Power Steering

[ed uding]

I like to share the new power steering unit we have.
It is a speed relate set, that start form 0 mile with max assist, and build it off to 40 mile. Thane it is all back to original. There is a special pick up adaptor between the Speedo cables, to get the right pulls to the computer. If you loos power the car work like a stock Delorean, the axe is still one piece. And the column can still be adjust in height and slide still in and out. On 31 December we did have a public test day in The Netherlands. I know the comment that we don’t neat it, but as soon you drive it you know better, it make a car a lot easier to drive in town.
The set will be for sale in the us as well.

Ed Uding
www.delorean.eu

[Bitsyncmaster]

Very cool. Looks like the unit in my 2005 Malibu. Did you build your own ECU or use an OEM unit?

[jangell]

I'm very interested in this -- without power steering, my wife can't drive the DeLorean due to nerve damage in her arms. And parallel parking is a PITA. :)

Does this mate to the steering column the same way as the original, or does it require a new shaft and U-joint? I have the one-piece shaft for DMC Parts NW (K1026DP), which also seems to be the only one that DMCH sells now... (100840SS)?

I'm also curious about the signal the computer takes for speed. My angle drive pretty much never works, so I'm building a simple digital speedometer with a hall effect sensor and a magnet on an axle hooked into a micro controller (Arduino). I figure it'll be easy enough to simulate sending pulses to the power steering computer if that's all it needs.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[opethmike]

Very cool! When will it be available?

[jawn101]

This is a great retrofit. What's the target price for those of us who aren't sure if we need or want this or not? If its reasonably cheap I'd give it a try for sure :)

[TTait]

I'm just trying to figure out if I want 1 or 2...

[Ozzie]

Another innovative product, from Ed at DMCEU. :thumbup:

[jangell]

Ignore my question about if the power steering unit mates with the existing steering shaft -- It _IS_ a steering shaft. I thought it was a rack for some reason, but looking at the pictures more closely it is clear that it's the shaft.

I'm very eager to get one of these. Thanks!

-- Joe

[stevedmc]

While I don't think I need one, I'm interested to find out if this bypasses the need for a steering column bushing. Do you have to drill through the fiberglass to make this thing fit?

[DMCMW Dave]

While I don't think I need one, I'm interested to find out if this bypasses the need for a steering column bushing. Do you have to drill through the fiberglass to make this thing fit?

It replaces the entire original column in the original location. The lower bushing will still be there as will the double-U-jointed lower column etc.

According to Ed, it is a custom engineered part, and it is not just lifted as-is out of a production car. (I'm sure it uses parts in common with other cars). It needs speed input to back off the power assist as the car goes faster. Without speed input, you get full power assist all the time and it makes the car actually hard to drive at high speed.

It is using a transducer in place of the lambda box for this input, so yes, you still need a functioning angle drive. I suppose if you have figured out an electronic replacement for the angle drive you could provide that input to the steering controller, but you'd be on your own unless the device you are using is still providing a mechanical output to the original speedometer that can be connected to the transducer.

If you were to disconnect the power to the unit completely, the car drives like a stock DeLorean. The DeLorean lower column and steering rack are not changed.

Sorry - no pricing yet, but I can say it's not cheap.

[jangell]

It is using a transducer in place of the lambda box for this input, so yes, you still need a functioning angle drive. I suppose if you have figured out an electronic replacement for the angle drive you could provide that input to the steering controller, but you'd be on your own unless the device you are using is still providing a mechanical output to the original speedometer that can be connected to the transducer.

That's pretty much what I was expecting. I had DMCCA install a cruise control unit a while back and they did something similar, inserting a pulse generator between the Lambda counter and the speedometer. Of course, with my constantly-failing angle drives, that doesn't work either at the moment. But it's easy to generate pulses from a micro controller, so I plan on just doing that. It should be simply enough to figure out what Ed's transducer is outputting and rig that up as well.

Thanks for the info!

-- Joe

[stevedmc]

Sorry - no pricing yet, but I can say it's not cheap.

