Number of DeLoreans Left: Time for Some "Expert" Opinions [Archive] - DMCTalk Forum

Dracula

11-22-2011, 09:48 AM

The article in this thread (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2324-Driving-a-Delorean-is-a-one-man-parade&p=31466#post31466) got me thinking and I'd like to hear what a few others think of this matter.

It's often stated that people expect there to be around 6,000 to 6,500 DeLoreans left. I disagree. I think the number is closer to 8,000 and here's why: there are many DeLoreans that are unknown and, with some minor repairs, could easily be made road-worthy again and aren't counted. I'd also say that of the 9,000 or so that were made, that it seems to be a realistic and slightly high estimate that there were 1,000 or so destroyed in 30 years.

Now, for the debate. What constitutes destroyed? I see it as a car where the VIN has been reported to belong to a car that was totaled and scrapped. A car with repairable damage or a good, titleable VIN is still around.

There's also the aspect of "on the road" vs "remaining" to consider. Very few are used as regular transportation, yet that doesn't meant that those that aren't shouldn't be considered. I'd estimate that there are about 500 DeLoreans that are driven daily year-round, and that number may be too high, seeing as many are out away for winter use.

dmc6960

11-22-2011, 10:33 AM

I agree with your premise that the 6500 number is irreverent. However I wont go as far to speculate ANY number though, as that is all you can do with this, speculate.

My logic...
The "6500 left" number has been around since I got involved with DeLorean's in the late 90's. So in the first 18 years, ~2500 cars were lost, then in next 12 years none were lost? This just proves that 87% of all staticstics are made up.

DeLorean

11-22-2011, 10:43 AM

SamHill

11-22-2011, 10:54 AM

Right now it is speculation, but it doesn't have to be! It can be roughly quantifiable with a few years of steady work. As good as owners are at ferreting out hidden cars, an amazingly list could be compiled.

The DMC wiki would have been perfect for this purpose had it not been maliciously spammed to death. A future version would ideally have all submissions approved by an admin.

Instead of continued speculation, this thread could be a call to renew the effort to settle the question over the long term once and for all.

Dracula

11-22-2011, 10:57 AM

Well, my DeLorean might have been considered "gone" because it had not been on the road or registered since 1991. I got it, and it's back on the road, registered, running driving. are there 6501 now? However I kind of doubt my case is typical...

Honestly, with the initial "quality" of the car, I find it hard to believe that only 1000-1500 of them were scrapped in the 30 years since these cars were made! If I had to guess, I would think the number left in existence might be closer to 5000 or possibly less.

You'd be amazed how many cars there are where that IS the typical story. I looked at one last week that hadn't been registered since '96, and a few months back, one that expired in 2001. The earliest I've personally seen was a car with a plate that expired in '83.

This is why I think we need a definition of how the cars are to be determined and to see if we can put together an actual more informed number that's less of an estimate.

Spittybug

11-22-2011, 11:49 AM

Isn't this exactly what Lazabby (Shannon Birdswell) does? He keeps a huge file of cars/owners. http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1594-VIN-Chronology

DMC3165

11-22-2011, 11:54 AM

Isn't this exactly what Lazabby (Shannon Birdswell) does? He keeps a huge file of cars/owners.

That was my thought. I would think he would have a realistic number (give or take a little) of how many are destroyed beyond repair. I can tell you my old D #774 after I sold it was in such bad condition it was dissambled and left to rot. The victim of an unsucsessful restoration attempt.

SamHill

11-22-2011, 01:57 PM

Isn't this exactly what Lazabby (Shannon Birdswell) does? He keeps a huge file of cars/owners. http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1594-VIN-Chronology

No. He does not indicate past locations and in some cases current locations of cars (or if it does which is which), condition of cars, keep photographs, history, past work done, whether modified, when bought and sold, etc. In my opinion, that is worthwhile information to gather. It also would go to answering the question of remaining cars within a certain range, which the linked list above does not.

