Transmission Auto Auto Transmission Problem [Archive] - DMCTalk Forum

deloumis

01-15-2012, 08:16 PM

I have been having a problem with my auto transmission which is getting both frustrating and annoying. The car seems to be taking off in second gear, but I'm not completely sure what is going on.

I have not rigged up some test lights but instead had a partner sit in the car and hold the brake while switching gears inside the car. Standing beside the car next to the engine compartment I checked for power with a volt meter. This is what I came up with.

When we dropped down to 1, there was power to both solenoids, but the car would not move at all. Switching up to 2 keeps power on both solenoids but the car now moves, but extremely slow and with the RPMs really high. Switching up to D now shuts power off of one, now only one selenoid is getting power. The car now moves just a little faster but still takes alot of RPMs to move the car. Again the test was done with the car standing still with the brakes to hold the car from moving. The fluid level is good I checked it quite a few times to be sure.

Thanks in advance

stevedmc

01-15-2012, 08:21 PM

deloumis

01-15-2012, 08:30 PM

It sounds like a faulty auto transmission computer to me. There are plenty of vendors with replacement options. I drive a manual so I don't really have any experience with automatics. Hopefully someone will chime in with an answer soon.

Are you referring to the governor?

Oh one more small detail. In any gear, from park all the way down to 1, there is always power to one solenoid. Only 1 and 2 have power to both, the rest to one all the time.

DMC_PRIME

01-15-2012, 08:38 PM

Sounds like the Governor to me. I was having the same problem as you before I got it replaced. The car would start off in 2nd in D mode. I still had 1st when I was in 1 or 2 though....

stevedmc

01-15-2012, 08:41 PM

Are you referring to the governor?

Yep. To me if it is a fancy electric box that controls stuff, its a computer. But yeah, all the vendors call em auto transmission governors.

deloumis

01-15-2012, 08:59 PM

Sounds like the Governor to me. I was having the same problem as you before I got it replaced. The car would start off in 2nd in D mode. I still had 1st when I was in 1 or 2 though....

My concern is why will it not move when i drop it down to 1? And when i drop it to 2 it moves but extremely slow, it seems as if it is slipping. The RPMs go up but the car barely moves. In 1 I rev up but nothing happens. Does that seem like a governor problem?

Ron

01-15-2012, 09:24 PM

First, you aren't measuring whether power is getting to the solenoids -- they are fed 12v anytime the key is on. You are measuring which gets grounded. If it's not moving and in a forward gear, there should be two lights. So, if shifting while sitting still changes the lights, you governor is bad (or shift linkage is rubbing the harness, etc).

When you say, "In 1 I rev up but nothing happens", if you meant it revs in 1st as if it is in neutral while both lights are on, you could have other problems.

EDIT: Check out diagnostics G:04:03 in workshop manual! Test with it up on blocks -- The clutch paks will not take the strain of pulling in the wrong gear... they'll be toast in no time!!!

deloumis

01-15-2012, 09:31 PM

First, you aren't measuring whether power is getting to the solenoids -- they are fed 12v anytime the key is on. You are measuring which gets grounded. If it's not moving and in a forward gear, there should be two lights. So, if shifting while sitting still changes the lights, you governor is bad (or shift linkage is rubbing the harness, etc).

When you say, "In 1 I rev up but nothing happens", if you meant it revs in 1st as if it is in neutral while both lights are on, you could have other problems.

If i drop down to D, there is only one light. But if i drop to 2 or 1, then there is only 1 light. This is all done without the car moving, brake held down.

Yes when in 1 there are 2 lights but the car revs up as if it was in neutral.

Both 2 and 1 get two lights, but only moves in 2 but extremely slow.

DMCMW Dave

01-15-2012, 09:40 PM

deloumis

01-15-2012, 09:55 PM

Replace the governor, and don't drive the car until you do. It is starting out in second gear. This is very hard on the internals.

How long (how much driving) has it been like this? How is the fluid level? How is the color/smell?

I haven't drove the car at all besides down the road a few times. The car had been sitting for about 15 years when i bought it. I am still trying to get the engine running right, so i don't drive it anywhere. The only driving I do is test drives down the road, about a mile total each test drive.

The transmission had been working fine at first but one day I went to test out the car n the problems began.

Should the governor resolve all the problems I have described? Including two lights lit when in 1 but the car not moving? Another thing,one light is lit all the time even in park, neutral and reverse.

Thanks for all the replies!

DMCMW Dave

01-15-2012, 09:57 PM

Any time the car is not moving both lights should be on. If not the governor is bad. The position of the lever should not make a difference in that particular test.

I haven't drove the car at all besides down the road a few times. The car had been sitting for about 15 years when i bought it. I am still trying to get the engine running right, so i don't drive it anywhere. The only driving I do is test drives down the road, about a mile total each test drive.

