Electrogenic is now offering a "drop-in" EV conversion

[MacStainless]

I found this article on Electrek a little bit ago and figured I'd share it. A UK company called Electrogenic is offering a 'drop-in' EV conversion for the DMC. Apparently there's no cutting involved and the battery pack goes where the gas tank would be. It looks like it's a 44 KwH pack good for about 140 miles of range.

I know some people have done their own home-brew EV conversions, but this seems pretty cool and, I'll admit, something tempting. Who knows how much it costs to buy and/or install, since everything is "contact us" for that.

Anyhow, here's the link: https://www.electrogenic.co.uk/kits/conversion-kits/delorean-dmc-12-conversion-kit/

[JBaker4981]

It looks like it's a 44 KwH pack good for about 140 miles of range.

It's neat... but like with all EVs, lets go ahead and go green while reducing the drivability of a car. To each their own I guess!

[Helirich]

Price would certainly be a factor. I doubt I would pull out a good running gear, but maybe if I blew up the motor. I see a car in the classified without engine. Wonder if this kit could be installed for a total price of a running car?

[mike123]

I agree with price being the main (or maybe Only) factor. I would really be curious what portion of owners would swap to electric if it could be done at similar time and cost to an ICE swap; I would think quite a few. I have never owned an electric car but they seem to be advantageous in almost every way: speed/performance, weight distribution, lower maintenance, and certainly more reliable than what is in most DeLoreans. The range would probably bug me once a year, but the other 364 days I think it would be an awesome upgrade.

[ssdelorean]

It's neat... but like with all EVs, lets go ahead and go green while reducing the drivability of a car. To each their own I guess!

Maybe "green" in color for all the $ shelled out for one but it is not "green" for the environment no matter what marketing says. The mining to find the limited precious metals to make the batteries, the coal mining and transport of coal to burn to make electricity. Just because we cannot see the fumes from an exhaust pipe doesn't mean they don't pollute.

Price, range and technology are my biggest deterrents. Normal new ICE cars have too many computer chips, touch screens and plastic parts. When something breaks, most of the time you cannot replace a small part but the whole unit attached to it needs replacing. My friend's headlight was damaged and it was over $1,500 to replace the whole unit. Could not replace the broken bulbs inside. Engineered obsolescence. Yeah, I'm get'n old. "Get off my lawn!" :p

[dn010]

There will be no EV's in my garage in the future. It is not practical for me, especially in Florida; if you've ever had to evacuate for a hurricane, you know what I mean. A home charger is another cost. Support for this setup is a concern, replacement batteries is another. Then who is on the hook should the battery catch fire and burn down my house since it is a "swap"? It says it has heating, what about air conditioning?

I also could not imagine sitting in neutral and not being able to rev the engine. Come to think of it, I have not seen one movie that features a street race with a couple of dudes harnessed into their EV's newly installed sport competition seats, silently racing down the streets of California in order to see who wins the rights to keep their Hoonigan windshield banner installed.

That said, anyone know what the cost of a LS swap is these days?

[Timeless]

There will be no EV's in my garage in the future. It is not practical for me, especially in Florida; if you've ever had to evacuate for a hurricane, you know what I mean. A home charger is another cost. Support for this setup is a concern, replacement batteries is another. Then who is on the hook should the battery catch fire and burn down my house since it is a "swap"? It says it has heating, what about air conditioning?
Living in S. FL I agree. I owned three EV since 2019: 2 Model 3 & a Taycan. They're all deleted from my collection and I'm back to all ICE. Shannon is correct - EVs are NOT green at all. Tech is cool but I love my vintage cars and drive them everyday. My newest vehicles are 2002MY and they won't be around in a couple years. Bonus: no modules in my cars for big brother/government to monitor me.

[Timeless]

It looks like it's a 44 KwH pack good for about 140 miles of range.
:thumbdown:

[FABombjoy]

I'll happily convert once the capacity is higher or fast charging infrastructure is easily accessible. This is impressive but I do like long weekend drives.
If my car was an weekend ice-cream getter or point A to A car (and I had a pile of green I wished to burn) it would be more tempting. I can appreciate the packaging challenges overcome.

Almost every EV owner I know is a weekend racing, motor building gear head with a garage full of awesome and shitbox projects.
These talks always descend in tree hugging hippie rants. That stereotype is pretty dated.

[Michael]

140 miles of claimed range will translate to 90 in the real world...if you are lucky and your world is flat

[Bitsyncmaster]

140 miles of claimed range will translate to 90 in the real world...if you are lucky and your world is flat

And you drive like grandma in her Buick. :burnout:

[Helirich]

I agree with price being the main (or maybe Only) factor. I would really be curious what portion of owners would swap to electric if it could be done at similar time and cost to an ICE swap; I would think quite a few. I have never owned an electric car but they seem to be advantageous in almost every way: speed/performance, weight distribution, lower maintenance, and certainly more reliable than what is in most DeLoreans. The range would probably bug me once a year, but the other 364 days I think it would be an awesome upgrade.

I?m glad you didn?t say the green lie. I would have to argue lower maintenance and reliability has yet to be proven. So ?almost every way? is certainly debatable. I?m not anti-EV, I just think they have to compete with what?s out there. An EV as a principal transportation is not yet feasible, but most Delorean owners, ssDelorean excepted, don?t use it for that. I would consider it, but probably not yet ready to jump in.

[r00b]

It might be nice to have in a second delorean,

[todd1561]

Maybe "green" in color for all the $ shelled out for one but it is not "green" for the environment no matter what marketing says. The mining to find the limited precious metals to make the batteries, the coal mining and transport of coal to burn to make electricity. Just because we cannot see the fumes from an exhaust pipe doesn't mean they don't pollute.


Just to drop a few facts in here.. While you're correct the initial construction/mining of any large battery has significant environmental impact it has been proven over and over again that for a typical car battery being charged on the US power grid with a typical assortment of power sources the break even point is about 2 years. Any miles after that are significantly more 'green' than a similar ICE car. And if you're in an area that has a higher percentage of renewable energy that time drops. If you charge it with at home solar panels like I do it drops even further.

There are already plenty of legitimate reasons EVs aren't a great fit for everyone (Range, charging infrastructure, initial cost, etc), we don't need to throw around falsehoods.

