CV Joints and Lip Seals?

[TTait]

I feel like these existed on the old forum?

[TTait]

How do I evaluate the CV joints, preferably while still on the car?

[sean]

Well, examine the boots/clamps. If they are OEM, plan on replacing the boots and grease. If the boots are torn or missing, plan on a complete disassembly to inspect the bearings and race.

[TTait]

Well, examine the boots/clamps. If they are OEM, plan on replacing the boots and grease. If the boots are torn or missing, plan on a complete disassembly to inspect the bearings and race.

They look ok, but I have a clunk at low speed in the rear, If I raise each wheel will I be able to feel anything on a bad CV?

[sean]

They look ok, but I have a clunk at low speed in the rear, If I raise each wheel will I be able to feel anything on a bad CV?

Well if you raise the rear of the car and grab the shafts it should be prett tight. If you can rotate the shaft and hear "clunking" then pull it apart. Again, if the boots are original, drop the shafts and rebuild. A clunk at low speeds in the rear could be a couple different things.

[TTait]

Will crawl under this weekend - thanks. I have not seen a rebuild kit for the joints, and I understood it to be a easy task to screw up (ball bearings and cages and such). With Hervey selling rebuilt units ready to install for $125 each, that sounded like the easier path to take. I'm happy rebuilding brake calipers for example, but ball bearings seem to vex me all too often, and it looked like the clamps for the boots needed a special tool?

[sean]

Will crawl under this weekend - thanks. I have not seen a rebuild kit for the joints, and I understood it to be a easy task to screw up (ball bearings and cages and such). With Hervey selling rebuilt units ready to install for $125 each, that sounded like the easier path to take. I'm happy rebuilding brake calipers for example, but ball bearings seem to vex me all too often, and it looked like the clamps for the boots needed a special tool?

Hervey does have a great price and if you're on fence about rebuilding them yourself get his unit. The boot clamps do require a tool to install correctly.

[Delorean Industries]

Our rebuilt powder coated option are available too here:

https://www.deloreanindustries.com/shop/parts/refurbished-components/refurbished-axle-set.html

Kit features include-
-powder coated finish
-all components hot tanked removing all grease
-all parts checked and measured, replaced if required
-new boot kit with synthetic grease. (not heavy truck grease available elsewhere)
-stainless band clamps replacing the failure prone crimp boot retainers
- stainless steel axle locking tabs and new M10 hardware with locking washers.

The most comprehensive and complete rebuild and upgrade on the market.

[Evildeli]

Does it make a difference on how I lift the car? If I use ramps will that be an issue or do you recommend jack stands?

[DMCMW Dave]

Will crawl under this weekend - thanks. I have not seen a rebuild kit for the joints, and I understood it to be a easy task to screw up .......?

Nah - just messy.

http://dmcnews.com/Techsection/cvjoint.htm

which points you to:

http://volksweb.relitech.com/cvjoints.htm

Rebuild kit is here:
http://store.delorean.com/p-8720-axle-boot.aspx

[stevedmc]

Hervey does have a great price and if you're on fence about rebuilding them yourself get his unit. The boot clamps do require a tool to install correctly.

You could also drive to Seans house if you are within 10 or so hours of Atlanta. I drove out there and for the cost of fuel, hotel, boots/grease, and food, I managed to get mine rebuilt and had a mini vacation for $9 less than it would have cost to have ordered the ones from Hervey. Hervey's are a good deal though. Not everyone is as crazy as I am to drive over a thousand miles in one weekend.

[Evildeli]

I bought Houston's boot kits, studied Sean's PDF and rebuilt my CV's over the weekend. Here's my notes;

Invest in sidewalk chalk, if you don't have a kid. I wanted to put the axles back on the same way the came off and so I used chalk to mark "T" from the trans side, and "W" on the wheel side. The less I have to worry about the better ;)

Put the car on jacks. I thought about going with ramps but found that I needed to use and open wrench instead of socket due to the limited space. I would then take off the accessible bolts, release the parking brake, spin the wheels until more bolts were visible. Then I'd enable the parking brake again and continue working.

