Will Bill get banned from the DML?

[stevedmc]

Bill seems to be having the time of his life now that the DML isn't moderated like it was before. What do you think will happen now that he is posting on the DML?

[Ron]

:lockdance:

[Dangermouse]

I have noticed that dml posts have spiked considerably in the past couple of weeks

A "win-win" according to one of the posters over there ;)

[Michael]

I don't read the DML. I don't care what he does. It's a non issue. Why is it that everyone who slaps a carb on their car automatically gets it in their head that they are somehow a "thorn in the purists side"? It almost like they want to be the red headed stepchild, the scourge of the Delorean community and take some kind of pleasure in it but there is just one problem...The purists don't care, I don't care, and according to the poll, nobody else cares either.

[Dracula]

I find Bill's technical knowledge very useful; his opinionated nature, however, seems to be what causes the most grief. I'm actually going to draw an interesting parallel here: Bill is a lot like JZD. Both are fairly fly-by-night adapters of systems, both thrive off of attention that they bring in with their projects, both are stubborn and built up a reputation of attacking a "system" that really doesn't care about them, and both have a difficult time accepting that suggestions posed by others may not only get the job done, but get it done better.

[sean]

I have noticed that dml posts have spiked considerably in the past couple of weeks)

and if you add up the post counts bill makes up about 35+% of the posts. Perhaps it should be called "Robertson Mailing List"




A "win-win" according to one of the posters over there ;)
Sounds like a pretty awesome poster! I'd buy that guy a beer.

[stevedmc]

I find it amusing how the people who claim they don't care, care enough to vote about not caring.




http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/000/048/800px-Sup_dawg.jpg?1230861569

[Dracula]

I find it amusing how the people who claim they don't care, care enough to vote about not caring.

There's a very simple explanation for that: I was bored.

[Michael]

I find it amusing how the people who claim they don't care, care enough to vote about not caring.

If you didn't want my response, in the future don't ask for it. It's not that hard to click on a button. I find it equally amusing how those that want to do things their own way, go out of their way to know what we think about it.

[sean]

I find it amusing how the people who claim they don't care, care enough to vote about not caring.

Then why put it as an option? As someone who has to administer and study surveys I figured if you didn't want to know who didn't care you wouldn't have asked because apparently folks that don't post or comment don't matter, right? So I suppose those that voted wanted to matter? I figured as creditable as you are you wanted as much data to contemplate during your next noodle bath. So I suppose I just thought my not caring vote would help in your study of determining the potential fate of Martyr Robertson. You should start this same poll on the RML, see how they vote too, then you can merge the results for a real comprehensive study of the situation. Maybe write a paper about it and get it published in the next issue of DeLoreans magazine and also present your findings at DCS12, I won't attend of course because I really don't care.

[Dangermouse]

I find it amusing how the people who claim they don't care, care enough to vote about not caring.

]

I wished to underline how little I cared :)

Which is why I just took time to write "I wished to underline how little I cared :)"

[sean]

I wished to underline how little I cared :)

Which is why I just took time to write "I wished to underline how little I cared :)"

Well I don't care but I do think there should be "he'll be made a Mod there" because come on, who wouldnt want that in charge, am I right?

[Dracula]

Well I don't care but I do think there should be "he'll be made a Mod there" because come on, who wouldnt want that in charge, am I right?

I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to see that, but then there's the problem of who'd ban him?

[sean]

I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to see that, but then there's the problem of who'd ban him?

I see him getting so pissed at himself that he ultimately has enough and bans himself.


Come on, you seriously didn't see that coming? :D

[Dracula]

I see him getting so pissed at himself that he ultimately has enough and bans himself.


Come on, you seriously didn't see that coming? :D

But then he'd create another account so that he can post when he's banned about being banned. I wonder if there's a motivational poster out there that has that sentiment.

[Farrar]

Why is it that everyone who slaps a carb on their car automatically gets it in their head that they are somehow a "thorn in the purists side"?

I don't, and I'm not.

Only two carb users proselytize; the rest of us don't.

Sweeping generalizations are never a good thing.

Farrar

[Dracula]

But then he'd create another account so that he can post when he's banned about being banned. I wonder if there's a motivational poster out there that has that sentiment.

Found what I was referring to:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/newsfeed/000/040/236/yodawg_car.jpg?1318992465

[AdmiralSenn]

I don't care what happens to his account there, as the DML is largely empty nowadays anyway. Now that I see so many of his messages in my group mailing list summary I am tempted to just leave completely.

Not that I don't like Bill - he's a great guy and he's helped me more than a few times, and I think he's a net asset to the community. But man is it annoying to have to skim through dozens of messages because all he does is rant. The remaining "normal" posts are borderline not worth the hassle now. Same story here, honestly - there are threads I was reading that I was interested in that got violently sidetracked by the arguments that follow him wherever he goes.

I wish he could just hold his opinions reasonably quietly without resorting to trolling other people. He's already made the other mailing list almost as absurd as the various threads here were getting. I think that as DMC owners/enthusiasts we get enough crap from other people without resorting to harassing each other.

[sean]

I don't, and I'm not.

Only two carb users proselytize; the rest of us don't.

Sweeping generalizations are never a good thing.

Farrar

Like! Looking forward to our beer at DCs.

[ArnieBrandon]

Bill should be left totally alone. As long as he persists in "upgrading" suspension and as he continues to convince people to put those dumb little things on top of the intake manifold, he continues to bastardize DeLoreans which makes them totally unsaleable. Very soon there will be fewer STOCK DeLoreans for people to purchase

[sean]

Bill should be left totally alone. As long as he persists in "upgrading" suspension and as he continues to convince people to put those dumb little things on top of the intake manifold, he continues to bastardize DeLoreans which makes them totally unsaleable. Very soon there will be fewer STOCK DeLoreans for people to purchase

:confused0:

Ok.....

[Farrar]

:confused0:

Ok.....

I think he meant Option 3 above. :)

For what it's worth, I like Bill as a person and I really appreciate how he uses his (evidently limitless) free time to research our cars' history. What I don't like is how he takes an innocuous response like "X wasn't designed to do Y, Bill; you've changed the properties of Z system by redesigning it," and turns it into "The entire world has been saying my car was doomed since I first laid hands upon it."

On the one hand, I have known people like that my entire life. I think maybe it has something to do with living in the south -- people exaggerate, but they don't mean it literally. For example, I was talking with a listener recently who said "Mel Tormé was the greatest singer of all time." Well, between the telephone receiver and my thought processes that man's statement turned into "I really like Mel Tormé as a singer," because I'm used to grandiose statements from highly opinionated people. Pretty much everything Bill says is said with a wink and a smile; although he might sound argumentative he's simply enjoying the response he gets from people who don't understand the way he talks -- not what he is saying, but the way he talks -- and I admit the way he talks is hard to deal with sometimes.

I admit that I try to be a peacemaker, and that I am a "live and let live" type of person... and there are a lot of people who are not nearly so "hands-off" as I am in the "DeLorean Community." I am also pretty shy in real life and I guess that is where my "let's all get along before someone gets beat up" attitude comes from. But in my experience even trying to "moderate" Bill's comments by trying to explain them to someone who's been riled up is pretty much pointless; he in his funny way will somehow find a way to get a hilarious response out of someone who doesn't get that he's not actually being mean-spirited about any of his extremely strong opinions. And yes, that's all they are -- opinions. If you add "I think" to his statements they make a lot more sense. So just do that in your head.

I look forward to meeting everyone at DCS '12 and demonstrating to them that just because I have a cheap fuel delivery system doesn't mean I can't be friendly with just about everyone I meet, nor does it mean that I will try to convince someone that their deeply-held beliefs are wrong. I'm just another guy with a DeLorean. And I look forward to hanging out with Bill again, even if it means that I occasionally shake my head. Come on, who among us has never had a friend who occasionally made us shake our heads? :)

Steve on the other hand makes it obvious that he's just having fun when he is poking fun at someone online -- maybe he can teach Bill how to do that. :)

Farrar

[tyb323]

As long as he persists in "upgrading" suspension...


If you think the DeLorean suspension is flawless, you're delusional. I have personally driven his upgrades and they are spectacular. It feels like the car it should have been

[stevedmc]

Steve on the other hand makes it obvious that he's just having fun when he is poking fun at someone online -- maybe he can teach Bill how to do that. :)

I'm not joking when I talk down to people who have inferior fuel delivery systems. Stubborn minded people deserve to be talked down too. I also show no respect for Nazis who leave their trailing arm bolt covers installed.

[SamHill]

I got on my back with a flashlight and had a look and I'd love to have it myself.

I didn't drive it because of my own superstitions. Driving someone else's beloved car is like walking under a ladder.

I remember when a tough academy drill instructor took delivery of a new Harley cruiser. He offered me the chance to take it out on a ride and I demurred. I still think that was the wise choice!


who leave their trailing arm bolt covers installed.

That's what Himmler did. FACTS!/

[Michael]

I also show no respect for Nazis who leave their trailing arm bolt covers installed.

Anyone who drives a Metro has no respect to give:hihi:

[stevedmc]

Anyone who drives a Metro has no respect to give:hihi:

At least I haven't stooped low enough to buy a silly little Prius.

[Dracula]

I also show no respect for Nazis who leave their trailing arm bolt covers installed.

Those of us who like their trailing arm bolt covers get a free box of cereal:

6396

[Farrar]

Everyone knows the Nazis went to the moon in 1945.

Now let's get back to our other pointless discussion. :D

[DCUK Martin]

I find Bill's technical knowledge very useful;

I find Bill's technical knowledge extremely limited, but he doesn't know it.

The phrase "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" really applies to Bill.



What I don't like is how he takes an innocuous response like "X wasn't designed to do Y, Bill; you've changed the properties of Z system by redesigning it," and turns it into "The entire world has been saying my car was doomed since I first laid hands upon it."

:thumbup:


If you think the DeLorean suspension is flawless, you're delusional. I have personally driven his upgrades and they are spectacular. It feels like the car it should have been

Don't you start....

Edit: I'm not actually arguing with the point that the DeLorean's suspension can't be improved.

[stevedmc]

Martin likes to complain about Bill to us because we don't put up as strong a fight as Bill does.

[sean]

Martin likes to complain about Bill to us because we don't put up as strong a fight as Bill does.

I enjoy Martin & Farrar's posts. Martin for the most part posts what many are thinking.

[Soundkillr]

I enjoy Martin & Farrar's posts. Martin for the most part posts what many are thinking.

Agreed. He certainly has me pegged on that issue.

[tyb323]

Edit: I'm not actually arguing with the point that the DeLorean's suspension can't be improved.

Good, because I put your springs on my car and it made a great improvement already!

[sean]

I enjoy Martin & Farrar's posts. Martin for the most part posts what many are thinking.

I also wanted to add that Farrar's post add a level of "who gives a rats ass let's just enjoy our cars" but I was being brow beaten by my family who are were waiting to leave on a trip :D

[Farrar]

Farrar's post add a level of "who gives a rats ass let's just enjoy our cars"

Pretty much my philosophy in a nutshell. :)

Farrar

[jmettee]

Just for the record, anyone who has not met Bill in person may greatly be deceived by his e-posts on DMCTalk & the DML. While he does like to talk about carbs & his mods to his car almost as much as he types about them, he is a great person. He will bend over backward to help anyone. When I attended the first event I knew he was also going to attend, I knew I had to meet him to see how he was in person. His posts were annoying at times when he rants/raves about things. BUT, he's quite different in person.

Don't judge Bill's character on his "typings" along. In person, he's a fun & friendly guy to talk to & to also banter with.

[sztybel]

Everything sounds better with a southern accent and I do agree Bill is a nice guy.

[Ron]

Bill SUCKS!

[Soundkillr]

Bill SUCKS!

Bullocks. Nonsense. Fail. Try again. Thank you very much.

[sean]

In person, he's a fun & friendly guy to talk to & to also banter with.

Said this more than a few times but still is no excuse for some of his online implosions.