I don't know if he keeps huge files of cars/owners, all I know that it is not available to the community to read or amend as needed.

Evildeli

11-22-2011, 01:59 PM

What about salvage titles? The car could be rebuilt, but with a salvage it can't be re-registered, so would it be counted? Other than that I would think that with the internet building up the community, more cars are being saved and less are being destroyed. I tell people that the number used to be around 6k, but should be around 7k now.

stevedmc

11-22-2011, 02:47 PM

dmc6960

11-22-2011, 03:03 PM

About 9,000 Deloreans were built.

About 6,000 Deloreans still exist.

About 3,000 Deloreans are drivable.

About 1,500 Deloreans get regular use.

I stand corrected, 88% of all statistics are made up.

Dracula

11-22-2011, 03:34 PM

About 9,000 Deloreans were built.

About 6,000 Deloreans still exist.

About 3,000 Deloreans are drivable.

About 1,500 Deloreans get regular use.

End of story. Sean, can you please close this thread?

I still disagree with that and say it's:

About 8,000 that still exist.

About 2,000 are drivable (at least 100 miles, not around the block).

About 500 see regular use.

stevedmc

11-22-2011, 03:35 PM

I still disagree with that and say it's:

About 8,000 that still exist.

About 2,000 are drivable (at least 100 miles, not around the block).

About 500 see regular use.

I'm lumping daily drivers and weekend cars in the same bucket. I'm sure there aren't many daily drivers at all.

Dracula

11-22-2011, 04:03 PM

I'm lumping daily drivers and weekend cars in the same bucket. I'm sure there aren't many daily drivers at all.

That makes more sense, but it also shows why there should be some sort of measurable standard for these cars. Since the body never rusts away, there are bound to be a good number of intact cars sitting in garages that people bought back in the '80s and left sit, but due to no registration and the lack of an actual account of production number, there are bound to be more potentially-restorable cars out there. It seems like there's at least a car a week being found and restored.

I'm going to do a little number-running here. The "6,500 Left" number has been around for about 20 years; sort of odd that so many would be suddenly wrecked, but that's another debatable point. Let's say that, on average, one car per week is restored to a semi-usable condition. Does that increase the number or leave it stagnant? Supposedly, "Left" meant intact, so let's say that the discovery of one car per week would add to this since the car was previously unknown. That would mean that 52 cars are added per year, or 1040 in the last 20 years. Now, subtract one a month for accidents and cars being parked. That would remove 240 cars. There would still be a net gain of 800 cars; putting the number at 7,300 cars "left."

Inversely, to get to the "6,500 cars left" one has to assume that in the first 10 years of their existence, 28% of the DeLoreans ever built, total, were gone. I don't believe that to be accurate

SoCalDMC12

11-22-2011, 04:20 PM

stevedmc

11-22-2011, 04:58 PM

The "6,500 Left" number has been around for about 20 years;

I remember this number from when I was a kid reading the DML back in the late 90s. Hence my updated number being 6,000 left.

Interesting thread... but all these numbers are still guesses.

My estimates are just as valid as Car Sagan's estimates on how many class M planets are in the universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB_v99FSTYc

Dracula

11-22-2011, 05:08 PM

Interesting thread... but all these numbers are still guesses. I'd love to get an accurate count based on research, but wouldn't know where to begin. I suppose individual states would have registration records, but do all state require non-operative cars to be registered as well? Would other countries have similar records?

Exactly the main point of this. Where does one even start? Registration is only good to an extent. If a car isn't registered or it's sold and not registered; case in point, I have yet to register 1265 because I see no reason to do so before I get the motor in the car. Due to me being online, it now shows that the car is in WI, but it was recorded as in Oklahoma before. If it had bounced around from a couple owners, instead, it'd be lost from all records, but still intact.

I suppose the best thing to say would have been that there are 6,500 KNOWN DeLoreans, but that's not entirely accurate, either.