[Helirich]

Just to drop a few facts in here.. While you're correct the initial construction/mining of any large battery has significant environmental impact it has been proven over and over again that for a typical car battery being charged on the US power grid with a typical assortment of power sources the break even point is about 2 years. Any miles after that are significantly more 'green' than a similar ICE car. And if you're in an area that has a higher percentage of renewable energy that time drops. If you charge it with at home solar panels like I do it drops even further.

There are already plenty of legitimate reasons EVs aren't a great fit for everyone (Range, charging infrastructure, initial cost, etc), we don't need to throw around falsehoods.

Yea, and the vaccine has been proven to be safe and effective.

[ssdelorean]

Just to drop a few facts in here.. While you're correct the initial construction/mining of any large battery has significant environmental impact it has been proven over and over again that for a typical car battery being charged on the US power grid with a typical assortment of power sources the break even point is about 2 years. Any miles after that are significantly more 'green' than a similar ICE car. And if you're in an area that has a higher percentage of renewable energy that time drops. If you charge it with at home solar panels like I do it drops even further.

..... <<snip>>>

we don't need to throw around falsehoods.

Likewise, drop'n facts.... ICE "dino fuel" does not take "millions of years" to be produced in nature. It is a renewable source. However, the earth is round not flat.

[todd1561]

Likewise, drop'n facts.... ICE "dino fuel" does not take "millions of years" to be produced in nature. It is a renewable source. However, the earth is round not flat.

lol what? Dino fuel is a renewable resource now? Have the dinosaurs made a comeback I haven't heard about yet?

Anyway, this seems to be going predictably off the rails, I'll let this get back on track to the original EV conversion kit.

[mhanch]

Yea, and the vaccine has been proven to be safe and effective.

It has. Don't be an ass.

[mike123]

Based on the one kit that does have a price on the website, my guess is that this would be priced at $40k. And I would assume maybe another $20k to get it swapped in for the PRV.

A Tesla small drive unit seems like it would have about 50 percent more power, at least based on my extremely surface level understanding of these stats. It also seems like the kit is not really pushing the limits of what kind of battery capacity you could fit in the car with a bit more engineering.

My hunch is that these kits (including this and other advertised DeLorean EV kit providers beyond this one) just aren't low enough in price, or close enough in performance, to draw converters away from a more powerful and functional custom swap.

[Rich]

Motor Trend spreads the word in this piece (https://www.motortrend.com/news/electrogenic-delorean-dmc12-coupe-ev-conversion-first-look-review/) - not a test review, rather a summary of Electrogenic EV conversion PR

[Helirich]

Motor Trend spreads the word in this piece (https://www.motortrend.com/news/electrogenic-delorean-dmc12-coupe-ev-conversion-first-look-review/) - not a test review, rather a summary of Electrogenic EV conversion PR

Interesting.

For those that want the cliffs,

215 hp and a gain of 88 lbs. There lots of pics, but they are mostly of a Delorean exterior. There are a couple pics inside. Not much different. Also, a couple pics of the engine compartment. It is basically a giant pice of sheet metal, so you can?t see anything. No pic of the front compartment. Not sure how much storage is left.

Also, no price mentioned. They indicated it would be similar to the electric Jaguar XKE, but no price on that either.

[Helirich]

It has. Don't be an ass.

I hope you are being sarcastic.

[David T]

Today's EV's assume a certain minimum # of miles driven per day and a use factor of at least being driven several times per week. The battery must also be maintained at certain levels to get the maximum life. This profile is not what most people who have Deloreans drive. The majority of the time the car just sits unless you use it as a daily driver. Other common sense problems exist like if you live in an apartment and park on the street, just how do you charge the car? There are a lot of good reasons to consider EV's but you must decide if it is actually a good fit and the economics make sense. No different than when you are looking for a car, you have to decide on a 2 door or a 4 door, an SUV, a convertible, etc. An EV is just another choice. As for converting a car to EV, same considerations but economics is a bigger factor. You can spend more than the car will ever be worth but if you are doing it just because you can and you want a project, then cost is not a factor. You can get tremendous performance from an EV but at the price of much reduced range and battery lifetime. In time battery technology will improve but right now Hydrocarbon IC is a much more matured technology. If you want to go "Green" get a bicycle.

[mike123]

Other common sense problems exist like if you live in an apartment and park on the street, just how do you charge the car?

I actually don't think this problem exists.

[mike123]

According to this article, the Electrogenic kit is $110,000: https://supercarblondie.com/delorean-road-ready-costs/

Even if that is the "installed" price, it seems significantly more expensive than some estimates I've received from more local places that do EV conversions.

[Timeless]

So 215hp..... My PRV with cams and EFI is about 200hp and drives VERY well. I'll pass on that conversion...... :thumbdown:

[BladeBronson]

So 215hp..... My PRV with cams and EFI is about 200hp and drives VERY well. I'll pass on that conversion...... :thumbdown:

Have you dynoed it? I have a Stage II and have never dynoed it and always wondered if vendor claims are close to reality.

[Helirich]

A friend of mine sent me this link on the same conversion.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/research/i-drove-an-electric-delorean-the-performance-finally-matches-the-looks/ar-BB1pLaXm?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ACTS&cvid=6773377ac0a543eab780f14556b871ea&ei=38

Don?t read it unless you want to get mad. All kinds of BS. Of course they complain about stock power, but I didn?t know our cars were terrible at handling and the motors were so unreliable.

[Chris4099]

As somebody that has been daily driving an EV for 11 years now, the FUD in this thread is amazing. Same tired old arguments made 11 years ago are still being used today. Despite the fact that coal use was decreasing then and has further decreased by 50% over that very time. Even then, at least it's 100% American made, unlike gas. :)

My D is the last gas car I own. I can't wait to convert it to an EV at some point, but this "kit" is not it for me. The fact you can't install it means it's most definitely not a kit. I have the technical knowhow to do a conversion, just not the fabrication skills or the time to actually do it. So I'm patiently waiting for a time when somebody actually does release a kit that I can then install. Something that preferably is sold on a decent scale so it's not so "unknown" like most engine swapped DeLoreans you find. Once converted, I look forward to the massive performance boost (The DMC-MW Apex conversion I think maybe the fastest DeLorean yet), much lower maintenance and improved reliability.

