Governor Crazy

[alexdmc1]

Hi everyone. I completely rebuilt my automatic transmission (clutches, gaskets etc). I have a problem regarding operation: when the car starts it stays in first gear for a long time up to 4000/4500 rpm then it quickly changes gear up to third. (very quickly). All of this happens even if I press the accelerator softly. could it be the governor?

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[mrsandman]

Mine wouldn't shift out of first if I was on the gas. I didn't take it up to those RPM's so I can't say for sure the symptoms are the same. I remember it did shift to second then right to third gear when I let off the gas. As soon as I gave it any gas, it went back to first right away. As soon as I fixed the governor, the transmission started shifting normally.

I would start with the governor. If you haven't replaced the electrolytics yet, they are no longer working. The transistors should be replaced as well.

There are a couple of options, you can replace it with modern electronics or just replace the components on the board.

If you are good with a soldering iron, I would say replace the components, that is what I did.

[alexdmc1]

HI.
My government is original from 1981 has never been updated. The capacitors are therefore original I could have them checked by an electronic expert if there are problems or send the unit to a nearest DeLorean center.

The capacitor are C5, C6, C1, C2,C4,C3?

Thanks69896

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[Michael]

Since you had it off, I would make sure the cable adjustment is correctly set because it's a tight tolerance(like .4mm), and if so then you could build a set of test lights for the shift governor to see what it is telling the trans to do.

[alexdmc1]

Hello Michael.

the attached image is not of my Governor but they are images taken online. I'm very interested in knowing how to adjust the cable. it's not very clear. you know how to do it. an incorrect setting can raise the number of revolutions too much Before shifting gear? A thousand thanks

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[Michael]

Hello Michael.

the attached image is not of my Governor but they are images taken online. I'm very interested in knowing how to adjust the cable. it's not very clear. you know how to do it. an incorrect setting can raise the number of revolutions too much Before shifting gear? A thousand thanks

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The detent cable adjustment is critical in shift points. It will cause the engine to hold a gear forever before shifting or it may shift way too early. It's an easy adjustment but you will need to be under the car. I will take a pic of the tech manual when I get home.

[AugustneverEnds]

If your governor is completely original, I strongly suggest having it serviced and updated to prevent damage to the clutch packs in the transmission especially since you have just rebuilt your transmission. If your handy with a soldering iron, you can do it yourself and if not it's definitely worth the $400 or so to have a vendor take care of it for you.

[alexdmc1]

Good morning. I found this technical drawing to adjust the cable. should the operation be done with the accelerator pedal at full throttle? what is the "J" size? I can not understand....69897

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[Ron]

69898
Check out https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?350-Automatic-Transmission-Governor

[alexdmc1]

It's correct my drawing? Is the "J" measurement correct? Thanks69899

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[Ron]

Yes.
(A drill bit works nicely.)

[alexdmc1]

Or like this?69900

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[alexdmc1]

Is seems that the measurement Is between the screw and locking PIN.69901

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[alexdmc1]

This Is my cable.Do you think it's the right setting. Thanks69902

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[Ron]

Is seems that the measurement Is between the screw and locking PIN.69901

No. It is supposed to be between the quadrant (S) and stop pin (E), as shown in Post 9 (https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?19806-Governor-Crazy&p=276903&viewfull=1#post276903).

I think you should check that the GC's wire harness hasn't got up against the exhaust...
If not, make up some test lights, as previously suggested. (Use long wires or get the rear up on jack stands and see how it acts.)

69903

[alexdmc1]

Its correct?69904

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[Ron]

:thumbup:

[Michael]

I don't know if it was mentioned but the accelerator pedal must be fully pushed in before the adjustment is set. I don't know why just doing it at the throttle body wouldn't work but the manual says to use a stick or a helper to manually depress the pedal.

[alexdmc1]

I followed your advice and bought a new governor from Delorean. Now the gearbox in automatic mode shifts well.

I have a question:

When I engage first gear (1) the car also engages second gear.

Not where to stay in first gear?

What could be the problem?

thanks

[Ron]

If you mean that it will shift into 2nd when the selector is in 1st, that is normal if >35km/h (22m/h); light throttle.

