Tune Up Time - Plus a lot of other "while I'm there" stuff

[Chris 16409]

So my car hasn't had a tune up for a while. It was last done around 98,000 miles and now I have around 116,000 miles on the car. It's been a daily driver for the past two years, so I though it was a good time to tackle this job.

I decided I was going to remove the intake manifold to install the wires, cap, rotor, and plugs. I then started to think about all the things I could do if the intake manifold was was off. It so happens that my water pump has developed a small leak, so that would be a recommended repair. Then I thought, "let's go all out". I'm pretty sure that my fuel injectors haven't been replaced, but I know they have been cleaned. Sometimes the car idles rough on occasional startups, then smooths out. At over 100,000 miles, I think they're at the end of their lifespan. Add injectors to the list, and throw in a new set of fuel lines for good measure. I'm still running the originals, and I'd like some peace of mind. Those are the major parts I'm getting, but there's quite a few of other odds and ends as well.


For the tune up itself, I decided to go with DPNW's kit, which includes a set of silicone wires, and all the other necessary parts (even the o-rings and gaskets).

http://www.delorean-parts.com/delorean-parts-images/wires-blue.JPG
http://www.delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K1005DP-B&Category_Code=9200


For the water pump, I found a great bargain at RockAuto. The DeLorean water pump crosses over to a 1980 Volvo 264GLE pump. It is a bolt on pulley style pump, so I'm going to source a bolt on pulley from Hervey.

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.rockauto.c om%2FBeckArnley%2F1311851.jpg&imagekey=868806-0&width=450
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1288166,parttype,2208

http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/water-pump-pulley-4bolt.jpg

I bought the BECK/ARNLEY pump, It's only $52.79 on closeout. It actually says it's made in Italy. That's where Houston is getting their pumps sourced as well. BECK/ARNLEY is just a parts distributor that sells many OEM parts. You'll see what I mean when I talk about the injectors.


For the new fuel injectors, I also turned to RockAuto. The DeLorean fuel injector crosses over to a 1983-85 Volvo 760GLE. The Bosch part number is 0437502022. Again, I went with part provided by BECK/ARNLEY.

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.rockauto.c om%2FBeckArnley%2FBA1580568-1.jpg&imagekey=573408-0&width=450
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1288559,parttype,6224

When I bought the parts, RockAuto had 7 new BECK/ARNLEY injectors on close out for $24 a piece. That was a deal way too good to pass up, so I bough them. I kind of took a gamble, but I surmised that they were actually just Bosch parts. Low and behold, when the injectors arrived, they came with a BECK/ARNLEY box and part number, but the injectors themselves, had the Bosch 0437502022 number. "Made in Germany" was also stamped into the side. The "close out" stock now appears to be gone, but you can still order the Bosch injector at a small savings compared to the other vendors.


For the fuel lines, I'm going to go with the set that Martin sells. I really like his products, I've already installed his hoses for the fuel pump.

http://www.delorean.co.uk/parts/hosefitting.jpg
http://www.delorean.co.uk/parts.html

His set includes all new swaged on banjo fittings, along with new banjo bolts and high quality copper washers. I think they are worth the extra cost, and I'm not that fond of the stainless braided ones.

I'll have more details soon.

[WelmoedJ]

For the fuel lines: I don't like the stainless look either.
When I bought my set from Hervey's I had them covered in shrink wrap.
Look cool and they stay as thin as possible.

Hervey's set also has the new banjo's fixed to the lines.

Go and see for yourself if it's worth buying from him as you already are going to order his pulley.

Welmoed.

[sean]

Before and after pics!

[David T]

As long as you are going "all out" here are a few more are things you can do:
Compression test
Adjust valves
Replace the seals on the Y pipe
Replace all of the hoses under the intake manifold
Replace the idler bearings
Replace the belts
Replace the O2 sensor and reset the Lambda counter
Check for vacuum leaks (you may need new injector seals)
Check base timing, mechanical and vacuum advance
Set the mixture screw
Replace air filter and fuel filter
Lubricate and adjust the throttle linkage
Replace thermostat and seal
Lubricate the front suspension and angle drive
Check (or change) the oil in the transmission
Flush and bleed the brakes and clutch
Load test the battery
As you can see there are a LOT of things you *can* do. A lot depends on how the car was running, when certain work was done or parts replaced, how much time and money you have, and your skill level. For my part I prefer to patronize the Delorean vendors when I can unless I need something in a hurry and can get it locally. In many cases the cost works out about even or less when you consider sales tax.
David Teitelbaum

[Farrar]

If you haven't already done so, you could use this opportunity to replace all of your vacuum hoses with their silicone counterparts.