[louielouie2000]

If the DML gets rid of Bill, it's their loss. They have hardly ever been kind to differing viewpoints. Does anybody even read and post on the DML anymore? :headscratch: That format of communication is at least a decade out of date. I went cold turkey on the DML when DMCTalk came online. I'm surprised the DML even exists anymore. The overly heavy moderation of content & antiquated dissemination of communications just isn't worthwhile. In the early days DMCTalk just couldn't compare to the technical know-how the DML possessed through it's incredibly well seasoned owners. But these days DMCTalk has many of the old DML mainstays, and some fresh voices who are willing to throw the old DeLorean dogma out the window. All of the good, and almost none of the bad. :thumbup:

[stevedmc]

Bill SUCKS!

Ron SUCKS!

Btw, thanks for helping rebuild my drive axles.

[Ron]

Ron SUCKS!

Btw, thanks for helping rebuild my drive axles.
No problem!!!

Btw, You SUCK! (more)

[Iznodmad]

Bullocks. Nonsense. Fail. Try again. Thank you very much.

You forgot one......live with it/deal with it.

[Soundkillr]

You forgot one......live with it/deal with it.

Ah man, i knew i was forgetting one. Oh well back to my book of "Billspeak and nonsense."

[sean]

Ah man, i knew i was forgetting one. Oh well back to my book of "Billspeak and nonsense."

You Ass Whole!

[Soundkillr]

You Ass Whole!

That indeed looks like a great chapter in Billspeak. Unfortunatly i am not to that one yet. Im only at Chapter 3: "My car is so well grounded, it will never leave earth."

[Dangermouse]

You forgot one......live with it/deal with it.

Balderdash!

[AirmanPika]

All these years and I still don't get why everyone fusses so much over Bill. So what if he has a crazy opinion? If you ask me he's been one of the most helpful people I've dealt with.

[Farrar]

All these years and I still don't get why everyone fusses so much over Bill. So what if he has a crazy opinion? If you ask me he's been one of the most helpful people I've dealt with.

Think of it like how people react to what a politician says -- it's not what he says so much as how he says it which sets people off. People can say "I believe the DeLorean suspension is adequate for normal driving conditions," and Bill will re-tell it as "Everybody goes 'ooh ooh ooh, Bill, the DeLorean suspension was wonderful from the factory, you're messing up a perfect design.' Bullshit -- Lotus only did what they had to when someone was looking over their shoulders." A lot of folks talk in sort of pseudo-manicheistic terms -- "with us or against us," "good or evil," and whatnot -- no grey area, no nuance, no way of holding more than one opinion. I think Bill talks this way for comic effect, but unfortunately it doesn't "read" right; it's better experienced in person. :)

I honestly don't know what's going on with him, since he doesn't even answer my questions anymore, but I will let him be.

Farrar

[sean]

I honestly don't know what's going on with him, since he doesn't even answer my questions anymore, but I will let him be.

Farrar

Well you are not the only carb owner he is ignoring. I expected to be ignored, even when helping him with his account, but remained surprised he won't return carb owner queries.

[DMCVegas]

Pretty much everything Bill says is said with a wink and a smile; although he might sound argumentative he's simply enjoying the response he gets from people who don't understand the way he talks -- not what he is saying, but the way he talks -- and I admit the way he talks is hard to deal with sometimes.

Yeah, but the problem is that with those words you've proven my point for me. When I read statements like that, the thing that comes to mind is this guy:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Zf8PH1YIXjE/Sr_fQc6KHwI/AAAAAAAAATM/7FvmN306tWo/s400/andy+kaufman.jpg

This Andy Kaufman-esque routine of trolling an audience in order to turn the tables and make them the source of entertainment didn't even work for Andy Kaufman. You can't deadpan a ridiculous joke forever, because eventually people will think you actually believe the ridiculous things that you're making fun of. And depending upon how far you take it, people may start to believe that you actually are not right in the head. My own opinion of Bill is in fact this. I have no doubt that Bill in person is a pleasant fellow to deal with. But I seriously doubt that is the "Real Bill". I think it's a facade because when you're face to face he is much more easily held accountable for his words and actions. I think that the rude persona we see here typing is the Real Bill. People can argue otherwise, but a man's actions are what he is accountable for. No offense to Farrar or Louie, but while I do believe that you both are genuinely nice people based upon your own words and merits, nothing you say is actually defending Bill as you intend. It honestly comes across as a plea from a deft, indifferent parent of someone who was caught on tape committing heinous, unspeakable crimes, and you're just trying to say he's a good boy that despite what he's done. It doesn't matter. Bill has made his bed and has to lie in it. He's built a negative online reputation for himself. You guy's can't change that any more than it's your responsibility to.

If anybody who considers themselves Bill's friend really wanted to help the man, you wouldn't justify him to everyone else, you'd try to help him understand what he's doing wrong. Maybe he needs help more than you realize.


I honestly don't know what's going on with him, since he doesn't even answer my questions anymore, but I will let him be.

Farrar

In contrast to Bill, and others, I try to be the same person online, that I am offline. Hell, I even try to dictate as much as possible in my posts rather than just compile, because I just want to be myself and live by the code of what you see being what you get. Now, having said that, allow me to prove it.

I'd like to take this time to say, I told you so. I asked Bill about this before in front of everyone why he wasn't compiling instructions for people to complete this conversion, because it looked like he was setting himself up to be a forced Point of Contact for this information. His response was that setting up carburetors was simplistic, that anyone could do it on their own, and that *I* by asking such questions was questioning people's individual intelligence and thus insulting it.

Well, what is everyone going to do now? Does Bill simply need some time off? Or have you all now become his latest form of entertainment as he's supposedly done to everyone else?

[SamHill]

It honestly comes across as a plea from a deft, indifferent parent of someone who was caught on tape committing heinous, unspeakable crimes, and you're just trying to say he's a good boy that despite what he's done.

LOL. I'll let that wild hyperbole sit out there and breathe for a bit.

"Deloreans According to Bill" would be a great volume, but then, one could have made some assemblage from the posts on the .com site. We assumed it was there forever and never really found out why it got zapped into the ether.

Well, why not write a volume yourself? Or "Deloreans according to Martin"? After all, Bill doesn't have "half" the technological ability he thinks he does. Seriously. Publishing for kindle costs little/nothing. I expect a dedication to "delorean hackers" on the inside cover.

[Farrar]

I try to be the same person online, that I am offline.

Ouch.

Farrar

[Ron]

All these years and I still don't get why everyone fusses so much over Bill. So what if he has a crazy opinion? If you ask me he's been one of the most helpful people I've dealt with.


Think of it like how people react to what a politician says -- it's not what he says so much as how he says it which sets people off.
...
I think Bill talks this way for comic effect, but unfortunately it doesn't "read" right;
I see it more like Bill is a "Mad Luddite Scientist". I believe he can fix most anything he wants, but if he can see what, in his mind, is a reasonable solution to a problem requiring less effort than serious delving into manuals, a newfangled wheel will be rolling around. This is fine and good, after all it is HIS silly little car. And this can be great for someone desperate to get their D on the road and enjoy it. But God help them, if they are not mechanically (or electrically) inclined, and the "ignorant fool" who speaks up with "nonsense" about the often simple solution Bill did not understand because he did not, and does not, want to!
Questions, no matter how they are asked, from either, are often ignored...after all, why waste his time discussing the crappy stock design when it, along with the relatively simple problem, is going to be ripped out anyway. Not being ones to sit by apathetically and watch another, asking for help, unknowingly spend their money in the wrong direction, a few of us (gluttons for punishment) will confront Bill. At first, I tried to ask -- I make lots of mistakes and like to learn too! But I have learned that this is a leap into a bottomless pit, a place where questions of contradictions to scientific laws are blasphemy, punishment (a waste of an excellent command of English) given in the form of eternal tangents- smoke blown before the eyes and up the arse of minions, overwhelming the offender, and alas, wailing and gnashing of (Martin's ;-) teeth.

Sugar coat it as much as you want, ignoring someone asking for help or understanding and responding with such as, "I am the Evil Overlord of Alternate Delorean Fuel [or Ignition] Delivery", no matter how comical, SUCKS!

This IMO is why there has been all the "fuss" -- It is an attempt by the members of the forum at moderating themselves! But it falls on deaf ears plugged with ego and minions' cheers of, "Go, Bill, Go!", forcing the mods to step in to get his attention. The result- He continued to ride his newfangled wheel(s) through unrelated threads, proclaiming, "If you don't like it, you can kiss my mankini wearing ass!" When all this earned him a tightening of the reigns, again the minions cheered, "Go, Bill, Go!"...and he did, taking all of his toys...
Now that's comical.

[stevedmc]

Sugar coat it as much as you want, ignoring someone asking for help or understanding and responding with such as, "I am the Evil Overlord of Alternate Delorean Fuel [or Ignition] Delivery", no matter how comical, SUCKS!

It beats someone coming to you as a wolf in sheep's clothing; aka K-Jet.

[sean]

It beats someone coming to you as a wolf in sheep's clothing; aka K-Jet.

Im glad you didnt deny the rest of his quip, that's probably why bill doesnt want to be your friend :D


Nice one Ron!

[thirdmanj]

It beats someone coming to you as a wolf in sheep's clothing; aka K-Jet.

And heeeeeere weeee GO!

[Ron]

It beats someone coming to you as a wolf in sheep's clothing; aka K-Jet.
And heeeeeere weeee GO!
As it does compared to a sharp stick in the eye. ???
... K-Jet doesn't seek you out to consume you (You must be under the Evil Overlord's spell...resist the lies...resist). The choosing was and is yours.

Seriously, if I put that idea in a realistic perspective, I have to disagree and leave it at that, because I see no difference whatsoever, save the insult(s) added to injury!

[thirdmanj]

As it does compared to a sharp stick in the eye. ???
... K-Jet doesn't seek you out to consume you (You must be under the Evil Overlord's spell...resist the lies...resist). The choosing was and is yours.

Seriously, if I put that idea in a realistic perspective, I have to disagree and leave it at that, because I see no difference whatsoever, save the insult(s) added to injury!

I think he's just bitter because he couldn't get his K-Jet working and had to resort to carbs.

Mind you I'm not one to sit here and bash carbs and say "K-jets better naa-na-ni-naa-naa". But sometimes thats how it comes across.... Just plain bitterness.

The first time I ever saw multiple DeLoreans together was just a couple months ago in VA beach, three of them, and two were carbureted. All I can say is GREAT! At least they're not sitting around going to shit.

[Ron]

I'm with you...except I was serious about unwilling v/s unable.
"Bitter" foots the bill for sure. (NPI)

[Farrar]

he couldn't get his K-Jet working and had to resort to carbs.

If you're referring to Bill, that's not quite correct: he bought an engine which was designed to run on propane; that's why it has different motor mounts and no injector ports.

If you're referring to someone else, then you may be right. But not me; I had other areas of the car demanding cash and I needed to keep the thing drivable while I worked on those other areas, so I picked the cheapest way to keep the engine running. I won't stay carb forever -- I plan on going 3.0L EFI some day.

I will agree that Bill seems bitter; I just don't know why, and it's none of my business.

Farrar

[thirdmanj]

If you're referring to Bill, that's not quite correct: he bought an engine which was designed to run on propane; that's why it has different motor mounts and no injector ports.

If you're referring to someone else, then you may be right. But not me; I had other areas of the car demanding cash and I needed to keep the thing drivable while I worked on those other areas, so I picked the cheapest way to keep the engine running. I won't stay carb forever -- I plan on going 3.0L EFI some day.

I will agree that Bill seems bitter; I just don't know why, and it's none of my business.

Farrar

I see what you're saying. I remember Bill telling me about the whole propane engine thing, and I remember being impressed at the level of knowledge that much jury-rigging must entail. For someone like me, that would be more trouble than it's worth.