[Michael]

As somebody that has been daily driving an EV for 11 years now, the FUD in this thread is amazing. Same tired old arguments made 11 years ago are still being used today. Despite the fact that coal use was decreasing then and has further decreased by 50% over that very time. Even then, at least it's 100% American made, unlike gas. :)

My D is the last gas car I own. I can't wait to convert it to an EV at some point, but this "kit" is not it for me. The fact you can't install it means it's most definitely not a kit. I have the technical knowhow to do a conversion, just not the fabrication skills or the time to actually do it. So I'm patiently waiting for a time when somebody actually does release a kit that I can then install. Something that preferably is sold on a decent scale so it's not so "unknown" like most engine swapped DeLoreans you find. Once converted, I look forward to the massive performance boost (The DMC-MW Apex conversion I think maybe the fastest DeLorean yet), much lower maintenance and improved reliability.

I don't give a flying F about coal usage, price, BS environmental concerns, virtue signaling, blah blah blah.

If an EV does what I want it to do, I'm all in. I would GLADLY drive an ev but I will not wait a minimum of 30 minutes for a charge and hope when I get to a station, there isn't a line.

When they are HONEST about the range, and I don't have to guess, when the battery life and replacement cost truly offsets the gas savings, when the infrastructure is normalized and charging stations are more abundant (not many around my neck of the woods), then and only then I will consider it. I'm glad you are happy, but I want more out of a $50k+ purchase.

It's not Fear, it is very much uncertainty and doubt because we know what we want out of a car, and right now, ev makers don't provide what I'm looking for.

[dn010]

As somebody that has been daily driving an ICE for 22 years, I can tell you with certainty that gasoline has proven reliable.

It doesn't really matter who produces the "fastest" DeLorean, we're all faced with the same speed signs.

[Chris4099]

If an EV does what I want it to do, I'm all in. I would GLADLY drive an ev but I will not wait a minimum of 30 minutes for a charge and hope when I get to a station, there isn't a line.


Well, you are in luck. Lines while not unheard of are also not common either. I've done countless road trips (probably totaling over 20k miles). Only once did I have to wait and even then, it was 2 minutes. Likewise, charging stops should only last about 20 minutes. I like to combine them with my bathroom/snack stops. During my last 1,000 mile trip to Las Vegas, I probably spent a grand total of 1 hour over 2 days just sitting and waiting in the car for it to charge. Rest of the time I was doing other things while the car charged. And if you pick the right charging network, you can get reliable real-time usage of the site before arriving. No need to wonder/hope when you know exactly what the situation is like ahead of you.


When they are HONEST about the range, and I don't have to guess, when the battery life and replacement cost truly offsets the gas savings, when the infrastructure is normalized and charging stations are more abundant (not many around my neck of the woods), then and only then I will consider it. I'm glad you are happy, but I want more out of a $50k+ purchase.

OK, so lots to unpack here. I hate to start with a whataboutism, but what about gas cars? Have you ever had one that could easily get the rated MPG? EVs are no different. Efficiency ratings are really meant for comparison between cars. As long as you stick to an EV with 250+ mile rating, it really doesn't matter anyway. I can't recall the last time I discharged mine below 40% in daily driving. It just doesn't matter when you start each day with a "full tank".

Batteries should last the life of the car (excluding the original Leaf) as replacements are very rare and even then usually done under a 8 year warranty that virtually all EVs come with. I don't know how long you keep a new car on average, but most don't keep them over 8 years. But even if you buy a used EV that's over 8 years old, it's still low risk. There was a recent article where they covered the odds of needing a battery replacement and show the data: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last Now I will agree that if you need a replacement, it's going to be expensive and that's not right. Usually most pack failures are simple things like BMS boards or thermistors. Most manufactures just swap the battery with a refurb and send the old pack back to the factory for repair. This makes sense in that you don't need a dealership tech trained in battery maintenance, but it also means they don't charge you for the actual fault in the battery. Hopefully as demand increases, there will be more 3rd party repair options. There are a few shops already that can do this at a fraction of the dealership cost.

As for charging infrastructure, why does it matter how many there are near where you live? You are thinking with a gas mentality, not EV. The vast majority of charging is done at home (about 90% of mine is done there). After all, why would I pay more for the inconvenience of not charging at home? I only care about public infrastructure where I travel to. And fortunately it's been over 7 years since I last took a trip where I couldn't drive an EV. Ever since then, I've had no issues charging on the road and at my destination.

Finally, both my EVs cost less then $50k. If you make less then $300k a year, you can get a performance Tesla Model 3 or Y for under that amount and be doing constant 0-60 in under 3 or 4 seconds with a real world range of about 250 or 200 miles. Even without the credit, both long range versions are under $50k.


It's not Fear, it is very much uncertainty and doubt because we know what we want out of a car, and right now, ev makers don't provide what I'm looking for.

All I ask is you actually take a closer look out there and not go by what those that don't even own an EV say. Are they perfect, no. But neither are gas cars. And for daily driving, they have a lot of advantages. And the "sacrifices" you make for road trips are not that bad or frequent (I actually prefer EV road trips over gas due to the comfort of the drive itself). I'm going on a 740 mile road trip next week to Montana in a single day (with a 4 year old). Once I get there, I'll report back and be 100% honest with you in what I experience. If I experience a line or down chargers, I'll let you know.

[Timeless]

Well, you are in luck. Lines while not unheard of are also not common either. I've done countless road trips (probably totaling over 20k miles). Only once did I have to wait and even then, it was 2 minutes. Likewise, charging stops should only last about 20 minutes. I like to combine them with my bathroom/snack stops. During my last 1,000 mile trip to Las Vegas, I probably spent a grand total of 1 hour over 2 days just sitting and waiting in the car for it to charge. Rest of the time I was doing other things while the car charged. And if you pick the right charging network, you can get reliable real-time usage of the site before arriving. No need to wonder/hope when you know exactly what the situation is like ahead of you.
My last stay in Vegas with the Tesla was complete shit. 2.5 hours waiting at a supercharger. Lines ARE common. Heat was high and the stalls were full causing EXTREMELY slow charging - even at Tesla v3 units. I have owned 2 Teslas and a Taycan. No more - I'm back to driving vintage cars everyday and that makes me happy.
Battery tech and infrastructure is not there yet - period.

[Chris4099]

There's 19 different Supercharger sites in Vegas. Did you use the car display to see the status of the others in the area? Where they all showing as full? I've Supercharged in 108 degree heat at full speed and so have others (that's not very high when it comes to normal vehicle operating temperature). So something else must have been wrong if people weren't getting full speed. The battery tech was not the issue. That's not to say that never happens, but clearly something "not normal" was causing that.