It sounds like an awesome idea, but yeah, I figured it wouldn't be within my $500 budget.

[Bitsyncmaster]

If you were to disconnect the power to the unit completely, the car drives like a stock DeLorean. The DeLorean lower column and steering rack are not changed.

Sorry - no pricing yet, but I can say it's not cheap.

Just for kicks, I pulled the power from my power steering unit in my daily driver. While you can still drive it you would not want to go any distance that way. I'm guessing my car has a real low gear ratio so without the power assist your pumping iron.

[Ozzie]

Just for kicks, I pulled the power from my power steering unit in my daily driver. While you can still drive it you would not want to go any distance that way. I'm guessing my car has a real low gear ratio so without the power assist your pumping iron.

Fun experiment.

I think the reason D's are manageable w/o PS at very low speed, is because the front doesn't have the weight of an engine on top of it. On a car where a higher percentage of the weight is in front, relative to the rear, the lack of PS would be a good motivator to do more bicep and tricep curls.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Fun experiment.

I think the reason D's are manageable w/o PS at very low speed, is because the front doesn't have the weight of an engine on top of it. On a car where a higher percentage of the weight is in front, relative to the rear, the lack of PS would be a good motivator to do more bicep and tricep curls.

Your probably correct. FUN :shock: If you did not have your seat belt on, you would lift your body off the seat trying to turn the car (low MPH).

[stevedmc]

I think the reason D's are manageable w/o PS at very low speed, is because the front doesn't have the weight of an engine on top of it.

My Geo Metro doesn't have power steering either and it is very easy to drive. While the car does have an engine in the front, the engine is so light I can lift it all by myself.

In my opinion ethanol and heavy front engine cars are just another conspiracy to get people to spend more money on gas and power steering pumps.

[Rich W]

Hi Ed,

This sounds like "just what the doctor ordered" for my DeLorean Limousine.

I read all the comments so far (especially Dave Swingle's) and I think I will
want to have "full time" power steering on this vehicle, rather than speed
sensitive, due to the extra weight at all times. I doubt if the D Limousine
will ever feel "too light" in the steering, even when above 40, 50 or 60 mph.

Please forward any details you have to Dave Swingle and I will discuss it
with Dave when I am over at the DMC Midwest shop for my next visit.

Thanks,
Rich W.

[Chris Burns]

They have a Delorean in the shop with this added on if you want to check it out.

http://www.delorean.eu/sale/index.html

[DMC5180]

Might as well add Parallel Parking Assist too. :hihi2:

[jangell]

Might as well add Parallel Parking Assist too.

You know, with this power steering system, a micro controller, and few speed pickups to more accurately tell how far you're moving over a small distance, that probably wouldn't the too hard to implement... :)

-- Joe

[DMC5180]

You know, with this power steering system, a micro controller, and few speed pickups to more accurately tell how far you're moving over a small distance, that probably wouldn't the too hard to implement... :)

-- Joe

Only in an automatic maybe so you can ride the brake. Oh wait, I think you need a servo controlled brake pedal for full auto pilot control.

[jangell]

I was thinking of the more primitive parking assist where you control the speed and the car controls the steering.

Although adding a brake servo and a throttle servo would let you drive your car from your phone... ;)

-- Joe

[jawn101]

I was thinking of the more primitive parking assist where you control the speed and the car controls the steering.

Although adding a brake servo and a throttle servo would let you drive your car from your phone... ;)

-- Joe

Or with one of these.... :)
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2375/2207923167_c4d2b28f4a_o_d.jpg

[Jacko]

7988


With my 100th post on this .ORG site I offer the Delorean community my 'thought of in the middle of the night invention for power steering'.

It applies directly to the Delorean with it's light front end but I guess it would work on any car.

You know how the windshield washer squirts water on the windshield? My invention would use a similar technology to squirt water on the steering tires, wetting the road surface thereby making the tires easier to turn. I don't see why this wouldn't work. I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner.

I offer this invention free of cost and with no rights reserved. I would like to see any positive results posted here first.:Headspin::Headspin:


EDIT: ... senior member at last!