I look forward to seeing one of those 3.0L EFIs one of these days. The idea of going forward and updating the DMC-12 is very attractive. That was the reason I started this http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1675-Efi which turned into a shit fest between carbs and EFI as I recall. But whatever. I just love my D :)

[sean]

I look forward to seeing one of those 3.0L EFIs one of these days. The idea of going forward and updating the DMC-12 is very attractive. That was the reason I started this http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1675-Efi which turned into a shit fest between carbs and EFI as I recall. But whatever. I just love my D :)

Which is why we now have this (http://dmctalk.org/forumdisplay.php?53-EFI). Owen (http://dmctalk.org/member.php?455-Spittybug) felt like you and wanted a "Shitfree" EFI area and pushed for it. He put in the time to help draft the area out so if you like it you need to thank him for it.

[thirdmanj]

Which is why we now have this (http://dmctalk.org/forumdisplay.php?53-EFI). Owen (http://dmctalk.org/member.php?455-Spittybug) felt like you and wanted a "Shitfree" EFI area and pushed for it. He put in the time to help draft the area out so if you like it you need to thank him for it.

You too sean. :)

[Farrar]

I look forward to seeing one of those 3.0L EFIs one of these days.

Me, too! I hope to see at least one in Orlando and take lots of pictures and notes. :)

Farrar

[stevedmc]

Me, too! I hope to see at least one in Orlando and take lots of pictures and notes. :)

Farrar

And they will get to see at least 3 carbed cars.

[DCUK Martin]

I see it more like Bill is a "Mad Luddite Scientist". I believe he can fix most anything he wants, but if he can see what, in his mind, is a reasonable solution to a problem requiring less effort than serious delving into manuals, a newfangled wheel will be rolling around. This is fine and good, after all it is HIS silly little car. And this can be great for someone desperate to get their D on the road and enjoy it. But God help them, if they are not mechanically (or electrically) inclined, and the "ignorant fool" who speaks up with "nonsense" about the often simple solution Bill did not understand because he did not, and does not, want to!
Questions, no matter how they are asked, from either, are often ignored...after all, why waste his time discussing the crappy stock design when it, along with the relatively simple problem, is going to be ripped out anyway. Not being ones to sit by apathetically and watch another, asking for help, unknowingly spend their money in the wrong direction, a few of us (gluttons for punishment) will confront Bill. At first, I tried to ask -- I make lots of mistakes and like to learn too! But I have learned that this is a leap into a bottomless pit, a place where questions of contradictions to scientific laws are blasphemy, punishment (a waste of an excellent command of English) given in the form of eternal tangents- smoke blown before the eyes and up the arse of minions, overwhelming the offender, and alas, wailing and gnashing of (Martin's ;-) teeth.

Sugar coat it as much as you want, ignoring someone asking for help or understanding and responding with such as, "I am the Evil Overlord of Alternate Delorean Fuel [or Ignition] Delivery", no matter how comical, SUCKS!

This IMO is why there has been all the "fuss" -- It is an attempt by the members of the forum at moderating themselves! But it falls on deaf ears plugged with ego and minions' cheers of, "Go, Bill, Go!", forcing the mods to step in to get his attention. The result- He continued to ride his newfangled wheel(s) through unrelated threads, proclaiming, "If you don't like it, you can kiss my mankini wearing ass!" When all this earned him a tightening of the reigns, again the minions cheered, "Go, Bill, Go!"...and he did, taking all of his toys...
Now that's comical.

I couldn't agree more with this. I thought "now here's a post I can refer to in the future in my arguments".

Than it occurred to me that Bill never seems to read much beyond the first sentence of any longish reply, just deciding that it's quicker to fill in the blanks himself and "decide" what was said.

Well, that's how it seems to me!

[DCUK Martin]

If you're referring to Bill, that's not quite correct: he bought an engine which was designed to run on propane; that's why it has different motor mounts and no injector ports.

It had different engine mounts because it's a different lower crank case. Actually the DeLorean one is the odd one, the type he has is much more common!

Only K-Jet put the injectors in the heads, all EFI engines have them in the intake manifold.

[Farrar]

Bill never seems to read much beyond the first sentence of any longish reply,

Some people are like this -- my boss, for example; I have learned not to ask him more than one question, or make more than one suggestion, per e-mail -- any more and they will be ignored.


Only K-Jet put the injectors in the heads, all EFI engines have them in the intake manifold.

So Bill has a perfect engine for EFI! Now all we have to do is convince him ... ;)

Farrar

[sean]

So Bill has a perfect engine for EFI! Now all we have to do is convince him ... ;)

Farrar

Signs you know the apocalypse is upon us.

[Lou and "Boo"]

I know I'm a total newbie here and I may be outta line but I like bill . He is helping me out a great deal . I am reviving a car that sat outdoors for fifteen years. I decided to,go carb right off the bat instead of wasting time and money in kjet. I too am saving my kjet hardware in hopes of making my dmc original again, but now I want a weekend not a headache. Bill is even driving from north Carolina to dc to long island to help me with my car. So let's give him the benefit of all doubts. I for one am a big bill Robertson fan, and I think the car is silly too.

[Farrar]

We like Bill, too -- it's why we talk about him all the time. :)

Now if he would only accept my Facebook friend request...

Farrar

[congerz83]

Bill SUCKS!
:hysterical:

[SamHill]

I know I'm a total newbie here and I may be outta line but I like bill . He is helping me out a great deal . I am reviving a car that sat outdoors for fifteen years. I decided to,go carb right off the bat instead of wasting time and money in kjet. I too am saving my kjet hardware in hopes of making my dmc original again, but now I want a weekend not a headache. Bill is even driving from north Carolina to dc to long island to help me with my car. So let's give him the benefit of all doubts. I for one am a big bill Robertson fan, and I think the car is silly too.

It's not too late to change your mind and go EFI! Please refer to the new EFI subform, the five, count them FIVE technical sub-sub forums, and the FOUR individual conversion sub-sub forums! With one or two years of work, you too can be on your way.

[sean]

It's not too late to change your mind and go EFI! Please refer to the new EFI subform, the five, count them FIVE technical sub-sub forums, and the FOUR individual conversion sub-sub forums! With one or two years of work, you too can be on your way.

Pretty sweet, right!

[SamHill]

Pretty sweet, right!

Needs more subforums!

[Farrar]

And more idle speed motors!

[opethmike]

I'd like to suggest two new sub-forums

"EFI guys shit on carb guys"
"Carb guys shit on EFI guys"

[sean]

Needs more subforums!

Ill bounce it off of Owen. We'll see if we can satisfy your thirst for more subforum.


6483

[Farrar]

A single "Cleveland Steamer" subforum would work.

*runs away in horror*

[SamHill]

A single "Cleveland Steamer" subforum would work.

*runs away in horror*

A Sean sucks subforum! Imagine the shit flying everywhere like a motorcycle stuck in the mud!

[Ron]

A Sean sucks subforum! Imagine the shit flying everywhere like a motorcycle stuck in the mud!:hysterical:Isn't that what this and the other poll thread are really?

[congerz83]

:rolleyes1: Ok... I think I've stayed out of this long enough. I guess I'll finally throw myself into this Bill/Carb bonfire...



he's helped me more than a few times


I also have experienced the benefits of Bill's knowledge. He helped teach me how to swap a radiator and how to remove the center console. The latter knowledge is one I put into play often. He has also been very generous in other ways. Using his warrantee at AutoZone, for a battery for my car, saved me $100+ at a time when I really needed to save money. He also gave me a used radiator that I used until I upgraded to Hervey's. They were both selfless gestures.



Why is it that everyone who slaps a carb on their car automatically gets it in their head that they are somehow a "thorn in the purists side"? It almost like they want to be the red headed stepchild, the scourge of the Delorean community and take some kind of pleasure in it


Please do not put me in this category. (I know you were generalizing and not being personal). What bothers me is the simple answers to inquiries that may question the veracity of Bill's beliefs, seem to enrage him. As mentioned before, too many wasted posts.. "Bulls**t, Nonsense, K-Jet is Crap... K-Jet is s**t... K-Jet was the third gunman on the grassy knoll..." etc. Bill is much better than that. I guess that's why it annoys me when I see it.


No one is EVER going to agree on personal preferences or matters of opinion. So for people to arrogantly make quick degratory statements about preference or opinion, makes the post useless.



Only two carb users proselytize; the rest of us don't.


Sweeping generalizations are never a good thing. Farrar


:thumbup: But again, I didn't take that statement personally.



I find Bill's technical knowledge very useful


Agreed...



inferior fuel delivery systems


With all due respect, I find this to be strictly opinion. Although it does seem that there are a lot more components to it, I find K-Jet complicated because I have had the time to devote to learning more about it... yet.



Stubborn minded people


Let's be fair. Isn't this a "pot and kettle" scenario?

Bill and others are just as devoted to there methods as the "purists".



I'm not joking when I talk down to people who have inferior fuel delivery systems. Stubborn minded people deserve to be talked down too.


I do not think anyone "deserves" to be "talked down" to. I do mean "deserve", not that people don't have the RIGHT to talk down to others. This is a free country. Just keep in mind that there are consequences to this style of communication.

PLEASE NOTE: Not attacking Steve at all! That was a "in general" statement. He has been very helpful in Bill's absence regarding carb stuff and some of Bill's other ideas that I agree with (full-size spare).

He's also ligntning fast with replies.:biggrin:



Originally Posted by Ron
Bill SUCKS!:hysterical:


I'll clarify... this is not a personal attack on Bill either. I just found the blunt randomness of this statement amazingly funny. Very "New York-er" of Ron. BTW Ron is also very helpful and very willing to take the time for detailed answers to my questions. He's also good to "shoot the s**t" with too. :thumbup2:



No one is ever going to agree on personal preferences or matters of opinion. So for prople to arrogantly make quick derogatory statements about preference, opinion, or person, makes the post useless.



Before I get called a hippocrite for finding Ron's "Bill Sucks" so funny, I will ammend the above statement. Quick derogatory statements are not a waste... if they're genuinly funny.



Ignoring someone asking for help or understanding and responding with such as, "I am the Evil Overlord of Alternate Delorean Fuel [or Ignition] Delivery", no matter how comical, SUCKS!


... although I do agree with this statement. Though I'm not accusing anyone of this. Bill still answers my e-mails.



he couldn't get his K-Jet working and had to resort to carbs.



This honestly described my situation perfectly. I won't deny it. When I have more time to learn (and a garage) i'll explore options with my new knowledge.




His response was that setting up carburetors was simplistic, that anyone could do it on their own.


I have found this to be completely UN-true...


I feel I've honestly explained my reason for my swap. However, unlike others, I'm not totally 100% thrilled with it. It's been a pain in the a** at times, and I'm probably going to need to take it to a friend of mine who has experience with old Ford carbs. To be totally fair, I'm sure my lack of knowledge with carbs, just like my lack of knowledge with K-Jet does not help the situation. The benefits of the "Bill-Carb" set-up is that the car does run now. It seemed like a quick solution to get my car running. Also in my OPINION (I cannot stress that enough), I feel it's less complicated to get your car home when it breaks down. Also, after cleaning up grounds and making new connections that looked poor, the fuel pump has had power 100%..... so far.


I'm not sure what the future will bring regardning my fuel system, but I will absolutely not close my mind to ANY options.


In closing (readers breathe a sigh of relief), Bill's word should NOT be gospel. Nobody's should. He should also NOT be treated as some type of all-knowing God.:screwy: Bill is an educated man with a ton of helpful ideas that can really help others in need. He is very creative and offers methods that can help make a car safer and more reliable. However, this forum is a resource chock-full of people just like Bill. The opinions and methods are the only things that differ. So my advise to ANY-one regarding ANY future plans on ANY-thing Delorean-related is... do your homework, read a LOT about it, and take advantage of EVERYONE'S knowledge to make your OWN decision. It's like many lessons in life. When you have the benefit of learning from more that one person, you can "frankenstein" many ideas to develope a plan that works for you/your lifestyle/Delorean. Always remember 1) KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. 2) NEVER CLOSE YOUR MIND TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF OTHERS.


P.S. Where's David T? I want his input. I also want to use this smiley :yoda:, and change his name to "Delorean Yoda" so I can use that smiley more often.


P.S.S. CONTEST Who can think of a better name for Bill's conversion? I think it needs a name. I'm too typed-out to thinK of anything better than "Bill-Carb".