The transmission had been working fine at first but one day I went to test out the car n the problems began.

Should the governor resolve all the problems I have described? Including two lights lit when in 1 but the car not moving? Another thing,one light is lit all the time even in park, neutral and reverse.

Thanks for all the replies!

stevedmc

01-15-2012, 09:59 PM

Should the governor resolve all the problems I have described?

If Dave says replace the governor, consider it gospel. I've called Dave before wanting to spend hundreds of dollars only to find out, from his advice, that I only needed a $15 part to fix my problem. You might still have other problems (that the bad governor caused) but replacing the governor is a start.

On another note, this is an excellent time for you to call up Dave and Julie at DMCMW. They have competitive pricing and ship stuff FAST.

Ron

01-15-2012, 10:05 PM

It should never do that. Something is wrong with the governor/wiring.
That is almost exactly what mine did. The vendor(s) told me that the selector switches had nothing to do with the lights changing. When I posted a table of how they acted, I was told "I repeat, ..." Let's just say I found differently and added the info to the schematics available at the time (in resource section here) and don't listen to them! The switches send "requests" to the governor. If it is bad, the lights mean little to nothing (shorts in the circuitry). Check both of your harnesses very well for burns or pinches for the source. It may just be age, but I can't think of anything else that could possibly make one light go off with it sitting still other than the GC.

Since it revs freely in 1st, you need to run through ALL the diagnostics (as above). Again, don't load the trans until you figure it out or you will surely cause internal damage to the clutches!

deloumis

01-15-2012, 10:30 PM

Ron

01-15-2012, 10:42 PM

Be sure to check out Jeff Angwin's unit when shopping...you have to do a little mod on the harness but he has good customer service and lifetime warranty.

Or if you can fix yours for <$25 if your PC board is ok and you are good with a soldering iron in most cases.

deloumis

01-15-2012, 10:52 PM

Ron

01-15-2012, 10:57 PM

Usually 2 capacitors, 2 transistors (maybe), all of the soldering joints (crappy factory manufacturing), and, a couple of upgrade parts. Have you read this thread?
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?350-Automatic-Transmission-Governor

FWIW- Your's is a good canidate since the harness isn't damaged (often fries the board).

WelmoedJ

01-16-2012, 04:43 AM

As Dave pointed out, it probably is the electronics belonging to the automatic gearbox.
This electronic part is called Governor Computer (GC).
It arranges switching between gears.
Checking the proper operation is done on the "black box" at the firewall, in the round part.
The middle 3 pins be used to check operation (there is sufficient info on how to do that).
In first gear (or D in first gear mode) both solenoids are powered, in second gear (D also in second gear mode) only one solenoid is powerd and in 3 (only in D) no solenoids are powered.

If you still have the original, unmodified GC it most likely is time to work on that yellowish box at the passenger side of the gearbox.
Best way is to disconnect the cables at the black box and at the gearbox.
This allows you to take the entire contraption of off the car, easier to work on.
Open the GC by lifting the lid after straightening the edges; disconnect the three connections between circuitboard edge and fixed edge and carefully take the two circuit board out of the casing.
Now you can fold them away from each other and start replacing the elcos at the print with the capacitors.
Use tantalum capacitors 4.7 µF/35V and 10 µF/35V.
While in there it is a solid idea to also replace the power transistors (now TIP42C PNP) and the belonging resistors (470 Ohm/2Watt).
Seal the unit when done and re-install the GC.

Be carefull while routing the cables to the black box, making sure they do not touch the crossover pipie of the exhaust system.
BTW: your problems may also be caused by the cables' insulation being burned by the exhaust causing a circuit short, however since you mentioned having voltage at the solenoids, your problem most likely is as described afore.

After having performed these changes and there are no other problems with the gearbox you may find having again a very swift and responsive gearbox.

I have attached a circuit you can install in the car giving you the shifting status of the gearbox at all times.
7772

Elvis

01-16-2012, 05:59 PM

Welmoed's advice is perfect - just leave the resistors where they are and resolder EVERYTHING !!!!!

I'm not kidding, scratch off the yellowish paint and resolder every single solder joint !

after having repaired about two dozens of them I can tell you I never have seen a
bad resistor, but all of them had bad solder joints.

if you have the parts and the tools it's a ~4 hour job for me plus uninstalling and reinstalling...
parts are cheap. but you need some electronics knowledge to repair and test it.

