Door torsion bar stuck in retention plate

[Carbuilder]

I need to adjust the torsion bar on the passenger side door. It is opening a little too quickly and bouncing a bit at the top.

I've read a lot of posts on what is involved. I propped the door open, took the louvered cover off, put some foam over the glass. I loosened the bolts a few turns and am trying to get the plate to move rearwards but it won't move.

I've managed to tap a couple screw drivers under it, but that doesn't seem to help.

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I've sprayed some rust blaster stuff on the interface of the torsion bar and the plate; from the rear too since I have a gap now to do that. The screwdrivers have made a gap of about 1/8", but I don't see the front of the bar pulling out of the mount; maybe I have to look at it more closely. Or maybe I've bent the plate a little.

With the door propped open, how much torsion is left in the bar? I can't open it any more or it hits the T-panel. If I remove the T-panel can I open the doors enough to release all torsion? Then I suppose I can remove the plate with the torsion bar if they want to come out together. Or at least with no torsion on the system I can remove the bolts fully and pry under the plate a little better.

Suggestions?

Thank you,

Rick

[JohnnyK]

If you're not removing the torque being applied to the splines, then obviously they aren't going to slide rearward very easily. Unless I am missing something and you do have a bar on the torsion bar to turn it.

I'm not quite sure what your plan is right now.. Try to pry the plate off the back with tension still on the splines, without having a breaker bar on there??

(short story long: you (with someone else) need to be applying torsion to the bar to get the pressure of the splines.)

[82DMC12]

Well you're about 2 minutes from smashing your rear window and denting the T-panel, and possibly injuring yourself. That foam won't do shit.

Your problem is you have not relieved the tension on the torsion bar, this is a two person job unless you're expert-level. The torsion bar still has at least 30 degrees of twist in it right now. You have to have one person apply slight opposite pressure to the torsion bar using a 3/8" allen socket into a long extension and a long breaker bar, perhaps with a pipe on it, braced with a wooden brace that goes across the engine cover, this is outlined in an early DeLorean World article and includes plans for building the jig.

While one person is slightly tightening the bar, to increase tension and opposed the untwist tendency of the bar, the other person has to remove the M8 screws. You have to hold the spline plate straight so that the screws don't take the threads out with them, which is what's happening right now. Once the screws are out the plate can be backed off the bar, and then the other person can slowly unwind the bar until it's neutral.

71572

[poidog]

:popcorn:

[David T]

Even with the utmost care, on some cars the splines are messed up and you have to wiggle and force that retaining plate off VERY carefully after relieving all of the torsion forces. If you see the torsion bar moving out of the hinge you must stop. Get a pencil and mark the position on the torsion bar and retention plate so you can tell you are putting it back 1 spline less. Once you twist the torsion bar enough you will feel the bolts are loose and you should be able to remove them with your fingers. Be very cautious, on some cars I have seen the bolts all messed up and cross-threaded so be prepared to VERY SLOWLY relieve ALL of the torsion on the torsion bar so you can re-tap the threads. Have everything you can think of nearby and close at hand while doing this. There is a LOT of power in that torsion bar even with the door open so take every precaution you can. Make sure the Allen socket is ALL THE WAY in the torsion bar and you do not see any cracks. If the torsion bar is cracked you will not get the retention plate off because you are just expanding the splines. If you encounter any of these rare problems you must stop and get someone who has the skills to continue. Sometimes you can adjust what I call a 1/2 spline by just locking the retention plate turned a little tighter or a little looser but you probably do need to go looser by probably 1 spline.

[Carbuilder]

I was considering making one of those wooden fixtures. I?ll do that. I was asking how much torsion is left in the bar when the door is open to have an idea of how much force to put on the lever bar. Sounds like a fair bit of force is needed.

I appreciate the help I?ll adjust my method of going about this.

[Dickey]

If you remove the t-panel and gas strut you can open the door far enough to nearly remove all the tension on the torsion rod:

https://ls1dmc.com/images/dmc/dooradjust/dmc-trodadjust-01.jpg



To an extent that literally this is all you need and there is no concern with busting glass or wrecking stainless:

https://ls1dmc.com/images/dmc/dooradjust/dmc-trodadjust-04.jpg



https://ls1dmc.com/images/dmc/dooradjust/dmc-trodadjust-06.jpg

https://ls1dmc.com/images/dmc/dooradjust/dmc-trodadjust-08.jpg



Retention plate reference with door fully opened:

https://ls1dmc.com/images/dmc/dooradjust/dmc-trodadjust-09.jpg

[Bitsyncmaster]

With the T panel removed and the door vertical, you can slowly release the tension and the bracket will stop rotating just short off the rear glass. Then the bracket will just slide off easy.

[Carbuilder]

If you remove the t-panel and gas strut you can open the door far enough to nearly remove all the tension on the torsion rod:

To an extent that literally this is all you need and there is no concern with busting glass or wrecking stainless:



With the T panel removed and the door vertical, you can slowly release the tension and the bracket will stop rotating just short off the rear glass. Then the bracket will just slide off easy.

