Interesting day with Steven at DMCH

[Spittybug]

I needed a pair of windshield wiper seals (plastic cones on bolt) so I went by DMCH to pick them up. Steven was there and we started talking. Before writing this, I asked him if anything he told me was "off limits" to share. The only thing he mentioned...I won't, but I think it's pretty good idea that many people will like. Enough said.

He took a look at my EFI'd car with its plexiglass engine cover and chopped louvers. We started talking about everything from the electric car to the supercharger to the new bits and pieces that are coming down the pike. I was very impressed with the electric car he showed me. I think that it will do a lot to bring more attention to our cars. He said that converting a stock D to electric would be on the order of $30 - $35K, a whole new car, ~$90K I think he said. Big pill to swallow, but he says they get ~70 miles to a charge and that will only get better with improve battery technology. Full charge using 240V would be ~2 hours, considerably longer with 110V. That seems awful quick to me, but I'm no expert. Right now the weight is coming in at +200 lbs, but with the lighter body tub and some upcoming enhancements to other components, he claims they will get it under today's weight.

The supercharger is a nice looking kit. Pretty bolt on for them as far as I could tell. He says that since the cam work on stage II is pretty mild, this isn't affected by it.

Binnacles, fascias and fuel pump units have all been pre-announced and I saw all three. The fuel pump assembly is nice and compact and certainly ought to solve some sender problems as well as making for a nice clean installation. He said he should be able to offer it in 2 pressures; one for K-jet (70 psi) and a lower ~43 psi version for us EFI guys, removing the need for pressure regulators. Nice. I think he said $399.

The new fiberglass body tubs are nice. Much lighter and much stronger.

All in all, it was a very interesting discussion. Stephen has lots of ideas and moving them all forward while paying for it from car and part sales to a relatively small customer base is the business challenge. The fact that they are no longer building "new cars" and aren't interested in selling engines anymore is quite telling. The focus is definitely on upgrades and the electric version. They continue to up their resale car prices by 1 to $2,000 per year he says. Watch for some "Super Deloreans" once more of the new parts are available and the electric car is launched. These $$ cars should be limited in number and have all the bells and whistles as alternatives to electric. What the internal combustion Delorean should have been.....

[Marty]

I was very impressed with the electric car he showed me. I think that it will do a lot to bring more attention to our cars.

Totally agree. I think the brand needs to be in the spotlight to secure future values. It's an exciting time to own a D.

[TheDutchTexan]

They continue to up their resale car prices by 1 to $2,000 per year he says.

This confirms them wanting to keep the small guy out. Awful big inflation number there.

[deloreanz]

I was there at the 2011 open house and I'll agree the all-in-one fuel unit is pretty slick. I would probably go with that if and when I need to replace my pump and boot.

[John U]

Did he say that stage II is required for the supercharger? or would it be a bolt on for the stock PRV?

[timothymoore]

This confirms them wanting to keep the small guy out. Awful big inflation number there.

thats why you dont buy a "new build" from them but a nice used one from a private owner

why spend near 40k for one of there pre owned or 60k for a new build when you can go and get a real nice one for 25k or less.

[Spittybug]

Did he say that stage II is required for the supercharger? or would it be a bolt on for the stock PRV?

I don't know that it is "required", but any performance specs given are indeed assumed to be on top of the stage II mods. Sorry, I didn't ask him that question point blank, I guess I should have.

[deloreanz]

I don't know that it is "required", but any performance specs given are indeed assumed to be on top of the stage II mods. Sorry, I didn't ask him that question point blank, I guess I should have.

My impression has always been that each stage builds on the last, so to get Stage III you'd need the complete package. The Stage III setup was pretty impressive with the custom piping and the fact that the car was run pretty hard the whole weekend without any apparent problems.

[thirdmanj]

My impression has always been that each stage builds on the last, so to get Stage III you'd need the complete package. The Stage III setup was pretty impressive with the custom piping and the fact that the car was run pretty hard the whole weekend without any apparent problems.

I spoke with Toby from DMCNW the other day and he gave me a strait answer to take all the guess work out of it. The Stage III is stepped up on the Stage II, mod is close to just over 9k for parts/labor. I believe he said it would be in the 12-13k range to go from stock to Stage III. I could be off on the last figures, but I'm in the ball park.