Otherwise, there is a list of possible causes in the Workshop Manual at G:04:03, 04.


https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2866-Searchable-Workshop-Technical-Bulletins-and-Volvo-Engine-Manuals

[alexdmc1]

Manual:
<< This selection (First - 1) Will allow First Gear operation only>>

It seems to say: block the first gear. is there an error then? so it's normal that it changes if the pedal is light and I go over a certain speed.....?

Thanks

:-) [emoji3590]69939

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[Michael]

It's possible the new ones (with the new circuit board) will allow the safety to work both ways. I believe the trans governor was originally designed not to allow the trans to go into first gear if the speed was over (28mph if I recall). Maybe the new boards allow it to upshift over 28 as well even if the selector is in 1st?

[81dmc]

It's probably the linkage not adjusted properly.

If it's too far out one direction, you can't get 1st gear properly engaged. Too far in the other direction and no park.

[alexdmc1]

I have both the "park" and "neutral" positions correctly. so consequently I believe that everything is correct from a connection point of view. thanks for your answer

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[81dmc]

I have both the "park" and "neutral" positions correctly. so consequently I believe that everything is correct from a connection point of view. thanks for your answer

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You'd be surprised.

I dealt with that when I was automatic. It's a tight adjustment and everything else seems fine. You just lose park or 1st.

[alexdmc1]

wow! would you be able to help me to correctly adjust the right position? I repeat, P, N, D seem correct to me.....

[81dmc]

I forgot to add, one way to tell if it is an adjustment issue is to remove the shift lever external assembly (cover, spring, button) and the center console plate. Then you go for a drive and pull the lever all the way back. If it holds first gear with that, then it needs adjustment.


Adjustment may require removal of the shift mechanism as the adjustment is at the forward shift tube. You'd have to remove the tube and loosen the jamb nut.

I left my jamb nut loose as it allowed me to adjust the forward tube by disconnecting it at bellcrank and turning without having to take anything apart inside

[alexdmc1]

unfortunately it seems a difficult operation. can you help me through the attached technical drawing? When the car starts in 1st gear (1) and I shift manually into 2nd (2) the gearbox does its job. if it was a registration problem it shouldn't work..... is this a new feature introduced with the Governor update? Thank you69942

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[alexdmc1]

Hi everyone. I appeal to all automatic transmission owners. I just completely overhauled the gearbox and replaced the governor. during the first tests (see video) at a speed of about 80/90 km/H at 2100 rpm, moving the lever from D to 2 nothing happens. during another test, starting from stationary in position 1 and moving to position 2, the car makes the change. the P, R, N positions are correct, in the sense that they correspond to the transmission status. Thank you allhttp://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/64eae5577aecb/VID-20230826-WA0007.mp4

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[Ron]

Alex, I merged the above post into this thread so that everything is together and we help you better.

Other than not downshifting from 3rd to 2nd using the shifter, does it act normal (including downshifting 3rd to 2nd when you floor the pedal)?
Did you adjust the cable after installing the new governor?
Did you make up the test lights? If so, what do they do when you manually down shift now?

[alexdmc1]

Thanks Ron, I use the chat badly. Excuse me. ;)

https://youtu.be/6NmeHzzSA7w?feature=shared

16:12 minutes

this video shows the pilot downshifting using the lever in manual.

Yes, using the pedal I was able to downshift into second position.

I adjusted the throttle cable attached to the Governor. according to the attached picture.

Thanks

[David T]

Thanks Ron, I use the chat badly. Excuse me. ;)

https://youtu.be/6NmeHzzSA7w?feature=shared

16:12 minutes

this video shows the pilot downshifting using the lever in manual.

Yes, using the pedal I was able to downshift into second position.

I adjusted the throttle cable attached to the Governor. according to the attached picture.

Thanks

Moving the shift lever to shift hold or downshift does not always work on every transmission. No explanation for why. If it shifts and downshifts normally then leave it alone. Verify that all of the external adjustments are correct including the shift linkage and the throttle cable.

[Ron]

I adjusted the throttle cable attached to the Governor. according to the attached picture.That is wrong.


