Any you guys use Enviro-safe r12?

[Helirich]

Ordered some r12 replacement stuff off the bay. Is it snake oil?

[Rich]

Never heard of it.
You can check online to see review lists like this one (https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/has-anyone-used-envirosafe-refrigerant.326442/) for it.

Guessing it's a propane-based R-12 swap-in like the one from RedTek, also sold on eBay.

[Mark D]

It's not snake oil in the sense that it actually does work. It seems like people that use it though are doing so as a DIY solution to limp along a leaking R12 system. R12A refrigerants like Enviro-safe, Redtek, etc. are cheaper and more available compared to real R12, so it's easier to justify topping off a leaky system with a can once in a while rather than wasting expensive (and sometimes hard to find) cans of R12.

One thing to consider though, if you decide to go with R12A you will essentially be locking yourself in to a DIY-only path moving forward where no shop is going to want to touch your car with a contaminated system. I'm assuming you have your own manifold/gauge set with the correct end fittings for R12?

I'm not sure of your exact situation, but if your car is low on refrigerant you should really find the source of the leak first and fix it. Then it would be worth the cost of recharging with R12 instead of going with an R12 alternative. My car has a really slow leak that needs a can of R12 every 3-4 years and I should really take my own advice and fix whatever is leaking.

Otherwise where I'm probably going to end up myself in the future is converting over to R134a. It can be a big expense up front to convert depending on what components you end up needing to replace, but R134a is readily available, cheap, and once the car is converted any shop that services A/C will be able to work on it. There aren't many places around anymore that have R12 equipment. Currently if I need to top off my car I've been driving it a couple of hours to DMC Midwest.

One other issue that some people have with R12A is that it's made with a mix of propane and isobutane, so it is flammable. This causes some people to freak out, but I don't understand why a few ounces of flammable refrigerant being on board is an issue when there are already 12+ gallons of gasoline in the fuel tank. The automotive industry has begun adopting R1234yf as the standard refrigerant in new cars, and that is also a flammable like R12A. \_(ツ)_/

[David T]

There are what is called "drop-in" replacements for R-12. A lot of different names, they are all "blended" refrigerants. They have their pros and cons. I use R-414a. I also recommend adding a leak sealer. It will seal a small leak, the good ones actually do work. If you can get your system really tight just stay with the R-12. As good as drop-in's are, nothing beats R-12. For any leaky system make sure you check the oil level in the compressor. As your refrigerant leaks out it takes oil with it. After several "top-offs" your system gets low on oil. Best to remove all of the old oil from the compressor and fill with fresh. I also suggest pulling a really hard vacuum for at least an hour to dry out the desiccant if you are not going to replace the accumulator. Replace the service valve cores. NEVER use tire valve cores. Get A/C valve cores and use a metal cap instead of the plastic dust cover.

[Helirich]

Well I got 3 cans for a test. I put one can in and it?s blowing colder than it ever has. I didn?t drive it, but that will be soon. I will up date this thread after a bit.

[bytes311]

Last summer, I added two 6oz cans of Enviro-Safe R12A to my car, and it blew cold. A local AC guy was selling them, so I went with that instead of ordering RedTek from Amazon.

[dn010]

I'd like to know what blowing cold means. As in, what temperature are you getting at the vent and what temperature is it outside.

[bytes311]

I'd like to know what blowing cold means. As in, what temperature are you getting at the vent and what temperature is it outside.
71722

I last checked in April. According to Google it was approximately 75*F degrees outside.

[dn010]

Nearly 50 degree difference from ambient temp to your vent surface temp, and you're also not freezing the evaporator up? :umm:

[bytes311]

Nearly 50 degree difference from ambient temp to your vent surface temp, and you're also not freezing the evaporator up? :umm:

Admittedly, I haven't driven the car for extended periods with the AC on. Maybe 45 minutes to an hour at the most? I set my low pressure switch to cut out around 21-22 psi, and so far I haven't had any issues with the evaporator freezing up. Knock on wood.

[Helirich]

So I drove it today with the thermometer in the vent. It was 90 degrees before I started. Turned the AC on max and drove to Lowe?s. It?s about 7 miles. In half a mile, the temp was at 48 degrees. In the remaining time, it went down to 45-46. By the time I got to Lowe?s, it was cold in the car. My vent fan only runs at the highest setting. (Another thing to fix)

Anyways, I?m totally happy with those numbers. And I do believe they are the coldest I have ever obtained on this car.