Just a suggestion.

Farrar

[Chris 16409]

If you haven't already done so, you could use this opportunity to replace all of your vacuum hoses with their silicone counterparts.

Farrar

I do have Hervey's silicone vacuum hoses. I wasn't able to install the ones in valley, so once the intake is off I can finally install thoes.

[Chris 16409]

Thanks for the check list David!


Compression test
Adjust valves
Replace the seals on the Y pipe (on order)
Replace all of the hoses under the intake manifold (getting silicone hoses)
Replace the idler bearings
Replace the belts (done)
Replace the O2 sensor and (was thinking about a new one)
you may need new injector seals (on order)
Check base timing, mechanical and vacuum advance
Set the mixture screw
Replace air filter and fuel filter (Have K&N air filter - I'll order a fuel filter
Lubricate and adjust the throttle linkage
Replace thermostat and seal (on order)
Lubricate the front suspension and angle drive (have Martin's sealed angle drive)
Check (or change) the oil in the transmission (done)
Flush and bleed the brakes and clutch. (done)
Load test the battery

[Chris 16409]

I just got the silicone hoses for the back of the water pump from Grady. Something unrelated to all my tune up parts is, the one piece speedometer cable. I also got that from Grady. I was hopping that this cable would eliminate the needle bounce at the lower end, and it seems to have. Oh, I might as well show one of the new fuel injectors I got from RockAuto. In my next update, I'll post some pictures of what you get in Toby's tune up kit.

[TTait]

Whether you like the look of the braided stainless lines or not, they are THIN. You get so much more room when dealing with plugs and wires etc that I highly recommend them. And as Welmoed points out, its easy to get them looking black, or red, or blue green or yellow - its just shrink wrap.

If you do the thermostat, get the bleeder too (including the one for the front).

While the intake is off check your heater control valve.

Oh - and the water filter/screen - its a pain to get to unless the intake is off.

While the coolant is drained put in a new otterstat and seal.

No way do you want to install new injectors without new rubber boots on them - they are cheap.

Clean and lube the idle speed motor too while its off the car.

Don't forget anti sieze on the bolts.

Screen in the WUR and o rings in the CPR valve on the fuel distributer

Cold air intake is available at many parts stores (got one at pep boys) and amazon has a good price on the K&N.

Did I get you on the water filter? heh... Had to try.

G'night Chris...

[Chris 16409]

If you do the thermostat, get the bleeder too. (Bought Toby's Complete Bleeder Kit)

While the intake is off check your heater control valve. (Changed that recently)

Oh - and the water filter/screen - its a pain to get to unless the intake is off. (Had to think twice about that!)

While the coolant is drained put in a new otterstat and seal. (Have Toby's Adjustable Fan Switch)

No way do you want to install new injectors without new rubber boots on them - they are cheap. (On order from Hervey)

Clean and lube the idle speed motor too while its off the car. (How do you do this?)

Don't forget anti sieze on the bolts. (Check - Bought some copper Anti seize)

Screen in the WUR and o rings in the CPR valve on the fuel distributer (Where's the screen?)

Cold air intake and K&N. (Check & Check)

[TTait]

[QUOTE=Chris 16409;25846]
(Have Toby's Adjustable Fan Switch) I got one too, but I could never get it to install without leaking, finally gave up on it.

Clean and lube the idle speed motor too while its off the car. (How do you do this?)

I never have, but I've seen some posts on it... I think you use carb cleaner, work the flap back and forteh - then a light oil? Do a quick search to find better details...

Screen in the WUR and o rings in the CPR valve on the fuel distributer (Where's the screen?)

Again - I never have - but I know Welmoed knows... Hey Welmoed, Kan ik je helpen?

Tom

[WelmoedJ]

[QUOTE=Chris 16409;25846]
(Have Toby's Adjustable Fan Switch) I got one too, but I could never get it to install without leaking, finally gave up on it.

Clean and lube the idle speed motor too while its off the car. (How do you do this?)

I never have, but I've seen some posts on it... I think you use carb cleaner, work the flap back and forteh - then a light oil? Do a quick search to find better details...

