Delorean Handling

[knightjp]

I was reading the book : "De Lorean Stainless Steel Illusion" by John Lamm... According to the book, Delorean was once trying to get Porsche to make the prototype production ready. Porsche asked for 2 years which Delorean didn't have and in order to meet deadlines went to Lotus instead. Now Lotus builds some of the most beautiful handling cars and even they claim (according to the book) that is they had more time they would have done a better job but instead cobbled together technologies from the Espirit to save R&D... Not entirely a bad thing, considering that the original engineering design was based on the Espirit itself.

But to get a better picture, Lotus was trying to put stuff for a mid-engined car into a rear engined platform... Doesn't that spoil handling???

If Porsche had gotten the contract, they might have done a better job with those 2 years since they built the 911 which was a rear engined car. In fact Delorean himself said so...
I've never driven a Porsche 911, but according to experts, it handles well but is also handful at times too.

So How is the Delorean actually in terms of handling??? Did Lotus bring in good handling with the borrowed Espirit stuff Or doesn't it make much of a difference considering the engine is underpowered... ?

[David T]

Even before Delorean came to Lotus, Lotus was (and still is) world renowned for their expertise in aerodynamics and handling. As an example they took their mid-engine frame, supersized it, and were able to put the engine package that DMC had selected into it, and created a rear-engined car with excellent handling. No minor feat considering all of the rear bias the car has. One of the reasons the car has larger tires on the rear than the front. Lotus has always been able to more with less. They had to, they were always under-financed and had to be innovative with what they could afford. Rear engined cars have peculiar handing traits and there are handing regimes you do NOT want to get into. Rear wheel slides in particular. Once the rear starts sliding around with all of that mass (inertia) it is near impossible to stop. Even Porsche has that problem as do all rear-engined cars. That is why Lotus went mid-engine. They knew what they were doing!
David Teitelbaum

[DMCNY]

How does the DeLorean handle?

Hmmm, lets see. I'll give this a shot. Well, when I first bought my car it had the original stock front coil springs (high boys). Felt kinda nose top heavy, with a little excessive sway in the front. Dropping the front end down with lowering springs made a HUGE difference.

It feels nice and tight in the corners. I've pushed my car a little bit in the corners but I don't drive like a race car driver either. I feel as though I could push the car as much as I feel comfortable with without being dangerous and it feels like it could be pushed a little harder without problem, but I just choose not to go there.

I'm still riding on the original Girlings and the ride over the road feels great to me. Not harsh like a pick-up truck and not too soft like a Lincoln. Personally I think being seated a little lower than most production cars gives you a better feel for the car, too.

Of coarse there are many different suspension upgrades avalible, too that can change everything.

[knightjp]

Even before Delorean came to Lotus, Lotus was (and still is) world renowned for their expertise in aerodynamics and handling. As an example they took their mid-engine frame, supersized it, and were able to put the engine package that DMC had selected into it, and created a rear-engined car with excellent handling. No minor feat considering all of the rear bias the car has. One of the reasons the car has larger tires on the rear than the front. Lotus has always been able to more with less. They had to, they were always under-financed and had to be innovative with what they could afford. Rear engined cars have peculiar handing traits and there are handing regimes you do NOT want to get into. Rear wheel slides in particular. Once the rear starts sliding around with all of that mass (inertia) it is near impossible to stop. Even Porsche has that problem as do all rear-engined cars. That is why Lotus went mid-engine. They knew what they were doing!
David Teitelbaum

I know Lotus tried to remove the gull-wing doors and the stainless steel idea, two things John Delorean wouldn't go for at all... those were the very two things he wanted the car to have from the very beginning. But I do know that the initial engineering for the first prototype was mean't to be mid engined. It was due Delorean changing the engine to the PRV that the layout was changed to rear engined with the second prototype. Still unclear why but it was after the second prototype was made and unveiled that Lotus was drafted in to make the whole thing production worthy...

My question is that if Lotus was doing the production engineering, why couldn't they change the layout back to a mid-engined one if they knew the current layout would compromise handling?? After all since they were putting most of the Esprit's engineering into the Delorean, surely the mid engined layout would have been a good idea too...

