New Owner - Check me on my wheel upgrade calculations?

[Wayne 962]

Hi all. New owner here. I'll post more details later on, but I'm looking to upgrade wheels. See attached image for the look I'm going for:

71747

The wheels closest matching these appear to be the Konig Dekagram - pretty cool in my opinion. Screenshot from their website attached:

71748

Available sizes of the Konig wheels:

15x7.5 35mm
15x8 25mm
15x9 35mm
16x8 35mm
17x8 45mm


I'm pretty sure that the specs for stock wheels are as follows:

Front:
Diameter: 14 inches
Width: 6 inches
Offset: +35mm
Tire: 195/60 R14

Rear:
Diameter: 15 inches
Width: 8 inches
Offset: +19mm
Tire: 235/60/R15

The goal would be to upgrade the wheels to a more modern and larger style.

I'm thinking the following might work:

Front:
Diameter: 16 inches
Width: 8 inches (concerned about this being too wide)
Offset: +35mm
Tire: 195/50 R16

Here's the comparison on this from tiresize.com :

71749

Rear:
Diameter: 17 inches
Width: 8 inches (concerned about this being too wide)
Offset: +45mm
Tire: 255/45 R17

Spacer of about 1" would be needed.

71750

I know from past experience with wheels and tires that it's not always as simple as measuring and figuring it out - different tires have different sizing, even with the same sizes printed on the side of the tire! Also, I would have to run a spacer in the rear - not an issue, but an added complication for sure.

Thanks in advance, and please let me know you thoughts or concerns if there's something I may have missed?

Thanks,

Wayne

[WHO1DMC]

Congratulations on your purchase! Welcome to the D ownership family.
Delorean Midwest will have 16 and 17 inch Delorean style wheels in a few months.
Delorean Midwest.com



Dave B.

[Josh]

Fitting larger wheels to these cars varies, as the panels hang differently from car to car. Here are some notes you should consider:

Do not limit yourself to the stock wheel specs. The wheels are inset quite a bit from factory relative to the fenders, going to a larger wheel this will be exaggerated.
However, changing the offset to poke the wheels more will require things like fender rolling, trimming, and repositioning fenders. There can be a happy medium here but something to be aware of.

The wheels are not centered in the wheel wells on any car I have found. Ride height (lowering) your car amplifies this. There are ways around this, involves moving around suspension components. Once again, more of a concern if you increase the offsets.

You can run a wheel wider than a 7" in the front, people run the stock rears in the front, however this varies from car to car. depending on your offset and suspension setup you will rub the sway bar. I have had stock cars rub the sway bar.

Wheel width in the rear is less of a concern as the wheel diameter increases, you are concerned of clearing the lower shock mount. Once again this is a function of the offset as well as the diameter.


I am running a 17x9 in the rear and a 16x7 in the front. I have increased my offsets in such a way that it has increased the track width a good 25mm per corner all around. This is not for the faint of heart and required alot of planning and finessing.

I like your tire size for the rear, that is what I run. However it may balloon a bit on a 8" wheel and would have you consider a 245. The front I would strongly implore you to consider a 205/45/16. a 195 on a 8" wide wheel is far too narrow. The 205 is really suited to a 7" or 7.5", a 8" is pushing it on a lower profile tire. As mentioned be very careful up front with increasing the overall tire diameter it can bring you alot of headaches.

The wheels from delorean midwest (pureforged) do not match with the stock offsets and are likely to rub especially on a lowered car.

[David T]

The braking system and suspension was set up for the size wheels (rims) that are spec'd for the car. Changing them will alter the car's handling and braking. You must also figure out the correct tire pressure. Unless you know what you are doing, changing the wheels and tires just for a certain look is not a good idea. The Delorean does not have a proportioning valve to set the bias front-to-rear for the brakes, changing the tire sizes will change how the brakes work and there is no easy way to change the braking bias unless you add a proportioning valve. Going to larger sizes will add "Unsprung Weight" so the suspension should be adjusted to accommodate that. Means adjustable shocks, that also allows you to adjust ride height which you may need for more clearance from the body. This can get complicated and expensive. Another problem is finding matching tires for the different sizes in the front and the rear. Not too many tire manufacturers offer the same style in different sizes anymore. The good news is you will be able to sell your old rims for good money if they are in good shape. Remember to make sure whatever you do to modify things you can still put a spare tire on the car! When adding spacers make sure the studs are long enough to properly hold the lug nuts and you use the correct lug nuts with the proper angle for the rims. If you change the size of the lug nuts you must change the lug nut wrench so you can put the spare on.

[L3V3L1]

IMHO no aftermarket wheels look anywhere close to as good as the turbine style, stock wheels do. The 16",17" upgrade wheels look great

[Carbuilder]

The braking system and suspension was set up for the size wheels (rims) that are spec'd for the car. Changing them will alter the car's handling and braking.... you must change the lug nut wrench so you can put the spare on.

Wayne 962: Here is some info that will help you. Don't be put off by those that think this is a bad/dangerous idea. It isn't for everyone and for some reason those that don't like it are very vocal on the point.

I'm willing to bet that the people that have done this, like myself, don't find any noticeable difference in braking or handling. I've got 16"/17" wheels with low profile tires, so the outer diameter of the tire is unchanged from stock. So braking should not be any different. As for handling, in theory the added unsprung weight would make a difference. But then when we do this mod we lower the suspension (most significantly in the front) so with a lower C of G the handling improves. So the overall handling effect? Nothing that I notice.

As for a spare tire, Hagerty insurance takes care of that with their included flat-bed towing. And the 1" "spacer" on the rear is really an adapter, so it bolts to the suspension hub and then the wheel bolts to that. Stock studs are fine.

Not wanting to start a debate, but I've done it and am very happy with it.

There are details on my wheel/tire swap in this thread, starting at post #80. Be aware that most people, that haven't done it, posted information, the accuracy of which, you will have to judge for yourself.

https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?20202-Front-wheels-far-forward-in-opening-(and-rear-tire-clearance)/page8

[Michael]

The braking system and suspension was set up for the size wheels (rims) that are spec'd for the car. Changing them will alter the car's handling and braking. You must also figure out the correct tire pressure. Unless you know what you are doing, changing the wheels and tires just for a certain look is not a good idea. The Delorean does not have a proportioning valve to set the bias front-to-rear for the brakes, changing the tire sizes will change how the brakes work and there is no easy way to change the braking bias unless you add a proportioning valve. Going to larger sizes will add "Unsprung Weight" so the suspension should be adjusted to accommodate that. Means adjustable shocks, that also allows you to adjust ride height which you may need for more clearance from the body. This can get complicated and expensive. Another problem is finding matching tires for the different sizes in the front and the rear. Not too many tire manufacturers offer the same style in different sizes anymore. The good news is you will be able to sell your old rims for good money if they are in good shape. Remember to make sure whatever you do to modify things you can still put a spare tire on the car! When adding spacers make sure the studs are long enough to properly hold the lug nuts and you use the correct lug nuts with the proper angle for the rims. If you change the size of the lug nuts you must change the lug nut wrench so you can put the spare on.

You can't be serious. The stock brakes are some of the absolute worst I have ever experienced. I would even make the argument they are downright dangerous. The wheel/tire sizes were determined to try and alleviate the MASSIVE rear weight bias that exists and here you are worried about negatively affecting the handling? To put it bluntly, it's a poorly engineered car for the market for which it was created with a bunch of last minute "fixes". Here we are over 40 years later and you are still clinging on to the OE stamp as the benchmark of safety and reliability of a car I wouldn't trust at 100mph hitting a squirrel in the road keeping it's composure.

[ssdelorean]

... <<snip>>..... I wouldn't trust at 100mph hitting a squirrel in the road keeping it's composure.

I did just that and am here to say it is LOUD bouncing against the under side of the tub but was able to keep composure and a straight line.

My car is lowered and has the front ground effect. The little guy had NO chance of survival. :)

[Timeless]

You can't be serious. The stock brakes are some of the absolute worst I have ever experienced. I would even make the argument they are downright dangerous. The wheel/tire sizes were determined to try and alleviate the MASSIVE rear weight bias that exists and here you are worried about negatively affecting the handling? To put it bluntly, it's a poorly engineered car for the market for which it was created with a bunch of last minute "fixes". Here we are over 40 years later and you are still clinging on to the OE stamp as the benchmark of safety and reliability of a car I wouldn't trust at 100mph hitting a squirrel in the road keeping it's composure.
He's weird - we'll never understand. Correct about the brakes - I'm installing Miata/Wilwood front brakes.

[David T]

Because everything is a compromise between engineering and economics, the car was never meant to be what we today would call "High Performance". Lotus did the best they could given the parameters they had to work with. The main point of my post is that if you decide to modify something on the car (besides cosmetics) you must take into account how it will affect all of the other of the car's characteristics. As for not noticing any difference, unless you get near the operational limits you won't know how your changes will affect the handling. A panic stop on a wet road is not when you want to find out the front wheels lose grip before the rear ones and now you are just "along for the ride". Whenever you make changes for a certain look, you must accept that it can adversely affect the car's handling. The Delorean was never meant to be a track car but if you want to make it into one you should know how. Just as an exercise do the math and figure out what the weights of the car and passengers and a full load of fuel compares with the car's max gross weight. It might surprise you to see that the car is over it's gross with a truck full of stuff, 2 large people and a full tank of gas. As for the brakes being "the worst", maybe there is something wrong with the brakes on your car, the brakes on a stock Delorean, working properly, are perfectly adequate for normal street driving.

[Michael]

You have a firm grasp on the painfully obvious. Nobody here is 8 years old. You should stop addressing them as such with your views that anyone with an ounce of common sense shares.

[David T]

You have a firm grasp on the painfully obvious. Nobody here is 8 years old. You should stop addressing them as such with your views that anyone with an ounce of common sense shares.

Just who appointed you to decide how anyone can post? Maybe this is all obvious to you but not everyone is as knowledgeable about this as you seem to be. When you are a moderator maybe then you can make this kind of a post (but in that case it would be a PM directly to me, not out here on the forum). You are the only one that has a problem with my posts.

[Michael]

Maybe this is all obvious to you but not everyone is as knowledgeable about this as you seem to be.

No dude that IS the problem. Everyone here DOES have the most basic of common sense that you have been denying them for the past decade. You talk down to people like they are idiots.

All I ask is you afford us the same measure of reasoning skills that you would the average 5yr old.

[David T]

No dude that IS the problem. Everyone here DOES have the most basic of common sense that you have been denying them for the past decade. You talk down to people like they are idiots.

All I ask is you afford us the same measure of reasoning skills that you would the average 5yr old.

So now I am not an 8 year old, you have reduced me to a 5 year old. Just who do you think you are making personal attacks against another member of the forum? Again I ask who anointed you the decider of who gets to post and what they say? If you don't like my posts you don't have to read them. The problem seems to be you, you are the only one that makes these comments.

[Michael]

:rolleyes1: :hmm:

[Wayne 962]

Hmm, okay. Lots of personalities here. I also own a fire truck, Daimler Ferret tank, Harley knucklehead, several Porsches, a Pantera, etc., and each time I buy a new car, it's always interesting to see the different personalities on the various forums. Oh, I also have a lowrider and a Corvette - two more distinctive communities. I take it as it is.

I am indeed in the camp that these are cool cars, but they made nearly 9,000 of them so they are not exactly rare. So, I'm perfectly fine with modifying the heck out of them.

Here's what I came up with after about 50+ hours of research on the wheels:

Dekagram 15x7.5 +35 4x100
PN: DK75100358 (Bronze) https://konigwheels.com/products/konig-dekagram?variant=45397700542692
PN: DK75100355 (Black Matte) https://konigwheels.com/products/konig-dekagram?variant=45397700509924

Dekagram 18x8.5 +45 5x114.3
PN: DK88514458 (Bronze) https://konigwheels.com/products/konig-dekagram?variant=45397701263588
PN: DK88514455 (Black Matte) https://konigwheels.com/products/konig-dekagram?variant=45397701230820

I'm going to run a thin 22mm 4x100 to 5x114.3 adapter in the back and run five-lug wheels in the back and four lug wheels in the front. It's the only practical way to get some good 18" wheels in the back. With the 18s in the back and the 15s in the front, it should have a very cool staggered look, paying homage to the original. Bronze finish, goes well with the stock finish, and/or the copper wrap we're planning on doing.

