Jeep talk***split from DMCH discussion***

[tyb323]

The Jeep is a very interesting vehicle. Most everyone knows the story of the contest the military hosted for the creation of a utilitarian vehicle, Bantam won the contest, but since they didn't have the manufacturing capabilities and it wasn't a complete design, Willys and Ford revised it, and the final model was designed by Willys. From there Willys and Ford ended up manufacturing Jeeps for WWII. And after the war the Jeep entered civilian life and was eventually sold off several times. Here's the brief run-down of it's history.


I find this a rather fascinating parallel to the DeLorean. See what we have here is both a vehicle, as well as a marque, that survive on their own, though neither are owned by their original creators. Yet why is no one complaining that Jeeps are no longer real Jeeps? Why does no one complain that any the owners of Jeep at any time in the company's history have just been cashing-in, or whoring out the brand? The closest anyone EVER got were the softer springs and square headlights of the YJ, but no one questioned the brand.

Everytime a new jeep model has come out since the CJ there has been compaining. YJs had the softer rides and square headlights, TJs had less complaining (except that the interior was a bit too "luxurious"), JKS had massive blowback for 4 doors, power windows, gps, etc., and the 2011+ Fiat JKS are criticized for becoming luxury suvs (leather and chrome inserts, very nice interior, and all the above mentioned JK issues)

Source - my jeep ownership (TJ) and experiences with 2 jeep clubs in my area and other jeep owners

[opethmike]

Everytime a new jeep model has come out since the CJ there has been compaining. YJs had the softer rides and square headlights, TJs had less complaining (except that the interior was a bit too "luxurious"), JKS had massive blowback for 4 doors, power windows, gps, etc., and the 2011+ Fiat JKS are criticized for becoming luxury suvs (leather and chrome inserts, very nice interior, and all the above mentioned JK issues)

Source - my jeep ownership (TJ) and experiences with 2 jeep clubs in my area and other jeep owners

EXACT same thing in the Corvette and Lotus communities, both of which I am pretty deeply involved with.

[DMCVegas]

Everytime a new jeep model has come out since the CJ there has been compaining.


Source - my jeep ownership (TJ) and experiences with 2 jeep clubs in my area and other jeep owners

Has any of that stopped you or anyone else from buying Jeeps? Has it somehow taken away from the experience or fun of owning older, existing models?

[tyb323]

Has any of that stopped you or anyone else from buying Jeeps? Has it somehow taken away from the experience or fun of owning older, existing models?

Nope, probably stops a small minority of people, but for the most part people love to bitch about something and then buy into it.

As for stopping me from buying another jeep, I think that Chrysler has done a bang up job of scaring me away from my car from ignoring this common issue...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GupYHM1pCcY

Mine did this when I bought it used in 08, then I paid 800 bucks for a repair, and it started doing it again this summer...

[Farrar]

Mine did this when I bought it used in 08, then I paid 800 bucks for a repair, and it started doing it again this summer...

Seen this yet?

http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/how-to-fix-your-own-death-wobble/

Farrar

[tyb323]

Yes, I've seen it. But this is a repair chrysler should be paying for. They built a shoddy design, why do I have to pay a ton every couple of years for parts that shouldn't have gone bad in the first place. I've sunk more money in the Jeep than in the D in the past 5 years

[DMCVegas]

Nope, probably stops a small minority of people, but for the most part people love to bitch about something and then buy into it.

So why in the hell is this thing with DMC any different? It's the same brand, just under new ownership.



As for stopping me from buying another jeep, I think that Chrysler has done a bang up job of scaring me away from my car from ignoring this common issue...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GupYHM1pCcY

Mine did this when I bought it used in 08, then I paid 800 bucks for a repair, and it started doing it again this summer...

Does it have a lift kit? Because the only time I ever hear about "Death Wobble" is with modified Jeeps.

[Ikeaboy1]

My bone stock JK has been doing well for its first 20,000 miles or so, but I do worry about it in the long-term. I have no plans on modifying it, but in the back of my mind I know when that warranty is up I'll probably be cruising dealership lots for something else.

[Stainless]

I might as well chime in here. I've been a Jeep owner for six years now. I bought a '99 XJ (Cherokee) bone stock with 90K miles on it. Although mine is a '99, the front suspension has remained very similar to what the current JK Wrangler has now: 4 links, trac bar, coil springs, live front axle. I never experienced any issues with mine until I started modifying it with a lift and bigger tires.

In my experience, the main causes of "death wobble" are not due to shoddy components, but shoddy maintenance or improper installation of components. Imbalanced tires, poor alignment, loose trac bar, and worn ball joints have all contributed to "death wobble" at one time or another on mine. If those items are taken care of, almost all "death wobble" issues will be eliminated.