These are correct:
69958

(Did you make the test lights (https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?19806-Governor-Crazy&p=276910&viewfull=1#post276910)? ;)

[alexdmc1]

Hi Ron. I have to do the test lights, I will asap. for me it is not correct to measure the dimension "J" as you say; the screw passes through the plastic window. it is not possible to adjust the measure J with the through screw, it should be removed. I believe instead that in the factory the screw is through by a few tenths of a millimetre. could someone send a live photo of the correct setting; the drawings are not clear.

[alexdmc1]

Thanks


Moving the shift lever to shift hold or downshift does not always work on every transmission. No explanation for why. If it shifts and downshifts normally then leave it alone. Verify that all of the external adjustments are correct including the shift linkage and the throttle cable.

[alexdmc1]

Hi everyone. You know that after having the automatic gearbox serviced it broke again. After about 1 hour, at a summer temperature, oil leaked out near the torque converter oil seal. After dismantling the gearbox, the oil seal was no longer in place, but it came out of its seat a little. The sudden drop in pressure caused third gear to slip and so when I checked the sump I found mud and debris. In fact, one clutch was completely blackened, while the others are in perfect condition. In your opinion, is it possible for an oil seal to come out of its seat? Before having the damage the car drove quite well and changed all the gears, apart from a slight jerk at very low speeds.70063http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/6519903e41ecf/VID-20230930-WA0024.mp4

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[David T]

Hi everyone. You know that after having the automatic gearbox serviced it broke again. After about 1 hour, at a summer temperature, oil leaked out near the torque converter oil seal. After dismantling the gearbox, the oil seal was no longer in place, but it came out of its seat a little. The sudden drop in pressure caused third gear to slip and so when I checked the sump I found mud and debris. In fact, one clutch was completely blackened, while the others are in perfect condition. In your opinion, is it possible for an oil seal to come out of its seat? Before having the damage the car drove quite well and changed all the gears, apart from a slight jerk at very low speeds.70063http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/6519903e41ecf/VID-20230930-WA0024.mp4

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There are several reasons that seal could have popped out.
Wrong size
Improperly installed
Surface where seal installed in housing is damaged

When a seal fits loosely you could use sealant to hold it in, use a centerpunch and make a few indents all around the housing to hold the seal tighter, and use a seal installer to make sure the seal is squarely and evenly inserted. Get another seal and try again.

[alexdmc1]

Hello and thanks for the reply. the mechanic is sure that he installed the oil seal correctly, it was purchased from a famous English online store. the mechanic believes that the cause of the oil seal displacement is the very high temperature of the fluid (I hope he put an atf 2 and not an atf 6). recommend installing an external radiator to solve the problem. Do you think this reasoning is possible? Thank you

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[Michael]

Hello and thanks for the reply. the mechanic is sure that he installed the oil seal correctly, it was purchased from a famous English online store. the mechanic believes that the cause of the oil seal displacement is the very high temperature of the fluid (I hope he put an atf 2 and not an atf 6). recommend installing an external radiator to solve the problem. Do you think this reasoning is possible? Thank you

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Dexron 2 is hard to find but III is available in a lot of parts stores. According to GM, Dexron 6 is backwards compatible.

I'm sure the mechanic thinks he installed the seal correctly, he is not going to expose himself to any more liability, but just bear in mind, there are and have been quite a few auto Deloreans that did just fine with the factory oil cooler. To say that this seal failed because of the high temp of the fluid, is a bit of a stretch. I like DGo for some non critical parts, but in the future, all parts I buy that matter or are labor intensive will come from DeLorean Industries.

The factory oil cooler works but since it uses hot engine coolant, It's not super effective. PJ Grady sells a wrap around fin cooler that helps and is easy to install. I have one on mine.
70066

[David T]

Dexron 2 is hard to find but III is available in a lot of parts stores. According to GM, Dexron 6 is backwards compatible.

I'm sure the mechanic thinks he installed the seal correctly, he is not going to expose himself to any more liability, but just bear in mind, there are and have been quite a few auto Deloreans that did just fine with the factory oil cooler. To say that this seal failed because of the high temp of the fluid, is a bit of a stretch. I like DGo for some non critical parts, but in the future, all parts I buy that matter or are labor intensive will come from DeLorean Industries.

