't remember details though.

[mhanch]

Thanks for all the advice. I checked my bulkhead but honestly, I didn't think that was the problem:

69255

Even when moving all the wires while watching the lights, nothing changed. Ordered a new governor and will probably install it next week.

Those connectors are way too clean. Scary. :)

[DMCMW Dave]

Dave... remind me if there is a way to tell from the outside of the governor what vintage the insides are? I think we talked about this a while back as I got mine from you in March of 2010 and I thought that the labelling on the outside of it gave away what was on the inside. Can't remember details though.

Not easily, but you can pop the small aluminum cover off and it's really obvious when you can look inside. The original has the colored wires soldered to the circuit boards, the replacement uses screw terminals. It is also a lot more modern looking circuit board.

[Michael]

With all the talk about auto trans governors lately, I needed to update this thread for future searches.

Yes, it was the governor. I had some rebuild issues and had to change it out more than once, but it's been perfect now for the last few years.

FWIW, I used a PJ Grady rebuild as he reuses the original boards. The DMCH and Ed Uding solid state computers (from what I have read) have a short lifespan.

[Bitsyncmaster]

With all the talk about auto trans governors lately, I needed to update this thread for future searches.

Yes, it was the governor. I had some rebuild issues and had to change it out more than once, but it's been perfect now for the last few years.

FWIW, I used a PJ Grady rebuild as he reuses the original boards. The DMCH and Ed Uding solid state computers (from what I have read) have a short lifespan.

You would need to use components rated above the normal 85 deg.C (industrial) rating. Most micros offered extended temp components rated to 125 deg.C

[David T]

The automotive environment is a harsh environment for electronics. Varying voltages, spikes, transients, intermittents, heat, vibration, wide temperature swings, moisture, just to name a few of the factors to contend with. It takes a more "robust" design with better, more expensive components to handle it and they are more expensive. Typically you do not see the sensitive components attached directly to the drivetrain. The sensitive parts (an ECU for instance) are typically mounted in a more controlled location like the passenger compartment. If I were to redesign the shift computer I would cable the electronics so they were either on the firewall or maybe inside next to the other modules behind the driver. I too had problems with my shift computer (way before there was a digital option!) so I resoldered all of the connections and replaced the capacitors. Back then you could go to a nearby Radio Shack and get what you needed. Anyway, it has been working fine. I did add a heat sink to the aluminum cover and made sure all of the cables are securely strap-tied away form the exhaust pipes. I also got a heat shield from PJ Grady for the cross/over pipe and he also sold a heat sink of fins you can wrap over the oil cooler.

[Michael]

Good grief I just wanted to put a conclusion to this thread for future searches. I should have known I was just offering yet another platform for those who just love to demonstrate their mouth diarrhea to have at it. Just close this MF already.

[Timeless]

Good grief I just wanted to put a conclusion to this thread for future searches. I should have known I was just offering yet another platform for those who just love to demonstrate their mouth diarrhea to have at it. Just close this MF already.
Something is not right with his brain. :mallet: