Rear license plate surround

[Bitsyncmaster]

On my car the lower right screw holding the license plate surround on was over tightened and damaged the surround at the screw hole. I've seen this on many cars (same hole). Anyway, I was fixing that damage with fiberglass and epoxy and noticed that the license plate sits higher than the surround. I'm wondering if this is the vibration (noise) I get in third gear with hard acceleration. I can see where that right lower corner has worn the black paint off the rear fascia.

I'm thinking of cutting the fascia to provide clearance for those brackets holding the license plate on which stick up the highest. I also think I will fiberglass all four of the surround holes for added strength. Maybe a little foam on the back of the license plate to prevent buzzing.

[David T]

On my car the lower right screw holding the license plate surround on was over tightened and damaged the surround at the screw hole. I've seen this on many cars (same hole). Anyway, I was fixing that damage with fiberglass and epoxy and noticed that the license plate sits higher than the surround. I'm wondering if this is the vibration (noise) I get in third gear with hard acceleration. I can see where that right lower corner has worn the black paint off the rear fascia.

I'm thinking of cutting the fascia to provide clearance for those brackets holding the license plate on which stick up the highest. I also think I will fiberglass all four of the surround holes for added strength. Maybe a little foam on the back of the license plate to prevent buzzing.

The Deloreans originally were delivered with a piece of thin glass to cover the rear license plate. Not many still have it. I make them up out of ordinary thin window glass. Some thin foam tape strategically placed can hold things together so they don't slip or vibrate. On many cars the clips that are supposed to hold the plate are broken or missing. You can make up new ones out of metal or plastic. They never really fit well anyway.

[Timeless]

Glass/clear covering over the license plate is a terrible idea. It would become a breeding area for moisture and dirt.

[David T]

Glass/clear covering over the license plate is a terrible idea. It would become a breeding area for moisture and dirt.

I never had a problem. In fact, in New Jersey it is illegal to cover the license plate. Some people buy a tinted cover that is sold to try to defeat Laser speed detection. I argued with an inspection station about the glass and they agreed that since the glass was factory installed they let me pass. Turns out in their paperwork they saw it was legit. I also had problems with the gas cap. None of their adapters would fit right. The State finally issued a waiver for that test. Now that I have Historical plates I am no longer subject to inspection.

[Helirich]

Glass/clear covering over the license plate is a terrible idea. It would become a breeding area for moisture and dirt.

I suppose most Delorean only get driven in nice weather, so it doesn?t matter. The only time I drive mine in rain is on long trips.

Dave, could you post a pic of your glass setup?

[Bitsyncmaster]

The Deloreans originally were delivered with a piece of thin glass to cover the rear license plate. Not many still have it. I make them up out of ordinary thin window glass. Some thin foam tape strategically placed can hold things together so they don't slip or vibrate. On many cars the clips that are supposed to hold the plate are broken or missing. You can make up new ones out of metal or plastic. They never really fit well anyway.

That would make the license plate to stick up even further. I don't see any problem cutting the fascia so it clears the license plate.

[Timeless]

I suppose most Delorean only get driven in nice weather, so it doesn?t matter. The only time I drive mine in rain is on long trips.
I was speaking of moisture/debris from environment and/or washing. Being is S. FL I drive my car year round - including rain.

[Bitsyncmaster]

My fix for the destroyed screw hole worked out good. I used two layers of 2 or maybe it is 4 oz. glass cloth. I could have done more but since I plan to cut clearance holes in the fascia, you don't need the screws to have any force.

My tape that I used to hold the epoxy pulled the paint off. So I will need to repaint the surround. I plan to use that STEEL IT paint that I've found to exceed any other flat black spray paint.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Not sure if a PO changed the screws. I am missing that one. The other three are 10-24, 82deg Phillips flat head 1.25" long, Black finish head. May not find the black finish at my local hardware store. Probably can just paint the heads.

[DMCMW Dave]

Another thing to note is that the bosses on the plate holder are not as deep as the outside of the plate holder. This causes the fascia to bow outward toward the plate holder when the screws are tightened into the jack nuts in the fascia.

The simple fix for this is to not overtighten the screws, but typically at this age the damage is done. On my own car, when I replaced the rear fascia, I fabricated small nylon spacers that go over the screw between the holder and the fascia. This allowed me to tighten the screws without deforming the fascia material.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Another thing to note is that the bosses on the plate holder are not as deep as the outside of the plate holder. This causes the fascia to bow outward toward the plate holder when the screws are tightened into the jack nuts in the fascia.

The simple fix for this is to not overtighten the screws, but typically at this age the damage is done. On my own car, when I replaced the rear fascia, I fabricated small nylon spacers that go over the screw between the holder and the fascia. This allowed me to tighten the screws without deforming the fascia material.