What would be useful would be a list of all the cars parted out, scrapped, totaled, etc. Cars that can never see the road again. Those are the only ones to subtract to get the number of DeLoreans "left" if you follow my train of thought on the subject.

SoCalDMC12

11-22-2011, 08:54 PM

What would be useful would be a list of all the cars parted out, scrapped, totaled, etc. Cars that can never see the road again. Those are the only ones to subtract to get the number of DeLoreans "left" if you follow my train of thought on the subject.

That would be good list, but it would probably be tough to get accurate info from which it could be built. Do all states (and countries) keep records of totaled/scrapped cars? (I bet that no records exist for cars that are in the process of being parted out.)

Assuming all vendors keep VIN records for the cars that received parts, perhaps a reasonable estimate of the number of running cars could be created (assuming that all running Deloreans would need a Delorean-specific part if in service for X years)?

I suppose the best thing to say would have been that there are 6,500 KNOWN DeLoreans, but that's not entirely accurate, either.

I'd probably phrase that "6500 Deloreans are estimated to still exist" since that number's accuracy isn't verified.

Jonathan

11-22-2011, 09:16 PM

Just so we have a crystal clear starting point, what again is the agreed to number of DeLorean's originally manufactured?

I'm sure we can put some sort of statistical analysis on it to predict how many should be left over 30+ of history... but need to know what we started with.

Some thoughts on the 30 years since they were made:

- I don't think we are going to be able to nail down an exact account of every single car out there. Whether it's looking at how many we know to exist, OR how many we know to be lost.
- What do you think is a conservative estimate on the number of cars per month/or year that are destroyed? One per month globally?
- I like to think that many more are being repaired and made driveable in the past (10?... 15?) years since Stephen put DMCH back in business. So while we are getting more back on the road, we've also increased the number getting into write-off collisions, transportation fires, etc.
- Off setting that last decade or so of increased use would be the decade before that where many cars sat rotting away from lack of parts or expertise availability.
- Just throwing this out there, say it is 1 per month that is lost. In the 30 years prior, that would be 360 months, or 360 cars lost. That seems pretty low. Are 2 per month lost? 10 per month?
- I like to think it is along these lines of 9000 --> 6500 --> 2500 --> 500 or whatever, but I think there are a ton of cars out there that are just not "in the loop" of the DeLorean community. Judging by what we know here on the forum is just a fraction of what is out there IMO.

I think the best chance we have of knowing how many cars are out there lies within the customer databases of DMC themselves. I'm pretty sure they have a real good guess on how many cars exist. Their financial business plan would surely factor that in, in all likelihood. I mean, today's a good day for some conspiracy theory right? It's November 22nd afterall ;)

Dracula

11-22-2011, 09:48 PM

I'd probably phrase that "6500 Deloreans are estimated to still exist" since that number's accuracy isn't verified.

My entire problem with that phrase is that it seems to me that someone pulled it out of the air and it stuck because I could never find any backing, but it's quoted as part of the dogma of the DeLorean community. Boy, I'm starting to sound like Bill when I question things that are taken as fact...

The best guess to how many DeLoreans were made is based, primarily, off of VIN information and shows it to be right around 9,000. For the sake of ease, it's a nice number to remember and when prefaced with an "about" it works well.

Realistically, I'd say that one per month lost since 1981 is a pretty good estimate of the rate of loss of DeLoreans. MOST aren't driven often and are stored in garages, so they have very little chance of being destroyed. The winter months mean that the northern portion of the US parks their cars, if they drive them to begin with, so it reduces the number of cars on the road from November to June.

If there were a high rate of DeLoreans being destroyed, that would be one thing that the internet can track fairly well. Most actions publish the information of what vehicles are being offered and the internet has made it very easy to see when a wrecked car is going up for auction. Even so, it's typically 3 to 4 months time in which you'll see a thread about it. I'm sure there was also the initial spike in DeLorean wrecks when the cars first came out, but the fact that most painted cars seem to be hiding some form of damage means that a high number of the cars weren't destroyed.