THIS IS A SERIOUS REQUEST. PLEASE TRY TO KEEP THIS CLASSY

[sean]

A Sean sucks subforum! Imagine the shit flying everywhere like a motorcycle stuck in the mud!

Naw, we dont need that. You do a good enough job with your posts not to warrant one.


:hysterical:Isn't that what this and the other poll thread are really?


Pretty much. Again, a very select few continue to grumble the most.

[Dracula]

For Farrar's name idea: "Car-bill-rated" is all that comes to mind. I did enjoy your post and summation; good show, good show, indeed.

Now I'm going to add a little of my personal opinion to the matter, so please bear with me. My car is EXTENSIVELY modified from the stock configuration, yet I don't base my identity on that because I have the car configured EXACTLY as I wanted it and that's what matters. I think that a good part of the reason that I don't take nearly as much flak for what I've made my car into is because it's what's deemed "acceptable" modifications.

Here's where things get interesting: I've often contemplated converting my car to a carburetor setup. I'm a classical vehicle enthusiast and I know carbs rather well. When I was in high school, I once built a replacement carburetor out of 4 beer cans to limp my '51 Chevy home when the original one cracked and was leaking fuel. I love their versatility and how well they come back from prolonged sitting. Ultimately, though, the reason I decided against it was because I couldn't think of a good way to get a nice, big, performance 4-bbl carb onto the DeLorean for a price that was reasonable.

Now, personally once more, I like Bill's enthusiasm. I hope to meet him at DCS; some potential issues that may prevent me from attending notwithstanding. I also get the fact that he comes off as a different person online. It's not hard to do. To some extent, though, don't we all? If I post here that I like straight Bourbon whiskey, nobody will think much of it. If you see me in person, you'd never think that I'd like it and would assume that I'm a featherweight due to my 130 lb. frame. It's all in getting to know any person.

*This next section is 100% personal opinion! Read at your own risk!* I think that Bill has a legitimate desire to help people with their DeLoreans and is extremely enthusiastic, yet he's somewhat misguided in his approach. He clearly has a passion for the cars and he seems to assume that, when he encounters a new owner, that they have the same passion and goals as he does. This is why the problems flare up. Many owners of classic cars; not just DeLoreans, are purists. It's a part of the hobby. His assumptions are that they all want to work on the car and tinker with it like he does. This isn't the case most of the time and where the animosity comes from. I hope that he keeps helping people get the cars reliable and running. I want to see as many non-BTTF cars being driven as possible and I welcome carbs as long as they save the parts to undo the conversion for the sake of DeLorean history.

[sean]

For congerz83's name idea: "Car-bill-rated" is all that comes to mind. I did enjoy your post and summation; good show, good show, indeed.

Fixed that for ya.

[Dracula]

Fixed that for ya.

Bleh; thank you. I've been going too long without sleeping.

[stevedmc]

A Sean sucks subforum! Imagine the shit flying everywhere like a motorcycle stuck in the mud!

We had something like that a month or so ago called "Bill doesn't like DMCTalk mods so lets bash a moderator".

Sean closed it.

[sean]

We had something like that a month or so ago called "Bill doesn't like DMCTalk mods so lets bash a moderator".

Sean closed it.

True dat! When the level of stupid comes full circle and starts to repeat it's time to close. Heck, this one is getting there now. I havent heard mention of Bill & DML for a while.

[Dangermouse]

True dat! When the level of stupid comes full circle and starts to repeat it's time to close. Heck, this one is getting there now. I havent heard mention of Bill & DML for a while.

Challenge Accepted !

The dml has certainly been revitalized by the carb-man. He and Martin are critiquing each others opinions daily.

[sean]

The dml has certainly been revitalized by the carb-man.

Heck yes it has. So if you want to stroke his ego, among other things, feel free to proclaim his greatness over there.

[SamHill]

Challenge Accepted !


Blam! I thought I was going to be first doing that.

As EFI has been given the Taj Mahal, I did think up some alternate instructions for the Carb "seedy stripmall" subforum I know Sean is dying to implement.

"This purpose of this subforum is to provide technical references for the conversion of the DeLoreans to Car-Bill-ation and for documenting individual project progress. It is not for debating one form of fuel delivery over any other and the thread author reserves the right to audit/edit or have removed, any posts at his discretion. These guidelines are clearly presented in advance and if you do not wish to abide by them, please feel free to refrain from contributing to this subforum."

Oh snap, who am I kidding, that would never happen.

[Dracula]

Blam! I thought I was going to be first doing that.

As EFI has been given the Taj Mahal, I did think up some alternate instructions for the Carb "seedy stripmall" subforum I know Sean is dying to implement.

"This purpose of this subforum is to provide technical references for the conversion of the DeLoreans to Car-Bill-ation and for documenting individual project progress. It is not for debating one form of fuel delivery over any other and the thread author reserves the right to audit/edit or have removed, any posts at his discretion. These guidelines are clearly presented in advance and if you do not wish to abide by them, please feel free to refrain from contributing to this subforum."

Oh snap, who am I kidding, that would never happen.

It seems like my naming idea is already catching on.

[sean]

Oh snap, who am I kidding, that would never happen.

It can, I just need someone to champion it and provide guidance. Problem is the best champion in mind would probably argue the shit out of the area making it pretty much useless.

I didn't reallize you were so full of great ideas samIam, step up and provide guidance and we'll make it happen. Seems to me though you'd just rather sit and bitch about things.

[Dangermouse]

Heck yes it has. So if you want to stroke his ego, among other things, feel free to proclaim his greatness over there.

That's OK. I'm a watcher, not a stroker.....

[SamHill]

It can, I just need someone to champion it and provide guidance. Problem is the best champion in mind would probably argue the shit out of the area making it pretty much useless.

I didn't reallize you were so full of great ideas samIam, step up and provide guidance and we'll make it happen. Seems to me though you'd just rather sit and bitch about things.

We demand a homeland! Provide safe passage for Bill's return and a confined ghetto of carb-only documentation and perhaps he will return from the list-servs of yore.

[tyb323]

True dat! When the level of stupid comes full circle and starts to repeat it's time to close.

I just don't get why you close them though? If the conversation is truly over, the thread will naturally die.

Shutting threads because you think the conversation is over is kind of like putting down the family dog because it threw up...

Just let them naturally die

[opethmike]

We demand a homeland! Provide safe passage for Bill's return and a confined ghetto of carb-only documentation and perhaps he will return from the list-servs of yore.

Or how about you man up and start the carb sub-forum yourself?

[SamHill]

Or how about you man up and start the carb sub-forum yourself?

How about you allow an area where you give Bill the same lattitude naturally extended to EFI'ers and I'll moderate it?

[sean]

We demand a homeland! Provide safe passage for Bill's return and a confined ghetto of carb-only documentation and perhaps he will return from the list-servs of yore.
:8ball:


Just let them naturally die
Because they historically don't. They lay dormant for a week or so then (example) Steve posts his "Sean Sucks" gem then folks start up with the same garbage as if the previous 10 pages of posts weren't there.

[opethmike]

How about you allow an area where you give Bill the same lattitude naturally extended to EFI'ers and I'll moderate it?

As I thought, you ignored my question and replied with a defensive one of your own. Good job, Bill Junior.

How would you expect me to allow/create such an area when I'm not a moderator? Care to actually answer my question as to why you don't put the work in to have a carb area created yourself?

[SamHill]

As I thought, you ignored my question and replied with a defensive one of your own. Good job, Bill Junior.

How would you expect me to allow/create such an area when I'm not a moderator? Care to actually answer my question as to why you don't put the work in to have a carb area created yourself?

No, you attempted to put a burden on me that is not mine to bear. Why would I do it? I'm the consumer of the information, not the generator. I never held myself out as someone knowledgeable on welding aluminum or making tuna can baffles or any of it. If you want technical information from me, you're going to be waiting a while.

There's no actual "work" to have a carb area created other than requesting it, is there? If you need a balance of power against Bill when it comes to moderation, I offer my services. What more do you want?

[Farrar]

The DML has been quieter the past two days. Methinks the list is being moderated again... ;)

Farrar

[Soundkillr]

How about you allow an area where you give Bill the same lattitude naturally extended to EFI'ers and I'll moderate it?

This is funny. This has been said, and i will say it again. Bill has done this to himself. He has been called out countless times about his attitude/approach. He knows he is an ass and doesnt care. I for one think the forum has flowed better since HE LEFT. I personally hope he doesnt come back. Back to my point though. He was not singled out, it was his attitude that got him a time out. Had i been a mod he would have been gone after his first personal attack on any member. Countless times he belittled people and was never outed.

[SamHill]

Bill has done this to himself.

Truth! As Bill had the temerity and gall to defend himself, I would first present a compendium of insults hurled at Bill from those valiant souls who have taken the high road:

"Redheaded step child, scourge of the Delorean community" (Michael, post 4.)
"Martyr Robinson" (Sean, post 10.)
"Minions" (Rob, twice in post 56.)
"Evil Overlord" (Ron, post 60.)
"an ass." (Soundkillr, post 106.)

Not enough to criticise Bill, anyone who speaks up for him is coddling a sociopath:

"[like] a parent of someone who was caught on tape committing heinous, unspeakable crimes." (DMCVEGAS).

Our cars are now garbage anyway as it "...bastardizes Deloreans which makes them completely unsaleable." (ArnieBrandon, post 20.)

All this from people who "don't care." Oh, some care enough to warn future babes in the woods by owners who are "not being ones to sit by apathetically to watch another... unknowingly spend money in the wrong direction." (Ron, post 56.) Just don't carry that attitude to the EFI Taj, it's strictly verboten. There is only one way.

At least the equitable mod does not encourage or support driving away a poster who enjoys support from a good many members.

The guy's just bitter. Why is he so bitter!

[Soundkillr]

Do you really think everyone just decided to ban against poor bill? Honestly? If i had the time or desire i could show you almost case for case where Bill started it. In my case for instance i asked Bill an honest question and was branded an ignorant fool. I tried not to lower myself to his level but did point out to him he was an ass. I made no secret of it or apology. Think about who you are running to the rescue of. I have helped countless owners and have done so without name calling or branding my repairs end all be all solutions. If i pissed off as many people as he has, i would have to ask myself what am i doing wrong?

[SamHill]

Do you really think everyone just decided to ban against poor bill? Honestly??

This would be a "strawman." I didn't say that "everyone" decided to band against Bill, in fact, in the very last sentence I said that some members enjoyed his posts. Honestly!


If i had the time or desire i could show you almost case for case where Bill started it.

Even if taken as true, "he started it" isn't among the most persuasive of arguments in life.


If i pissed off as many people as he has, i would have to ask myself what am i doing wrong?

Oftentimes, an idea or collection of ideas that act of a catalyst get people riled up simply because they are different. How many times does this happen where people turn not ONLY against the idea but the person promoting it as well? Many of your heroes, I'll bet.



Think about who you are running to the rescue of.

The guy that came to my house, gave me Cheerwine and fixed my damn car.

[Soundkillr]

He started it may not be the most persuasive of arguments but niether is showing quotes from others without the full backstory or said argumebt that prompted said quote.
Bill is no idealist. People dont turn against him for an idea or approach. It is infact his abraisive personality that earned him his spot.
I am glad he helped you out. I have traveled on my own dime to help other owners as well but have done so without insults or unwillingness to see some solutions as the only way.



This would be a "strawman." I didn't say that "everyone" decided to band against Bill, in fact, in the very last sentence I said that some members enjoyed his posts. Honestly!



Even if taken as true, "he started it" isn't among the most persuasive of arguments in life.



Oftentimes, an idea or collection of ideas that act of a catalyst get people riled up simply because they are different. How many times does this happen where people turn not ONLY against the idea but the person promoting it as well? Many of your heroes, I'll bet.



The guy that came to my house, gave me Cheerwine and fixed my damn car.

[stevedmc]

This forum always amazes me. All I did was start a friendly little poll and we are already at post #111.

It seems all you have to do is mention Bill's name and people go nuts either talking good or bad about him.