Reassemble off the rod. When everything comes apart, there is so much black grease that it makes it hard to figure out anything. And of course taking apart is easier than putting back together. When I finally got to putting everything back in place, I placed the inner race back on the rod first and started putting the ball bearings back in. At best I could only get 3 of the 6 back in. Took me nearly 40 minutes. It felt like a puzzle. Eventually I took everything off the rod and tried rebuilding. Turns out by having the rood out of the way of the inner race, I had more leverage to rotate everything.

Brackets were the death of me. I tried using Houston's brackets to secure the boots, but I've never worked with those type before. I found I couldn't tighten down the large brackets and the small brackets were way too big for the small end. Again, I've never used those type before so I wanna place user error here. So I went to the auto store. They sold me SS bands. They looked great and simple to use but when I got home, I found them slipping(grease didn't help). So I went to ACE hardware to look for metal brackets that tighten with a screw driver, but they are all too wide. Checking the PDF again, I went with heavy duty black plastic ties from Auto Zone.

Grease will get everywhere! Buy extra paper towels. Trust me, 1 roll is not enough. And buy extra gloves. I tore through so many gloves, and when I wasn't I would have to stop every once in a while and wipe the excess grease off my gloves. I ended up tracking grease in my driveway, garage, grass, tile floors, carpets, 1 of my cats, and my wife. She was not happy. I will most likely throw away all the cloths I wore. It's not worth throwing in the washing machine.

Other than that, it turned out to be an easy, if not messing and time consuming project.

[rundmc]

There was an awesome how-to about this on the old site. And here it is! - http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1288-How-To-Rebuild-the-CV-Joints

[TTait]

Finally getting to this. My drivers side axle has a little slop in it, so I'll swap that out for a Hervey rebuild. Passenger side seems tight, boots in good condition. DMCCA replaced the boots 6 years ago, about 20k miles I guess. Do I replace both at the same time, or just leave it be if it looks good? Anyone had trouble with Herveys rebuilt drive shafts?

Next, I'm going to do lip seals too. Can someone please give me a write up? I recall that it is critical to get the tension on the retaining nut perfect - please someone tell me how to not screw this up...

Do I need to replace the 10090 flange pins?

Many thanks.

Tom

[DMCMW Dave]

Next, I'm going to do lip seals too. Can someone please give me a write up? I recall that it is critical to get the tension on the retaining nut perfect - please someone tell me how to not screw this up...

Many thanks.

Tom

Don't take the retaining nut off at all. The manual is wrong. The o-ring there rarely (read never) leaks. You can remove and replace the seal without removing the nut.

Most important thing is that when you drive the roll pin out of the flange pay attention to where it's going. It's pretty annoying to lock it up against the trans body and have no access to drive it back out.

Otherwise there isn't much to write up. Take the old seal out, put the new one in with a seal driver. Also don't forget the small o-rings that are on the stub-axles inside the trans (get them out with a pick). DMC part 103120.

[Dangermouse]

Grease will get everywhere! Buy extra paper towels. Trust me, 1 roll is not enough. And buy extra gloves. I tore through so many gloves, and when I wasn't I would have to stop every once in a while and wipe the excess grease off my gloves. I ended up tracking grease in my driveway, garage, grass, tile floors, carpets, 1 of my cats, and my wife. She was not happy. I will most likely throw away all the cloths I wore. It's not worth throwing in the washing machine.

:hysterical:

Very true - happy memories.

Extra tip - have a trashcan with a big plastic bag inside very nearby so you can just drop everything in it.

I should have done my lip seals at the same time, but neglected to.

[aludden]

How likely is it for the ball bearings in there to be bad? My boots have been replaced before, so they are broken but not torn apart - the bearings have not been too exposed.
It would be a pain to have it all taken apart and then find out I need to order more parts.

[sean]

How likely is it for the ball bearings in there to be bad? My boots have been replaced before, so they are broken but not torn apart - the bearings have not been too exposed.
It would be a pain to have it all taken apart and then find out I need to order more parts.

I've never seen a set of DeLorean CV bearings go bad and I've rebuilt a ton of these things. This is not to say that it cant happen but if the boots are not torn or off and there is grease in there the likelihood is low. Also, there are no part numbers for the innards so you'd have to find someone who would sell you some innards, I have some if you need them but doubt you will.

[aludden]

[...] Also don't forget the small o-rings that are on the stub-axles inside the trans (get them out with a pick). DMC part 103120.

I have an auto trans, so do you mean part 103691 for me?

[sean]

I have an auto trans, so do you mean part 103691 for me?

Yup, #3 on the diagram:
http://store.delorean.com/images/Category/large/4-5-7.gif
8078
from www.delorean.com

[DMCMW Dave]

I have an auto trans, so do you mean part 103691 for me?

Yes they are the same part.

I've never seen the balls in the CV joint go bad, but I've seen a few where they were driven with the boots torn open for a long time (full of dirt/water) and the outer race gets very worn. This will lead to clicking/clunking in the joint. You will see shiny areas in the race where the balls make contact, but they should only be shiny. If the areas have any depth at all they are too worn.

They make good paperweights though.

[dmc6960]

Yes they are the same part.

I've never seen the balls in the CV joint go bad, but I've seen a few where they were driven with the boots torn open for a long time (full of dirt/water) and the outer race gets very worn. This will lead to clicking/clunking in the joint. You will see shiny areas in the race where the balls make contact, but they should only be shiny. If the areas have any depth at all they are too worn.

They make good paperweights though.

If you're referring to mine from 7-8 years ago, I could have swore there were at least 2 if not 3 bad balls in that joint.

For those wondering, it wasn't rebuildable.

[DMCMW Dave]

If you're referring to mine from 7-8 years ago, I could have swore there were at least 2 if not 3 bad balls in that joint.

For those wondering, it wasn't rebuildable.

I forgot about that one. I've see a couple since but not as bad.

[TTait]

More questions as things come apart...

While so much is apart, I'm thinking about the rear bearings, which are original and have close to 100k miles... having removed the large nut and hub assembly with the lug studs, and with the drive axle removed, how does the outboard drive shaft come out of the bearing/hub carrier? Do I just put the nut on the end of the shaft and use a hammer to drive it in, or is there a proper way to do it?

I presume I must then rent a tool to draw the bearing out of the carrier and then press the new one in, or do I need to take the entire assembly to a shop and have them do this work?

With regard to the drive shaft, it appears that there is no specific end for the transmission versus the end for the wheel, or am I missing something?

When I put the lip seals in, do I need a sealant?

[TTait]

I had rips in the boots on both axles - in both cases the inboard boot. I'm guessing that one flexes more...

[sean]

Do I just put the nut on the end of the shaft and use a hammer to drive it in, or is there a proper way to do it?
?

Press them out and press them in. Take them to a shop if you don't have a press.



With regard to the drive shaft, it appears that there is no specific end for the transmission versus the end for the wheel, or am I missing something?

They are reversable, no dedicated side.



When I put the lip seals in, do I need a sealant

If you install an OEM lip seal with the felt liner I think it's recommended to apply some grease to the seal. If you are installing a modern replacement no sealant is required.

[TTait]

Press them out and press them in. Take them to a shop if you don't have a press.



Is this something I can do with a large gear puller and washers or sockets etc, or rent a tool from auto zone, or does it need to come off the car? If off the car can I use my vise? I assume no to all of the above, but just confirming...

[Nicholas R]

A press is not needed for this job. I did mine today and it was a breeze.

http://image.streetrodderweb.com/f/29052438+w750+st0/0908sr_04_z+graham_tool_company+seal_puller.jpg

This is the tool you use to remove them. I bought one today at O'Reily for 9.99 then found out Harbor Freight had it for $7.99, oh well.
Be sure to pull them outward. I made this mistake on the first one. Pulled it inward and it was almost impossible. The second one I pulled outward; popped right out.

This is the tool you use to put the new ones in:
http://www.shoptoolsforpros.com/media/catalog/product/cache/13/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/a/s/astro-pneumatic-7824-seal-driver.jpg

I rented one of these today from Autozone. (or harbor freight for $30-$40 depending on the kit). Just make sure you tap them in straight, and drive from the outside in.

I dont think this is a job you can do on the car. If you do, you're going to have to get pretty creative with your installation and removal because the differential shaft will be sticking through the seal making it next to impossible to pull out or drive in. When I did mine today, not only did I have the transmission out of the car, I had the casing split and the differential out. I'm not aware of any other way. Plus if you drive the one on the side with the giant nut too far in, you can pop the little retaining plate/ring. Good luck.

[sean]

Is this something I can do with a large gear puller and washers or sockets etc, or rent a tool from auto zone, or does it need to come off the car? If off the car can I use my vise? I assume no to all of the above, but just confirming...


Take them to a shop if you don't have a press.

Off the car

[jawn101]

This is the tool you use to put the new ones in:
http://www.shoptoolsforpros.com/media/catalog/product/cache/13/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/a/s/astro-pneumatic-7824-seal-driver.jpg

I rented one of these today from Autozone. (or harbor freight for $30-$40 depending on the kit). Just make sure you tap them in straight, and drive from the outside in.


Nick - what does Autozone call this tool? I'm trying to find it on their site under loan a tool but I must be using the wrong keywords. :)

[Nicholas R]

Nick - what does Autozone call this tool? I'm trying to find it on their site under loan a tool but I must be using the wrong keywords. :)

I've always called it a seal/bearing driver set.

At Autozone they call it a Bearing and Race installer (Part number 27119):
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Bearing-and-Race-Installer/_/N-255s?itemIdentifier=391360

I had to call around as 2 of the 3 autozones near me didn't have any on the shelf. O'Reily rents them too (but were also out of stock for me), and advance had NO idea what I was talking about.

Dont let them tell you you need the bushing installer. The guy I was dealing with INSISTED that that was what I needed. I believe I used the 3rd smallest ring to drive them in.

[jawn101]

Cool, exactly why I wanted to know what to ask them for :) The lady I always seem to run into at the Autozone in town here won't try to convince me into anything. Last time I was in I had to stop her from prying the top off an Optima battery to show a customer where to pour the water.

Thanks!

[TTait]

Take the old seal out, put the new one in with a seal driver.

Finally doing this... Can someone recommend the proper seal driver?

[Nicholas R]

Finally doing this... Can someone recommend the proper seal driver?

Rent this from autozone:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Bearing-and-Race-Installer/_/N-255s?itemIdentifier=391360
http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/grn/27119/image/4/
I either used the second or third from the left; which ever one fit properly.

[TTait]

ok, I misunderstood and thought those were for setting the bearings, not the seals.

[TTait]

Hit one stumbling point, so I changed focus to work on another step, and was shut down on two fronts. Decided to go take a shower and clean up for the evening - but two new questions...

Driving out the pin that holds the inner flange in place over the lip seals - it will NOT budge. Was trying to drive it with a small phillips and a hammer - even tried to press it out using the screwdriver and a floor jack - nothing. Am planning on going out to buy an steel punch, but maybe I'm missing something?

Second - I went to loosen the fill plug before even trying the drain plug - it is fused tight too. Was using an adjustable wrench and it started to round so I stopped. Is there a special tool for this? Apply heat with the torch?

I'll get there eventually.

Thanks for advice.

Tom

[DMC3165]

Hit one stumbling point, so I changed focus to work on another step, and was shut down on two fronts. Decided to go take a shower and clean up for the evening - but two new questions...

Driving out the pin that holds the inner flange in place over the lip seals - it will NOT budge. Was trying to drive it with a small phillips and a hammer - even tried to press it out using the screwdriver and a floor jack - nothing. Am planning on going out to buy an steel punch, but maybe I'm missing something?

Second - I went to loosen the fill plug before even trying the drain plug - it is fused tight too. Was using an adjustable wrench and it started to round so I stopped. Is there a special tool for this? Apply heat with the torch?

I'll get there eventually.

Thanks for advice.

Tom

Yes the plug is a 10mm square. Not the easiest thing to find. But a tool distributor like snap on or SK will definitely have it.

The pin on the flange should come right out with the correct size punch. A screw driver is probably not a good tool for this. But if it works go for it. The whole job with the right tools should take you under an hour to complete.