[louielouie2000]

I spoke with Toby from DMCNW the other day and he gave me a strait answer to take all the guess work out of it. The Stage III is stepped up on the Stage II, mod is close to just over 9k for parts/labor. I believe he said it would be in the 12-13k range to go from stock to Stage III. I could be off on the last figures, but I'm in the ball park.

Interesting. That equals about $100 per hp gained.

[John U]

I spoke with Toby from DMCNW the other day and he gave me a strait answer to take all the guess work out of it. The Stage III is stepped up on the Stage II, mod is close to just over 9k for parts/labor. I believe he said it would be in the 12-13k range to go from stock to Stage III. I could be off on the last figures, but I'm in the ball park.

wow....that's almost what I paid for my whole car!....I think I will stick with the stock engine and buy a Ferrari with more HP! :biggrin:

[DCUK Martin]

He said he should be able to offer it in 2 pressures; one for K-jet (70 psi) and a lower ~43 psi version for us EFI guys, removing the need for pressure regulators.

This doesn't make sense.

Both K-Jet and EFI require a pressure regulator ( I have heard of peculiar speed controlled pumps but let's not go there!). In the case of EFI, it not only maintains pressure regardless of flow, but it varies pressure in direct proportion to manifold air pressure.

If it can supply K-Jet with 5 bar, it'll easily supply EFI at 3.5 bar.

In more general terms, I'd like to know how they're drawing fuel from the tank centre... (or if it incorporates a buffer tank - now THAT I'd pay for).

[Delorean Industries]

This doesn't make sense.

Both K-Jet and EFI require a pressure regulator ( I have heard of peculiar speed controlled pumps but let's not go there!). In the case of EFI, it not only maintains pressure regardless of flow, but it varies pressure in direct proportion to manifold air pressure.

If it can supply K-Jet with 5 bar, it'll easily supply EFI at 3.5 bar.

In more general terms, I'd like to know how they're drawing fuel from the tank centre... (or if it incorporates a buffer tank - now THAT I'd pay for).

I was a bit confused by this as well. If it will run K jet it will run EFI. The reg on an our EFI systems dump more into the return line that is all.

[Spittybug]

Stephen's comments were that by regulating the stock pressure down to EFI pressure, the pump was under more stress. By having two different pumps available, each would be working in its "comfort zone" and not need to be regulated.

Hey, just repeating what he told me when he showed me the pump. I don't know that he actually plans to make such available or was just brainstorming. I also am not sufficiently familiar with pump mechanisms to know if this is advantageous or not.

[DCUK Martin]

Stephen's comments were that by regulating the stock pressure down to EFI pressure, the pump was under more stress. By having two different pumps available, each would be working in its "comfort zone" and not need to be regulated.

No it's the other way around, the lower the pressure, the lower the required power.

Anyway, the 957/909 pump used on the DeLorean was fitted for donkeys years in plenty of EFI cars.

[DMCH James]

Far more pre-owned DeLoreans are sold OUTSIDE DeLorean Motor Company than from within the company. We're putting, on average, in the $25K range in each of our pre-owned cars here in Houston. Factor in the cost of the car to start with (an 18K mile car was dropped off a couple weeks ago that we paid $9.5K for including shipping from CA) and voila, you get in the mid/upper $30K range. That's the way the numbers work.

- Major service
- Hose kit with radiator, flush
- Engine mounts
- Fuel tank service
- Fuel accumulator
- Relay update kit, fusebox, service grounds
- Axle boots
- Rebuild all for calipers, replace flexible hoses, flush
- Replace rotors (4) and pads
- Adjust parking brake
- Door seal kit, support buffers
- six struts
- Seat covers
- headliners
- carpet kit
- dash
- recovered binnacle
- glovebox lid
- kneepad
- console recover kit
- front and rear fascias
- rock screen
- window motors
- drop glass
- side mirror glass
- rear view mirror
- windshield
- a-pillar trims
- steering column bushing
- rebuild mode switch
- a/c service
- front and rear speakers
- AM/FM/CD/MP3 stereo with DIN plate
- power antenna
- window switches
- wiper blades
- fuel sender
- angle drive, lower cable , dust shield
- trip reset shaft
- Interstate battery
- idler pulley bearings
- muffler heatshield
- air filter duct/temp sensor duct
- engine compartment light switch/fixture
- clutch master/slave/ss line/flush
- gas cap
- front spoiler
- three pedal pads
- refinish windshield reveals
- Light and lens kit
- trailing arm bolts
- deflector plate retaining strips
- adjust handbrake
- Michelin Pilot Exalto tires
- refinished wheels
- lug nuts, wheel caps
- rack boots, deep lube rack
- label kit
- hand blend stainless