Thought I read that somewhere; now I know I did. Thank you.

My T-panel has some dents in it (actually more "out" than "in") that I wanted to get removed at some point. Makes sense now to remove it to get the torsion bar issue sorted out and get the T-panel fixed. The previous owner replaced the driver side torsion bar and the damage is above the retaining plate, so now I know how it got there.

Rick

[Dickey]

Thought I read that somewhere; now I know I did. Thank you.

My T-panel has some dents in it (actually more "out" than "in") that I wanted to get removed at some point. Makes sense now to remove it to get the torsion bar issue sorted out and get the T-panel fixed. The previous owner replaced the driver side torsion bar and the damage is above the retaining plate, so now I know how it got there.

Rick

Yeah, it is a simple one man job unless you aim to have someone take pictures/video while you're doing it. All in from the jump you're looking at 10 minutes on the upper end. Bear in mind, I do not run louvres because of the neighbors we had growing up so if those are in place it would be a bit longer.

[82DMC12]

With the T panel removed and the door vertical, you can slowly release the tension and the bracket will stop rotating just short off the rear glass. Then the bracket will just slide off easy.Have you actually done this? I tried this urban legend myself while having my T panel off and it's not true. There remains too much twist, vertical is nowhere near enough, it would have to be hyperextended backwards to the balance limit like in Dickey's picture to work.

There are only three or four adjustment options available in the splines that will result in a usable door at, say 75F. You would have droopy doors unless you use very strong pistons sitting in the sun in order to have the bar slide out even past vertical.

For the hell of it I tried many adjustments just to see and it doesn't work. I think Bill Robertson has been spreading this legend.

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[82DMC12]

Also, OP, are you seriously trying to remove the torsion bar with the gas strut in place?

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[David T]

Assuming you could remove all of the torsion force by over-extending the door, that would also assume the torsion bar is not over-torqued. Too many assumptions. I personally have seen the results of not releasing all of the torsional forces and it isn't pretty. Taking short cuts, unless you know what you are doing, can result in unforeseen consequences. It is your car and you can do to it whatever you want but no one wants to see anyone get hurt. Make the jig and get the proper tools. With the louvers removed you don't need the jig or an extension, just a 1/2" breaker bar, a 3/8 allen socket and a 5' cheater pipe. Do not use a ratchet. I do NOT recommend getting your tools at Hobo Freight, at least for this job.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Have you actually done this? I tried this urban legend myself while having my T panel off and it's not true. There remains too much twist, vertical is nowhere near enough, it would have to be hyperextended backwards to the balance limit like in Dickey's picture to work.

There are only three or four adjustment options available in the splines that will result in a usable door at, say 75F. You would have droopy doors unless you use very strong pistons sitting in the sun in order to have the bar slide out even past vertical.

For the hell of it I tried many adjustments just to see and it doesn't work. I think Bill Robertson has been spreading this legend.

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Yes I have done it on both doors. I think I'm the original owner that posted this first. I did this about 20 years ago after the group at a tech event could not get the bracket off. They even scratched the rear glass.

[82DMC12]

Yes I have done it on both doors. I think I'm the original owner that posted this first. I did this about 20 years ago after the group at a tech event could not get the bracket off.I'm sure you had assistance to make sure the door didn't tip over backwards on the roof and disconnected the wire harness first? I was not interested in testing that limit and certainly would not advise someone who's never done it before that "it'll just slip out". The two man job with brace makes it pretty easy while still respecting the inherent danger to body and car.

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[Bitsyncmaster]

I'm sure you had assistance to make sure the door didn't tip over backwards on the roof and disconnected the wire harness first? I was not interested in testing that limit and certainly would not advise someone who's never done it before that "it'll just slip out". The two man job with brace makes it pretty easy while still respecting the inherent danger to body and car.

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I only opened vertical. So a long support pole to keep it from closing. I did this all alone.

[82DMC12]

I only opened vertical. So a long support pole to keep it from closing. I did this all alone.These two marks indicate how much twist remains in the bar at the show door position. The door would have to be far beyond vertical to remove the bar without the spline plate. It's possible the bars could lose power over the years but if I had followed that advice I'd have damaged my car. In the end I detuned my bar by one tooth because it was too strong in the middle of summer with the sun beating on the car. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250429/74383093397d88f8aaecea9813c1e797.jpg

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[Rich]

Answer: ~60ft-lb of torque is transmitted from the torsion bar splines into the plate with the door propped open and the plate bolts still threaded at least partially into the roof. This is why the plate refuses to slide backward so far.


I need to adjust the torsion bar on the passenger side door. It is opening a little too quickly and bouncing a bit at the top.

With the door propped open, how much torsion is left in the bar? I can't open it any more or it hits the T-panel.

Do not remove the plate without first counteracting that torque, even if you somehow could manage to slide the plate off first.

Get the proper tools and instructions before attempting this job. And find an assistant.