The factory oil cooler works but since it uses hot engine coolant, It's not super effective. PJ Grady sells a wrap around fin cooler that helps and is easy to install. I have one on mine.
70066

Hot fluid did not cause the seal to come out unless it was not the correct seal. If the fluid gets too hot it will burn and that has a characteristic odor and it would no longer be red. If the fluid gets burnt it usually means the clutch packs are burnt up. No amount of cooling is going to fix that. The factory cooler keeps the fluid from getting too hot under normal circumstances. There are things you can add to help too, Grady used to sell a jacket to put over the cooler to aid in cooling the fluid and he also sold a heat shield to put on the cross/over exhaust pipe to shield the transmission from the exhaust heat. They both help a little.

[alexdmc1]

I also think that the leakage of the oil seal is not due to the temperature. Could the culprit be the amount of oil the mechanic poured inside? Thank you . The oil seal appears to be the correct size. What could have pulled him away a little? thanks

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[Ron]

I agree, it wasn't temp nor too much fluid.
He should of used a high temp sleeve retainer and the correct installation tool, imho.

[alexdmc1]

Could you please explain to me better? Which tool? which sleeve? Thank you

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[Michael]

Hot fluid did not cause the seal to come out unless it was not the correct seal. If the fluid gets too hot it will burn and that has a characteristic odor and it would no longer be red. If the fluid gets burnt it usually means the clutch packs are burnt up. No amount of cooling is going to fix that. The factory cooler keeps the fluid from getting too hot under normal circumstances. There are things you can add to help too, Grady used to sell a jacket to put over the cooler to aid in cooling the fluid and he also sold a heat shield to put on the cross/over exhaust pipe to shield the transmission from the exhaust heat. They both help a little.

Once again DT restates my reply to hear himself type

[alexdmc1]

Thanks you. Thanks [emoji175]

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[Timeless]

Once again DT restates my reply to hear himself type
It's getting old..... :boxface:

[Ron]

Could you please explain to me better? Which tool? which sleeve? Thank you

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"Permatex High Temperature Sleeve Retainer (https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-64000-Temperature-Sleeve-Retainer/dp/B000HBIDME?th=1) is a high temperature anaerobic adhesive that secures slip and press fit assemblies and restores fit to worn or out-of-tolerance assemblies. This adhesive prevents surface corrosion and will add up to 3,000 PSI holding power."

From G:07:02 in the Work Shop Manual:
70067

[alexdmc1]

"Permatex High Temperature Sleeve Retainer (https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-64000-Temperature-Sleeve-Retainer/dp/B000HBIDME?th=1) is a high temperature anaerobic adhesive that secures slip and press fit assemblies and restores fit to worn or out-of-tolerance assemblies. This adhesive prevents surface corrosion and will add up to 3,000 PSI holding power."

From G:07:02 in the Work Shop Manual:
70067hi, but according to this manual is it possible that there are two oil seals to install?70068

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[Ron]

hi, but according to this manual is it possible that there are two oil seals to install?70068

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Need a bit of clarification here... When you said it was "leaking oil near the torque converter seal...", did you mean gear oil or automatic transmission fluid? I was assuming Automatic transmission fluid.

The seal you show in the converter casting is for automatic transmission fluid. The one you show in the final drive casting is for gear oil.

There are five metal clad type seals possible in the transmission:
Converter Seal (70mm x 48mm x 10mm)
Front Planetary Shaft (65mm x 45mm x10mm)
Rear Planetary Shaft (42mm x 30mm x 7mm)
Differential Seal Metal Case (58mm x 36mm x 20mm)
Differential Seal Rubber Case (58mm x 42mm x 13mm)

[alexdmc1]

Hi Ron. the fluid that comes out is red, it is ATF fluid from the converter.

[alexdmc1]

Good morning. Do you think it could be the fault of the slightly worn bushing? the car only has 27,000 m. I wonder, can I create problems by eliminating the non-return valve located near the converter to help the oil flow out? I have the feeling that the installation is backwards. Thank you70187

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[alexdmc1]

Good morning everyone. I thank you for the help received. I want to share with you the solution to my problem. the ATF oil leaks from the torque converter oil seal were due to a jamming of the ball of one of the two solenoids. after unlocking the ball, the gearbox worked great; now it shifts from first to third smoothly, the leak I had on the oil seal has disappeared. I thank everyone for their availability. Thank you

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