If "death wobble" occurs on unmodified/stock Jeeps, that's another issue and sounds like a quality issue stemming from Jeep. As we know, Jeep stands for Just Empty Every Pocket, so if you're thinking of owning one, be prepared to get to know it inside and out. In the 6 years I've owned it, I've replaced nearly every component under the hood except for the motor, but I still love it to death. It's very similar to the love/hate relationship many DeLorean owners have with our cars.

My advice: if you don't go offroading, don't get a Jeep. As far as griping about new models come out, I have been plenty guilty of that. The new Grand Cherokee is a far cry from what it was 10 years ago. It went from a live axle front and rear, off-road-capable SUV to an independent suspension front and rear mall crawler. I'm sure Jeep is just making what they believe will sell best, so I can't fault them for that. As long as Jeep offers at least one line of vehicles that is built with a solid front and rear axle, I won't spend too much time griping. They are one of the only current manufactures that still offers that much.

I'm also glad to hear that I'm not the only DeLorean/Jeep owner here. It's kind of a strange combination of cars, but the D is for fun on-road driving and the XJ is for fun off-road driving. It's the best of both worlds!

[DMCVegas]

I'm also glad to hear that I'm not the only DeLorean/Jeep owner here. It's kind of a strange combination of cars, but the D is for fun on-road driving and the XJ is for fun off-road driving. It's the best of both worlds!

I like my vehicles purpose-built, and I've always had the same attitude. When I'm in the DeLorean if I see pavement I want to hit it and go as fast as I can. In the Jeep if I saw a trail I had that same urge to just drive it and see where it goes. I've not owned a Jeep in a few years and have been jonesing for another. I've got a 4x4 F-150, and it's fun, but just not the same.

I was always told that most DeLorean owners tend to move on to Vipers or Corvettes. I just loved the D too much to "move on" and instead just developed this fondness for Trucks, especially 4x4's and Jeeps. I guess since it's not a car or even in the same league when it comes to it's purpose it's not "cheating" on the DeLorean. ;)

[Mike C.]

Holy crap, that death wobble looks awesome!!!

[tyb323]

My car is stock, unmodified. Had the wobble when I bought it at 26k miles (one time it forced me off the road and shook my phone off the centre tray it was so severe. How at 67k it's starting up again. I do agree with the Just Empty Every Pocket thing, because that's pretty much what it's been for 4 years now

[Stainless]

My car is stock, unmodified. Had the wobble when I bought it at 26k miles (one time it forced me off the road and shook my phone off the centre tray it was so severe. How at 67k it's starting up again. I do agree with the Just Empty Every Pocket thing, because that's pretty much what it's been for 4 years now

If you don't mind me asking, what did they repair for $800 to eliminate the problem the first time? Jeeps are money pits. More so when you modify it. A Jeep can eat up money faster than a DeLorean as is the case with mine.

[tyb323]

Well one shop charged me 500 and replaced the trackbar, 2 weeks later it was shaking again. The local shop did 800 bucks for trackbar (again) and several other components. They also replaced the tires, and that solved it until recently.

[tyb323]

Update on my Heep.

A small piece of cast metal busted in the ignition switch, so now the entire steering column has to be replaced

~600 bucks.

[Stainless]

Update on my Heep.

A small piece of cast metal busted in the ignition switch, so now the entire steering column has to be replaced

~600 bucks.

Oh man. That blows! I've never heard of that happening before. When it rains, it pours, I guess.

[1Mcfly4u]

Add another name to the list for Jeep + Delorean owner. Ive got an 04 wrangler, it's had the death wobble for at least a year now. It used to be my wifes car when we started dating but then I bought her a Pathfinder, she wouldnt let me trade the Jeep in on it, now I wish she had. Ive replaced the track bar, steering stabilizer and the ball joint that hooks back up to the power steering pump.
It happens at 55 and let me tell you IT SUCKS!!! And I'm not talking a Sean sucks here I'm talking when it starts shaking put a piece of coal in my ass and I'll give you back a diamond after it's quit kind of shaking. I'd like to think that eventually I will replace the correct piece of the steering that makes it do this. Hopefully this weekend I can get the Benz fixed and just drive that again....but I digress....

[SamHill]

A ride in a new Jeep Liberty last year sealed my bad opinion of what Chrysler has done to the brand. Especially compared to what upstarts like Kia put out there for less money.

[Ikeaboy1]

It's fun and easy to knock cheap cars like the Geo's, Kia, Daewoo's, etc. But in all honesty the car that I was most shocked at when I had the misfortune to drive it was the Dodge Nitro. Wow. I drive it's distant relative, but my god what a horrendously cramped bucket of a car. Probably the worst impression of a late model car I've ever had.

[sdg3205]

It's fun and easy to knock cheap cars like the Geo's, Kia, Daewoo's, etc. But in all honesty the car that I was most shocked at when I had the misfortune to drive it was the Dodge Nitro. Wow. I drive it's distant relative, but my god what a horrendously cramped bucket of a car. Probably the worst impression of a late model car I've ever had.