Tires:
Hankook Ventus V2 Concept 2 H457 205 /50 R15 86H SL BSW
Hankook Ventus V2 Concept 2 H457 235 /45 R18 98W XL BSW

It was a limited selection of tires that were available in both of these two sizes. Using these tires should be fairly close to the stock sizes - the front wheel without a tire rubs on the swaybar, but the swaybar is slightly polished there to begin with, indicating that my stock wheel / tire combo rubbed on there at one time. The car has also been lowered slightly, and I would like to keep that. I'm also planning on rolling the fenders so that I can lower the car down as much as possible. We'll also go with the KW shock setup soon too.

I tried to make the 18x9.5 "deep dish" wheels work, but the offsets didn't work too well. The 18" wheel is wide enough that the shock bolt on the inside of the car is not an issue, but the outer wheel offset wouldn't work unless I converted the rear into five-lug hubs (which I don't want to do at this moment in time).

7178071781717827178371784

[Carbuilder]

I'm going to run a thin 22mm 4x100 to 5x114.3 adapter in the back...

With the 18s in the back and the 15s in the front, it should have a very cool staggered look, paying homage to the original


I don't think you are going to find adapters like that. If you are changing bolt patterns you need a thicker adapter, something like 1 1/4".

Paying homage to the original what? The originals have a 1" diameter difference, not 3".

[Josh]

I don't think you are going to find adapters like that. If you are changing bolt patterns you need a thicker adapter, something like 1 1/4".

Paying homage to the original what? The originals have a 1" diameter difference, not 3".

There are thinner one piece adapters that change the stud count, however they rely on the base circles to be the same.

When changing stud count and base circle the adapter is two pieces, at least 3/4" thick each.

Generally speaking the use of these adapters are bad practice and can open yourself to strange failures and imbalances down the road. The saving grace here is that the delorean is not that heavy of a car and low power/performance.

I would implore OP to do a hub conversion. The rear hub from a 2002-2010 Ford Explorer fits on our car with some machine work and is 5x114.3

Also having a 3" difference in wheel diameter front to back will make for a strange visual difference in sidewall height. Kind of a reverse dragster look.

[Josh]

Also I would suggest you looking into 255/40/18 for the rears. 235 is pretty narrow for a low profile tire on a 8.5" wide wheel.

[Carbuilder]

There are thinner one piece adapters that change the stud count, however they rely on the base circles to be the same.



No. You can't have 4 evenly spaced studs and 5 evenly spaced studs at the same radius on a thin adapter.

[Josh]

No. You can't have 4 evenly spaced studs and 5 evenly spaced studs at the same radius on a thin adapter.

you're right I was wrong, but not in the way you are trying to prove me wrong. Do not speak in absolutes - you fail to learn new things and make yourself look foolish.

There is "single ply" adapters for both situations

4x100 to 5x114.3, 20mm

https://www.bonoss.com/product/bonoss-forged-al7075-t6-hubcentric-4-lug-to-5-lug-wheel-adapters-4x100-to-5x114-3-for-vw-golf-polo-mk1-mk2-1974-1992-cabrio-caddy-passat?srsltid=AfmBOoqiXOPXAO8nQNu-RI0c7pZqBq09MFbk0YTD-VnCc6yEfr5KotqD

4x114.3 to 5x114.3, 20mm

https://us.gktech.com/products/5-to-4-stud-wheel-adapters?srsltid=AfmBOor5IpkJq3liRUwK8ZEGsvUYh0ALR xZevPNGPuv3BB4MApJNdvXq


TO conclude I think running either of these are a terrible idea, but these things do exist.

[Carbuilder]

you're right I was wrong, but not in the way you are trying to prove me wrong. Do not speak in absolutes - you fail to learn new things and make yourself look foolish.

There is "single ply" adapters for both situations

4x100 to 5x114.3, 20mm

https://www.bonoss.com/product/bonoss-forged-al7075-t6-hubcentric-4-lug-to-5-lug-wheel-adapters-4x100-to-5x114-3-for-vw-golf-polo-mk1-mk2-1974-1992-cabrio-caddy-passat?srsltid=AfmBOoqiXOPXAO8nQNu-RI0c7pZqBq09MFbk0YTD-VnCc6yEfr5KotqD

4x114.3 to 5x114.3, 20mm



Wow, take it easy. Trying to prove you wrong? I wasn't implying anything personal, unlike yourself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Of all the car forums I've been on this is the worst one for negativity and personal attacks that aren't called for. So many posts get replies to put someone down. And why is it that many of the people with the most posts are the worst examples?