[Helirich]

I don't give a flying F about coal usage, price, BS environmental concerns, virtue signaling, blah blah blah.

If an EV does what I want it to do, I'm all in. I would GLADLY drive an ev but I will not wait a minimum of 30 minutes for a charge and hope when I get to a station, there isn't a line.

When they are HONEST about the range, and I don't have to guess, when the battery life and replacement cost truly offsets the gas savings, when the infrastructure is normalized and charging stations are more abundant (not many around my neck of the woods), then and only then I will consider it. I'm glad you are happy, but I want more out of a $50k+ purchase.

It's not Fear, it is very much uncertainty and doubt because we know what we want out of a car, and right now, ev makers don't provide what I'm looking for.

This is my feelings. I believe EVs will take over the market. They just arnt there yet. When they truly out preform ICEs, they won?t need grants, rebates or tax incentives for people to buy them.

[Michael]

Well, you are in luck. Lines while not unheard of are also not common either. I've done countless road trips (probably totaling over 20k miles). Only once did I have to wait and even then, it was 2 minutes. Likewise, charging stops should only last about 20 minutes. I like to combine them with my bathroom/snack stops. During my last 1,000 mile trip to Las Vegas, I probably spent a grand total of 1 hour over 2 days just sitting and waiting in the car for it to charge. Rest of the time I was doing other things while the car charged. And if you pick the right charging network, you can get reliable real-time usage of the site before arriving. No need to wonder/hope when you know exactly what the situation is like ahead of you.



OK, so lots to unpack here. I hate to start with a whataboutism, but what about gas cars? Have you ever had one that could easily get the rated MPG? EVs are no different. Efficiency ratings are really meant for comparison between cars. As long as you stick to an EV with 250+ mile rating, it really doesn't matter anyway. I can't recall the last time I discharged mine below 40% in daily driving. It just doesn't matter when you start each day with a "full tank".

Batteries should last the life of the car (excluding the original Leaf) as replacements are very rare and even then usually done under a 8 year warranty that virtually all EVs come with. I don't know how long you keep a new car on average, but most don't keep them over 8 years. But even if you buy a used EV that's over 8 years old, it's still low risk. There was a recent article where they covered the odds of needing a battery replacement and show the data: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last Now I will agree that if you need a replacement, it's going to be expensive and that's not right. Usually most pack failures are simple things like BMS boards or thermistors. Most manufactures just swap the battery with a refurb and send the old pack back to the factory for repair. This makes sense in that you don't need a dealership tech trained in battery maintenance, but it also means they don't charge you for the actual fault in the battery. Hopefully as demand increases, there will be more 3rd party repair options. There are a few shops already that can do this at a fraction of the dealership cost.

As for charging infrastructure, why does it matter how many there are near where you live? You are thinking with a gas mentality, not EV. The vast majority of charging is done at home (about 90% of mine is done there). After all, why would I pay more for the inconvenience of not charging at home? I only care about public infrastructure where I travel to. And fortunately it's been over 7 years since I last took a trip where I couldn't drive an EV. Ever since then, I've had no issues charging on the road and at my destination.

Finally, both my EVs cost less then $50k. If you make less then $300k a year, you can get a performance Tesla Model 3 or Y for under that amount and be doing constant 0-60 in under 3 or 4 seconds with a real world range of about 250 or 200 miles. Even without the credit, both long range versions are under $50k.



All I ask is you actually take a closer look out there and not go by what those that don't even own an EV say. Are they perfect, no. But neither are gas cars. And for daily driving, they have a lot of advantages. And the "sacrifices" you make for road trips are not that bad or frequent (I actually prefer EV road trips over gas due to the comfort of the drive itself). I'm going on a 740 mile road trip next week to Montana in a single day (with a 4 year old). Once I get there, I'll report back and be 100% honest with you in what I experience. If I experience a line or down chargers, I'll let you know.

The HUGE difference in range and MPG is that in a ICE, range doesn't matter because it doesn't take 30-45 minutes to stop at the next gas station and be on my way....with a slurpee.

Range and MPG is, again, a HUGE difference.

I get that in an urban environment, range anxiety isn't really a thing. I live in the Appalachian Highlands. It's 10 miles to the closest gas station or fast food joint from where I sit in this moment. This is Northeast TN, not Atlanta. I seriously looked at a used Model 3 as my daily but I do plan on a lot of road trips and to be honest, I'm more worried about convience than saving money on gas.

Don't get me wrong...Moore's Law applies here. Charging times will get shorter, range will increase, cost will shrink.

It's just still too much for too little, for me....for now.

If you are happy with your ev, that is it's own reward.

[Chris4099]

Again, I just want to reemphasize that you don't generally have to charge for 30-45 minutes. You only have to do that if you want to charge the battery all the way up. Gas car mentality is not good for EVs. You charge to what you need to get to the next stop (with buffer) to take advantage of the charging curve. This keeps your stops to about 15-20 minutes after every 2 hours of driving. It sounds complex but the car navigation can do this for you if you wanted. It will alert you that you have enough charge to reach the next stop (which it also picks).

Here's a time-lapse video I made 6 years ago. It was 640 miles in each direction with 5 charging stops. I could have done it with 3 stops, but my bladder can't handle that, so I broke it into 5 to also take more advantage of the charging curve. This should give you an idea of how much you are spending between driving and charging (the time-lapse rate is unchanged through the whole video).


https://youtu.be/6mbDGe9FAtU?si=TnoJDdn0urxNBxKX

This was also done just before V3 Superchargers were released. If done today, I could probably have shaved another 10-20 minutes or so off each direction.

I'm not saying everyone should go out and buy an EV today. But to me, it's pretty obvious they can currently meet the vast majority of use cases now. The only part they lack in is towing, but even then they are making inroads. All I want is for people to be honest about what they actually do in a car and understand what an EV can actually do as well (not what somebody else that doesn't even own one has said).

On a side note (not directed to Michael), I've found it interesting how ironic the EV FUD is on a DeLorean forum. This topic has come up every now and then over the last decade or so. You would think with people that have to deal with other people saying things like "Isn't John DeLorean still in jail?" or "Is that an overweight aluminum kit car made in Canada?", that they themselves wouldn't fall for such bad information about other cars. :hmm:

[dn010]

keeps your stops to about 15-20 minutes after every 2 hours of driving.