The top right jack nut on my car was really torqued. It has deformed the fascia around that jack nut. It was real simple to cut the fascia with the "router bit" in my Dremal. I only cut where the plate holders stick up the most and left the rest of the fascia to keep pressure on the license plate.

I ordered some "black Oxide Concentrate" on Amazon after seeing a youtube video of it working on bolts. They say it even protects the bolt from rusting. But I'm going to try it with stainless screws.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I prepped my surround by wiping with MEK. That did easily remove the old black paint but that MEK will eat right through thin paint gloves. Would be best to put surround in a tray with MEK and use a brush. Smoothed it out wiping with a scotch brite pad. Sprayed one coat with that STEEL IT paint. After it dried it came out very nice. It's a shame that paint cost $40 a can but it covers with one coat and probably covers what it would take two cans or more of other paint.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I ordered some "black Oxide Concentrate" on Amazon after seeing a youtube video of it working on bolts. They say it even protects the bolt from rusting. But I'm going to try it with stainless screws.

That Black Oxide Concentrate does nothing to Stainless steel screws. It did work on regular steel screw but not really a solid black like paint would do.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Just did a light spray of the heads of my screws. Looks really good. I used longer screws (1.5") so I could start them into the rivnuts with my fingers. There is wider gap between the fascia and my right tail light. I'm thinking of making "nut plates" to replace the tail light rivnuts. My tail light screws are a sheet metal type, not a machine screw. I guess a PO put those in.

I really love that "STEEL-IT" flat black paint.

[Helirich]

Just did a light spray of the heads of my screws. Looks really good. I used longer screws (1.5") so I could start them into the rivnuts with my fingers. There is wider gap between the fascia and my right tail light. I'm thinking of making "nut plates" to replace the tail light rivnuts. My tail light screws are a sheet metal type, not a machine screw. I guess a PO put those in.

I really love that "STEEL-IT" flat black paint.

I?ve heard good things about that Steel-it paint on another forum. I need to look for it. Did you have to order it on line?

[Bitsyncmaster]

I?ve heard good things about that Steel-it paint on another forum. I need to look for it. Did you have to order it on line?

I've not seen it locally. I ordered it online. It's expensive $40 but it seems to cover at least twice as much as other paints. It is a little better with solvent resistance then regular paint. Have yet to need more than one coat. It has a grayish tinge when wet but turns flat black when dry.

[Helirich]

I just pulled my surround off and found my facia is deformed at the top two screws. Did you have any of that? Kind of hard to show in a pic.

70083

I?m wondering if I should do the hair dryer trick and bend it back.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I just pulled my surround off and found my facia is deformed at the top two screws. Did you have any of that? Kind of hard to show in a pic.

I?m wondering if I should do the hair dryer trick and bend it back.

I did not check with a level but yes, mine was bowed. I don't think it matters since the surround and plate cover it and also press it back. I don't know why they did not have a cutout behind the surround. Both tail lights needed it.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Here is my finished nut plate for the license plate surround. I welded up some one inch wide 1/8 inch thick 6061 and installed 10-32 PEM nuts. This will slide in the tail light opening. You could just make one out of plate stock but don't think you could slide it in without some cut out.

I want to make nut plates for the tail lights but that is not a flat surface so it would need the "nuts" to be standoffs.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Got the nut plat installed. Those stock "rivnuts" were really to far left and a little to low. With my nut plate, adjustment is easy. It also has stainless PEM nuts to hold the stainless screws. Now I have to paint the new 10-32 screw heads. The stock screws were 10-24.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Another thing to note is that the bosses on the plate holder are not as deep as the outside of the plate holder. This causes the fascia to bow outward toward the plate holder when the screws are tightened into the jack nuts in the fascia.

The simple fix for this is to not overtighten the screws, but typically at this age the damage is done. On my own car, when I replaced the rear fascia, I fabricated small nylon spacers that go over the screw between the holder and the fascia. This allowed me to tighten the screws without deforming the fascia material.

I think I know why they made the screw seats so thin. So they could tilt the screws to accommodate the miss alignment of the riv-nuts. I think those riv-nuts had a floating nut. I will have to check, they dropped down when I drilled them out.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Here is the back side of one of riv-nuts that hold the license plate surround. So it does look like it could work with a screw at a small angle.

The rear light nuts look like a solid steel part that is heat pressed into the fascia. I could do the same thing (make a nut plate) for those is I heated those steel parts and pressed them out but I think I'm going to try Helicoils. I think the placement of the stock "nuts" seem pretty good on my car.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I did not have much luck putting Helicoils into the rear light screw holes. The plates "molded" into the rear fascia are only 0.20" thick and it is not enough to get reliable Helicoils in. I don't think there is enough width to use time-serts. So after messing that up, I need to make up nut plates to get the rear lights back on.:mecry:

[jamesrguk]

I did not have much luck putting Helicoils into the rear light screw holes. The plates "molded" into the rear fascia are only 0.20" thick and it is not enough to get reliable Helicoils in. I don't think there is enough width to use time-serts. So after messing that up, I need to make up nut plates to get the rear lights back on.:mecry:

Dave,

I think you're an occasional 3D printing chap so...