Great right? Not so fast.

When I came out of Lowe?s and headed home, the temp went right to 48 again and stayed there till about 3/4 of the way home. Than it just stopped blowing cold. When I was filling the Freon, I noticed the high side was not showing pressure. I thought it was my old R12 guage set or the high side hose. Now I believe I have a clog in the return line. Once the Freon is all pumped through the evaporator, the low pressure switch cuts off the pump. I verified this by starting it again later. Ice cold again. I didn?t run it long enough to pump it down, but you get the idea.

I?ve heard about a clogged line before, but never run across one in all the systems I?ve worked on. Is there any place on the Delorean that I should be looking at? Like a place that the frame pinches the line?

[dn010]

With the engine off, the gauge should show the same pressure on both the low and high side. If your high is showing 0, either something is wrong with your gauge/connection or your service port. Press on the valve quickly and see if it releases any refrigerant. If your high side has rest pressure but is not building pressure, I'd start looking at the orifice tube.

[David T]

You are correct, you had a clog. If you did not dry out the system enough by pulling a hard vacuum, the moisture in the system froze and plugged up the orifice tube. Once you shut the system down, the ice melted and the clog disappeared. The fix is to remove the refrigerant and pull a hard vacuum for a while till you can boil all of the moisture out. The test is to shut off the vacuum pump and watch the gauge. If it starts rising (and you don't have any leaks) what you are seeing is more moisture still in the system, boiling and raising the pressure.

[Helirich]

Ok, new info.

I went out and hooked up my gauge set. The red ?high side? hose doesn?t work. Not sure why, but I hooked up the yellow hose in its place. (On car and on gauge set) Before starting, the low side reads 85 psi. The high side reads 100 psi. Not sure why the difference, but could be the old gauges.

Started the car and turned the AC on max. I pulled the throttle linkage to a high idle. The low side reads 30 psi and the high side is 220 psi. I check the vent and it?s cold. My dryer is in the pax side wheel well and I reached inside and it felt cool. (Not freezing)

I didn?t want to drive with the gauges on it, so I unhooked them and capped the valves. I took the car out on the road till the AC quit. I immediately drove home. (About 5 minutes) first I checked the accumulator/dryer. No frost, not even cool. Then I hooked the gauges back up. The compressor clutch was not turning. The low side was 95 psi and the high side was 100 psi. Again, not sure why they don?t read the same, but minor difference.

The only weird thing I noticed was when I hooked up the high side hose, it seem to leak solid oil before I got it threaded the whole way down. (Maybe that?s normal)

At this point, I?m thinking one of two things.

1. The low pressure switch is no good. Strange way to fail, but who knows?

2. The compressor is getting choked with oil. I?ve heard of a compressor locking up with liquid, but I thought that would wreck it and it wouldn?t work again later.

I?m thinking of bypassing the low pressure switch. Anybody think that?s a bad idea?

[dn010]

First, a little back story as to what you're dealing with would be really helpful. (Did you replace something? Did it leak? Did you flush the system? Did you vacuum it down? Did you mix the envirosafe with another refrigerant already in the system? Why do you think there is too much oil?)

Second, get a set of good gauges. 25psi is a big difference between if the gauge is off and you can't be sure the low gauge is accurate now. Hard to tell what is going on with your charge if we don't have accurate readings.

Third. Need to know what the ambient temp is in order to be able to know what your pressures should be. I'm guessing around 80 by your rest pressure.

More: You can bypass the switch if you think it is at fault but a replacement low pressure switch is less than $15 on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/UAC-SW-1122-R134AC-Clutch-Switch/dp/B003R42YMS
Or just go to your local parts place and pick one up, 1990 Corvette uses the same switch and accumulator.
Service port will discharge a little oil when you disconnect it. What makes you think the system has too much oil in it, did you add any?
If you're not sure, you may end up having to empty the system, drain the oil, flush and start over. Hopefully not yet and it is something simple.

[Helirich]

First, a little back story as to what you're dealing with would be really helpful. (Did you replace something? Did it leak? Did you flush the system? Did you vacuum it down? Did you mix the envirosafe with another refrigerant already in the system? Why do you think there is too much oil?)