[David T]

As you are finding out, having the right tool for the job not only makes it SO much easier, you have less chance of hurting yourself, damaging your tools, and destroying parts. Do yourself a BIG favor and get the Snap-On adapter and a set of pin punches. I hope you are using a good set of jackstands and a comfortable creeper. BTW using a small phillip's head screwdriver to drive the pins out is never going to do it. It will tend to spread the end making it harder to push. You really need to have the flat surface of a pin punch to push it, it is a roll pin, not a solid pin. Make sure when you push it out you have room on the other side, don't push it into a rib. You may need a big breaker bar (or a cheater bar) to loosen the plugs. Anything less than the best adapter will not take all of that abuse and may crack. If it does, you can guess the end of the story and it ain't pretty.
David Teitelbaum

[DMCMW Dave]

Hit one stumbling point, so I changed focus to work on another step, and was shut down on two fronts. Decided to go take a shower and clean up for the evening - but two new questions...

Driving out the pin that holds the inner flange in place over the lip seals - it will NOT budge. Was trying to drive it with a small phillips and a hammer - even tried to press it out using the screwdriver and a floor jack - nothing. Am planning on going out to buy an steel punch, but maybe I'm missing something?

Second - I went to loosen the fill plug before even trying the drain plug - it is fused tight too. Was using an adjustable wrench and it started to round so I stopped. Is there a special tool for this? Apply heat with the torch?

I'll get there eventually.

Thanks for advice.

Tom

1 Get a punch that is the correct size, and you will need one a bit longer than the norm. A phillips screwdriver tends to spread the pin, the opposite of what you are trying to do. ALSO BE SURE that the pin is aimed into free space above, it's really annoying to lock the pin against the case and then you can't drive it all the way out, can't drive it back in, and can't rotate the flange. And there is little room to get in there and cut it off. And then you need a new pin. . .

2 Yes - get the 10MM square "pipe plug" Snap-on tool for the drain plug. A crescent wrench is exactly the wrong tool, as is a 10mm open end wrench.

[Nicholas R]

...A crescent wrench is exactly the wrong tool, as is a 10mm open end wrench.

+1

An adjustable wrench gives quite a bit easily rounding.

I broke a 10mm wrench trying to use one; luckily they replaced it. I ended up using a vice grip but that was just me. Still probably best to get the right tool.

[TTait]

Well. I do at least have proper jackstands, a good creeper, drop light and eye protection...

The punch and adapter will have to be purchased before I move forward...

Thanks for the help guys.

[TTait]

That kit from auto zone can't be used for the lip seals, there is an output shaft in the way...

Anyway, with a proper punch I got the pin out and replaced the leaking lip seal and the o ring. Used a socket to set the seal in place.

It went so well I decided to go ahead and replace the other lip seal and o-ring on the passenger side... Did it all the same as the drivers and put if back together, but when I started to refill the oil - the passenger side now leaks, badly. I drained the oil back down to the point it won't leak, and now I'm cleaned up for dinner?

One night this next week I guess I'll pull the new seal out, inspect everything, and try again. Any tips appreciated.

Tom

[DMC3165]

Sounds like it didn't go in straight or the seal tore on the output shaft. In removing the seal you just put in its doubtful you'll be able to reuse it.

I would inspect the leaky seal and see what went wrong. Buy another and just try again. They can be a real pain in the a$$ sometimes. Especially if they don't go on straight.

[jawn101]

Clint and I just did this tonight with great success on 2100. Used Hervey's double-lip seals and everything went perfectly. Pulled the old seals with a seal puller hook and set the new ones in place by tapping a piece of 1/4 inch round bar stock against the seals until they set in place. Also used DMCMW's flange sleeves, a new differential adjusting nut O-ring and all new Redline MTL. No leaks and runs great.

[Farrar]

What's the name of this part? It's part of the output flange sleeve kit, but I can't remember.

88848885

I think it's called the "lip seal," but I feel there's a more "official" name for it. My mind blanked on it for some reason just now.

Thanks...

[jawn101]

What's the name of this part? It's part of the output flange sleeve kit, but I can't remember.

88848885

I think it's called the "lip seal," but I feel there's a more "official" name for it. My mind blanked on it for some reason just now.

Thanks...

AFAIK that's just called a lip seal :)

[TTait]

I'm not sure what the flange sleeves are - can you elaborate and send a link?

I also installed Hervey's double flange seals, but oddly it was the first one that was a little hard to get in, and the second one that went in straight and easy is the one that leaks.

Is it possible/likely that I drove it in too far? The outer face of the seal is about 5mm inset from the metal face of the transmission (passenger side - which has a smooth face).