BUT
using 1 and 2 on the shifter should work as it moves valves and doesn't play with the electronics at all. To my knowledge only in "D" the governor is working.

by the way - a computer usually is something digital. this thing is good old analogue electronics :-)

Ron

01-16-2012, 07:22 PM

using 1 and 2 on the shifter should work as it moves valves and doesn't play with the electronics at all. To my knowledge only in "D" the governor is working.Yes the valve body plays its part, but it has to have fluid pressure(s) -- The solenoid valves, in part, control what gets pressure:
When you put the selector in 2nd, S2 grounds SolB. This overrides the governor and "forces" a downshift to 2nd (or prevents it from going into 3rd if it is not in 3rd already), because both solenoids are fed power at all times "waiting" on the governor (or in SolB's case, S2) to ground it.
When you put the selection in ANY gear and hold the throttle down, the WOT switch grounds the junction between D2 and D3, "requesting" a down shift, and the governor "decides" if it is safe to do so.

Look at the updated schematic and you'll see it from what I added I'm sure....or just think about why it don't drop right into 1st when you select 1st until you slow down, or, what's going on when you pull the fuse (esp. in 1st or 2nd)...the governor!
Or, what do I have wrong here?

I suggest all this needs to be moved to the GC thread.

deloumis

01-16-2012, 07:40 PM

BUT
using 1 and 2 on the shifter should work as it moves valves and doesn't play with the electronics at all. To my knowledge only in "D" the governor is working.

by the way - a computer usually is something digital. this thing is good old analogue electronics :-)

After replacing/fixing my governor, what other problems might there be? Dropping down to 1 or2 SHOULD still move the car, but the car does not move in 1 and barely moves in 2. What can be causing that?

Ron

01-16-2012, 07:57 PM

Remove fuse #13, select 1st, and tell us what it does.

deloumis

01-16-2012, 08:31 PM

Remove fuse #13, select 1st, and tell us what it does.

Pulled fuse #13 and dropped down to 1.
Car now moves but still seems to be in 2nd gear.
I move the gear selector to 2 the car still moves but transmission does not shift. I can move from 1 to 2 with no change. Transmission will only shift from 2 to D or vice versa.

Ron

01-16-2012, 08:44 PM

Pulled fuse #13 and dropped down to 1.
Car now moves but still seems to be in 2nd gear.
I move the gear selector to 2 the car still moves but transmission does not shift. I can move from 1 to 2 with no change. Transmission will only shift from 2 to D or vice versa.
Fuse #13 is for the governor and only the governor. Since pulling the fuse changed how it acts, now you know the governor has a problem. Since it did it in 1st, you know the electronics have an effect in 1st.
I rest my case LOL!

You should now park the car and replace/repair the governor. You need to do this before you can properly diagnose any other problems with the tranny (odds are there are none) -- Good luck!!!

deloumis

01-16-2012, 08:52 PM

Fuse #13 is for the governor and only the governor. Since pulling the fuse changed how it acts, now you know the governor has a problem. Since it did it in 1st, you know the electronics have an effect in 1st.
I rest my case LOL!

You should now park the car and replace/repair the governor. You need to do this before you can properly diagnose any other problems with the tranny (odds are there are none) -- Good luck!!!

Thanks for all the replies, and yes Ron I will keep the car parked until I repair the governor.

Elvis

01-17-2012, 02:16 AM

Fuse #13 is for the governor and only the governor. Since pulling the fuse changed how it acts, now you know the governor has a problem. Since it did it in 1st, you know the electronics have an effect in 1st.

Ron,
the governor only works in D, so how would it be responsible in 1st and 2nd ?

Hey deloumis, is there really a difference between fuse in and fuse out ?

Most likely the governor needs a tune-up anyways, but why opening the tranny oil pan twice ?

deloumis

01-17-2012, 03:37 AM

Ron,
the governor only works in D, so how would it be responsible in 1st and 2nd ?

Hey deloumis, is there really a difference between fuse in and fuse out ?

Most likely the governor needs a tune-up anyways, but why opening the tranny oil pan twice ?

With fuse in, I would drop down to 1 and no movement what so ever (as if it were in neutral). Selecting 2 would move the car, but really slow. With it in D, it would accelerate just a bit faster.
Fuse out, all the same but now in 1 car moves and reacts just as if it were in 2.

I plan on pulling out and inspecting

WelmoedJ

01-17-2012, 04:17 AM

With fuse in, I would drop down to 1 and no movement what so ever (as if it were in neutral). Selecting 2 would move the car, but really slow. With it in D, it would accelerate just a bit faster.
Fuse out, all the same but now in 1 car moves and reacts just as if it were in 2.

I plan on pulling out and inspecting

You must omit comparing manual shifting (1 and 2) to auto shifting (D).
Both work different!
As has been said previously, D is controlled by the GC. If the GC has a defect it depends on the parts that are defect what you will notice in shifting.
My previous D behaved like I was an old lady driving :(
Replacing only the capacitors already made the car drive better and shift like intended.
Mind that it's not only mechanical and electronical parts that make up the auto tranny: it's also vacuum (vacuum regulator).
By all means, use the shop manual to improve you knowlegde of the gearbox's operation and the parts that make up for it's working environment.