So let's run a few options by here: 360 months since the DeLorean came out to work as a base line. For the generally-accepted 6,500 number, it would mean that 6 DeLoreans had to be destroyed, per month, every year since 1981. It's not infeasible, however, it still seems high. I'd say that 3 cars lost per month seems like a fair average. The 6,500 number has 1 DeLorean being destroyed every 5 days, which seems high.

Let's say that 3 DeLoreans have been destroyed, per month, since 1981. That means that at least one car has been wrecked every 10 days. It's not perfect, but it's an entirely plausible (if a very unpleasant) possibility. That would mean that 1,080 DeLoreans have been destroyed beyond the point of salvaging. By that numbers, Around 7,920 would still exist, even if the cars aren't drivable.

I feel confident enough to say that over 7,500 DeLoreans still exist today.

SoCalDMC12

11-22-2011, 10:20 PM

My entire problem with that phrase is that it seems to me that someone pulled it out of the air and it stuck because I could never find any backing, but it's quoted as part of the dogma of the DeLorean community.

Sure, but I just wanted to replace the "KNOWN" in your post with something a bit softer, to reflect the fuzzy nature of that number.

I feel confident enough to say that over 7,500 DeLoreans still exist today.

I suppose that number is fine as well, but it is also derived from one person's estimates/assumptions, not on hard data.

I wonder if the loss rate was higher in the '80's when these cars were still fairly new. Back then, more people may have been using them as "regular cars", exposing them to more dangers. Also, it was probably harder to get a wreck back on the road back then (after the demise of the dealer network, but before a strong vendor network and forum support was established).

Renee_1632

11-22-2011, 10:31 PM

I'm in an opinionated mood today. So, my thoughts:

As for existing, If I can physically hold the intact VIN plate in my hands, that DeLorean exists, as far as I am concerned. I am confident there are enough parts (yes, even LFFs) to completely rebuild at least a few DeLoreans--even if all the parts (starters, headers, etc) aren't exactly all stock. Title gone? That doesn't magically make a car vanish. Screw the government's paperwork. By my "logic", there are a lot left. I think a better, more telling count is how many are "in use"--they are weekend cars, daily drivers, even cars like Sean's...in four pieces, yes, but accounted for by its owner as a project. By this, random VIN hiding in the woods in Vermont does not count.

When you say "exist" I take it literally. As in, not a charred pile in a junkyard.

Dracula

11-22-2011, 10:32 PM

SoCalDMC12

11-22-2011, 11:01 PM

I think a better, more telling count is how many are "in use"--they are weekend cars, daily drivers, even cars like Sean's...in four pieces, yes, but accounted for by its owner as a project. By this, random VIN hiding in the woods in Vermont does not count.

Agreed, but this is a figure that's no easier to create accurately. 6500, 7500... still just estimates not based on hard data. (Which is fine... at this point, after ~30 years of being on the road, I doubt that anything better than an estimate can be made.)

I wonder if anyone has tried to get this number for any other extinct marque... perhaps a process to get to an accurate number exists out there.

Renee_1632

11-22-2011, 11:08 PM

Agreed, but this is a figure that's no easier to create accurately. 6500, 7500... still just estimates not based on hard data. (Which is fine... at this point, after ~30 years of being on the road, I doubt that anything better than an estimate can be made.)

I wonder if anyone has tried to get this number for any other extinct marque... perhaps a process to get to an accurate number exists out there.

I know Tuckers have been counted. But when there were only 50 to begin with, it's a bit easier. :rofl:

SoCalDMC12

11-23-2011, 01:09 AM

I know Tuckers have been counted. But when there were only 50 to begin with, it's a bit easier. :rofl:

LOL. You could fit the entire production run in a McDonalds parking lot! I was thinking more of the Pontiac Historic Society... I think they have a registry for GTO's.