So what you're telling us is that you can make a 6 hour drive in 6.75-7.0 hours with an EV compared to making a 6 hour drive in 6 hours like the majority of the rest of us?

[FABombjoy]

Some people like to get out and stretch, use the can, get some food.
A long drive takes a little longer. But you never having to stop at a station ever for regional use.
If you aren't long distance driving constantly the balance sheet works out.

If Timeless had EVs and went back to gas, I respect it. He formed his own opinion instead of adopting someone else's.

I won't be buying the Electrogenic kit because it's to expensive for what you get.
It would reduce my favorite weekend driving tour car to a "Point A to Point A" light use novelty. Hard pass.

Instead I'm building a gasoline engine for my DMC that will be light years from miserly.
A lot of us exist as car enthusiasts in both EV & gasoline spaces. If it has wheels I'll drive it. A LOT of us are like this.

[Chris4099]

So what you're telling us is that you can make a 6 hour drive in 6.75-7.0 hours with an EV compared to making a 6 hour drive in 6 hours like the majority of the rest of us?

Almost. As mentioned above, most people can't do 6 hours non-stop. 6 hours at say 70MPH is 420 miles. Many gas cars won't make that either. Of course to get that far you have to stop at the gas station before you hit the freeway and then again after 300 miles. So you need to take two stops minimum (probably more if you want to keep a healthy bladder). Also, don't forget EVs charge overnight, so you start with a "full tank" when leaving. So in that case, I would probably go 3 hours or 200 miles before first charging stop. With 220 miles left, I can do it with just one more stop assuming I have charging at the destination. If not, I might add a third stop to "top up" before arriving.

So assuming the charging station locations worked out, a 400 mile road trip will probably only take 15-30 minutes longer then gas. A 600 mile road trip would probably be closer to 1 hour. But if your time is so valuable that you can't sacrifice 1 more hour in the day for the drive, you should probably be flying there instead. :)

Also as mentioned above, during total time of ownership, I spend significantly less time with refueling my EVs. During normal daily driving, I spend 5 seconds in the morning and 5 seconds in the evening to unplug/plug the car. Even when factoring the extra time I spend at a quick charge station during road trips, my net time spent is still way less with EVs. I save further time by letting my 4 year old son plug the car in which he loves to do. Can't have him safely pump gas though. LOL

[Bitsyncmaster]

I would own a second car being EV for driving around town. But paying for it and insurance just to have an EV then makes no sense. My Toyota Camry can get 700 miles on a tank of highway driving if I really top off the tank. In the summer I get around 40 MPG driving around town. On a trip it gets over 45 MPG. It's the 8 speed transmission that lets it get that good MPG.

[dn010]

At least 3 of my 6 vehicles can go over 400, my Altima, xterra and my F150 with the 10 speed (as long as I run 89 and not E85) can do it. Former police officer so sitting in a car for over 6 hours was no problem, used to drive straight through from NY to FL.

None of that matters now because I'm ready to step on a plane for anything over a two hour drive. I have no hate for EVs, but as stated before they just aren't practical for me here in Florida. Some of the people I know who dumped their EV but liked the "idea" went to hybrids which I could possibly consider in the future. We will see what happens though, technology only gets better.

[Chris4099]

I'm going on a 740 mile road trip next week to Montana in a single day (with a 4 year old). Once I get there, I'll report back and be 100% honest with you in what I experience. If I experience a line or down chargers, I'll let you know.

Per above, I just finished a road trip to rural Montana. The car navigation said I could do the 719 miles in three charging stops that would add 1.5 hours to the 11.5 hour trip. However, I ignored that and instead did it with 5 charging stops. This reduced my charging time to 1.25 hours. This was because the more frequent stops allowed me to reduce the amount of charge required and by keeping that low, I was able to leverage the charging curve better (batteries with lower states of charge can accept more power). While 15 minute stops may seem like a long time, it's not. You would be surprised how long it actually takes to use the bathroom and grab a snack or eat a meal. We probably waited a grand total of 10-15 minutes just sitting in the car waiting for it to have enough to reach the next stop. So if we took a gas car for this trip, we would have arrived more tired (due to higher noise and vibration levels from a gas engine) without much time saved.

As for the charging itself, very uneventful. Busiest station was in Spokane, WA which had 8 chargers with 5 being in use. Even then, when I plugged in I still got the full 250kW power as expected. The other 4 stops had between 0 and 2 other cars charging when we arrived. Granted this was on a Wednesday, but I'll see how bad it is when return next Sunday. Total cost including the initial charge at home was just over $50 or 7 cents per mile.

[dmcman73]

Per above, I just finished a road trip to rural Montana. The car navigation said I could do the 719 miles in three charging stops that would add 1.5 hours to the 11.5 hour trip. However, I ignored that and instead did it with 5 charging stops. This reduced my charging time to 1.25 hours. This was because the more frequent stops allowed me to reduce the amount of charge required and by keeping that low, I was able to leverage the charging curve better (batteries with lower states of charge can accept more power). While 15 minute stops may seem like a long time, it's not. You would be surprised how long it actually takes to use the bathroom and grab a snack or eat a meal. We probably waited a grand total of 10-15 minutes just sitting in the car waiting for it to have enough to reach the next stop. So if we took a gas car for this trip, we would have arrived more tired (due to higher noise and vibration levels from a gas engine) without much time saved.

As for the charging itself, very uneventful. Busiest station was in Spokane, WA which had 8 chargers with 5 being in use. Even then, when I plugged in I still got the full 250kW power as expected. The other 4 stops had between 0 and 2 other cars charging when we arrived. Granted this was on a Wednesday, but I'll see how bad it is when return next Sunday. Total cost including the initial charge at home was just over $50 or 7 cents per mile.

Sorry, but you would be more tired due to higher noise and vibration levels from the gas engine? What did you use to drive, a diesel engine car with rotted motor mounts? I barely hear or feel the engine in my car and I take it on extremely long road trips. With the DeLorean, that's noisy and I can feel the engine, but not once has it made me tired of uncomfortable driving that long distances.

I think you're reaching here to make your case why you love your EV so much.