[fnzen]

read the book some more rear engine was also Johns demand

[David T]

DMC was by then pretty much "locked in" to the PRV. With the tight production schedule and the ability to get EPA certified quickly with the PRV drivetrain and the availability of the drivetrain there was no other choice they could have made at the price-point they had to make the car at. It turned out to be a compromise choice at best. Especially when they ditched the molded frame and went to the heavier steel backbone frame Lotus designed. With the added weight the car was underpowered now. That was the main reason for the Turbo program with Legend Industries, to try to improve the performance to compete with other cars in it's class. The '84 model would have been a screamer! DMC also had plans to change the transmission, they were not getting the support they needed from Renault.
David Teitelbaum

[DeloreanJoshQ]

I believe in another book, Delorean told Lotus that one set of golf clubs had to fit behind the seats which was another reason for the rear engine layout....

As for handling, I have reached my driving limit before the car has reached its own, so I am happy with the handling...I can't complain.
I am not as sensitive as some others to the engine weight being behind me as well....for what it's worth...
Also, I did all of the suspension upgrades to minimize any handling issues and I believe that choice served me well....

[Kenny_Z]

I spent a few days driving the Delorean back and forth to work to make sure all the bugs were finally squashed. Then I drove my 99 Monte Carlo and I nearly put her in a ditch. I got so used to taking corners and generally swinging my little Delorean around that when I got into another car it couldn't handle it. I know the monte is no corner carver but it is a modern front wheel drive car. I had to check myself repeatedly when I took my Mustang for a spin or it really would have been a spin.

I can't wait do fix that nose high front end and see what this little car can really do. :screwy:

[knightjp]

read the book some more rear engine was also Johns demand
I did read... John wanted the engine either mid or rear... He didn't care either way, but he didn't want the engine in the front.

911 owners love the handling of their little squashed beetles... Some do say that it becomes a bit of a handful at the limit especially if the car is over powered... like having a turbo w/o the 4WD...
Since the turbos only bring the power of the PRV upto the mark, then we're OK I guess.

What I would like to see is... Take 2 Deloreans and hand them over to both Lotus and Porsche (1 each)... I'd like to see what Lotus would do differently change or modify since the time limits no longer apply. I'd like to see what Porsche would modify in the Delorean based on their experience with the 911.
And then at the end of it... Pit the two cars in some sort of competition on handling, etc...
Rules... they can only use the PRV V6... no engine swaps.

[knightjp]

Yes, I drove mine the other day. In terms of body roll, it handles better than my 2006 PT Cruiser, but not as well as my 1998 Concorde or my 1993 Duster. I cannot compare it to vehicles of the time, since I was not driving in 1981.

In my opinion, a stock DMC-12 handles okay -- but not great -- partly because the car is too tall (I think Lotus designed the chassis to sit lower), and partly because it's rear-engined. The DMC-12 prototype, according to people who have driven it, handles like it's on rails compared to the stock DMC-12, in part because of where the drivetrain sits. Unfortunately, Citroën's 4-banger provided less oomph than was desired, so DeLorean suggested a turbocharged version. Citroën said "non," so that was the end of that.

Farrar

Another major difference is that the stock DMC has a backbone chassis like most Lotus cars... one of the things borrowed from the Esprit. The prototype had some kind of sub-frame thing...
I think it had something more to do with fact that Lotus was taking stuff from the Esprit to save time and that was a mid-engined car not a rear engined one like the Delorean.
Seeing how the initial design was based on the Esprit, I guess Lotus thought that whatever they were porting over would work; forgetting one import aspect.. The engine. The Delorean was initially designed to be a mid engined car... not a rear engined one. It was the sudden shift to the PRV that made that change... not a good one, but then again given to the right people, it would've been great.
Frankly even John Delorean admited that Porsche would've done a better job had they been given the time they wanted since they had a lot of experience with the 911.

