Torsion Bar Adjustment

[thirdmanj]

In a couple days I'll be taking 1258 to a very reputable shop to have the drivers side torsion bar adjusted. I've verified that it does need to be adjusted by popping out the strut and letting the door hang, it goes right to shut, no spring at all. I have the shop manual procedure and these guys have experience with torsion bars, but they've never done a door adjustment for a DeLorean. I just read about the guy who took his to DMCCA and his snapped. Is this common? I know that I am the second owner of 1258 and coincidently she used to live in CA and was serviced down there. I doubt she's been serviced incorrectly based on her history, and I doubt she's ever had her torsion bars adjusted. It's just the drivers side. Should I be concerned? Does anyone haven any advice for my mechanics? I'd love some lessons learned type advice.

[sean]

Did you read this?

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1287-Torsion-Bar-Adjustment-Instructions-and-Jig-Info

I wouldn't say snapping during an adjustment is common but all the bars that I am familiar with that have broken, about 5, have all been while the door was closed.

[Michael]

After 30 years most of these bars are not what they used to be. I do not believe the door hang method is viable anymore, maybe when they were new, but not now. I think the best way is after installing a new pair of shocks, determine the force required to shut the door, and watch how fast the door opens, and if it stresses the tub upon topping out. You will quickly know if it needs to be adjusted, and which way to go.

[thirdmanj]

Did you read this?

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1287-Torsion-Bar-Adjustment-Instructions-and-Jig-Info

I wouldn't say snapping during an adjustment is common but all the bars that I am familiar with that have broken, about 5, have all been while the door was closed.

Yes I've seen it. Thanks for linking it up though, I'll print the second out, I hadn't seen that one. I was looking for others experience stories and information perhaps not listed in those procedures. Thanks again very much though!

[Dangermouse]

these guys have experience with torsion bars, but they've never done a door adjustment for a DeLorean. ice.

This statement intrigues me. If they haven't worked on a D, where did they get their experience from? As far as I know, the D is the only car with such a torsion bar design. I know some cars had torsion bars in their suspension but they were much shorter and made of spring steel iirc.

Having said that, if they follow the link Sean showed you they shouldn't have any problems. More chance of breaking the glass than the bar, probably.

Hell, Sean even trained me to do it :)

[thirdmanj]

This statement intrigues me. If they haven't worked on a D, where did they get their experience from? As far as I know, the D is the only car with such a torsion bar design. I know some cars had torsion bars in their suspension but they were much shorter and made of spring steel iirc.

Having said that, if they follow the link Sean showed you they shouldn't have any problems. More chance of breaking the glass than the bar, probably.

Hell, Sean even trained me to do it :)

I was referring to torsion bars used in suspension.

[stevedmc]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but are there any owners close to you that can help? We have done torsion bar adjustments a couple of times in Louisiana and it really isn't that difficult. They key is having three people. One person to hold the door, and another two to do whatever gets done at the torsion bar bracket (I've always ended up being to stooge holding the door).

To me it makes more sense to buy a few tools and learn how to do the procedure yourself rather than pay a mechanic to learn how to work on your own car. My days of bringing #16510 to the mechanic are over. I'd much rather work on it myself.

[thirdmanj]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but are there any owners close to you that can help? We have done torsion bar adjustments a couple of times in Louisiana and it really isn't that difficult. They key is having three people. One person to hold the door, and another two to do whatever gets done at the torsion bar bracket (I've always ended up being to stooge holding the door).

To me it makes more sense to buy a few tools and learn how to do the procedure yourself rather than pay a mechanic to learn how to work on your own car. My days of bringing #16510 to the mechanic are over. I'd much rather work on it myself.


Nah man you don't sound like a jerk. I have the tools I do feel I could do it with an assistant. But there are no "active" owners within 100miles. The shop that does the work I don't feel comfortable with is very good and very reasonable. Besides, if they do fuck it up, they'll pay for the repairs.

I do wish there were some owners a little closer though. It was cool being super unique here for a while. Now it just kinda sucks. That's why I'm on the forum so much, it's the most exposure I can get to the DeLorean crowd. A while back we got three of us together at a cars and coffee in VA Beach, but that was a one time thing I think.