[SamHill]

He started it may not be the most persuasive of arguments but niether is showing quotes from others without the full backstory or said argumebt that prompted said quote.

I'm not sure how to cure that. They are all from this very thread, and cited. Fresh, like cookies from the oven.



Bill is no idealist. People dont turn against him for an idea or approach.

I beg to differ and refer back to the the very quotes I cited. That our cars are unsaleable garbage, that we are spending money in the wrong direction, etc. That we are taking the wrong approach is absolutely the bone of contention among some.


I have traveled on my own dime to help other owners as well but have done so without insults or unwillingness to see some solutions as the only way.

I know the feeling.



I am glad he helped you out.


Thanks! Time to close it out for the night. See y'all tomorrow.

[Soundkillr]

I guess my point i am trying to make is, citing examples of issues people have with bill can not be summed up from comments taken from others in this thread or others without a full back story, which lets be honest dates all the way back to the .com site and would take to long. The people you quoted as out to get bill did not all come together to go after him. Bill did it himself, and did so by insulting most users. I cited my example. I noted others over the years.
Some comments about junk cars are in fact jokingly made, but i cannot address most of these. You have to take it as jesting, much like i have to do as instructed by people who swear Bill doesnt mean what he says half the time.
In the end i know we disagree about most the issue, and thats fine. He has pissed me off, and has helped you so we are at two ends of the spectrum. I mearly point out bill has done this to himself, and perhaps should monitor his online persona.



I'm not sure how to cure that. They are all from this very thread, and cited. Fresh, like cookies from the oven.




I beg to differ and refer back to the the very quotes I cited. That our cars are unsaleable garbage, that we are spending money in the wrong direction, etc. That we are taking the wrong approach is absolutely the bone of contention among some.



I know the feeling.




Thanks! Time to close it out for the night. See y'all tomorrow.

[tyb323]

Once again, for the last and final time. You can't judge Bill based off his online persona. It's all a joke to him. You know, ha ha? Funny funny? Lol I troll u?

Basically comparing Bill's online persona to his real life persona is like saying that the level 44 mage guy from World of Warcraft (have no idea what I'm talking about here) is the coolest guy in the world, when in real life he's a pimply faced basement dwelling loser.

People act different online from the way they act in real life and any of you that think you are exactly the same here as you are in person is delusional.

[sean]

This forum always amazes me.....

PUH-LEASE! You love to stir the shitpot and this is exactly what you wanted to happen.

[Soundkillr]

Once again, for the last and final time. You can't judge Bill based off his online persona. It's all a joke to him. You know, ha ha? Funny funny? Lol I troll u?

Basically comparing Bill's online persona to his real life persona is like saying that the level 44 mage guy from World of Warcraft (have no idea what I'm talking about here) is the coolest guy in the world, when in real life he's a pimply faced basement dwelling loser.

People act different online from the way they act in real life and any of you that think you are exactly the same here as you are in person is delusional.

I hear ya but, if online Bill is all anyone knows what does it matter what he does in real life. Not arguing just making a point. Most people even if online, at least try to be polite (or so it has seemed to me) i have met bill in person. He was ok, but it is his internet actions that have caused arguments between us. I invited him to take it to pm to fully explain his point, but he thought it more fitting to throw insults and side arguments into the thread. I have seen him do this to others as well.
I see i have come full circle on my point. No point in going on about it...

[Ron]

I'm sorry but this comes across just like the Evil Overlord of Alternative Fuel/Ignition Delivery! Don't know the background, evidently, skim through things, post things taken out of context w/o links, and make bad conclusions/implications on something current. The only difference is Bill knows it from the begining (or shortly thereafter) but don't give a rats ass, it is intentional...just go to his profile and read all of his post...
Don't get me wrong, I respect the effort, but it is misguided and uninformed.


Truth! As Bill had the temerity and gall to defend himself, I would first present a compendium of insults hurled at Bill from those valiant souls who have taken the high road:
"Redheaded step child, scourge of the Delorean community" (Michael, post 4.)
Not true!: This was something ASKED about (granted aimed at) the minions, not Hurled at Bill.


"Martyr Robinson" (Sean, post 10.)
True!: And so is the thought! (He was Banned and...Oh yeah, it was really his password and he didn't think to contact the mods and...Oh yeah, Sean told him it was just moderated posts and...Oh, yeah, he still couldn't get on even though Mike checked it out and...Oh, where is Bill now) Wake UP!
Please don't say you don't blame him for something that supposedly never happened...)


"Minions" (Rob, twice in post 56.)
Not true!That wasn't Rob, it was my post, and it's in there three times, not two.
Sorry that seemed to be the accepted name, do you prefer "disciple(s)"?


"Evil Overlord" (Ron, post 60.)
It seems you have also missed that "The Evil Overload of Alternative Fuel Delivery" is a name Bill gave himself and has used it several times, so why shouldn't I...especially in the context I repeated it in?


"an ass." (Soundkillr, post 106.)
Bill is an ass, to anyone who asks a question even hinting at disagreement, usually immediately, with both barrels .
What would you call a person who calls another an "Ignorant Fool" (another Bill quote you evidently missed) for asking a questions in a reasonable manner, who knows they don't answer questions and tell several people they can kiss his ass if they don't like it, in someone else's thread half the time yet?


Not enough to criticise Bill, anyone who speaks up for him is coddling a sociopath:
Despite your experience with him, you just don't know the full/other story(s)!
(I don't just mean not being up on the posts here and on .com).
I can tell you one and fully document it (again), but it's useless.
I know of several more but I can not repeat them because the people explicitly asked saying Bill/minions would harass them.


"[like] a parent of someone who was caught on tape committing heinous, unspeakable crimes." (DMCVEGAS).
Better than ridiculous as screams to free a pedophile priest at a orphanage because of all the good he has done...
Our cars are now garbage anyway as it "...bastardizes Deloreans which makes them completely unsaleable." (ArnieBrandon, post 20.)

All this from people who "don't care." Oh, some care enough to warn future babes in the woods by owners who are "not being ones to sit by apathetically to watch another... unknowingly spend money in the wrong direction." (Ron, post 56.) Just don't carry that attitude to the EFI Taj, it's strictly verboten. There is only one way.

I have never criticized Bill or anyone for modding their car (except in wide open mutual banter ;-). He's call me purist after explicitly asking everyone "Why not carb?" and I only say two words, "Resale value." In fact (something else you must have missed), I was among the first to cheer Bill on in carbing his D and the ignition mods. I have tried to help carbers in his self-imposed absence. After being told, "Bullshit...electricity don't travel through those grounds!" and other ridiculous insults and oddball ideas (read them they are mingled everywhere, right along with the good things), I gave up. Now I just try to keep him honest and/or present a solution, if it is significant. He can answer the question and call me a fool, or do as he does most of the time and post BS that he has to answer for or ignore and/or make personal attacks, which speaks for itself. And if I see a potential problem in the EFI threads, or any other thread, I will ask because it will help or I will learn. And anyone who wouldn't do the same, at least to help, verboten or not, is an ass.



At least the equitable mod does not encourage or support driving away a poster who enjoys support from a good many members.
Haven't you heard? He isn't supporting them. He isn't answering e-mails. He took his toys and left because he couldn't change the rules to suit himself!


The guy's just bitter. Why is he so bitter!
That's the effect of wine made of sour grapes. Word!

[sean]

I'm sorry but ... Word!

:thankyou::thumbup:

[stevedmc]

PUH-LEASE! You love to stir the shitpot and this is exactly what you wanted to happen.

Amen

[Michael]

I would first present a compendium of insults hurled at Bill from those valiant souls who have taken the high road:

"Redheaded step child, scourge of the Delorean community" (Michael, post 4.)

That was taken out of context, and I never called him that...would you like the entire quote to jog your memory? It was written on the first page, funny how these "direct quotes" get twisted to fit someone's argument.


Why is it that everyone who slaps a carb on their car automatically gets it in their head that they are somehow a "thorn in the purists side"? It's almost like they want to be the red headed stepchild, the scourge of the Delorean community and take some kind of pleasure in it but there is just one problem...The purists don't care, I don't care, and according to the poll, nobody else cares either.

Here is a quote that's not taken out of context:
I don't like "online Bill"...I think he likes to stir the pot and start arguments for his own amusement. Of course according to everyone else, in person he is not like that which is par for the course with most people like this. They know that their chances for getting their ass kicked are 0 from behind the keyboard, in person the "online personality" hides behind "Mr. Nice guy". I have no respect for that, I am the same in person as I am here, and I suspect most genuine people are.




People act different online from the way they act in real life and any of you that think you are exactly the same here as you are in person is delusional.

You are incorrect, and I know. I have met a LOT of people in person after meeting first online who are exactly the same. Adults are like that sometimes.

[Ron]

I beg to differ and refer back to the the very quotes I cited.
... that we are spending money in the wrong direction, etc.
First, "we" who? Carbers? If so, where did I ever say anything like that! I was speaking of the example below, and other BS claims Bill has made, NOT personal choices. Please quit taking my words out of context and/or making implications with or w/o the background knowledge.

One of many endless arguments, show me the light- Bill says that replacing a good stock D coil only, will boost performance on an otherwise good running D. I said that wasn't true and why. He bowed up with his ego and attacked, rudely. Then for spite, ass in the air, he starts pushing that crap in threads whenever he can wedge it in and randomly out of nowhere, everywhere (between carb conversion plugs, which I don't care about, and, he pushed the argument to someone else, with a different situation, of coarse). The fact is that it is like swapping a bigger battery for a smaller but good battery, a light will burn with the same brightness (difference is that it will burn longer). The stock coil will produce whatever the plugs 'want', no more (and have reserve!) Not to mention names, another, well respected member, told him, and a EE told him. Then he plays paperchase and posts an uncited quote, which turned out to be his own yet!!!, and posts a ton of documentation (so long few would read it) to prove different, which contradicts his conclusions. I tell him that. A different EE tells him that. "Bullshit". He post the crap again and claims he has answered all the questions (flat lie). Quote several including that to show him. He offers proof of the one only, where the whole system was ripped out. Point out that is not the same, and the question(s) again. He then denies ever saying it!!!, and ignores the rest, yet again. It's all here on the forum, along with several of other examples, many just as clear cut and blatant. [I can't cite 100's of posts, just follow his posts, you'll see]
So tell me, why should I not show/tell the OPs that it is spending their money in the wrong direction here and why, not to mention if Bill does it, he will probably remove the real problem when he removes/cleans/bypasses/etc the OP's original problem in the process, and say, "See, those guys are are ignorant fools!", and have another voice misleading tons of people with other ignition problems... It's not about preference/choice or opinion whatsoever, it's about scientific fact, needless expense and BS followed by insults to OPs asking for help and others trying to give it, not to mention trashing unrelated threads! He does this crap because he hopes we will tire of it and his posts will appear as a "winning" blow and the silence an admission that he was right. When all he needed to do was say is, "Yeah that's right" and even skip "sorry" unless it is ALL intentional (which I doubt). I quit when it is obvious or he starts again. WTH?
Why should he mislead, insult, and ignore OPs AND several fellow members trying to help, and yet maintain/deserve loyalty?...to the point that you trash other people you don't know offline, have few problems, if any, other than with Bill, and have not taken the time to see what is really going on online before doing so?
You're not so different than us- You are here now saying what you think is wrong and offering what you think is right...the difference is you are not prepared with the background/knowledge and, frankly, we were. As I said in the other post, I respect the thought, but IMO it would be better for my (our) posts and Bill's post to speak for themselves, in context, especially when you are not familiar with them (or his other actions offline............).
Only Bill can/could end the BS -- But it seems he lives for it since he has nothing better to do -- think about it (all)!

[Ron]

AmenYour online persona SUCKS!!!

BTW, my real me asked me to ask you to please thank the real you for lunch!

[stevedmc]

Your online persona SUCKS!!!

BTW, my real me asked me to ask you to please thank the real you for lunch!

No problem. Thanks for doing the drive axles for me.

Now that we've got that out of the way, lets get back to war!

[tyb323]

You are incorrect, and I know. I have met a LOT of people in person after meeting first online who are exactly the same. Adults are like that sometimes.