Drill out the old riv-nuts
3D print a small block the size of a 4 x 2 Lego piece with a hole in the centre.
Pop in a M7 brass threaded insert using a soldering iron to set it in properly.
Hot glue them inside the fascia.

The block can't spin round when you do up the bolt as it fowls on the light cluster, however if you do strip the threaded insert out of the printed base and it starts spinning - unlike a traditional captive hex nut - you can just pull it out of the plastic base and through the larger riv-nut hole in the fascia.

Simple, cheap and effective.

J

[Bitsyncmaster]

Dave,

I think you're an occasional 3D printing chap so...

Drill out the old riv-nuts
3D print a small block the size of a 4 x 2 Lego piece with a hole in the centre.
Pop in a M7 brass threaded insert using a soldering iron to set it in properly.
Hot glue them inside the fascia.

The block can't spin round when you do up the bolt as it fowls on the light cluster, however if you do strip the threaded insert out of the printed base and it starts spinning - unlike a traditional captive hex nut - you can just pull it out of the plastic base and through the larger riv-nut hole in the fascia.

Simple, cheap and effective.

J

Good thinking but it would be hard to glue the blocks in without removing the whole back end. You need exact placement of each block. Not much leeway for error.

[jamesrguk]

Good thinking but it would be hard to glue the blocks in without removing the whole back end. You need exact placement of each block. Not much leeway for error.

I don't see any need to remove the back end? just pull the lights, drill out the riv nuts and install 2 of these beauties per side with a couple of blobs of double sided 3m Foam tape.

70148

J

[Bitsyncmaster]

I don't see any need to remove the back end? just pull the lights, drill out the riv nuts and install 2 of these beauties per side with a couple of blobs of double sided 3m Foam tape.

70148

J

Looks good. I see you have found out that those screw holes are very close to the folded fascia cutout. I'm working on same idea but using aluminum with PEM nuts.

[jamesrguk]

Looks good. I see you have found out that those screw holes are very close to the folded fascia cutout. I'm working on same idea but using aluminum with PEM nuts.

Nice, that would be a good solution I need to replace my riv nuts anyway, I'll give my idea a try but rather than 3D printing I'm going to laser-cut the plate from HDPE as the threads heat sink into that nicely, it's very durable, laser cutting will take seconds and I have some HDPE sheet left over from another project.

When you're on a budget it's all about making what you can, from what you've got laying around lol

James

[Bitsyncmaster]

Nice, that would be a good solution I need to replace my riv nuts anyway, I'll give my idea a try but rather than 3D printing I'm going to laser-cut the plate from HDPE as the threads heat sink into that nicely, it's very durable, laser cutting will take seconds and I have some HDPE sheet left over from another project.

When you're on a budget it's all about making what you can, from what you've got laying around lol

James

Those nuts are not riv-nuts. The are molded into the "plastic". Check my photo. They do not come out without a lot of work. Right now I drilled the holes in them with a #11 bit which is the size a 10-32 screw can pass through. I made up a "master" aluminum plate to use as a drill jig for the other three plates. I also use that master to drill the mounting holes (2 more screws) that hold the plate in. So my plates will be placed exactly where the OEM holes were. I will drill those OEM nut holes a little larger. I also can adjust the location or leave it floating a little.

My 3D printer could not print the 11 inch long plates anyway.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Well I found out why I could not helicoil those OEM nuts. the solid part of that nut is only 0.230" which is almost the OD of the helicoil. So the nuts broke into two pieces.

[Bitsyncmaster]

This is how close you need to have the center-lines to clear that fold. I had to have more so when I pressed in the PEM nuts they would not shift in the hole. Then I cut off that extra metal. PEM nut spec from edge is 0.28". Those two extra holes is where I was going to put my holding screws but I found the top area of the lights did not have that room.

Now you could put standoffs onto the holding screws so you don't have that fold clearance problem but then you would need longer screws.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Got the messed up tail light back installed. My nut plates worked but I had to ream out the screw holes in the tail lights so a 10-32 screw would fit. Also the angle of those holes is not proper but that may just be my fascia has warped or it never was perfect. I put the three upper screws in and the bottom is sticking out about half and inch. Not a real problem because the fascia flexes. I left my nut plates floating a little so they lock in when the rear light pulls the nut plate tight.

My screws that came with the car are a smaller self tapping screw. I was looking at the photo on DMCH and they look like they should have been machine screws. Can someone verify theirs are machine screws. What size are they?

I used 10-32 screws because the license plate surround used that size. So maybe 8-32 would have been a better choice. Anyway the pan head 10-32 fills up the light holes nicely.

I have to paint the heads of the screws flat black. Not sure if I will do this change to the other side yet.