[JIMJAM]

My Delorean about killed me the first time I drove it in the rain. The front end was jumping around so bad I about lost it.
Since then I have done some easy to do things that have greatly improved the handling and overall feel of the car.
Number one was the shock tower cross bar. That took alot of the roll out. I then lowered the front and rear with new shocks and springs. Again I got a good reduction in roll. When I repalced my radiatior I went ahead and replaced the bushings. Nice placebo effect.
But the most noticable increase in handling was adding ALOT of weight to the front. Rather than add useless dead weight I put a low profile floor jack up front, a 1 ft by 3 ft Sears plastic low profile mini tool box loaded with tools. That really keeps the front end play down and helps in curves and also rain which I rarely drive in.

Now as far as what cars the D feels like stock. I once owned a Bradley GT2 kit car with a VW engine in the rear. If you floored it the front tires came off the ground. The Delorean to me felt like driving a empty ice tray when you twist it. Like a old Vette I hated the sound of sand blasting my as* so I added 2 layers of sound proofing to the floor board. Now the car feels more solid and sounds less like a milk jug.

[David T]

If Porsche got involved it *may* have turned out "better" in terms of handling and performance but it would have taken much longer and been even later to the market and for sure it would have cost a LOT more. Be happy with what you got. ALL cars are an engineering and economic compromise. For sure if DMC had been able to stay in business you would have seen a LOT of improvements. As a beginning entrance to marketplace car, it was spectacular at the time. The biggest problem was that because it did not meet schedule, was over-hyped and raised expectations, and was underpowered, it was not the roaring success DMC had hoped it would be. When it was finally offered to the public, between the bad press and the economic climate (recession) and high gas prices, the timing turned out to be awful. No way to know what the world is going to look like 2-3 years in advance when you have to build a car AND a factory from scratch!
David Teitelbaum

[knightjp]

If Porsche got involved it *may* have turned out "better" in terms of handling and performance but it would have taken much longer and been even later to the market and for sure it would have cost a LOT more. Be happy with what you got. ALL cars are an engineering and economic compromise. For sure if DMC had been able to stay in business you would have seen a LOT of improvements. As a beginning entrance to marketplace car, it was spectacular at the time. The biggest problem was that because it did not meet schedule, was over-hyped and raised expectations, and was underpowered, it was not the roaring success DMC had hoped it would be. When it was finally offered to the public, between the bad press and the economic climate (recession) and high gas prices, the timing turned out to be awful. No way to know what the world is going to look like 2-3 years in advance when you have to build a car AND a factory from scratch!
David Teitelbaum

There is no denying that when it comes to engineering, the Germans have everyone beat. How are they able to get high horsepower out of small engines is beyond me. The Italians are capable, but the Germans manage to make their work reliable as well.
I'm sure Delorean would've loved to have that bulletproof engineering on the DMC-12, but its wasn't mean't to be and he was running out of time.
Fortunately his other choice was a pretty good one too... Lotus is a great company & are skilled engineers.
You're right in the sense that all cars are a compromise and its even more difficult for a small company.
I guess thats what the aftermarket is for. Its your car and you can do what you want with it to upgrade the performance and handling.
I wish they hadn't used that PRV V6 or would've chosen to turbocharge it or something from factory. It may be good engine to appear in Venturis and Alpines, but you have to remember that those are made of fibreglass and are turbocharged to add performance... The Delorean is a much heavier car that these....
The fact is now, with the Stage 3 kit, the PRV V6 just comes to the mark of performance required for a sports car.

[opethmike]

The DeLorean is also a fiberglass car, ya know. It just happens to be skinned in stainless.

[tyb323]

The fact is now, with the Stage 3 kit, the PRV V6 just comes to the mark of performance required for a MODERN sports car.

Fix'd for you.

Also, the Alpine and Venturis you mentioned from the same time period weighed almost exactly the same as the DeLorean. The alpine originally came with a naturally aspirated 2.7 l PRV. So should be around the same performance as the D.

They weren't the awful cars you seem to think they were when they came out. They oversold performance and people were disappointed, yes. But for the time, DeLoreans offered middle of the road performance.

Try not to compare modern performance numbers with 30 year old numbers. 5.5 0-60 was Ferrari/Lambo territory alone back then, now a v6 mustang can do it faster.

Food for thought.