I'm also not clear on how you tapped the seal in using a flat stock bar - can you elaborate? I used a socket and tried to drive it in straight, and as far as I could.

T

Fortunately I also bought a kit for my other car (auto) Looks like its the same lip seal for either the auto or the 5 speed, so I have 2 more tries to get this right.

[sean]

AFAIK that's just called a lip seal :)

Yup.

[jawn101]

I'm not sure what the flange sleeves are - can you elaborate and send a link?

...
I'm also not clear on how you tapped the seal in using a flat stock bar - can you elaborate? I used a socket and tried to drive it in straight, and as far as I could.


Sure, since you asked :)

The flange sleeves are thin stainless "rings" that fit around the flange before you insert it back into the seal. And when I say thin, I'm talking nearly immeasurable, two-dimensional thin. You tap them on and it increases the diameter of the flange ever so slightly and gives just a tiny bit of deformability that makes a much tighter seal. Midwest's website hasn't been available since the Houston switchover, but if you call them and ask about the flange sleeves they will know what you're after. Here's a couple shots of them.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8888&d=1331481847
Flange and sleeve

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8892&d=1331481862
Place the sleeve over the flange end and tap it into place with the included shipping/installation cup

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8890&d=1331481855
Installed and ready

As for tapping in the lip seal, here's the solution Clint came up with. He's the real evil genius behind that idea. There was only room for one of us under the car so I mostly removed, cleaned and degreased and staged things. Pics of that part:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8889&d=1331481851
Double lip seal greased up and ready to go in

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8891&d=1331481858
Tapping the seal into place. Just lightly knock on it all around the perimeter until it seats properly.

So now that there's no more transmission leaks, hopefully I can get to work cleaning up the awful mess the leaky old seals made down there :shameful:

[Farrar]

Thanks for the photos!

I installed the stainless-steel sleeve kit that came with rubber lip seals from P.J. Grady last year and my passenger-side shaft is leaking again. I don't want to have to by new lip seals every year. Is there any advantage or disadvantage to the "double-lip" (means something totally different to clarinet players, BTW) seal versus the OEM one which is part metal? Should I install one of each and see which leaks first? :lol:

[jawn101]

Thanks for the photos!

I installed the stainless-steel sleeve kit that came with rubber lip seals from P.J. Grady last year and my passenger-side shaft is leaking again. I don't want to have to by new lip seals every year. Is there any advantage or disadvantage to the "double-lip" (means something totally different to clarinet players, BTW) seal versus the OEM one which is part metal? Should I install one of each and see which leaks first? :lol:

They are one solid piece of rubber (with a spring inside), vs the original seals which seem to be pressed together from multiple pieces of metal, felt, plastic, etc. These disintegrated upon removal into their constituent elements. The double-lip ones will never do this.

Also, the double-lip design is meant to keep the lubricant in and contaminants out. This means that external dirt, oil, grease, debris, etc will never be able to get in and damage the internal oil seal around the shaft.

Some more pics (we took a lot of pics)

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8897&d=1331483335
Prying out the first layer of the old seal, a metal ring

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8896&d=1331483331
This metal bit completely detached from the rest of the seal. Happened on both sides.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8894&d=1331483324
Fishing out the inner felt and rubber

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8898&d=1331483338
Finally hooking the rubber portion out

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8895&d=1331483327
What's left of the old OEM seal vs the new single-piece double lip configuration

Hope this helps...

[Farrar]

Thanks, Jon. I think I will try one of each. The one I got is a metal outer sleeve, with a rubber seal inside overhanging the inner surface of the metal, with a spring inside the rubber to hold tension against the inner surface. Since it only cost me $4 I might as well give it a try and see how it holds up between now and Road Trip of Doom er I mean DCS Orlando :)

[sean]

Nice pics but I would suggest folks be real careful using a screwdriver and not a puller. Score the seal wall and your in for some real leaking.

[jawn101]

Nice pics but I would suggest folks be real careful using a screwdriver and not a puller. Score the seal wall and your in for some real leaking.

Very good advice. I hadn't thought of that and will have to have some strong words with my mechanic. Speaking of which, a big +1 on not using a crescent wrench on the fill/drain plugs...