This confirms them wanting to keep the small guy out. Awful big inflation number there.

It's not about keeping the "small guy" out, it's about making the cars really nice, for those who don't want a project. I think SW was exaggerating a bit on the amount of the annual increase, but as far as the price increases, the cost of business is going up. Labor, health insurance/benefits, fuel, shipping, utilities - not to mention the new parts development. We'll be "in" to windshields for well into five figures - the "cost" of that money is something often overlooked. We won't get it all back until we've sold majority of them. We could *try* to get it back sooner in the form of higher retail prices, but that's not good for sales.


thats why you dont buy a "new build" from them but a nice used one from a private owner

why spend near 40k for one of there pre owned or 60k for a new build when you can go and get a real nice one for 25k or less.

No offense, but I think our definition of "real nice" and yours are probably different. One owner may be happy living with a slightly fogged exterior mirror. I'd rather replace it and improve the overall appearance of the car. Another owner might be willing to live with faded lenses or chipped paint on the wheels. If we can make the car look nicer, we will. Beat up lugnuts and faded wheelcaps make newly refinished wheels look not as nice. And the list goes on and on.

James

[stevedmc]

No offense, but I think our definition of "real nice" and yours are probably different.

No offense, but I think our definition of "New-Build" and yours are probably different.

[DSNW Toby]

The Stage III setup was pretty impressive with the custom piping and the fact that the car was run pretty hard the whole weekend without any apparent problems.

Don't tell Stephen this, but one of my personal goals at the open house event was to get serious seat time in the Stage III car and do my best to break it. I have a couple of guys in the Northwest who are serious about stepping up to the Stage III, and I need to be able to look them in the eye and tell them that it is a good setup. Ed Uding and I literally beat the crap out of the 5-speed car all day long at the track. It was above 90 degrees all day. I tickled redline many times. I also abused the highways and biways around Houston before and after the track event in that car, as well as an automatic car that has the Stage III installed. These cars did not complain even once. I was (and am) very impressed. Stage III goes like a scalded cat (although no animals were harmed!) and the only whining came from the supercharger as it was spooling up. :thumbup2:

[Spittybug]

:meatballs:

Watching this thread takes more than eating popcorn.....meatballs it is.

A harmless post about a good conversation with Stephen has turned into yet another fight with DMCH by some. That was never my intent for posting in the first place. I do not wish to be painted with the same brush as those that want to find fault in everything they do or say.

I went out of my way to ask Stephen if he didn't want me to repeat anything we talked about, and I honored his sole request. If I have somehow misunderstood something he told me and recounted it wrong, I hope James or he would PM and correct me. I thought everything I spoke of was quite neutral in nature and really the only "opinion" I voiced was that I found the no-more-new-builds to be "quite telling". This was immediately followed up with a rationalization that they are focusing limited resources on the two new platforms, supercharged and electric.

If my original post is being used as fuel for an eon-old feud, my apologies for trying to report on the various neat things going on at DMCH for all of those that don't have the ability to walk in and see for themselves.

[opethmike]

Stage III goes like a scalded cat (although no animals were harmed!) and the only whining came from the supercharger as it was spooling up. :thumbup2:

Best guess as to 0 - 60 time?

[thirdmanj]

:meatballs:

Watching this thread takes more than eating popcorn.....meatballs it is.

A harmless post about a good conversation with Stephen has turned into yet another fight with DMCH by some. That was never my intent for posting in the first place. I do not wish to be painted with the same brush as those that want to find fault in everything they do or say.