Screen in the WUR and o rings in the CPR valve on the fuel distributer (Where's the screen?)

Again - I never have - but I know Welmoed knows... Hey Welmoed, Kan ik je helpen?

Tom

CPR screen:
The screen is in the CPR's body connection to the fuel line (the one with the big banjo bolt).

BTW: I guess your Dutch translation should read "Kun je mij helpen" since you refer to me for help to somebody else. The way you put it is asking me if I need help.
If needed I of course accept any help, and if I can help I will :)

ISM:
I indeed had my ISM off of the car to see if it was working properly.
I used - as you guessed - carb cleaner, a small screwdriver to carefully make it turn to max (closed) and used battery power to get it to open.
Used some motor oil too.
It's still working perfectly.

Adjustable fan switch:
That one differs quite a lot from what I use. I have the adjustable Revotec (British made) otterstat.
The Revotec otterstat comes with a piece of pipe that has the same diameter as the original DMC piping.
Since the original otterstat is no longer of use, I removed that piece of pipe and used a new piece as a go-between. Otherwise you have a lot of pieces of hose and pipe which make the total length a bit unstable.
It's now this way (after cutting off the pipe to the front, close to the bend):
Front Pipe - hose - Revotec otterstat - hose - pipe - hose to water pump.

This part may not be of help to your current situation, hopefully the other answers will.

[Chris 16409]

Here's a picture of the spark plug wires I got in the tune up kit from DPNW:

6373

My fuel hoses from Martin are on their way and my order from Hervey should be shipping soon.

I do have a question regarding replacing the cap and rotor. When you replace the rotor, will everything be fine if you just install the new one in the exact spot you remove the old one?

[Bitsyncmaster]

I do have a question regarding replacing the cap and rotor. When you replace the rotor, will everything be fine if you just install the new one in the exact spot you remove the old one?

Yes, nothing should change. Timming will stay the same. It is keyed so as long as you put it into the key slot your fine.

[Chris 16409]

All of my parts have finally arrived, and decided to get this out of the way. I started about 5:00 PM on Thursday evening, and hope to be finished by this Sunday. I've already got the intake manifold off, and have started to clean up the valley. They good news was that there was no coolant in there. The hoses for the back of the water pump do defiantly need replacing. Here's some pictures of my tune up in progress.

6542
This is how bad the O-Rings for the W-pipe were


6546
Here are three of the spark plugs I pulled out. Didn't know what plugs I had in the car. They look pretty good still.

[David T]

As part of any good tune-up you should check the base timing and verify the functioning of the vacuum and mechanical advance. Other things you could do include a compression test of each cylinder and possibly a leak-down test. You definitely should do a cooling system pressure test BEFORE you reinstall the intake manifold. I would also include checking the valve adjustments and checking the mixture adjustment. You have to check all of the throttle adjustments since you will be taking that apart. Good time to clean and lubricate all of the throttle linkage.
David Teitelbaum

[Chris 16409]

While I was removing the y-pipe to service the o-ring underneath, one of the bolts snapped. What I'd call the bright side, the bolt snapped above the block (not very much though, see picture). I've got the bolt soaking overnight in penetrating fluid. Hopefully, I can take a pair of vice grips, grab on to the little nub, and twist the remnants out. Plan B, is my dad has a easy out and we'll try and remove it that way. Does anyone have any other suggestions? I've also attached a picture of my now "semi clean" valley.

[WelmoedJ]

While I was removing the y-pipe to service the o-ring underneath, one of the bolts snapped. What I'd call the bright side, the bolt snapped above the block (not very much though, see picture).

Bad luck!!
Perhaps you could use a file and make two flat sides on the bolt.
This gives you something to use an open-ended spanner on.
Or sufficient grip for a pair of tongs.

[Bitsyncmaster]

While I was removing the y-pipe to service the o-ring underneath, one of the bolts snapped. What I'd call the bright side, the bolt snapped above the block (not very much though, see picture). I've got the bolt soaking overnight in penetrating fluid. Hopefully, I can take a pair of vice grips, grab on to the little nub, and twist the remnants out. Plan B, is my dad has a easy out and we'll try and remove it that way. Does anyone have any other suggestions? I've also attached a picture of my now "semi clean" valley.

You probably will get it out after it soaks. Those bolts seem to rust above the threads. If you use an easy out do not use much force. You will be sorry if you break the hardened easy out in there. I would just try the vise grips back an forth very carfully.