[Timeless]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Of all the car forums I've been on this is the worst one for negativity and personal attacks that aren't called for. So many posts get replies to put someone down. And why is it that many of the people with the most posts are the worst examples?
Disagree. Have you looked on the Corvette or Tesla forums? The bashing is wild.

[Helirich]

you're right I was wrong, but not in the way you are trying to prove me wrong. Do not speak in absolutes - you fail to learn new things and make yourself look foolish.

There is "single ply" adapters for both situations

4x100 to 5x114.3, 20mm

https://www.bonoss.com/product/bonoss-forged-al7075-t6-hubcentric-4-lug-to-5-lug-wheel-adapters-4x100-to-5x114-3-for-vw-golf-polo-mk1-mk2-1974-1992-cabrio-caddy-passat?srsltid=AfmBOoqiXOPXAO8nQNu-RI0c7pZqBq09MFbk0YTD-VnCc6yEfr5KotqD

4x114.3 to 5x114.3, 20mm

https://us.gktech.com/products/5-to-4-stud-wheel-adapters?srsltid=AfmBOor5IpkJq3liRUwK8ZEGsvUYh0ALR xZevPNGPuv3BB4MApJNdvXq


TO conclude I think running either of these are a terrible idea, but these things do exist.

I?ve not seen those. Interesting. While I don?t really see a structural problem useing them, especially on our (stock) application, I do think replacing the hub is the way to go.

There were/are some wheel spacers/adapters that are not made quality and gave all of them a bad name. From a structural point of view, there is nothing wrong with the basic idea of a spacer/adapter. It?s just not the preferred way to go.

[Josh]

Wow, take it easy. Trying to prove you wrong? I wasn't implying anything personal, unlike yourself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Of all the car forums I've been on this is the worst one for negativity and personal attacks that aren't called for. So many posts get replies to put someone down. And why is it that many of the people with the most posts are the worst examples?

You are a guiding light, a ray of sunshine. An example of humility and forgiveness. Show us the way.

[Carbuilder]

I?ve not seen those. Interesting. While I don?t really see a structural problem useing them, especially on our (stock) application, I do think replacing the hub is the way to go.

There were/are some wheel spacers/adapters that are not made quality and gave all of them a bad name. From a structural point of view, there is nothing wrong with the basic idea of a spacer/adapter. It?s just not the preferred way to go.

I have 1" adaptors on the rear of my car. They are to space the wheels out and also to adapt the hubcentric diameter of the Delorean hub to the aftermarket wheel. Since it is for the same bolt pattern on the car and wheel, they are structurally very good.

The ones in the links I wouldn't put on any car. They are obviously a compromise; some cobbled together piece in one of them and bolt holes so close together in the other one that I would have serious issues with the strength. Maybe others would be OK with those designs, I certainly wouldn't. And in case I'm accused of speaking in absolutes or something like that, I'm speaking from decades of experience designing aerospace components, so I do know something about the design of highly stressed components.

You are right that there are some very good ones and unfortunately some very bad ones that tend to give a bad rap to a lot of them.

[Josh]

I have 86 years of experience, in everything that anyone has ever done. Also the things that no one has done. Take my word for it. I know everything. I can learn nothing. I have learned it all. Dont try to talk down to me sonny-boy

[Helirich]

I have 86 years of experience, in everything that anyone has ever done. Also the things that no one has done. Take my word for it. I know everything. I can learn nothing. I have learned it all. Dont try to talk down to me sonny-boy

Had to chuckle reading this. Alas, we have to admit, there?s a little bit of this in all of us.

On another subject, the picture in your signature. I assume it is takin when you are at near max excelleration since the front is lifted somewhat. It also appears the drivers side is slightly higher than the pax. Is this true, or just the angle of the pic. If it?s true, I?m thinking it?s because of the torque. Is it something you notice every time you put your foot in it? Is it very noticeable from inside the car? Does it get light enough that you lose some steering?