[john 05141]

Well, I am now the owner of a Delorean with a power steering!

I drove over to Ed's very early last Saturday and had this installed. It took Ed about 4 hours to put it in there. I was expecting lots of work to do when it was on the bridge, but he did all that from the floor. (I will have to take those pictures from the frame some ohter time :hihi:)It is a weird feeling because it works also when the engine is not running which is not so at daily drivers, and you do not hear anything from it (no humming or so). So it feels like the weels are not touching the ground and yet you can turn the steering wheel with one (strong) finger. You do feel a resistance of course but in a perfect way, not too hard not too extreme light.
So I took it on the road for a test drive, and I had a smile on my face the whole time. I tought it would be great to park the car, or to manouver the car, but it turns out it is a very nice asset when you drive at 30+ miles per hour because you can still feel the aid of the power steering. Above that it gradually shuts off and on the highway it feels like it always does without PS. It is very comfortable when you take turns, on roundabouts,... I think it is very comfortable. I decided to turn around and return to DMC, so naturally I was looking for a spot where I have lots of space to turn the car when I realize, I have a PS, so a small space was great to turn the car around with ease.
I am not the sporty kind of driver, but I enjoy to cruise the country side and for me it works very nice. :driving1:Even dough you can do easily without it, it makes a very nice contribution to enjoy the driving. I have a 5 speed, I think it will be even more enjoyable with an automatic. I need to do something about the hard clutch.

Negative:
Not an inexpensive extra,
Hooked up directly to the battery which I will probably change,
you might get used to it

positive:
Very fun to drive,
so much more fun to drive,
no sound or unnatural feeling from the steering wheel,
fairly quick installation time (for a power steering anyway)

[Tillsy]

Sweet - thanks for the write-up!

[sadeeky]

Sounds awesome. I want power steering!!!!

[sadeeky]

Well, I am now the owner of a Delorean with a power steering!

I drove over to Ed's very early last Saturday and had this installed. It took Ed about 4 hours to put it in there. I was expecting lots of work to do when it was on the bridge, but he did all that from the floor. (I will have to take those pictures from the frame some ohter time :hihi:)It is a weird feeling because it works also when the engine is not running which is not so at daily drivers, and you do not hear anything from it (no humming or so). So it feels like the weels are not touching the ground and yet you can turn the steering wheel with one (strong) finger. You do feel a resistance of course but in a perfect way, not too hard not too extreme light.
So I took it on the road for a test drive, and I had a smile on my face the whole time. I tought it would be great to park the car, or to manouver the car, but it turns out it is a very nice asset when you drive at 30+ miles per hour because you can still feel the aid of the power steering. Above that it gradually shuts off and on the highway it feels like it always does without PS. It is very comfortable when you take turns, on roundabouts,... I think it is very comfortable. I decided to turn around and return to DMC, so naturally I was looking for a spot where I have lots of space to turn the car when I realize, I have a PS, so a small space was great to turn the car around with ease.
I am not the sporty kind of driver, but I enjoy to cruise the country side and for me it works very nice. :driving1:Even dough you can do easily without it, it makes a very nice contribution to enjoy the driving. I have a 5 speed, I think it will be even more enjoyable with an automatic. I need to do something about the hard clutch.

Negative:
Not an inexpensive extra,
Hooked up directly to the battery which I will probably change,
you might get used to it

positive:
Very fun to drive,
so much more fun to drive,
no sound or unnatural feeling from the steering wheel,
fairly quick installation time (for a power steering anyway)


How much did it cost to install it?
and how much is the unit?

[john 05141]

I'll send you a PM. I do not want to be responsible or arguments in case there would be a price difference.
As I said not a cheap extra. + 4 hours of installation. Hourly rate will very likely be cheaper in the US compared to Europe.
I had a taxation done to the car right after, and it certainly boosted the value of the car.

I have it now for a little while, and everytime I back it out of the garage and turn the car around I enjoy this new upgrade. If I'd ever had to but another Delorean, I'll build in a new PS right away.