Dracula

11-23-2011, 01:28 AM

LOL. You could fit the entire production run in a McDonalds parking lot! I was thinking more of the Pontiac Historic Society... I think they have a registry for GTO's.

They have the major advantage of documentation and factory records. Still, unless every single car is accounted for, it's always going to involve some level of intuitive guesswork.

Dangermouse

11-23-2011, 08:23 AM

fwiw I see the 6500 number, most often in articles involving DMCH (aka the "expert" in these interview situations). I have to assume that the interviewer/journo talking to Steve or James must ask basic questions "When and where were they made? How many were made? How many are left?"

Personally I like Shannon's logic of 8987 cars built.

And, frankly, who is better to estimate the number of cars left, that the supplier of parts to those cars.

At some point, probably in the late 90s, I assume that DMCH went through their customer list (data-mined old-school, so-to-speak) and came up with the 6500, but whether they had 6500 VINs on file, or a smaller number that they pro-rated isn't known. Perhaps they haven't done it again recently.

As a side bar, do you think it is in DMCH's best interest to over- or under-estimate the numbers of cars left? Is it in their interests to keep the 6500 number out there, even if they know it is incorrect?

Dracula

11-23-2011, 08:30 AM

As a side bar, do you think it is in DMCH's best interest to over- or under-estimate the numbers of cars left? Is it in their interests to keep the 6500 number out there, even if they know it is incorrect?

I would say that it's definitely in their best interest to keep the number smaller. It makes the cars seem rarer and people are always willing to pay more for when there are fewer of something in the world; it's supply and demand. There are exceptions, like things that should never have been made, but my point stands.

The 6,500 number has been around longer than DMCH and is always thrown out there when people are questioned about how many remain. I don't hold anyone responsible for perpetuating it; I just don't believe it to be accurate.

DMCVegas

11-23-2011, 09:40 AM

The 6,500 number has been around longer than DMCH and is always thrown out there when people are questioned about how many remain. I don't hold anyone responsible for perpetuating it; I just don't believe it to be accurate.

The "6,500" number came from the DOA quite a few years ago, back in the mid 1990's if I remember correctly. It was supposed to represent the number of D's that were physically roadworthy and able to drive under their own power with no problems. The remainder of which would be counted as either destroyed, or derelict requiring a restoration of some sort to get on the road again.

For example my car is sitting with a blown engine and I haven't gotten around to dropping the replacement lump in yet. As such the DOA considered that a detractor, and that it did not count as one of the "6,500" cars. Regardless of completeness, or eligibility, let alone intent, if it couldn't move under it's own power, it was considered as though it were destroyed.

Something else to consider is the radical impact that the DML itself had on the DeLorean community, and how that number, even if it was "correct" at one time is no longer valid because of the DML. Because we have such information hubs like this, some of the once common problems with DeLoreans have now been reduced to trivial items that we almost take for granted like "Hot Start" and cooling system issues. So in the late 90's as the cars approached the 20 year mark, the market started to get flooded with ones for sale. Luckily for the marque as well as the new owners, the DML had appeared. Like I say, common issues we now take for granted were big concerns back then because before the DML you were pretty much stuck with the DOA for help. You had a quarterly magazine that you could write into for help, and otherwise had to pour through articles in Delorean World magazine that spanned years. Plus you had to hope that your issue was even in there.

Because of the lack of information readily available to anyone needing to repair a DMC-12, many cars became hopelessly abandoned. As such this "6,500" number came about. However if you considered the amount of people here who are brought back cars and made them roadworthy, then you know that number was easily invalidated about a decade ago.