Well if I am to go off that then, I am going to assume that 90% of DeLorean owners are assholes constantly out to rip each other down, because that's what this forum is turning into. However, after meeting several people in person, I can tell you that most DeLorean owners are friendly and helpful people. I don't judge people off of this website because it just isn't representative of everyone. Example: Sean and I may disagree here, but if/when we meet in person, we may be good buddies. Stranger things have happened.

[stevedmc]

Replacing the ignition coil and increasing spark plug gap sucks if you don't increase voltage going into the ignition coil.

[sean]

Example: Sean and I may disagree here, but if/when we meet in person, we may be good buddies. Stranger things have happened.

I think this will be true. I think SuperSteve did when he came to my place two weeks ago even though Ron hogged all his time. You should beer it up with Farrar and I at DCS.

[stevedmc]

I think this will be true. I think SuperSteve did when he came to my place two weeks ago even though Ron hogged all his time. You should beer it up with Farrar and I at DCS.

Sean is pretty cool in person but I still enjoy being a jerk on here. Somebody has to give Sean a hard time now that Bill is gone.

[sean]

Somebody has to give Sean a hard time now that Bill is gone.

Well dont worry, if you want to slack off for a bit others seem to be chomping at the bit to help fill in.

:tongue:

[Farrar]

You should beer it up with Farrar and I at DCS.

Absolutely. I have lost 20 pounds this year and I will lose more just so that I can drink tasty, tasty, empty calories at DCS Orlando. :)

Farrar

[Dracula]

Absolutely. I have lost 20 pounds this year and I will lose more just so that I can drink tasty, tasty, empty calories at DCS Orlando. :)

Farrar

If you REALLY want to lose weight, wear a suit and cape in the hot summer heat. You'll sweat out enough beer that you can drink all day.

[tyb323]

If you REALLY want to lose weight, wear a suit and cape in the hot summer heat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNUbPRj9TGM&feature=related

[Dracula]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNUbPRj9TGM&feature=related

Pish-posh! I'll wear a cape and nobody but NOBODY will tell me otherwise. For that matter, there's no chance that I'm going to get caught on a missile or sucked into a jet engine or the likes. Besides, someone has to bring the cape back.

[Ron]

Well if I am to go off that then, I am going to assume that 90% of DeLorean owners are assholes constantly out to rip each other down, because that's what this forum is turning into. However, after meeting several people in person, I can tell you that most DeLorean owners are friendly and helpful people. I don't judge people off of this website because it just isn't representative of everyone. Example: Sean and I may disagree here, but if/when we meet in person, we may be good buddies. ...
I agree with this. You never know. For example:

No problem. Thanks for doing the drive axles for me.
Although I've met up with people since BBS days and have learned not to prejudge, the Steve I expected to meet would say this to be polite and maybe mean it, but the one I met means it wholeheartedly -- Neither SteveDMC (who is starting the vicious circle again, in typical style ;-)
D owners I've met are mostly the same except w/ofor the friendly banter (until everyone matches faces and relaxes. Then is when the nukes come out ;-)
Bill, was typical Bill, but not rude AT ALL (although his horse trading seriously SUCKS!!!).

I don't get the 'persona separation'. The idea of "it's just an online persona" would apply to all involved! If one could do as pleases, then another can rag him if that's what pleases him. And for yet another to rag the second for doing it is hypocritical three fold, if "?hiding behind?" the idea too. Anarchy! Either way, judging Bill Robertson would not be an issue here because it's only online Bill anyway. I hope the forum never becomes like this -- It has much more to offer than laughs and other entertainment! And it will only continue to work if we moderate ourselves, even if it takes a mod to do it!
Bottom line IMO- the real person is responsible, period.


... Stranger things have happened.Now, now, don't let your online persona prejudge Sean's meeting persona. :tongue_stick:
=====

Now that we've got that out of the way, lets get back to war!

Replacing the ignition coil and increasing spark plug gap sucks if you don't increase voltage going into the ignition coil.
That's not back to war!
(It's an ideal we all have agreed is possible [but not the rule] from day one.)

You should have offered Sean and Tyler a room!


Sean is pretty cool in person but I still enjoy being a jerk on here. Somebody has to give Sean a hard time now that Bill is gone.Missed a good chance (see above).


Absolutely. I have lost 20 pounds this year and I will lose more just so that I can drink tasty, tasty, empty calories at DCS Orlando. :)20 pounds for net weigh gain!?! --Man we could of used you on the old college team!

[stevedmc]

I agree with this. You never know. For example:

Although I've met up with people since BBS days and have learned not to prejudge, the Steve I expected to meet would say this to be polite and maybe mean it, but the one I met means it wholeheartedly -- Neither SteveDMC (who is starting the vicious circle again, in typical style ;-)
D owners I've met are mostly the same except w/ofor the friendly banter (until everyone matches faces and relaxes. Then is when the nukes come out ;-)
Bill, was typical Bill, but not rude AT ALL (although his horse trading seriously SUCKS!!!).

I don't get the 'persona separation'. The idea of "it's just an online persona" would apply to all involved! If one could do as pleases, then another can rag him if that's what pleases him. And for yet another to rag the second for doing it is hypocritical three fold, if "?hiding behind?" the idea too. Anarchy! Either way, judging Bill Robertson would not be an issue here because it's only online Bill anyway. I hope the forum never becomes like this -- It has much more to offer than laughs and other entertainment! And it will only continue to work if we moderate ourselves, even if it takes a mod to do it!
Bottom line IMO- the real person is responsible, period.

Now, now, don't let your online persona prejudge Sean's meeting persona. :tongue_stick:
=====


That's not back to war!
(It's an ideal we all have agreed is possible [but not the rule] from day one.)

You should have offered Sean and Tyler a room!

Missed a good chance (see above).

20 pounds for net weigh gain!?! --Man we could of used you on the old college team!

All of that stuff was way over what my puny little mind can possibly understand. Hence the reason I never learned K-Jet.

[Ron]

All of that stuff was way over what my puny little mind can possibly understand. Hence the reason I never learned K-Jet.
Cliff notes:
What up Tyler!
I've had a different experience. Most personas have been the same.
Steve is an exemption...um sorry, oddball.
Steve sucks here on the forum, but not as bad as Bill.
Both are uniquely pleasant in real life. (But don't horse trade with Bill! [Don't ask.])
People on/offline should be held responsible by others on/offline, w/ mutual respect.

Steve SUCKS!

Steve SUCKS!

Steve SUCKS!

Farrar can drink A LOT of brew!

[tyb323]

Now, now, don't let your online persona prejudge Sean's meeting persona. :tongue_stick:



Using my own stuff against me???!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/sheneedstherapy/WE-NEED-TO-GO-DEEPER.jpg

[Ron]

Using my own stuff against me???!!!Just a result of trying to see things your way, bro :o

[stevedmc]

Cliff notes:
What up Tyler!
I've had a different experience. Most personas have been the same.
Steve is an exemption...um sorry, oddball.
Steve sucks here on the forum, but not as bad as Bill.
Both are uniquely pleasant in real life. (But don't horse trade with Bill! [Don't ask.])
People on/offline should be held responsible by others on/offline, w/ mutual respect.

Steve SUCKS!

Steve SUCKS!

Steve SUCKS!

Farrar can drink A LOT of brew!


Um... Thanks, I think.

[thirdmanj]

Cliff notes:
What up Tyler!
I've had a different experience. Most personas have been the same.
Steve is an exemption...um sorry, oddball.
Steve sucks here on the forum, but not as bad as Bill.
Both are uniquely pleasant in real life. (But don't horse trade with Bill! [Don't ask.])
People on/offline should be held responsible by others on/offline, w/ mutual respect.

Steve SUCKS!

Steve SUCKS!

Steve SUCKS!

Farrar can drink A LOT of brew!

Add to that: the kid from Wisconsin likes capes.

[Dracula]

Add to that: the kid from Wisconsin likes capes.

Who are you calling a kid?

[thirdmanj]

Who are you calling a kid?

Well, I use it like slang I think. But for arguments sake, I'd say anyone 25 and under most certainly falls into "kid" category

[tyb323]

http://i40.tinypic.com/10cr95t.gif

I swear to god this thread has gone every which-a-way

[sean]

http://i40.tinypic.com/10cr95t.gif

I swear to god this thread has gone every which-a-way
Sums up these types of threads.

[Renee_1632]

I've never met Bill, and even though I have been annoyed by him once or twice, I can't get too mad because I am WAY more argumentative than him. I just hide it well (sometimes). I've pretty much suspended judgement, luckily for some of you.

Except Joey. I swear to God, if he goes to DCS, you'd better keep him the hell out of my sight. I don't suffer cocky douchebags well.

And for the record, I'm really not as much of a bitch in person, I'm actually (usually)nice :D

[sean]

And for the record, I'm really not as much of a bitch in person, I'm actually (usually)nice :D

This is true!

[tyb323]

Except Joey. I swear to God, if he goes to DCS, you'd better keep him the hell out of my sight. I don't suffer cocky douchebags well.

WHATCHU GOT AGAINST ROWDYGOWDY? That man is kind enough to show me a picture of his paycheck! What has he ever done to you? =)

[thirdmanj]

The majority may not give two shits about Bill. But it sure does seem to like using this thread as a jumping off point for everything-the-fuck-else.

Ain't it fun?

[Farrar]

I don't suffer cocky douchebags well.

But you work with Marines... ;)

Actually, it's interesting -- all of the Marines I've known have been super nice guys. Come to think of it, same with the Navy and the Air Force... at least in my family! :lol:

Wait, we're not talking about Bill! What's going on? :lockdance:

Farrar

[stevedmc]

WHATCHU GOT AGAINST ROWDYGOWDY? That man is kind enough to show me a picture of his paycheck! What has he ever done to you? =)

ROWDYGOWDY's paycheck sucks.

[Dracula]

ROWDYGOWDY's paycheck sucks.

I think we may have found a new randomly-interjected "sucks" phrase.

[sean]

I think we may have found a new randomly-interjected "sucks" phrase.

Which is why threads will never die....

[Dracula]

Which is why threads will never die....

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/evilbat.gif

(We need this smiley back and this one while we're at it: http://th10.photobucket.com/albums/a135/smileyalbum8888/th_381_mr_t.gif)

[Dangermouse]

Insert Ron's avatar here !

[sean]

Ha! Looks like I voted poorly, seems like the DML folk have already had their fill of him. Took faster than I thought it would to be honest.

Look at me resurrecting this pile of garbage :D

[1Mcfly4u]

Ha! Looks like I voted poorly, seems like the DML folk have already had their fill of him. Took faster than I thought it would to be honest.

Look at me resurrecting this pile of garbage :D

It's because secretly you miss Bill but just can't let everyone know that you care :shhh:

[TheDon]

I missed yet another epic ban

[sean]

It's because secretly you miss Bill but just can't let everyone know that you care :shhh:
You got it! Love that bipolar loon :8ball: :D

I missed yet another epic ban
naw, bill ain't banned but Joey was.

[opethmike]

Ha! Looks like I voted poorly, seems like the DML folk have already had their fill of him. Took faster than I thought it would to be honest.

Look at me resurrecting this pile of garbage :D

So Bill is DML banned/moderated now as well?

[sean]

So Bill is DML banned/moderated now as well?

No I don't think so, but folks are asking for it.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

No I don't think so, but folks are asking for it.

I just unsubscribed from the DML. I emailed Mike the moderator my two cents (nicely) after I got his attention, no response, and then a few more emails about Bill and someone discussing legal issues on LCA brackets,frame, etc. again...

It sucks that I had to cut ties with the DML because of a few individuals and, IMO, redundant and unconstructive junk conversation, that has lost alot of my time and patience....

At least on DMCTalk I can choose to ignore certain topics and individuals instead of being forced to see it all on the DML.

[stevedmc]

Bill pretty much gets criticism no matter what he does. All he did was install some parts that he bough from a couple of vendors.