John

[Tillsy]

I'd be interested to know details too :)

[bigmac]

Is this project dead now?

[DMCMW Dave]

Not at all. I just installed one on my own car yesterday as a test/demo.

[jawn101]

Not at all. I just installed one on my own car yesterday as a test/demo.

How do you like it? :)

[bigmac]

What is the cost of a kit please?

[DMC5180]

Not at all. I just installed one on my own car yesterday as a test/demo.

As though you don't have your hands full with the Shop move.

A short video showing turning the wheel stop to stop with your finger would be kinda cool. :biggrin:

[john 05141]

No video can show you the comfort of this PS. It is just awesome to drive, I simply enjoy it again every time. Take your daily driver, and imagine that steering on your D, and that is about it. I still do not get used to it, it surprises me every time when I back out of the garage. It is cheaper than stage one, so it whatever you like in a car. I enjoy it so on my behalf it is worth the money.
I think you should ask Dave from DMCMW the price.

All I can say is you'll love it!!!!!

John

[Rich W]

No video can show you the comfort of this PS. It is just awesome to drive, I simply enjoy it again every time. Take your daily driver, and imagine that steering on your D, and that is about it. I still do not get used to it, it surprises me every time when I back out of the garage. It is cheaper than stage one, so it whatever you like in a car. I enjoy it so on my behalf it is worth the money.
I think you should ask Dave from DMCMW the price.

All I can say is you'll love it!!!!!

John

I stopped at DMCMW on Saturday and I got a quick preview of the Power Steering unit, which will probably see duty in the DeLorean Limo in the future.
Dave has a unique "demo setup" in his DeLorean, so you can compare the "feel" for yourself, with the electric Power Steering unit On and Off. (Neat)

Pricing...well, let's just say its not as easy on the wallet as it is to steer with the Power Steering, but it is a clean and slick setup.

Later,
Rich W.

[DMCMW Dave]

What is the cost of a kit please?

I have not quite figured it out . The cost from DMC EU in Euro is 2399 Euro. Not quite $3000, and there is some discount for no VAT BUT you add US duties and shipping. I'm guessing somewhere about $3400 by the time you get it home. Not installed. That is probably about what we will sell it for from here.

I don't plan to stock them due to the cost but can bring them in on demand. I'll be curious to see what it will cost someone in the US to order directly from DMCEU, on large items like this that may be a better (or worse) deal.

As Rich mentioned - I have it installed in my car with an on-off switch so you can actually turn the power assist off and on, on demand. It's a pretty strange effect.

[jangell]

Dang; I really want one of these, but I was hoping for something closer to the $1000 USD range. I'm afraid I won't be able to swing $3400 for quite a while. I gather this required a lot of custom work and that the small production run is what leading to that price.

I'll start saving -- Thanks!

-- Joe

[Paul J]

One of the local guys over here fitted a power steering unit to his DMC. From memory its an electric unit and came out of a small hatchback car. I think it was a Vauxhall Corsa or ford fiesta.

He has had it installed for a few years now. Ill possibly be seeing him at a meet up soon and if he doesn't mind Ill try to get some photos.

When I was last chatting I think he said the total cost was minimal. Few hundred pounds perhaps including fitting.

Its not speed sensitive but he can switch it on and off as required so just has it on for parking.

Paul

[dmcerik]

The only time I've had difficulty (minimal at best) turning the steering wheel while driving was when my tires obviously needed more air. If the tires are inflated properly I really don't see a need for power steering. Especially for $3400+. That being said, I'd love to try it. Definitely not on my list of to-do's, but I'm sure it will make other owners happy. Glad to see an option is available for them.

[DL4567]

I used to run 24 psi in the front and 28 in the rear. A few years ago increased it to 28 front and 32 rear, and found it made a noticeable improvement in ease of low-speed steering. Have had it there ever since.

[DrJeff]

I love to have a go at a power steering kit/hack but it would need to be with parts <$1000 and self-installed. At $3400 I'll just work the biceps a bit more. There does seem to be a lot of activity on the British classics/kit car front with options for aftermarket power steering.