Another number is "8,583" which is supposed to represent the total number of DMC-12s built in Dunmurry. This number came from Sir Kenneth Cork's assessment of the DMCL's paperwork. It too is of course an inaccurate number. Knut Grimsrud's project from the mid to late 1990's was proving this as well, showing the actual number of produced vehicles quite possibly being closer to 10,000. Here too it's hard, if not impossible to predict just how many cars were made. Chassis numbers don't always, if ever tie into VINs, and like my car, it's doors when made on that assembly line were destined for another car that was 2 digits lower. Was it a synchronization problem or someone installing the wrong locks into the wrong car? We'll never know. Just like these numbers.

In both cases though, these numbers have just been repeated over and over again so many times that many people have just accepted them as fact. But whenever you see an article that quotes "6,500" or "8,583", you can tell that the author of the material only skimmed over a couple of sites in the internet that parroted these numbers instead of doing any actual in-depth research on anything.

I agree though that a new classification system should be implemented such as the one created in one of the online polls here regarding condition, in order to obtain true numbers. However I doubt that those numbers are truly attainable. Aside from people who may not be at liberty to discuss a private matter such as their car's condition, there are also hundreds more, if not thousands of other people who don't regularly, if at all, communicate with the community using modern electronic means.

stevedmc

11-23-2011, 10:31 AM

I think its time to post this question on the DML. We need to get an expert answer from Bill.

DMCVegas

11-23-2011, 10:50 AM

I think its time to post this question on the DML. We need to get an expert answer from Bill.

http://graceetcetera.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/troll_fail.jpg

Having said that, let's keep things on topic.

SoCalDMC12

11-23-2011, 12:38 PM

The "6,500" number came from the DOA quite a few years ago, back in the mid 1990's if I remember correctly.

Well, the DOA was probably as good a source as any for an estimate... they had the largest audience back then, so would have a decent amount of info from which a number could be extrapolated.

So if it has become easier to bring these cars back to life over the past ~15 years how many could be estimated to have been added to the 6500 number? A few dozen? A hundred? Would they outstrip the number of cars taken out of service in the same period?

jerzybondov

11-23-2011, 02:16 PM

Mike C.

11-23-2011, 02:50 PM

That's what's wonderful about the word "approximately". No counting, any reasonable guesses can be accepted as fact.

Lets face it, the factory can't even tell how many cars rolled out, let alone were purchased, nor do we have registration counts from all over the world.

Lets just keep using the word 'approximately'. Less work, more mystery. :biggrin:

SamHill

11-23-2011, 03:13 PM

We know with certainty that the factory made more than 8,000 and there's no way they made as many as 20,000. While that appears to be a huge range, it isn't for this reason: it means that resolving the ultimate question is doable with work from a dedicated community. Every accounted-for car shrinks that range, until we get to a much less "mysterious" margin. Just because there are many cars that are hidden doesn't mean that they won't eventually come out from hiding here and there. Catching them when they make a brief appearance is the important thing. A detailed web based form for each vin that can be filled in by registrants would be ideal, if anyone has the internet skills to make that happen. That's how houses are built: brick by brick. Or we can keep using words like "approximate" and "mysterious."

SamHill

11-23-2011, 04:24 PM

7029

Mike C.

11-23-2011, 05:58 PM

Problem with that is there are a crap load of people with D's that are not online, especially the older folks who put them in zip lock bags and stored them away for freshness.

cineman

11-23-2011, 06:26 PM

The other question in all of this is where the cars are - I bet you'll find that the rate of exports from the USA is significantly higher than the rate of write-offs. How many cars have been shipped out of the USA in the last 30 years? Close to 500 I reckon...

I'm quite conviced here in Europe we have a number more closer to 1000 cars than 500...maybe 800 around. I remember some list of the clubs, and i always ask when i go to meetings.
I remember a list of cars just in Ireland was close to 100, cars in Germany, Netherlands is quite like that, in France and UK not many less i think to remember, here in Italy i have a list of about 40 cars... true that lot of them are in collection, hidden, never seen, and lot of times you discover a delorean you never heard of...so counting also the other countries here and the still not known one, i think we have some numbers. I do believe too the total to be higher than the 6500, I'm with Dracula ;)

SamHill

11-23-2011, 06:31 PM

Problem with that is there are a crap load of people with D's that are not online, especially the older folks who put them in zip lock bags and stored them away for freshness.