With the correct info and equipment you will get the the plate off. You will then also be able to get the plate back ON, something your approach so far doesn't allow for. In other words, you'll need to do the job the normal way for the adjustment and for putting it back together.

[Carbuilder]

Yeah, it is a simple one man job unless you aim to have someone take pictures/video while you're doing it. All in from the jump you're looking at 10 minutes on the upper end.

You're right. Once the louvered panel was off and the other plastic piece to expose the torsion bar retaining plate, and once I knew what I was doing, about 5 minutes to get the torsion bar adjusted. Didn't bother with a wooden jig, removing the T-panel, or helper (I really like to work alone whenever I can). Took the torque off the torsion bar with a pipe over the handle of a 1/2" flex handle, removed the bolts, let the torsion relax by one tooth, and put the plate back on. Door works beautifully now.


Also, OP, are you seriously trying to remove the torsion bar with the gas strut in place?

No, I wasn't removing the torsion bar, just adjusting it by one tooth.


Answer: ~60ft-lb of torque is transmitted from the torsion bar splines into the plate with the door propped open

Yes, it seemed like about that much. Much more than I expected. Glad I had the pipe over the socket handle.

In the end, with the help/advice from here, it all went smoothly.

Rick

[82DMC12]

No, I wasn't removing the torsion bar, just adjusting it by one tooth.

Same thing, it cannot be done the way you were trying to do it. Have you priced out how much a new rear window costs?


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[Bitsyncmaster]

The problem is doing it the conventional way. You have someone holding the counteracting torque while you pull the bracket off to rotate is one notch is you can't pull the bracket. The torque holding it is causing the splines to bind. So you need to reduce that torque. The group at that tech meet gave up on mine. It was the same problem, bouncing really bad when the door was opened. Now these days the vendors have the soft lift struts which may fix your problem without an adjustment.

[Carbuilder]

The problem is doing it the conventional way. You have someone holding the counteracting torque while you pull the bracket off to rotate is one notch is you can't pull the bracket. The torque holding it is causing the splines to bind. So you need to reduce that torque. The group at that tech meet gave up on mine. It was the same problem, bouncing really bad when the door was opened. Now these days the vendors have the soft lift struts which may fix your problem without an adjustment.

I don't quite follow. If you are counteracting the torque then there is no torque holding the bracket on. "The torque holding it is causing the splines to bind"...there is no torque.

I held the counteracting torque with one hand on a long pipe extension onto the hex drive on the torsion bar. The other hand, with a smaller ratchet loosened then removed, the 2 bolts holding the plate on. By moving the pipe/extension counteracting the torque both ways slowly there was a position where the bolts had virtually no drag. Removed them, slid the plate off the splines, released the long handle slightly to align the next notch in the spline in the plate with the torsion bar (I wanted it 1 tooth "looser"), reinstalled the bolts and tightened them up....all the while holding the counteracting torque. Took longer to type this then to actually do it.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I don't quite follow. If you are counteracting the torque then there is no torque holding the bracket on. "The torque holding it is causing the splines to bind"...there is no torque.

I held the counteracting torque with one hand on a long pipe extension onto the hex drive on the torsion bar. The other hand, with a smaller ratchet loosened then removed, the 2 bolts holding the plate on. By moving the pipe/extension counteracting the torque both ways slowly there was a position where the bolts had virtually no drag. Removed them, slid the plate off the splines, released the long handle slightly to align the next notch in the spline in the plate with the torsion bar (I wanted it 1 tooth "looser"), reinstalled the bolts and tightened them up....all the while holding the counteracting torque. Took longer to type this then to actually do it.

The splines are twisting a little. I never thought that could happen but when all the torque was off the bracket, it just slipped out with your fingers. It may help if your hex tool fits tighter. I measured a few and there was a few thousands difference.

[DMC VIN 6639]

I have been in this position before. Like everyone said, pull the T panel, extend the door farther. Pull both plate bolts. Then get behind the plate with a larger screw driver or prybar and you will either work the plate off the spline or work the torsion bar out of the front hinge. Either way you need to get the bar out and see if the spline area has mushroomed.

[JRNY13]

All this because the passenger door opens a little too quickly? I would have tried a weaker strut.

[Carbuilder]

All this because the passenger door opens a little too quickly? I would have tried a weaker strut.

Not the correct way to fix it. I have the proper Delorean struts, so the issue is the torsion bar not adjusted correctly. Maybe playing around with different struts would help, but it would be a guessing game as to how much less force to go with a new strut.

[David T]

If you have trouble sliding the retention plate off it can be because the allen socket in the torsion bar has split. When you counter-act the torque you expand the splines making it very difficult to remove the retention plate. That is why in an earlier post I mentioned checking the end to see if there is a crack. When I was doing door adjustments for the club, if I encountered this, we declined to do an adjustment. Too dangerous with all of the people around and we didn't have the time or the tools. If a torsion bar is over-torqued it is very hard on the roof structure. Usually done to compensate for weak, old struts. Once a torsion bar is properly adjusted you should NEVER AGAIN have to adjust it. If the door won't open all the way it is time to replace the strut.