[David T]

Before attempting to adjust the torsion bar there are a few things that should be done:
Lubricate the hinges and the ball ends of the struts
Cut 2 strips of rubber about 1/2" X 2" and slip them in between the torsion bars and the rear hinges of each door
Use a door prop and prop the door from the DOOR SILL to the bottom of the door. DO NOT use a prop rod from the floor of the shop to the bottom of the door. If the car was to move the prop will fall away and the door will slam shut.
Use a strut lock on the strut as a safety back-up to hold the door open.
Be VERY CAREFUL with the rear plastic valence, they are not easily obtainable if broken.
Examine the head of the torsion bar and if you see a crack or the allen socket fits loosely do not attempt to adjust the bar. (Make sure it is fully inserted at all times)
The edges of the Tee roof that are exposed once you remove the rear valence are extremely sharp.
If the bolts that hold the anchor plate are stripped be prepared to fix them
Mark the position of the anchor plate with a pencil and adjust 1, 2 splines at the most at a time. Have several screwdrivers in case you need to pry and work the anchor plate loose off the splines. As you pry the anchor plate loose make sure you are not moving the torsion bar out of the socket in the front hinge.
Do not try this alone
Do not over-tension the torsion bar, the doors should not "bounce" .

As you can see from all of the warnings there are many ways this can end badly.
Experience with torsion bar suspension is not directly transferable to this. Your best option is to go to someone who has done it at least once.

The door hang test is reliable. The torsion bars do not "age" like struts and lose their power. If the door won't hang open at all you probably need at least 2 splines. The torsion bar was probably loosened because the strut that was used was too powerful.
David Teitelbaum

[Rich]

1. I just read about the guy who took his to DMCCA and his snapped. Is this common? 2. Should I be concerned? 3. Does anyone haven any advice for my mechanics? I'd love some lessons learned type advice.

The list from David T plus the written procedure in the link will cover you and your mechanics.

Answers to your shortened list above:
1. No, snapping the torsion bar during adjustment is not common. Our club ran a door-day in my driveway last weekend - adjusted or verified 6 doors. Successfully.
2. No, you should not be concerned - assuming your mechanic can follow the directions.
3. More advice - be sure they use a hex key attachment with at least a 2in./50mm or longer longer key section. The retainer bracket needs to move backward onto the exposed shaft of the key - while the key is bottomed into the torsion bar - to fully disengage from the bar splines, then slide back on in the new position, all without the wrench being unloaded.
Pay attention to the temperature note regarding adjustment in case it's cold in your area nowadays. That's one advantage of adjusting the doors in a (room temp.) shop.
3. +++ on David's no-bounce rule. Also ++ on David's note that the bars do not age.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The bar adjustment will not break the bar if you don't scrach it somehow. But since your putting more twist on it than you had, it may be the bar was ready to break anyway.

If you have new door shocks and the door won't stay up then you need to fix it. Hang test tells you nothing you don't know. You want to check your roof metal is not lifted and the shock mount studs are not bent.

[thirdmanj]

Thanks again guys! David, as usual your write ups are simple and detailed! Many thanks. Bit, I'll get that old RPM relay on the way to you today!

[LEVY]

.

Everything David wrote bellow is good advice but, make sure you pay special attention to the line in bold bellow!



Before attempting to adjust the torsion bar there are a few things that should be done:
Lubricate the hinges and the ball ends of the struts
Cut 2 strips of rubber about 1/2" X 2" and slip them in between the torsion bars and the rear hinges of each door
Use a door prop and prop the door from the DOOR SILL to the bottom of the door. DO NOT use a prop rod from the floor of the shop to the bottom of the door. If the car was to move the prop will fall away and the door will slam shut.
Use a strut lock on the strut as a safety back-up to hold the door open.
Be VERY CAREFUL with the rear plastic valence, they are not easily obtainable if broken.
Examine the head of the torsion bar and if you see a crack or the allen socket fits loosely do not attempt to adjust the bar. (Make sure it is fully inserted at all times)
The edges of the Tee roof that are exposed once you remove the rear valence are extremely sharp.
If the bolts that hold the anchor plate are stripped be prepared to fix them
Mark the position of the anchor plate with a pencil and adjust 1, 2 splines at the most at a time. Have several screwdrivers in case you need to pry and work the anchor plate loose off the splines. As you pry the anchor plate loose make sure you are not moving the torsion bar out of the socket in the front hinge.
Do not try this alone
Do not over-tension the torsion bar, the doors should not "bounce" .

As you can see from all of the warnings there are many ways this can end badly.
Experience with torsion bar suspension is not directly transferable to this. Your best option is to go to someone who has done it at least once.

The door hang test is reliable. The torsion bars do not "age" like struts and lose their power. If the door won't hang open at all you probably need at least 2 splines. The torsion bar was probably loosened because the strut that was used was too powerful.
David Teitelbaum