When I dropped off the TJ for service once they gave me a Dodge Calibre for the day. Not exactly an exciting or unique car. It may have had a CVT. Anyway there was no way to tell it was a loaner - it was in good shape, basically brand new. When I was putting some gas in an attendant said to me "your rental is kind of a let down eh?" I asked how he knew it wasn't mine and all he said was, "They never are!" I found that funny.

On an unrelated note, have any TJ owners here has their swing gate hinges seize up almost completely? If so I've got the fix of the millennium for you to make it work like new again.

[DMCVegas]

A ride in a new Jeep Liberty last year sealed my bad opinion of what Chrysler has done to the brand. Especially compared to what upstarts like Kia put out there for less money.

Owned a Jeep Liberty once, and I always tell people "If you get the chance to own one, don't. Just don't." It was alright as a vehicle I suppose, but Chrysler's lack of build quality shone brightly through. First thing was that it left the factory without ever getting a Front End Alignment. So our tires got worn out, and by the time I noticed it I we were completely out of the mini 12K warranty there. We were out $90 for an alignment, and almost $300 for new tires.

Next was the oil change from the dealer. The 3.7L engine has some sort of weird insert that goes into the oil filler neck to I assume help route gasses for the engine to breath. They left it out, sitting on the engine. No one, not even the Service Managers at two separate dealerships in two separate states could explain to me what this piece's function was for, but said they left parts like that out all the time with no problems.

And finally were the windows. We went through 9, count them nine window regulators on that Liberty in less than a year. Every single door's window went bad. Turns out that the dropping glass has a hole in it which the plastic clamp on the regulator track clamps to. This clamp is very poorly designed because the portion that wraps around the spiral cable is only slightly thicker than paper in order to fit in between the Cable and the Steel Tube/Track. When you attach it you're supposed to spread the clamp open with a plastic spoon/wedge and gently guide the glass in. The last time the Liberty went in for service, I watched the Service Tech just slam the glass down with his open hands to force it to click into place. What happens when you do that is the clamp assembly experiences lateral stress and will crack. From there the weight of the glass alone will further fracture the glass until it breaks clean off. After this it's amazing how many other Jeep Libertys I notices that had tape holding their glass up. Chrysler doesn't sell just this plastic clip by itself. No, they force you to buy an entirely new regulator assembly, and they don't come cheap. I ended up just drilling out the rivets, and used a couple of spread cotter pins wrapped around the cable and secured them to the plastic clip, and then greased up the cable track with gobs of White Lithium Grease to stop the cotter pins from scraping and grinding. It got the windows to work just enough before we got rid of that nightmare

All this stuff happened while still in factory warranty, and the biggest lesson to learn was the Chrysler doesn't even care enough to ensure that their Service Technicians, let alone factory workers were trained to know what specific parts of the vehicles they worked on are intended to do, let alone tell them how to install components properly. When that moron slammed the glass down, both times, I heard it crack, and he didn't care.

Other than vintage Chrysler, a bargain car I'm flipping, and maybe a TJ or a TK as a project, no way will another Pentastar product ever been in my garage.

[tyb323]

A small thing but I noticed this on the inspection. They blew through it without hardly paying attention. Like I said, small detail, but my front wiper blades were put on a month ago, they checked the box (needs attention in near future), but on the back window (hardtop), the 6 year old factory wiper is still there with hardly any rubber on it. (Good working condition)

[dvonk]

On an unrelated note, have any TJ owners here has their swing gate hinges seize up almost completely? If so I've got the fix of the millennium for you to make it work like new again.

my TJ swing gate hinges are working fine... but for posterity, what is the fix?

[sdg3205]

my TJ swing gate hinges are working fine... but for posterity, what is the fix?

It's probably due to being a northern vehicle (road salt and all).

Anyway, the hinges basically rust internally. Visually, you can't see any rust, but when you open the gate, you need to put your whole body into it. It makes a horrible scream and I've heard from others on the Jeep forum that eventually the hinges will just snap.

The fix is to drill two small holes into the hinges and basically start with PB Blaster and work the gate back and forth. The amount of black crud that pours out over the next hour is unbelievable, but at the end of the hour and after lots of PB Blaster the gate swings as good as new.

You then can put on grease nipples or just squeeze in some thick grease to help lube and fill the holes you drilled.

[dvonk]

nice, ill keep that tip in mind if they start to seize up... they tend to use alot of salt here in the winter too... although our winters probably arent as long as yours.

[opethmike]

You then can put on grease nipples.

Giggity

[sdg3205]

Giggity

sorry, that should have read "greasy nipples."

Double giggidy.

[1Mcfly4u]

My tail gate has started becoming hard to open, I'll try this trick out. Thanks for the info!