I went out of my way to ask Stephen if he didn't want me to repeat anything we talked about, and I honored his sole request. If I have somehow misunderstood something he told me and recounted it wrong, I hope James or he would PM and correct me. I thought everything I spoke of was quite neutral in nature and really the only "opinion" I voiced was that I found the no-more-new-builds to be "quite telling". This was immediately followed up with a rationalizaton that they are focusing limited resources on the two new platforms, supercharged and electric.

If my original post is being used as fuel for an eon-old feud, my apologies for trying to report on the various neat things going on at DMCH for all of those that don't have the ability to walk in and see for themselves.

Yeah, what he said. I mean seriously I think by now we who frequent this forum all "get it" some like em some don't.. Blah blah blah.... There is enough material bouncing around in this forum that for anyone who isn't enlightened as to others issues with DMCH or another vendor for that matter, they could get a general idea relatively quickly. Why does it seem like every time DMCH is mentioned it turns into a fuckin shit slinging contest.

On a side note, I wanted to say that I'm pleased to see DMCH James justifying and calmly explaining the reason things are the way they are and not acting like an infant, in spite of all the shit hurled in his general direction. I'm not a "DMCH apologist" or anything, and I'm not even close to fulling knowing the workings that company, but I respect the man in his position shooting back, and not taking it like a bitch.

[Michael]

Don't tell Stephen this, but one of my personal goals at the open house event was to get serious seat time in the Stage III car and do my best to break it. I have a couple of guys in the Northwest who are serious about stepping up to the Stage III, and I need to be able to look them in the eye and tell them that it is a good setup. Ed Uding and I literally beat the crap out of the 5-speed car all day long at the track. It was above 90 degrees all day. I tickled redline many times. I also abused the highways and biways around Houston before and after the track event in that car, as well as an automatic car that has the Stage III installed. These cars did not complain even once. I was (and am) very impressed. Stage III goes like a scalded cat (although no animals were harmed!) and the only whining came from the supercharger as it was spooling up. :thumbup2:
So what were your impressions of the auto version?

[louielouie2000]

So what were your impressions of the auto version?

This is what I'm curious about as well. I've driven quite a few auto DeLoreans, and I just can't fathom how a supercharged auto DeLo would perform. Most notably, I'm thinking about the tendency for auto DeLoreans to fight downshifting... but when they do, it's sudden and borderline jarring (compared to modern cars). I'm imagining without some tweaking, this could be almost violent in an automatic supercharged DeLorean.

[Michael]

This is what I'm curious about as well. I've driven quite a few auto DeLoreans, and I just can't fathom how a supercharged auto DeLo would perform. Most notably, I'm thinking about the tendency for auto DeLoreans to fight downshifting... but when they do, it's sudden and borderline jarring (compared to modern cars). I'm imagining without some tweaking, this could be almost violent in an automatic supercharged DeLorean.

You know when I first got my car, it had a very pronounced downshift. It was noticeably jerky from 3rd to second. After driving it for a few thousand miles, that trait all but vanished. I do have the digital shift computer and also remember my car was remanufactured in 2006, and had only been driven 1,700 miles in 3 years until I got it. I think it just needed to be exercised.
I'm most curious about the acceleration form a dead stop. My car has no guts out of the hole. Once it gets to around 2 grand, the power comes in nicely, but I really would like more low end grunt.

[Ron]

I'm imagining without some tweaking, this could be almost violent in an automatic supercharged DeLorean.Works for me! :rock_on:

[DSNW Toby]

So what were your impressions of the auto version?

I was very pleasantly surprised to be honest with you. I didn't have any great expectations to begin with. This particular car has the upgraded digital shift computer, which makes all the difference. If you guys are still driving with the original shift computer, you need to seriously consider this.

Getting up to speed on the freeways, I held about 50 mph, and then stuffed it. The supercharger was already well spooled, so when the tranny kicked down into second, the car took off like somebody had kicked it in the butt. During normal driving the engine is very responsive, with excellent torque delivery. When flogging the car, it is actually a blast to drive the automatic. On upshift back into third, the engine kept pulling hard all the way through. That is the magic of a supercharger. The torque curve is fairly flat from around 2000 rpm* right on up to redline. It pulls steadily the whole time.