I understand that. Its not an insignificant percentage, either. But consider the way thirdmanj found a car in VA recently: somebody who knew somebody told him, which led to him briefly laying eyes on the nonrunning car. For our purposes, that's enough to verify it. More info would be nice, but we take the little bit we can get. It would take years of vigilance and reporting. To get extra fancy, you could "tag" a vin when you spot it, a la facebook, which remains part of its history.

Citizen

11-24-2011, 09:32 AM

I'm quite conviced here in Europe we have a number more closer to 1000 cars than 500...maybe 800 around. I remember some list of the clubs, and i always ask when i go to meetings.
I remember a list of cars just in Ireland was close to 100, cars in Germany, Netherlands is quite like that, in France and UK not many less i think to remember, here in Italy i have a list of about 40 cars... [SNIP]

The latest numbers from the Texas effort:

We know with certainty that the factory made more than 8,000 and there's no way they made as many as 20,000. While that appears to be a huge range, it isn't for this reason: it means that resolving the ultimate question is doable with work from a dedicated community. Every accounted-for car shrinks that range, until we get to a much less "mysterious" margin. Just because there are many cars that are hidden doesn't mean that they won't eventually come out from hiding here and there. Catching them when they make a brief appearance is the important thing. A detailed web based form for each vin that can be filled in by registrants would be ideal, if anyone has the internet skills to make that happen. That's how houses are built: brick by brick. Or we can keep using words like "approximate" and "mysterious."

7029

Done a long time ago, just not utilized.

No. He does not indicate past locations and in some cases current locations of cars (or if it does which is which), condition of cars, keep photographs, history, past work done, whether modified, when bought and sold, etc. In my opinion, that is worthwhile information to gather. It also would go to answering the question of remaining cars within a certain range, which the linked list above does not.

I don't know if he keeps huge files of cars/owners, all I know that it is not available to the community to read or amend as needed.

There were/are really a number of different efforts or approaches to keeping DeLorean information. At one time, there was only the DeLorean Mailing List (DML) originally started by James Espey. Today, there are three different methods of accumulating and disseminating accurate DeLorean information.

First, there is the DeLorean Registry (the “Registry”). The Registry attempts to keep up with original factory build information and last known locations. This is what is maintained by Shannon and is available at the Texas club web site. It is occasionally published here as a service to the DeLorean community. It has no personal information in it.

Second, the Texas DeLorean club is attempting to build a list of other types of information not included in the Registry. Types of additional information include: Painted (and what color, incl Gold cars), engine swaps (including Stage I,II,III, electric), Right Hand Drive, BTTF conversions and known wrecks. This also does not include any personal information.

Third and finally, the Texas club has assumed the responsibility of maintaining the DeLorean Owner’s Directory (the DOD). This is a list of proven DeLorean owners that have provided list their name, address, phone and other relevant information, provided it is ONLY RELEASED TO OTHER MEMBERS OF THE SAME DOD WHO HAVE ALSO PROVIDED THEIR INFORMATION. The DOD only releases to DOD members.

The information above is available from the Texas Club (http://www.txdmc.org)web site respectively:
For the Registry, point to “Registry” from the top menu, then click "Info" or “Chronology”.
For the DeLorean conversion information, point to “Registry”, then click “VIN Stats”
For the DOD, point to and click “DOD”

I hope this is helpful, and I hope you’ll support this effort by supplying your new or corrected information as appropriate.

Thomas

...

Kevin

11-24-2011, 12:34 PM

The DMC wiki would have been perfect for this purpose had it not been maliciously spammed to death. A future version would ideally have all submissions approved by an admin.

Instead of continued speculation, this thread could be a call to renew the effort to settle the question over the long term once and for all.