[Chris4099]

Sorry, but you would be more tired due to higher noise and vibration levels from the gas engine? What did you use to drive, a diesel engine car with rotted motor mounts? I barely hear or feel the engine in my car and I take it on extremely long road trips. With the DeLorean, that's noisy and I can feel the engine, but not once has it made me tired of uncomfortable driving that long distances.

I think you're reaching here to make your case why you love your EV so much.

Every EV owner I've ever talked to both in person and online has also said that driving their EV is just less tiring. If you were to actually drive an EV, you would feel this as well. There's just something about the lack of engine noise/vibration that makes it less fatiquing. Some also say it's the extra charging stops, but I'm not so sure about that. For example, I frequently drive up to Seattle for a day. That's just under 200 miles or 3.5 hours each way. I'm flat out exhausted after doing that in my D. This is with taking a pit stop in each direction (for gas and bathroom break). But when I do this in an EV, I don't feel like I've been driving all day. This is with the same single pit stop in each direction.

[Timeless]

No EV I have driven/owned compares to a 1500+ mile road trip in my 7-series or an S-Class with massaging seats + the works. Ive driven Detroit-Vegas-Colorado-Detroit in a 2006 E500 and it was a joy. Maybe someone can chime in who owns a EQS450 and share their experience.

[David T]

No EV I have driven/owned compares to a 1500+ mile road trip in my 7-series or an S-Class with massaging seats + the works. Ive driven Detroit-Vegas-Colorado-Detroit in a 2006 E500 and it was a joy. Maybe someone can chime in who owns a EQS450 and share their experience.

I just did a 1300 mile trip in an Escalade with adaptive cruse control and supercruise. I doubt you could have done it with an EV pulling a car trailer. It will be a while before you can say internal combustion cars are obsolete. I will admit I used a LOT of gas! I only got about 8 MPG. An EV would probably have taken twice as long to do the trip because of all of the charging necessary and that is assuming you could find charging stations along the way. Without charging stations, using an ordinary outlet takes even longer to recharge the batteries. Driving an EV takes a lot more planning especially doing interstate driving. As for not using all of that "Fossil Fuel", just how do you think most of the electric in the world is made? Only a small fraction of the electric produced is made by renewable sources or Nuclear. So EV's still use carbon producing fuels, just not locally.

[Chris4099]

I just did a 1300 mile trip in an Escalade with adaptive cruse control and supercruise. I doubt you could have done it with an EV pulling a car trailer. It will be a while before you can say internal combustion cars are obsolete. I will admit I used a LOT of gas! I only got about 8 MPG. An EV would probably have taken twice as long to do the trip because of all of the charging necessary and that is assuming you could find charging stations along the way. Without charging stations, using an ordinary outlet takes even longer to recharge the batteries. Driving an EV takes a lot more planning especially doing interstate driving. As for not using all of that "Fossil Fuel", just how do you think most of the electric in the world is made? Only a small fraction of the electric produced is made by renewable sources or Nuclear. So EV's still use carbon producing fuels, just not locally.

David,
I don't think you read my posts above. As already mentioned, almost no planning is required. The car tells you where to stop. There are also plenty of 3rd party sites/apps that can do the planning for you. No different then using GPS in any other car. If you do it enough, you don't even have to think about it. I just know where I'm going to stop as I've stopped there before. Can you provide a point A to point B trip in the US not sufficiently covered by DC charging stations? I can't! Fun Fact: If I wanted to, I could return from my current Montana vacation using a completely different set of charging stations then what I used to get here, using the exact same roads.

As for towing, while not as easy as using gas, it can and has been done plenty of times. Here's part 1 of a YouTube channel that hauled a car 1,300 miles from Seattle to Denver. And they did it using the EA network which doesn't have the best reputation these days. The F150 Lightning now has access to the Tesla Supercharger network which would have made that trip even easier. Very impressive how much we've come even in the last 5 years.
https://youtu.be/aGCokwJnntQ?si=ng09PyW54dJ9wijw

As for your very last statement, when did 40% become a "small fraction"? And with renewables now more cheaper then coal, this will only grow.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

As for the whole comfort thing further up, I would like to point out these cars are luxury cars with massive amounts of dampening to isolate and comfort the driver from the engine. Dampening that's not required for EV (kind of proves my point). I was talking more along the lines of a standard 4 door sedan/CUV compared to a similarly equipped EV. I shouldn't have brought up the D as that's really not far comparing such an old car.

[dn010]

massive amounts of dampening

Massive amounts? The 1989 Volvo 780 Bertone with the B280F engine was one of the smoothest running cars I've ever driven. It had one, maybe two dampening pistons (I can't remember which) on the engine in addition to the two engine mounts. Same engine installed in the DeLorean does not produce much vibrating at all. A well balanced engine doesn't need much.

[David T]

EV's are still an emerging technology competing against a much older but more mature technology. I agree at some point EV's will surpass internal combustion technology, we just disagree on when. Even when that happens there will still be a place for I/C technology. EV's need better batteries, faster charging times, and more charging stations. Incremental change takes time but it will happen. The free market also plays a role in how fast it happens. Too fast and you get massive economic disruptions. As for now, I/C cars are still the better choice for most people just considering economics. For many people who live in cities and have to park on the street, they can't charge their vehicles conveniently. As for converting a Delorean, it makes no sense unless you are using it as a daily driver and money doesn't matter. Renewables are only low cost right now because of massive government subsidies and renewables and Nuclear are less than 25% of all electric produced globally. In some areas that percentage may be higher but it also varies by season and weather.

[Chris4099]

Massive amounts? The 1989 Volvo 780 Bertone with the B280F engine was one of the smoothest running cars I've ever driven. It had one, maybe two dampening pistons (I can't remember which) on the engine in addition to the two engine mounts. Same engine installed in the DeLorean does not produce much vibrating at all. A well balanced engine doesn't need much.

Do I really have to explain how luxury vehicles have more sound insulation and dampening to isolate the occupants from road, wind and engine noise? Have you not noticed how lower end cars are louder inside? All I'm saying is you don't need as much of that with an EV. As for the gas engine, remember you are moving large lumps of metal back and forth with rapid direction changes. Along with that, you have thousands of explosions happening every minute. It's truly a miracle of modern engineering they run as smoothly as they do! But compared to a solid balanced lump of metal that's just spinning in a magnetic field, there's no comparison. All other things being equal, an EV will provide a much better experience.