During another phase of the drive, I started out from a stop and kept my foot in it. I wanted to see how well the transmission was able to cope with all of the heavy lifting. I got nice, consistent and crisp shifts each time. I do love the sound of the supercharger spooling up ... the whine just gets more and more insistent.

* Keep in mind that the Stage III is built on a Stage II foundation. This means that the cams are set up for the mid-range and higher power that makes the Stage II such a hoot to drive. The supercharger adds quite a bit of grunt down around 1500 rpm, as compared to a "normal" Stage II. The combination of the cams, headwork, and supercharger really starts to come together when the cams get to their favorite sweet spot. If you are looking for big torque at very low rpm's, you should consider the electric car. I'm just sayin' ...

[DSNW Toby]

This is what I'm curious about as well. I've driven quite a few auto DeLoreans, and I just can't fathom how a supercharged auto DeLo would perform. Most notably, I'm thinking about the tendency for auto DeLoreans to fight downshifting... but when they do, it's sudden and borderline jarring (compared to modern cars). I'm imagining without some tweaking, this could be almost violent in an automatic supercharged DeLorean.

Louie - Remember that the harshness of the shifting is adjustable with the vacuum modulator. If you are getting a jarring shift either direction ... there's an app for that. Most cars that we see with automatics are sorely out of adjustment in regards to the transmission function. The throttle doesn't open all the way to the microswitch. The gap in the shift cable is too big or too tight. The vacuum modulator has been knocked loose or damaged due to contact with surrounding structure and is out of whack. The shift computer is original and is barely working, if at all. The list goes on.

Also, we must resist the urge to compare these cars with "modern cars" because ... well ... the comparison is really not fair or valid. I know that you know this already, but it is very easy to start down that slippery slope.

[DMCMW Dave]

I'm sorry I went home a day early - I'd have loved to drive the automatic as I have had some of the same skepticism about using it with a high-output engine.



--but when they do, it's sudden and borderline jarring (compared to modern cars). I'm imagining without some tweaking, this could be almost violent ....

Funny thing to me is that I recall modifying the automatic trans in a '67 Chevy I had to make it shift harder. It was considered sportier and better for the trans (it would run cooler if it wasn't slipping the clutches). Spongy shifts were for the Cadillac crowd.

[David T]

They used to sell "shift kits" to make the shifts firmer "back in the day". When you have soft shifts you are essentially in 2 gears at the same time and the clutches are slipping and wearing faster. The vacuum modulator in the auto Delorean is supposed to reduce the line pressure during shifts to allow the clutch packs to slip a little making the shift smoother. The shift computer and the hydraulics can't engage more than 1 gear at a time. The vacuum modualtor doesn't work when you supercharge or turbocharge the motor since the vacuum modulator uses VACUUM! With a properly matched torque converter a forced induction PRV should really make the Delorean perform. At least until you blow out the clutch packs in the transmission! IMHO they are barely adequate for the stock HP. Under the added stresses of more HP they can't be expected to live very long! When John Conway was a guest speaker at a DMA dinner (he helped develop the Island turbo kit) he said they did an automatic and was scared when they took it for a ride. He thought the transmission would end up on the ground! His comment was to not even do automatics for fear of the consequences.
David Teitelbaum

[DCUK Martin]

The vacuum modulator won't do anything when you're at full throttle either. I suspect that's the point. The shifts get softer the lighter you are on the throttle, unless I'm missing something.

I have a query that I'm genuinely curious to know the answer to: What's being done to the clutch to take account of all this extra horsepower?

Renault saw fit to uprate the pressure plate and friction plate springs in their 2.5 turbos (good for 250hp) and make an altogether different clutch kit for the 3 litre turbos which will push beyond 300hp and 350ft-lbs. (that clutch kit is mega $$$)

I've never heard of anyone trying an NA clutch in a 2.5 turbo but I know the 2.5 turbo clutch slips in a standard map 3 litre turbo.

I would love to see a comparison between some of the Renault-turbo-PRV powered cars and the new stage 3.