[AdmiralSenn]

Be CAREFUL!

Go slow and easy, I would even give it a few DAYS of repeated applications of penetrating fluid. Try heating it up with a torch too - if you get it hot enough that the metal starts to expand, you may allow the fluid to seep in around the edges and do its job.

I had to deal with this problem and it was a NIGHTMARE. Do not try to just unscrew the bolt until you're certain it's possible. It WILL round off and leave you worse off than you were.

[Chris 16409]

Well, it looks like I'm going to have to tap a new hole. My dad tried an easy out and of course it broke off. Our plan is to drill a smaller hole slightly to the side of the original one. Then tap the hole, and see how close it matches its corresponding hole in the y-pipe. If need be, we can widen the y-pipe hole a little to get things to line up. Does this seem like a reasonable plan of attack? Also does anybody know the torque specs for the y-pipe bolts?

[AdmiralSenn]

That would probably work. On mine I actually drilled the bolt out and helicoiled the result to put a properly threaded hole in the right location. I think that's basically what you're going to end up doing no matter what.

No matter what you do, be very very careful. There is a coolant passage directly underneath that bolt. It is very easy to go too far in and create a leak. Ask me how I know...

Do consider that if you modify the Y pipe, if you ever have to replace it in the future you'll have to modify the replacement as well. Maybe not a big deal in this case but modifications that require me to modify brand new replacement parts are one of the things that make me curse Christine's PO.

[David T]

Never a good idea to try to move over and make a new tapped hole. You cannot know if there is enough materiel there to properly hold a bolt. I recommend you retry to remove the broken extractor. Try tapping with a small hammer and a pin punch. I have had some success drilling out broken taps, extractors, and drills. Get several small carbide drills such as used for drilling masonry and tile. You will be going through them quickly so you may want to try regrinding the tips. It will be difficult to stay on center so you may want to make up a drill jig. Go slow. It will take a LOT of patience. If you are not up to the task try to get someone who can help.

[dmc6960]

EXACT same thing happened to me back in 2001. Same bolt, broke off a little above the surface. Then Dad broke off a screw extractor. It took me 2 months of on and off drilling/grinding to get it out without destroying the original bolt hole. (Typically worked a few hours a week) In the end I ended up rethreading it slightly larger but at least it was center. If I knew of threaded inserts back then I would have gone that route to keep the original bolt size.

What eventually got me through the broken extractor was small diamond grinding bits for a dremel, and cobalt drill bits.

[Chris 16409]

I'm thinking about finding a good machine shop to do the repair. They can get out all the hardened steel bits out and fill in the hole by welding in new aluminum. Then they could drill a new hole and tap it.

This is an off the wall question, can you just weld the y-pipe to the block? Is there any reason why it needs to be removable? I mean you can change a water pump without removing it. I bought Hervey's stainless pipe for the back of the water pump. If I would have just left it alone, I wouldn't be in this mess.

[Ozzie]

EXACT same thing happened to me back in 2001. Same bolt, broke off a little above the surface. Then Dad broke off a screw extractor. It took me 2 months of on and off drilling/grinding to get it out without destroying the original bolt hole. (Typically worked a few hours a week) In the end I ended up rethreading it slightly larger but at least it was center. If I knew of threaded inserts back then I would have gone that route to keep the original bolt size.

What eventually got me through the broken extractor was small diamond grinding bits for a dremel, and cobalt drill bits.


Nearly the same story for me as above and yours, same bolt, same break, when I did my VOD work.

Dave (DMCMW) recommended those diamond grinding bits, that (several of them) eventually tore the rusted bolt apart enough to be able to remove it.

The trick here is to go slow, like Adam says put plenty of penetrating fluid, drill, repeat. I felt like a dentist drilling out a cavity, but after a few post work week nights it worked.

Good luck.

[Morpheus]

The same thing happened to me.

Only difference was the extractor broke off part of the block and almost ruined my day. I had to take a variety of grinding bits and my dremel to carefully grind out the extractor. Eventually, I had to slowly drill out the original hole (and thus the seized bolt), starting small and gradually working my way up to the right size. Re-tapped the hole, and the repair held. Luckily for me, there was enough material surrounding the break to hold the new bolt.

[1batt4u]

Same exact thing happened to me!! And same exact spot/bolt!!! I spent 6 hours, and a bunch of drill bits to take it out!