Just wanted to make a quick comment on this. I now own the DMC VINs website (http://www.dmcvins.com, http://dmcv.in) which used to be maintained by Bernie Manderville. I've been meaning to make a post here asking the community what should be done with it. I've been thinking of something like what Sam suggested, where each VIN could have its own page (with a URL like http://dmcv.in/3472) and it could contain all kinds of information about it. Except this time, the site would be custom developed and not run by the easily-spammable Media Wiki. We can talk about the specifics in another thread, but wanted to mention it since it may help with this topic.

SamHill

11-24-2011, 02:05 PM

1. Both the efforts of individuals and the information from disparate databases should be unified.
2. If someone wants to provide excruciating minutia and pictures, I want to see them and read what they have to offer on their cars on a no-nonsense page.
3. It DOES need its OWN easy-to-remember domain. Also, I think the tagging functionality that I discussed earlier would be useful, as it continuously verifies the existence of a particular car.
4. Last, the bandwidth, page development, hosting fees, resources expended during collection of information and investigation of hidden cars means money. It begs to be promoted, and probably should be its own nonprofit. Unless Delorean Museum can provide leadership on the project, in which case, perhaps they could provide funding?

SoCalDMC12

11-24-2011, 03:32 PM

First, there is the DeLorean Registry (the “Registry”). The Registry attempts to keep up with original factory build information and last known locations. This is what is maintained by Shannon and is available at the Texas club web site. It is occasionally published here as a service to the DeLorean community. It has no personal information in it.

Second, the Texas DeLorean club is attempting to build a list of other types of information not included in the Registry. Types of additional information include: Painted (and what color, incl Gold cars), engine swaps (including Stage I,II,III, electric), Right Hand Drive, BTTF conversions and known wrecks. This also does not include any personal information.

Third and finally, the Texas club has assumed the responsibility of maintaining the DeLorean Owner’s Directory (the DOD). This is a list of proven DeLorean owners that have provided list their name, address, phone and other relevant information, provided it is ONLY RELEASED TO OTHER MEMBERS OF THE SAME DOD WHO HAVE ALSO PROVIDED THEIR INFORMATION. The DOD only releases to DOD members.

This is a great! Glad there is an effort being put forth to get this data. Some questions about the VIN Totals Data:

- In the "Last Reported Locations" area, Are the original factory distribution numbers used as a base, and updated each time a car is reported to have been moved from one country/state to another?
- I inferred from you original post that this particular list does not take wrecks, or cars otherwise take out of service, into account. Is this correct?
- Would adding the numbers under the DOD (active), and DOD (inactive) headers result in the total number of VIN's that have been reported into the Texas club? (If so, impressive that info on over 1400 VIN's was captured!)

Kudos for the hard work!

Citizen

11-24-2011, 08:14 PM

This is a great! Glad there is an effort being put forth to get this data. Some questions about the VIN Totals Data:

- In the "Last Reported Locations" area, Are the original factory distribution numbers used as a base, and updated each time a car is reported to have been moved from one country/state to another? Yes and yes.

- I inferred from you original post that this particular list does not take wrecks, or cars otherwise take out of service, into account. Is this correct? The original list does not take into account wrecks. However, on another part of the page which is not shown in the attachement, we keep a list of known wrecked or otherwise taken out of service.

- Would adding the numbers under the DOD (active), and DOD (inactive) headers result in the total number of VIN's that have been reported into the Texas club? No, not necessarily. The sum of DOD active, inactive and pending are only the DOD list, which is a list of DeLorean owners who have agreed to provide their personal information to other members of the DOD. It is independent of the Registry and a separate effort from trying to know about custom/modified DeLoreans. When Shannon makes updates, they are (eventually) combined with the custom information so that both are accurate and not in conflict. The DOD on the other hand, is only modified by the owners themselves. DOD information takes precedence obviously, because it is assumed to be straight from the owner.

Kudos for the hard work! Thank you!

(see comments embedded above)