Did anyone get a kick out of someone accusing Bill of ruining the DML? I though this was pretty amusing because the DML was pretty much non existent until Bill went back to it. Before Bill started preaching on the DML it was pretty common for weeks to go by without a single email being distributed.

[sean]

Did anyone get a kick out of someone accusing Bill of ruining the DML? I though this was pretty amusing because the DML was pretty much non existent until Bill went back to it. Before Bill started preaching on the DML it was pretty common for weeks to go by without a single email being distributed.

You're right, you should petition the moderators to change the name from DML to RML since he is the savior and all :D. Get a poll going over there to get him to be moderator.

[Dangermouse]

Two of my favorite baiting lines from Bill over there yesterday were:

Why are you even mentioning carburetion? This discussion is about
front end lower suspension. Please keep the discussion on topic.

Please limit this discussion to the front end lower suspension only. Fuel delivery has absolutely nothing to with it.

oh, the irony......

[Ron]

...change the name from DML to RML.
Somehow BML seems to be more fitting...

[tyb323]

I honestly don't understand why everyone is attacking him. I know he was a bit of a nuisance over here but honestly after reading all that stuff over there, it looks like he's being attacked for buying parts from a vendor...

[sean]

I honestly don't understand why everyone is attacking him. I know he was a bit of a nuisance over here but honestly after reading all that stuff over there, it looks like he's being attacked for buying parts from a vendor...


Eye of the beholder I suppose. IMO, it starts with someone asking a question about something he has done then he immediately goes on the defense and rather than answer a question he deflects and says things like "Billy bob rode in it at DCS and loved it" or "Nonsense, it was crap to begin with and now its better". Then when folks push on asking "why wont you address my question" he further deflects and cries that he is being attacked. Then he follows up with "This is the greatest mod since white bread went toast" and when someone asks about it he cries about being attacked and refuses to respond directly to any question, and the cycle continues. But of course its everyone else's fault, not Bill. I mean we were all so bad to him here so he left and now the BML is being mean to him so I suppose DMCHelp is next? When will people stop persecuting innocent Ol' Bill?

[Soundkillr]

Eye of the beholder I suppose. IMO, it starts with someone asking a question about something he has done then he immediately goes on the defense and rather than answer a question he deflects and says things like "Billy bob rode in it at DCS and loved it" or "Nonsense, it was crap to begin with and now its better". Then when folks push on asking "why wont you address my question" he further deflects and cries that he is being attacked. Then he follows up with "This is the greatest mod since white bread went toast" and when someone asks about it he cries about being attacked and refuses to respond directly to any question, and the cycle continues. But of course its everyone else's fault, not Bill. I mean we were all so bad to him here so he left and now the BML is being mean to him so I suppose DMCHelp is next? When will people stop persecuting innocent Ol' Bill?

That sir, is spot on!

[AdmiralSenn]

I am so happy that I don't get instant emails from the DML any more. As it is I've been trying to ignore the absurdly long DML digests that keep popping up in my inbox (one of the downsides to an email list is that it's a LOT harder to "just ignore" a flame war).

I just went back and re-read it. It seems like everything was going fine (gasp, a civil discussion!) until Kayo asked about modifications and the implications for insurance coverage, which Bill took as a personal attack. (Anyone else read it this way?) From there it degenerated. Bill also seems to be claiming that members were decrying his upgrades as unnecessary and that the OEM system was fine, but most of the posts I saw say that they agree the suspension needs upgrading and thought it was overall a good idea.

Having seen yet another honest discussion of a potential upgrade (which I actually might try out myself one day) turn into a bunch of children screaming at each other, I'm unsubscribing from the DML if it doesn't calm down in a few more days. This is ridiculous.

As an aside, it might help him if he would understand that by throwing out a modification he's done, he's inviting honest criticism. Making a topic about it and then getting angry (or feigning it, whichever) when people ask questions is asinine. The constant belittling of people who disagree with him doesn't help either. Making well over a dozen threads in the course of a week, most of which are passive-aggressive shots at anything anyone's said to question him, is ridiculous - if I were moderating it I'd consider that a spam attempt and act accordingly. People claim that Bill is ruining the DML and his friends point to the increased traffic to defend it, as if a massive pissing contest about NOTHING OF IMPORT is a sign of life on a mailing list like that. I hope it just drives the remaining diehards here and we can finally have some peace and quiet.

[stevedmc]

his friends point to the increased traffic to defend it,

I'm not sure Bill still considers me a friend. He won't accept my friend request on Facebook and he stopped responding to my private emails after I commented on how he told me I didn't need to add Ed's brackets to my Henninger LCAs. He immediatly sent me an email after my comment saying I should ban him from the Gulf Coast Delorean club. I thought he was joking but he hasn't responded to any of my emails since then.

[tyb323]

He won't accept my friend request on Facebook

He doesn't accept anyone's.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

Making well over a dozen threads in the course of a week, most of which are passive-aggressive shots at anything anyone's said to question him, is ridiculous - if I were moderating it I'd consider that a spam attempt and act accordingly. People claim that Bill is ruining the DML and his friends point to the increased traffic to defend it, as if a massive pissing contest about NOTHING OF IMPORT is a sign of life on a mailing list like that. I hope it just drives the remaining diehards here and we can finally have some peace and quiet.

The moderator, Mike, admitted he didn't know how to completely control content, when he addressed the group...so anyone can get away with anything right now on the DML.

I'm glad that my Inbox is no longer full of "parrot" emails, because that is what it ended up being reduced to by last night. As already mentioned, it's Bill's way of communicating that is frustrating and annoying. His redundant "self-plugging" on his ideas is tiresome.

[DMCVegas]

That sir, is spot on!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vxZaqaJBOKc/TbrcyuYN04I/AAAAAAAAAaQ/MklorVs-jwQ/s1600/zoolander-mugatu-crazy-pills.jpg

I said the almost the exact same thing before on the .com site!

Purists, no matter in what form will always be there. And of course they'll change over the years. Right now it's alternative drivetrains, and over all the years it's gone from things like changing the radio, to upholstery, and numerous other things. Certain people like these probably won't ever change, and there is nothing that you can do about that. But something to consider is this: Just as people who have switched over to Carburetors don't all want to be lumped in with Bill, so do people who have kept stock systems not want to be lumped in with purists. You like pets? Great. Does that mean that just because you're an animal lover you have to join PETA? Not at all!

This whole division of DeLorean owners came about because of Bill. Whenever someone simply asked a question, not even an actual challenge to bait him into an argument, but just a question that Bill did not like, Bill would then in turn label that person and draw them into a fight. On the opposite side of the topic, Bill then told everyone even remotely interested in his messages that they were automatically on his side and he was fighting for them. This was not true at all! But this is exactly how Bill played everyone against each other. It doesn't matter if you were for or against Carbs, K-Jet, EFI, or tying a damn donkey to the front of your car to pull it; Bill trolled EVERYONE here.

Let's clear up some facts:
No one is stopping nor trying to stop anyone from installing a Carburetor on a DeLorean.
If installing a carb is what it takes to get the car up and running permanently or temporarily (since some of us do rely upon our cars as daily drivers), or if it's just your preferred thing, please do it.
Carbureting a DeLorean is a customization mod just like any other.
No one cares how you customize your car. We support you in wanting to make mods, and while I might not do the same thing for whatever reason, that doesn't mean I, nor anyone else here is going to go out of our way to keep you from doing it.




No one was attacking Carburetors.

Many owners who were complaining about K-Jetronic were doing so because they had a bad experience. As such those more knowlegable about K-Jet offered to answer questions and help them repair what they had if it was more economical to do so rather than an entire Fuel Delivery System Retrofit.
K-Jetronic is what got attacked. Many people had negative opinions and misconceptions. Factual information was offered up as both data and troubleshooting. But anyone who did such things was immediately labled as purists and accused of opposing Carburetion for the sake of being non-stock. No one was doing any such thing.
Incorrect information was being offered up on how to tune carburetors. Once factual information was offered on how to tune a Carb properly, the information was completely ignored and labeled as "anit-carb". Even though it was actually useful information, and in fact information that was far more useful and factual than what Bill was recommending.




There is no proper documentation on retrofitting a carb.

First was my question to Bill of why he wasn't compiling and publishing this information (Publishing in the Desktop Sense as in what we do with sticky threads). Bill cannot be around forever. It's nice if he drives to your house, but what if he gets killed en route?
Without an independent, redundant backup of Carb Conversion information, we also have no way to update said method as newer information supersedes older data.
Since Bill is now refusing to answer anyone's e-mails, the only source of information has now been lost.
No one likes D-1's method of trying to keep information and parts available for only a few dog-loyal customers, and many have been passionately vocal about not wanting DMCH to ever do the same. So why on earth would anyone fight for Bill's desire to do the same thing with the Carb Conversion information?




Bill pretty much gets criticism no matter what he does.

No, that's a lie. What Bill actually does is he claims criticism anytime someone asks him as a question that he perceives as a threat. That's his "Race Card" he constantly throws into play. Bill will never say, "I don't know" or anything similar that could possibly expose either a lack of knowledge, or possession of incorrect information. He'll simply go on the attack and accuse you of criticizing him. But, if someone else beats him to that and answers the question before he can respond back, he'll just ride their coattails and unnecessarily attempt to validate said statement as if he knew it all along, like if Bill doesn't somehow *approve* the information, it's not yet true.

Best of all is the fact that Bill like most people plays "checkers" strategy with people, and will give one rebuttal at a time, and will keep it shifting the conversation into an eventual infinate loop. However, play "chess" with him and counter him on several points at once and prevent him from any out, and he'll then play the "Martyr Card" about how he is so selfless in his offline actions. He does this to draw in his drafted supporters into the argument so they can take the heat while he can change subjects.

Rise, repeat...



I just unsubscribed from the DML. I emailed Mike the moderator my two cents (nicely) after I got his attention, no response, and then a few more emails about Bill and someone discussing legal issues on LCA brackets,frame, etc. again...

It sucks that I had to cut ties with the DML because of a few individuals and, IMO, redundant and unconstructive junk conversation, that has lost alot of my time and patience....

Why let Bill bully you? I had serious reservations about coming back to DMCTalk because of him. But I'm glad I changed my mind. You shouldn't let anyone control your life like that. Fuck 'em.

I don't care how Bill is in person versus on the internet. It's been my experience even with a identifying username that people still feel a great deal of anonymity simply because they're alone when typing and corresponding. THAT is the real person. In public interactions it's just learned, knee-jerk social protocols that people can't help but go exercise since they've been doing them for so long. Bill may be raised to have been soft-spoken and kind in public, but I'm sure that if you interact with him face to face and bring up these same topics he's a tempest in a teapot with the argument raging inside. Likewise the same for most people that if he did say something, they'd just back down and drop the issue rather than pursue it because of the exact same reasons. And it is also by those same reasons of "Courageous Anonymity" that people are then willing to challenge Bill's words, or those of any others.

[stevedmc]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vxZaqaJBOKc/TbrcyuYN04I/AAAAAAAAAaQ/MklorVs-jwQ/s1600/zoolander-mugatu-crazy-pills.jpg

Me too.

[SamHill]

Its inaccurate to say no one was attacking carbs. "Step backwards" was tossed around often. Also a carbed car was offered for sale last year and a poster said that it was worth little to nothing. Again, in this thread, a poster said that the cars were unsaleable. Therefore, its more accurate to say "not everyone was attacking carbs."

[stevedmc]

Its inaccurate to say no one was attacking carbs. "Step backwards" was tossed around often. Also a carbed car was offered for sale last year and a poster said that it was worth little to nothing. Again, in this thread, a poster said that the cars were unsaleable. Therefore, its more accurate to say "not everyone was attacking carbs."

A carburetor Delorean is more saleable than a non-running Delorean. For what its worth though, I've come to accept that my car is unsaleable for the simple fact that it is my car and I'll do any stinking thing with it I want to. My car is only unsaleable because I don't want to sell it.

[opethmike]

A carburetor Delorean is more saleable than a non-running Delorean. For what its worth though, I've come to accept that my car is unsaleable for the simple fact that it is my car and I'll do any stinking thing with it I want to. My car is only unsaleable because I don't want to sell it.