First I had to file it! Then took a thick pointy nail, put it in the center of the bolt and hit it with a hammer to make a mark for easier drilling.

Started with a small drill, moved to next size then another bigger size. They really kept getting worn out, so had to use my other set of drill bits. Then I went to buy a new set as well!!

After all that drilling, I had to re-thread!!

Good luck!!!

[Chris 16409]

This seems to be a widespread issue. I wonder if there is some underlying cause for failure at this particular bolt location. It seems everybody was able to do the repair themselves with enough time and patients. Unfortunately, I can't have my car down for a month or so. Additionally, I've got pieces of hardened drill bits in the hole, and my dad got the drill off center and chewed up some of the surrounding aluminum. With that, I'm going to take my car to a professional machine shop and have them repair it correctly. They'll grind out the bits of hardened metal, fill with aluminum, and re-tap the hole. They can do it much faster than if I attempt to make the repair. I post an update when I've got the car back. One thing my dad got right was having the intake manifold cleaned. It looks brand new!

[Chris 16409]

Today I towed my car to a local machine shop and had them make the repair. He did a great job, and he finished it the same day! It was rather pricy, but in the end worth it. I'll post up some pictures of the repair when I get a chance.

[r00b]

How did he do it?

[Chris 16409]

Here are some pictures of the y-pipe bolt hole repair.

[Chris 16409]

The DeLorean Gods are not being kind to me during this project. As I was putting the car back together, I needed to lift the heater control valve out of the way so I could reconnect some of the coolant hoses. As I was doing this, the plastic tube side of the heater control valve just broke. I was hardly even moving it. The worst part is that it was fairly new, I replaced it a couple years ago. I'll have to have a word with Hervey about it. I suppose I was lucky in that it happened in my garage and not on the road. I've attached a picture for reference. Does anybody know of what this part crosses over to so I can find it locally. I really want to get my car back on the road, and would prefer it if I didn't have to wait for shipping from a vendor.

[WelmoedJ]

Even though you said the Gods were not favouring you, they have!
Otherwise you wouldn't have found that shop.
They did a very nice job.
You're still a lucky guy :)

[Bitsyncmaster]

You can use some pipe for now but it's easy replacing it without the intake in the way.

[Chris 16409]

While the intake is off, I'm also going to convert to a later Volvo style Idle Speed Motor (Bosch #0280140520). I picked up a new one on eBay for a good price. As it is much smaller than the stock unit, I got creative to make the existing bracket fit. What do you guys think about the rubber I used to adapt the bracket to the new motor. It won't get hot enough to melt the rubber will it?

[Chris 16409]

Thanks to the guys over at the Eurotec forum for knowing the cross reference. Here's the part from amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Motorcraft-YG136-Heater-Valve/dp/B000C5DZOG/ref=dp_return_1?ie=UTF8&n=15684181&s=automotive

O'Reilly Auto Parts can have it in their store next day, but I'm going to AutoZone to see if they have it in stock.

[Bitsyncmaster]

While the intake is off, I'm also going to convert to a later Volvo style Idle Speed Motor (Bosch #0280140520). I picked up a new one on eBay for a good price. As it is much smaller than the stock unit, I got creative to make the existing bracket fit. What do you guys think about the rubber I used to adapt the bracket to the new motor. It won't get hot enough to melt the rubber will it?

It uses half the power of the OEM one but you don't have to worry about heat, my ECU shuts it down above 1500 RPM.

[Chris 16409]

Ever since I got Toby's adjustable fan switch, I've wanted to remove the original coolant pipe that houses the otterstat. Since I don't use the otterstat anymore, I think it's silly to run the risk of developing a leak at the otterstat seal. When I had my car at the machine shop, I took the coolant pipe with me and showed it to the shop owner. He said he could make me a new pipe, and agreed with me to get rid of the old one. It turned out great, and it was only $30. If you on DMCH's site, it's like $28 for a NOS one, so I think I got a good deal.

[Chris 16409]

Finally got the car reassembled. After some annoying coolant leaks that I had to tend with (back of water pump), I was finally able to start the car. I had to retighten some of the fuel hose connections, but after that, and subsequent starts, it finally fired. I need to readjust my mixture because I got some bad stumbling. The car must have been tuned with vacuum leaks, because I replaced all the o-rings and gaskets and now I'm going to hook it up to my dwell meter to do some fine tuning.