EV's are still an emerging technology competing against a much older but more mature technology. I agree at some point EV's will surpass internal combustion technology, we just disagree on when. Even when that happens there will still be a place for I/C technology. EV's need better batteries, faster charging times, and more charging stations. Incremental change takes time but it will happen. The free market also plays a role in how fast it happens. Too fast and you get massive economic disruptions. As for now, I/C cars are still the better choice for most people just considering economics. For many people who live in cities and have to park on the street, they can't charge their vehicles conveniently.

I believe we are much further ahead then you realize in this technology. I've already disproven many of your outdated talking points. I agree that it's not for everyone yet. Especially if you can't L2 charge at home or work. DC fast charging only is not a great experience. Even if you can get it down to 5 minutes for 300 miles of range, it's still terrible compared to simply plugging in at home/work every day (I now loath taking my D to get gas). While I believe the DCQC infrastructure is now good enough to support current EV demands for the near future (it will obviously need to keep growing to keep up with demand), we really need to work on getting L2 infrastructure out there for those that can only street park or live in apartments. But if you are like me with a garage/driveway and have electrical service at your home, then an EV might be a more valid option then you realize! Just be honest with what you actually do and how often. Even if an EV won't somehow work for that road trip you take once/twice a year or haul that occasional load from Home Depot, you can still get a rental for that and then enjoy all the benefits of an EV for your daily driving needs.

[TheStoot]

Do I really have to explain how luxury vehicles have more sound insulation and dampening to isolate the occupants from road, wind and engine noise? Have you not noticed how lower end cars are louder inside? All I'm saying is you don't need as much of that with an EV. As for the gas engine, remember you are moving large lumps of metal back and forth with rapid direction changes. Along with that, you have thousands of explosions happening every minute. It's truly a miracle of modern engineering they run as smoothly as they do! But compared to a solid balanced lump of metal that's just spinning in a magnetic field, there's no comparison. All other things being equal, an EV will provide a much better experience.



I believe we are much further ahead then you realize in this technology. I've already disproven many of your outdated talking points. I agree that it's not for everyone yet. Especially if you can't L2 charge at home or work. DC fast charging only is not a great experience. Even if you can get it down to 5 minutes for 300 miles of range, it's still terrible compared to simply plugging in at home/work every day (I now loath taking my D to get gas). While I believe the DCQC infrastructure is now good enough to support current EV demands for the near future (it will obviously need to keep growing to keep up with demand), we really need to work on getting L2 infrastructure out there for those that can only street park or live in apartments. But if you are like me with a garage/driveway and have electrical service at your home, then an EV might be a more valid option then you realize! Just be honest with what you actually do and how often. Even if an EV won't somehow work for that road trip you take once/twice a year or haul that occasional load from Home Depot, you can still get a rental for that and then enjoy all the benefits of an EV for your daily driving needs.

You "loath" having to go and get gas in your Delorean? Wow dude, talk about FIRST world problems. That's quite a pathetic thing to complain about

[Michael]

One thing is for sure. EV lovers love their EV. EV haters love their ICE. Ev bi-curious types will eventually get into the game once the (real and perceived)shortcomings are addressed.


Also I read a story on Fox News how EVs are killing puppies and kittens...not to mention breaking up families because the men who own an ev eventually leave their wives for the muscular 28yr old personal trainer at the gym (who is always named "Jeff" or "Thomas").

[jackb]

I am a new (<1 year) EV owner (Tesla Model Y).
I?ve owned countless regular ICE vehicles over the decades.

The Tesla is better in pretty much every single aspect compared to its ICE counterpart. I was skeptical, but it is clear.
The ?nicest? vehicle I?ve otherwise owned is an Altima (which is my daily- the Tesla is my wifes). And for the last 8 years Ive found it extremely comfortable, smooth driving, quiet, efficient, and fast. Now it almost feels like driving a diesel truck.

The Tesla is *fast*. Like, holy shit fast.
It is smooth. 135 feels like you are on rails.
It is quiet. Pin drop silent, at all speeds/conditions.
It is comfortable.
It is luxurious. All the fancy things a luxury car can do with options it does better standard.
It is convenient. (I?ve never used for than a full tank of fuel driving a regular car around town, and with the Tesla charging overnight, I begin every day with a ?full tank?. No more gas station stops.)

Towing is not a factor for the Tesla and more than it would be for the Altima, or a Civic, or its similar competition. That?s not what it is for.
Long distance trips require planned stops for ICE cars, so literally no difference for the Tesla. Instead of fueling at a Costco and stretching my legs to go get a hot dog, I can either watch a movie or play a game or go inside wherever the SC is for the same thing. I haven?t done a long road trip yet, but absolutely do not expect it to affect the overall travel time at all. And if it does, it will be miniscule. In exchange for a vastly more comfortable drive, and lower cost of ownership.

[Chris4099]

You "loath" having to go and get gas in your Delorean? Wow dude, talk about FIRST world problems. That's quite a pathetic thing to complain about

I just returned from my trip and can now reply to this. Your response is what I think would be similar to those 100 years ago when indoor plumbing became available. "What's wrong with an outhouse? I've been using one my whole life." Trust me, until you experience refueling at home, you don't fully realize how terrible a gas station truly is since you are so used to it. You maybe fine with the smell, driving out of your way (unless you literally drive through a gas station on a daily basis, you are going out of your way to some extent), grabbing a handle that's been touched by hundreds of people a day and never cleaned, and finally trying to not spill a drop of gas on yourself or the car. Instead I touch a charging cord that only I or my family uses at home after I park.

As for my return from Montana, it was a bit more "exciting" then my drive there. At one stop that had 8 v2 stations, there were 4 cars already there. I plugged into an unused pair and got the full 144kW rate. About 5 minutes later (while I was in a store using the bathroom and getting a drink), somebody else pulled up to the pair and plugged in. This dropped me to 72kW. Not great and ultimately added about 5 minutes to my total charging time. When we returned, 7 cars were charging and before I left, an 8th car came in, so all spots were in use. No other cars came in and had to wait. But if they did and had a CCS adaptor, they could have used the EA station right next to the Tesla Superchargers. They are about twice the price but would have worked fine. If I was running 20 minutes later, I would have seen the realtime status of the location in my navigation and rerouted to another location about a mile away. The only drawback would have been it was a little more expensive and not next to a large store for easy bathroom and snack access. But I could have easily recharged and still be on my way with minimal effort.