+1

[Ron]

...
You shouldn't let anyone control your life like that. Fuck 'em.
...
+1

[DMCVegas]

Its inaccurate to say no one was attacking carbs. "Step backwards" was tossed around often.

When carbs were touted as an *improvement* over K-Jetronic, that is precisely when that statement came into play. Especially when misinformation was used to try and back that statement.

The other statement about possible saleability came into play when it was pointed out that there was no definitive documentation for the entire conversion process. There are plenty of aftermarket/shade tree modifications done to the DeLorean over the years that are now accepted within the community, and in many cases actually expected. The key of course is that they have all been documented. That lack of documentation was discussed as a possible detractor to a carbureted DeLorean if there was no solid documentation to back it up and just left a potential buyer with even more questions than most of the community would be able to answer. That's where all of that came from.



A carburetor Delorean is more saleable than a non-running Delorean. For what its worth though, I've come to accept that my car is unsaleable for the simple fact that it is my car and I'll do any stinking thing with it I want to. My car is only unsaleable because I don't want to sell it.

In total agreement with you and everything you just said there! :thumbup2:

[SamHill]

When carbs were touted as an *improvement* over K-Jetronic, that is precisely when that statement came into play. Especially when misinformation was used to try and back that statement.

Then since no one is attacking carbs, I can reasonably assume that you don't infer that it's a downgrade either.



The other statement about possible saleability came into play when it was pointed out that there was no definitive documentation for the entire conversion process. There are plenty of aftermarket/shade tree modifications done to the DeLorean over the years that are now accepted within the community, and in many cases actually expected. The key of course is that they have all been documented. That lack of documentation was discussed as a possible detractor to a carbureted DeLorean if there was no solid documentation to back it up and just left a potential buyer with even more questions than most of the community would be able to answer. That's where all of that came from.


Uh, no it wasn't. I believe that the car that was listed for sale that was worth "nothing" or "little" wasn't even a Bill R. conversion. Who knows what documentation that guy had. I know that the rest of the car looked good, though.

The comment made in this thread about saleability did NOT concern documentation either, it was a general statement. See post #20.

As far as a lack of documentation, if you had weeded out the pigfighting, there was a lot of information in the "ask Bill anything" .com carb thread. The lion's share of the information and pictures were there. The problem is that I, and probably a lot of other people, thought .com would be up for many years to come. Had I known that it would crash and burn, there are a lot of things I would have screen captured/saved to thumb drive/printed out.

[stevedmc]

That lack of documentation was discussed as a possible detractor to a carbureted DeLorean if there was no solid documentation to back it up and just left a potential buyer with even more questions than most of the community would be able to answer.

You are kidding, right? The old forum had tons of documentation on putting Motorcraft 2100 carburetors on PRV engines. The new forum has plenty of useful information as well. You can even look at Bill's facebook page and see plenty of public information on his modifications.

I rebuilt my Motorcraft 2100 carburetor once using documentation that was easily found on the internet. If you think there isn't any documentation on there on these little carbs you obviously have never heard of a website called Google.

I've provided phone support to several people that just wanted someone to walk them through things. Guess what, there are at least a dozen other people out there that have the same type of setup as I do. I have a feeling that if Bill gets hit by a freight train tomorrow, any one of us will be able to provide support. Shoot, have you noticed on Bill's carburetor thread that myself and Farrar have been the ones giving out information and not Bill? Bill is standardizing his kits for a reason, it makes it easy for the comunity to support itself without him.

When I first converted to carburetion Bill told me one thing on the phone that I will never forget. "Steve, the reason I am doing this for you is so you will be able to survive on your own". In essence what he was saying is every Delorean vendor could go out of business, he could die, and I would still be able to have reliable fuel delivery because I would be able to support myself.

[Farrar]

He won't accept my friend request on Facebook


He doesn't accept anyone's.

Bill is proving to us he doesn't need friends. :cry:

Farrar

[stevedmc]

Bill is proving to us he doesn't need friends. :cry:

I find it amusing how he thinks we should know whats on his Facebook page. Without him being a friend I don't get notifications when he updates his page.

[DCUK Martin]

He probably thinks he's been banned from Facebook.

[stevedmc]

He probably thinks he's been banned from Facebook.

I doubt it since he has been posting to Facebook.

[sean]

I doubt it since he has been posting to Facebook.

Clearly someone hacked his account and is doing that.

[stevedmc]

Clearly someone hacked his account and is doing that.

Maybe he thinks he is banning us by not accepting our friend requests.

[sean]

Maybe he thinks he is banning us by not accepting our friend requests.

Steve's in "Bill timeout".

:hihi2:

[stevedmc]

Bill is proving to us he doesn't need friends. :cry:

Farrar

This song makes me think about Bill and Facebook.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liq_wYFkMoU

[Ron]

Shoot, have you noticed on Bill's carburetor thread that myself and Farrar have been the ones giving out information and not Bill?I wouldn't say that....




Maybe he thinks he is banning us by not accepting our friend requests.
:hysterical:

steve's in "bill timeout".

:hihi2:
:hysterical:

Just wait until he comes off the mount...

[stevedmc]

Steve's in "Bill timeout".

:hihi2:

He started emailing me back. I guess the timeout is over.

[Soundkillr]

He started emailing me back. I guess the timeout is over.

Sounds like he is back on his meds....

[DMCVegas]

Seeing as how his activity has suddenly dropped off on the DML, he probably wore out his welcome.

[stevedmc]

Seeing as how his activity has suddenly dropped off on the DML, he probably wore out his welcome.

Or it could just mean he has a life and is busy doing other things right now.

[sean]

Or it could just mean he has a life and is busy doing other things right now.

Wait, bill has a life?

[SamHill]

You guys want this thread to die like you want Ol' Yeller to die. YOU LOVE IT.

[Farrar]

Wait, bill has a life?

I think Bill's life involves many things, but mostly keeping a fleet of ancient vehicles on the road. I'm still amazed at how he manages to do all of that, plus other things like sleep, eat, and travel... Maybe he should teach a time-management course!

Farrar

[stevedmc]

I think Bill's life involves many things, but mostly keeping a fleet of ancient vehicles on the road. I'm still amazed at how he manages to do all of that, plus other things like sleep, eat, and travel... Maybe he should teach a time-management course!

Farrar

I keep wondering how the man manages to do all of this stuff and have a job. Maybe he doesn't work.

[sean]

Maybe he doesn't work.


I thought "Thorn in the purist's side" was his job. :D

[Dangermouse]

I thought "Thorn in the purist's side" was his job. :D

Hobby

[opethmike]

Last I was aware, Bill does not have a job.

[stevedmc]

Last I was aware, Bill does not have a job.

I need to start doing what he does. I wonder how he gets money.

[dvonk]

whatever it is, sign me up. i cant even afford one DeLorean... :lol:

[Farrar]

I need to start doing what he does. I wonder how he gets money.

Last I heard he was working on and operating his church's activity buses. Even though it's his church I imagine they must provide him some sort of honorarium; my church always tossed a few bucks my way whenever I played trumpet for special services. Still, it can't be easy and I imagine he is still looking for work.

Farrar

[protodelorean]

Judging from recent activity, if they ban Bill from the DML, there will be NOTHING on there. So they have their choice of annoying content (with Bill) or NO content at all (without Bill).

R.I.P. DML

[tyb323]

Judging from recent activity, if they ban Bill from the DML, there will be NOTHING on there. So they have their choice of annoying content (with Bill) or NO content at all (without Bill).

R.I.P. DML

Made this in a few minutes using my very rudimentary photoshop skills

http://i44.tinypic.com/bguw0j.jpg

At least he's giving it a funeral instead of it being dead on its own

[Ron]

:rofl:

[stevedmc]

Judging from recent activity, if they ban Bill from the DML, there will be NOTHING on there. So they have their choice of annoying content (with Bill) or NO content at all (without Bill).

R.I.P. DML

Bill must be having the time of his life on the DML. When you think about it, it is much easier for someone to skip over the posts he used to make on DMCTalk. But email is a little different.

When he sends out an email to the DML everyone sees it whether they like it or not (unless they click delete with their eyes closed). He gets more exposure on the DML and possibly gets to tick more people off.

[Farrar]

When he sends out an email to the DML everyone sees it whether they like it or not (unless they click delete with their eyes closed).

Actually, in most e-mail programs you can set up a filter to automatically trash an e-mail from a specific sender. I do this all the time at work with spammers who don't remove me from their lists despite my requests.

On the other hand, if someone replies to Bill... ;)

Farrar

[Ron]

On the other hand, if someone replies to Bill...
Farrar...he won't answer.

[sean]

...he won't answer.

Zing!


also true :D

[stevedmc]

...he won't answer.

He answers my emails. According to Bill we are friends in real life but not friends on facebook.

[tyb323]

...he won't answer.

He's answering my emails

[Farrar]

Bill and I continue to communicate, also through e-mail and occasionally on the telephone.

Farrar

[stevedmc]

The other night I had a weird dream and Bill was in it. I thought I might share it with everyone.

I dreamed several of us were at DCS 2012. To my surprise there was a water balloon throwing booth and Bill was the poor victim being soaked by water balloons. I eagerly stepped up to the booth and bought a balloon. I filled it with water, threw it at Bill, and to my surprise it didn’t pop. I retrieved it and threw it back at him several times. To my amazement I never could get the balloon to pop. He just sat there and laughed at my pathetic attempts to soak him with water.

[sean]

Hmm, wet dreams about Bill ya say?

[stevedmc]

Hmm, wet dreams about Bill ya say?

Nope. I couldn't get the balloon to pop.

[sean]

Nope. I couldn't get the balloon to pop.

Ok, so an impotent dream about bill. Maybe you should dream about some cialis. :D

[stevedmc]

Ok, so an impotent dream about bill. Maybe you should dream about some cialis. :D

Im scared.

[sean]

Im scared.

Im scared for ya!

[Dangermouse]

Stop It !!

on a related note, either the dml has gotten moderated again, or Bill is on vacation somewhere.

[Farrar]

The last time I talked to him, Bill was very busy getting #2508 back on the road, as well as getting all of his other vehicles inspected and re-plated before this Friday, which is the deadline set by the city after his neighbor claimed he was violating the city code by storing "abandoned or junk vehicles" on his property. I imagine his stress level is through the roof, but the man does work fast.

Farrar

[tyb323]

I hate douchebag nosey neighbors. Frankly if the guy next to me were doing that, I wouldn't have a problem unless it somehow encroached on my property

[stevedmc]

getting all of his other vehicles inspected and re-plated before this Friday, which is the deadline set by the city after his neighbor claimed he was violating the city code by storing "abandoned or junk vehicles" on his property.

:hysterical: Sorry but I couldn't help but laugh. Bill is going to kill me if he ever reads this.

[Farrar]

As far as I know, there's only one of his vehicles that is not in driveable condition. All of the other ones are in a deep sleep without plates to save money, so all he has to do is prove they are roadworthy. That is a big chink of money all at once, though -- I believe he has two Lincolns and an AMC to insure, plate, and have inspected.

His neighbor probably didn't know the situation, since Bill keeps his vehicles under covers when he's not using them (or taking pictures of them ;)).

Farrar

[Dangermouse]

As far as I know, there's only one of his vehicles that is not in driveable condition. All of the other ones are in a deep sleep without plates to save money, so all he has to do is prove they are roadworthy. That is a big chink of money all at once, though -- I believe he has two Lincolns and an AMC to insure, plate, and have inspected.

His neighbor probably didn't know the situation, since Bill keeps his vehicles under covers when he's not using them (or taking pictures of them ;)).

Farrar

I have the same neighbor. HOA letter about "receiving many complaints". From the same one guy, probably. :blahblah:

[Ron]

Ok, so an impotent dream about bill. Maybe you should dream about some cialis. :D
:hysterical:

[stevedmc]

I guess banned from DMCTalk needs to be added to the poll.

[Michael]

:lockdance:

[Mike C.]

I guess banned from DMCTalk needs to be added to the poll.

Meh. Time for us to all move on.