[DMC5180]

Jon,

Did you Degrease things after the flanges were installed or leave it for corrosion protection? :biggrin:

[jawn101]

Jon,

Did you Degrease things after the flanges were installed or leave it for corrosion protection? :biggrin:

Haha, right? Every time I chisel off that gunk it seems like it was holding the car together. So far we only cleaned the immediate area around the flanges to be sure we didn't push any gunk back inside the case. Eventually I'll probably clean all that crap off.

It's amazing, sometimes we take the gunk off and the yellow zinc is pristine underneath. The gunk probably built up in the first year or so the car was on the road and kept everything perfect since then :)

[Farrar]

It's amazing, sometimes we take the gunk off and the yellow zinc is pristine underneath.

I was amazed to find out that the frame was originally gray, not black. :lol:

[jawn101]

I was amazed to find out that the frame was originally gray, not black. :lol:

Yeah, many color changes surprised me. Brake calipers - yellow. Frame - grey. Suspension arms - black. All of the above were pretty monochromatic when I got the car... :)

What's that you say? The transmission is made of aluminum and not seasoned cast iron? :lol:

[Farrar]

What's that you say? The transmission is made of aluminum and not seasoned cast iron? :lol:

That's about how I felt when I cleaned the oil pan for the first time... "Hey, this isn't a really grainy sand-cast piece of black metal after all..." :P

[Morpheus]

Lots of great info and pics in this thread, thanks fellas!

I have to rework my cv joints and pull my transmission apart, but that comes later on. I need to get my frame in shape first.

[sean]

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8894&d=1331483324


I just noticed how good this pic is. That oring at the base of the spindle should be replaced while doing he lip seals. It can be tough to see sometimes while the transmission is in the car.

[jawn101]

I just noticed how good this pic is. That oring at the base of the spindle should be replaced while doing he lip seals. It can be tough to see sometimes while the transmission is in the car.

Crap!!! That's what those were for!! I have them and couldn't remember where they went.

Well, they'll get done when we drop and split the trans I guess. Thanks for the reminder, Sean :)

Also, credit where it's due... Clint took all these photos :)

[mburshtain]

This thread was very helpful and I was wondering if there are any new insights discovered since this thread was written.
Can anyone comment on their recent experiences replacing o-rings and lip seals? I am curious to know which vendor sells products which proven to be efficient.
I recently did this job and I am experiencing a minor leak on both of my output shaft lip seals, while I had no leak on the right side to begin with. (I decided to replace it as my left side was sweating)

[kings1527]

This thread was very helpful and I was wondering if there are any new insights discovered since this thread was written.
Can anyone comment on their recent experiences replacing o-rings and lip seals? I am curious to know which vendor sells products which proven to be efficient.
I recently did this job and I am experiencing a minor leak on both of my output shaft lip seals, while I had no leak on the right side to begin with. (I decided to replace it as my left side was sweating)

Just did this job the other day by using this thread as well as the thread located over on Today and it was surprisingly a breeze for me. I used materials from PJ Grady and everything was great. Some points of interest:

-purchase a 6mm LONG pin punch to get the pin out of the axle flange. Absolute key piece of equipment here. Don't substitute SAE size or you'll mess the pin up. Not a bad idea to purchase two more of the $0.50 pins just in case.

-take note of the direction that you're driving the pin out to make sure you don't lock it in place in the transmission. Avoiding problems here is super simple to do; just take note when you're doing it.

-when pulling the old seal out, just go out and purchase a seal puller if you don't have one. Makes this part sooooooo easy and fast. Totally worth $10-15 for a good one that you'll keep forever.

-don't forget to change out the o-ring once you pull the flange. You'll need a pick to get it out.

-some say to make sure the split of the pin is facing AWAY from the transmission during re-installation. The theory is that if there's an oil leak, the solid part of the pin will stop the leak rather than traveling through the split and out.

-get some 2" PVC pipe to help you drive and seat the new seal. And that seal doesn't have to be driven flush; keep a tad of the seal protruding just a wee bit.

-pack the inside of the new seals with grease before installing them.

Easy job here. On a 1-10 scale, it's a 3 for me.