Same with my next stop. No reduced charging rate though because it was a v3 site, but at one point all were full. No other cars had to wait and if they did show up, the wait would have been less then 5 minutes. Or they would have seen this in the navigation and go to the other location a mile away on the other side of the freeway.

Unlike my drive to Montana, my return was on a Sunday when there is a lot of roadtrip traffic returning home and the chargers get higher utilization. Still, never once did I have to wait. No long lines and no real issues/delays. So despite what you may occasionally read of long lines, that's the exception, not the rule.

So per my original point, once a conversion kit becomes available for the DeLorean that's both produced at a reasonable volume and priced well, I'll jump on that and ditch the PRV without looking back! The kit that this thread is about is not it though. Too expensive and not a real kit. I'm guessing they use new batteries too which could explain part of the high cost. With there being so many used parts/packs available now from wrecked production EVs, I would prefer to put in a used battery pack. That would keep the cost way down. Assuming the BMS and other components are serviceable, then the pack itself should also last a good 20 years as well. At that point, a replacement would probably be even more energy dense and cheaper.

[David T]

I think you are "stretching" to make your points. Here in New Jersey it is against the law to serve yourself and touch that "filthy" nozzle. Also here in New Jersey the vapors are recovered so you don't have those nasty gas fumes. BTW, how many people touch the charging cable that never gets cleaned? Or the handle on the bathroom door? EV's are not in everyone's future but they will become more and more commonplace. As for conversions, it probably makes more sense to buy an EV car rather than convert an IC car into an EV. That way you get a warranty, someone can service it, (the dealer) and it has some resale or trade-in value. Also there could be a problem getting insurance on something "home brewed". As the infrastructure (charging stations) get built up and more plentiful, charging will be less and less of an issue over time. Back when automobiles were first introduced, there weren't a lot of gas stations. Sometimes you had to find a hardware store or a paint store that sold gas or bring enough with you. Same with paved roads. In the beginning there were few, if any, paved roads. It takes a while for the infrastructure to catch up. Right now EV's look better economically than they should. Between government subsidies and not paying road taxes, the cost of owning and operating them can be lower than an IC car. When EV's are no longer subsidized and you pay road tax they won't look as good to own and operate. But maybe by then gas will be $10 a gallon and it will be illegal to make new cars unless they are EV's? Or maybe we will have flying EV's! Order your hover-conversion kit now! Now that's a conversion I would be interested in!

[Chris4099]

I think you are "stretching" to make your points. Here in New Jersey it is against the law to serve yourself and touch that "filthy" nozzle. Also here in New Jersey the vapors are recovered so you don't have those nasty gas fumes. BTW, how many people touch the charging cable that never gets cleaned? Or the handle on the bathroom door?

I can't believe I have to say this: Most Americans don't buy gas in New Jersey. My point was for most of us that would be pumping our own gas and therefore I mentioned the differences for daily driving. Not pumping gas in New Jersey versus only DC fast charging. But since you brought it up, back when Oregon had the same law, gas stations had minimal attendants. This meant that unless you wanted to pay way too much for gas, there would be lines. I assume New Jersey is the same? Next time you get gas, count to 30. After that, note that every second you are spending there is time you wouldn't be wasting with an EV for that week. You may not have to touch the filler, but you are probably loosing more time waiting for a station attendant to remove the filler and screw the gas cap back on. Also, even with vapor recovery systems (which not all states/counties require) there's still a gas smell.



EV's are not in everyone's future but they will become more and more commonplace. As for conversions, it probably makes more sense to buy an EV car rather than convert an IC car into an EV. That way you get a warranty, someone can service it, (the dealer) and it has some resale or trade-in value. Also there could be a problem getting insurance on something "home brewed". As the infrastructure (charging stations) get built up and more plentiful, charging will be less and less of an issue over time. Back when automobiles were first introduced, there weren't a lot of gas stations. Sometimes you had to find a hardware store or a paint store that sold gas or bring enough with you. Same with paved roads. In the beginning there were few, if any, paved roads. It takes a while for the infrastructure to catch up.

You've already brought up infrastructure and I've already debunked it (this isn't pre-2017). Or can you provide me two locations within the US that aren't reachable between each other via EV but are via normal gas cars? As for DeLorean EV conversions, the same points can be made about engine swaps. But I've already pointed out why I would only do it when there's a proper kit out there (much like I would never consider an engine swap that was a one off custom job). And half this thread is me explaining why an EV conversion would just make the car better to drive.


Right now EV's look better economically than they should. Between government subsidies and not paying road taxes, the cost of owning and operating them can be lower than an IC car. When EV's are no longer subsidized and you pay road tax they won't look as good to own and operate. But maybe by then gas will be $10 a gallon and it will be illegal to make new cars unless they are EV's? Or maybe we will have flying EV's! Order your hover-conversion kit now! Now that's a conversion I would be interested in!

This varies by the state, but even in New Jersey, EV owners have to pay an extra $250 a year on their registration to cover road taxes. Unless you are buying more then 591 gallons of gas, you are actually paying less in road taxes then EV owners! Finally for subsidies, the we spend far more on fossil fuel subsidies then we do on EV subsidies. There's a reason our gas is so much cheaper then other countries. If we eliminate both subsidies, then that would make EVs far more cheaper to operate over their lifespan.

[dn010]

There's a reason our gas is so much cheaper then other countries.

I love when people use this statement. Care to explain why gas is more expensive in other countries?

[Chris4099]

I love when people use this statement. Care to explain why gas is more expensive in other countries?

We are already pushing the no politics rules with mentioning subsidies (it's why I never mentioned it only only briefly replied to Dave's comment). So to keep it as simple as possible, we subsidize by not taxing the appropriate amount while other countries do.

[dn010]

It isn't "political" to say that many other countries use the increased price of gas to pay for their benefits, such as socialized medicine.

[David T]

We don't have long lines here in NJ except when people from other States (NY, PA) come to NJ for the cheaper gas and the attendant service. My point in mentioning NJ is to say there are differences State-to-State so you can't use general rules when trying to make a point. In some States it could make more sense to have an EV and in other States it may not. Also some States have more charging stations now than others. Over time things tend to even out. In some States electric is very expensive and in others not as much. Some States have different rates depending on the time of day. Right now EV's are not for everybody but we are getting closer. The way things are going someday you may not have a choice, IC cars could become a thing of the past. In that case old cars may actually become worth a lot more for those that want an IC car.