Second, get a set of good gauges. 25psi is a big difference between if the gauge is off and you can't be sure the low gauge is accurate now. Hard to tell what is going on with your charge if we don't have accurate readings.

Third. Need to know what the ambient temp is in order to be able to know what your pressures should be. I'm guessing around 80 by your rest pressure.

More: You can bypass the switch if you think it is at fault but a replacement low pressure switch is less than $15 on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/UAC-SW-1122-R134AC-Clutch-Switch/dp/B003R42YMS
Or just go to your local parts place and pick one up, 1990 Corvette uses the same switch and accumulator.
Service port will discharge a little oil when you disconnect it. What makes you think the system has too much oil in it, did you add any?
If you're not sure, you may end up having to empty the system, drain the oil, flush and start over. Hopefully not yet and it is something simple.

Basically, this started without me doing anything. I took it for a drive and the AC quit after some 20 miles. I parked it and took another car. When I came back a few hours later it worked. At that time, it had only R12 in it and it properly didn’t get that cold. This car has had a very slow leak, so I figured it needed some Freon. I installed on 8 Oz can of the Enviro-safe stuff and it blows very cold. That’s great, but it didn’t solve the shutting down after 10-15 minutes.

Now for the next addition to this story. I went back out there after my last post. I rigged up a power wire to turn on the compressor. I started the car and turned the AC to max. Before hooking my power wire up, I checked the plug that feeds power to the compressor clutch. It had power. So I plugged it in and the AC worked as normal. This is strange because it recovered so quick.

So I figured I would run it till it shut off again before using my jumper power. Would you believe I ran it for 15 minutes in the garage and it wouldn’t shut off? If I shut the door, it wouldn’t get so cold in the car that fog would form on the outside of the glass. I got sick of waiting, but it’s raining now and I didn’t feel like getting the car muddying. (I live on a dirt road)


So I guess I will wait till I can take the car out again to test. What would driving do to make it shut down? I was running the idle up in the garage, so it’s not the high RPMs.

[dn010]

R12a is an alternative to R12 for an empty system, it was not meant to be added to a system that is already charged. They really should not be mixed (it?s illegal to mix them, blah blah), could it work? Maybe, but both gasses have different properties and there is no telling what is going on in your system now.

[Helirich]

R12a is an alternative to R12 for an empty system, it was not meant to be added to a system that is already charged. They really should not be mixed (it?s illegal to mix them, blah blah), could it work? Maybe, but both gasses have different properties and there is no telling what is going on in your system now.

The net is not quite clear on this.

71724

In any case, the problem preceded the can of Enviro safe, so I wouldn?t say it is the cause.

[dn010]

Notice it says replacement, not additive. Regardless, it is illegal to mix any refrigerants together. Look at envirosafes Q&A if you need more info. R12a is not meant to go into a system already filled with R12. The two refrigerants have different properties. Just google if you can mix R12a with R12 and you?ll probably get all sorts of info. Maybe the pressure differences are causing your low pressure switch to freak out.

The problem preceding the addition of the r12a just seems to be low R12 refrigerant. Now you have a few different variables added. The gasses run at different pressures. Try a new low pressure switch or adjust the one you have.

[Helirich]

So my curiosity got the better of me and it stopped raining. I pulled the gauges off and took the car for a ride to the gas station. Filled it up and drove home. This was more than twice as long as my ride earlier. The AC never quit. In fact it got down to a vent temp of 40 degrees. I had condensation on all the windows and even some on the stainless doors. I don?t know what to make of it.

The only thing I can think of is it?s cooler outside now after the rain. It was high 80?s earlier and now it?s low 80?s, maybe even high 70?s. I suppose that explains the vent temp going down, but I don?t see how that affects this problem. Is it possible that the AC needs to be exercised regularly? The car did sit for a few months before this started. I guess I will test it again when it?s over 90 outside. I probably won?t have to wait long. Would be great if it fixed itself.

[David T]

Check the end of your blue (low side) hose. Make sure the little metal tab is still inside, it depresses the valve core so you can read pressure. Zero your gauges before you hook up, if they are off more than a LB or 2 one of them is not accurate, maybe you dropped them? DO NOT bypass the low pressure switch except during charging. It is possible the moisture has been absorbed by the desiccant and now you aren't freezing up anymore. Make sure your compressor is cycling on and off, that is what keeps the evap coil from freezing.