[mburshtain]

Just did this job the other day by using this thread as well as the thread located over on Today and it was surprisingly a breeze for me. I used materials from PJ Grady and everything was great. Some points of interest:

-purchase a 6mm LONG pin punch to get the pin out of the axle flange. Absolute key piece of equipment here. Don't substitute SAE size or you'll mess the pin up. Not a bad idea to purchase two more of the $0.50 pins just in case.

-take note of the direction that you're driving the pin out to make sure you don't lock it in place in the transmission. Avoiding problems here is super simple to do; just take note when you're doing it.

-when pulling the old seal out, just go out and purchase a seal puller if you don't have one. Makes this part sooooooo easy and fast. Totally worth $10-15 for a good one that you'll keep forever.

-don't forget to change out the o-ring once you pull the flange. You'll need a pick to get it out.

-some say to make sure the split of the pin is facing AWAY from the transmission during re-installation. The theory is that if there's an oil leak, the solid part of the pin will stop the leak rather than traveling through the split and out.

-get some 2" PVC pipe to help you drive and seat the new seal. And that seal doesn't have to be driven flush; keep a tad of the seal protruding just a wee bit.

-pack the inside of the new seals with grease before installing them.

Easy job here. On a 1-10 scale, it's a 3 for me.

Thanks for your tips.
Did you use a drive shaft sleeve?


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[kings1527]

Thanks for your tips.
Did you use a drive shaft sleeve?


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Not the speedi-sleeve that most people use. Mine had been done in the past before my ownership and speedi-sleeves were used and they were severely distorted when I did this job. Grady's is stainless and resists distortion, as well. Worth the extra money.

edit: I should say that when you order them from Grady, he has everything already installed on the flanges. Just slide the new flange on the stub axle once you get the old flange off and you're all set

[DMCMW Dave]

Not the speedi-sleeve that most people use. Mine had been done in the past before my ownership and speedi-sleeves were used and they were severely distorted when I did this job. Grady's is stainless and resists distortion, as well. Worth the extra money.

edit: I should say that when you order them from Grady, he has everything already installed on the flanges. Just slide the new flange on the stub axle once you get the old flange off and you're all set

Speedi Sleeves are stainless. They can be tricky to install correctly. The distortion is caused by improper installation.

[FABombjoy]

Speedi Sleeves are stainless. They can be tricky to install correctly. The distortion is caused by improper installation.
Yes, 1000% !!

I went through a few Speedi-sleeves before getting the technique down. The name is a misnomer as they take some time to install properly.

If the pitting is bad (it probably is) you'll want to lightly file/sand the old sealing surface to knock down the edges of the crater. I used a little Dremel flap-sander wheel on mine to prep for sleeve install.

A properly installed speedi-sleeve should have a 100% uniform appearance, completely free of distortion or "impressions" of the underlying material. If it's anything but perfect cut it off, address the problem, and install a new one.

[David T]

[QUOTE=FABombjoy;258336]Yes, 1000% !!

I went through a few Speedi-sleeves before getting the technique down. The name is a misnomer as they take some time to install properly.



I think the reason they chose that name is because it is a fast repair in contrast to other options. While it does take some "finesse" to use it, it is a cheap and fast way to save the part. It is also a more permanent solution because it is a LOT harder and tougher than the original surface.

[mburshtain]

Yes, 1000% !!

I went through a few Speedi-sleeves before getting the technique down. The name is a misnomer as they take some time to install properly.

If the pitting is bad (it probably is) you'll want to lightly file/sand the old sealing surface to knock down the edges of the crater. I used a little Dremel flap-sander wheel on mine to prep for sleeve install.

A properly installed speedi-sleeve should have a 100% uniform appearance, completely free of distortion or "impressions" of the underlying material. If it's anything but perfect cut it off, address the problem, and install a new one.

Thank you !
Where do I get the speedi-sleeve? directly from one of the vendors?

[FABombjoy]

That's probably easiest. I think the part number has been posted in the forum too.

[kings1527]

Thank you !
Where do I get the speedi-sleeve? directly from one of the vendors?

You can go with a Speedi-sleeve, install it yourself (and run the risk of not doing it correctly and it distorting) and fix it by buying more parts and trying again or even doing the whole job over again, or purchase a set already installed by Grady that’s already installed on the flange and of thicker material than a Speedi-sleeve that’s impervious to distorting. For me, this was a super simple decision, especially when referring to your original question of what materials are out there for this job.