FYI: I have a drawing - attached - that shows the electrical connections between "black box", GC and gearbox. This may help you while testing and disassembling and re-assembling.
It's not my work, but somebody on the forum, whose name I'm unaware of.
-7801

Ron

01-17-2012, 10:45 AM

Ron,
the governor only works in D, so how would it be responsible in 1st and 2nd ?
I don't see that as the case. If it wasn't responsible ("contributes") in 2nd, what component makes it shift from 1st to 2nd when 2nd is selected at stop and you pull off? A better question might be, why does it start off in 1st when 2nd is selected?

I think I see what you are thinking?- The "double switch" you mentioned earlier is actually two "double switches" (two single pole double throw). The drawing Welmoed posted is wrong. The below is snipped from the corrections I added to the project the Smurfs had going (including corrections I found using Miller's and your schematics along with my own findings) and the truth table Jeff Angwin made reflecting the changes and operation. [All of this is in the GC resource thread]
7805 7804

The valve body is not a "manual" valve body. You can not separate the the hydraulic and electronic controls if the solenoids control fluid/pressure going to/from the valve body or other parts of a trans. (If it had a manual valve body, it would ALWAYS take the gear selected...immediately...even if you put it in 1st or Reverse at 88MPH ;-)
I don't understand "?resistance?" to the idea when pulling the fuse or, as we all know, (some) governor problems cause the trans to go to 3rd [not 2nd as many say....FWIW, I think this is due to the puny clutch pak burning up when people keep driving and that clutch pack X can be engaged even when not in gear X...this trick is what makes autos work w/o being larger than the engine.]
All electrical parts concerning the trans (except reverse lights and start inhibit selector switches) are part of the governor control -- If pulling its fuse or toasting it causes it to act differently when in 1st or 2nd, it is "responsible" any way you look at it, no???

You must omit comparing manual shifting (1 and 2) to auto shifting (D).
Both work different!
As has been said previously, D is controlled by the GC. If the GC has a defect it depends on the parts that are defect what you will notice in shifting.
My previous D behaved like I was an old lady driving :(
Replacing only the capacitors already made the car drive better and shift like intended.
Mind that it's not only mechanical and electronical parts that make up the auto tranny: it's also vacuum (vacuum regulator).
By all means, use the shop manual to improve you knowlegde of the gearbox's operation and the parts that make up for it's working environment.

FYI: I have a drawing - attached - that shows the electrical connections between "black box", GC and gearbox. This may help you while testing and disassembling and re-assembling.
It's not my work, but somebody on the forum, whose name I'm unaware of.
-7801Yes, yes, a 1000 times yes (except for the drawing ;-)

WelmoedJ

01-17-2012, 11:15 AM

Yes, yes, a 1000 times yes (except for the drawing ;-)

Since I have a manual now, I have not reviewed/studied the drawing.
I gladly accept your info and make sure it goes with the drawing if needed.
Thanks for bringing that flaw to my attention.

Ron

01-17-2012, 01:00 PM

NP! ...just trying to give back.

deloumis

01-17-2012, 02:41 PM

I have taken off the governor, and replaced two resistors and two transistors, but none of the solder looked bad so i put it all back together like that. What chances are there of me repairing if I pull it off again and resolder everything? I plan on doing it, but would hate to waste transmission fluid if I don't do to correctly again. Maybe some help on what to check once it's off?

Ron

01-17-2012, 03:42 PM

You can save removing the pan (and most of the fluid) -- Remove the GC harness w/o removing the switch harness by removing the 3 brass fasteners on the black block mounted on the firewall. DO NOT disturb the other two (the ones with a wide space between them, they are molded in and will break it.)

If your capacitors look like these they are bad. Note at the ends the black part has been pushed out. (These are ~extreme.) You can't tell by looking at them.
7806
You should replace the capacitors no matter what. (Yours are "dried out" by now if original.)

You should re-solder everything no matter what.

(The best advice is for you to slow down, reread the advice we've given you. And at least follow the things like the two steps above which everyone agrees on. :wink:)

So, you put it back and it acts exactly the same?
What did the bottom of the pan have in/on it?
Were the two resistors and two transistors bad?
Do you have a meter and know how to check the components?

Elvis

01-17-2012, 06:07 PM

I don't see that as the case. If it wasn't responsible ("contributes") in 2nd, what component makes it shift from 1st to 2nd when 2nd is selected at stop and you pull off? A better question might be, why does it start off in 1st when 2nd is selected?

OK you must be right - the GC must be working in 2 and D, but is limited in its operation somehow.
I wish I had such a tranny here to study it. All I have here are the wires and electrical stuff.

deloumis

01-17-2012, 06:11 PM

My board doesn't look like the one you posted. If I knew how to post a picture, I would.

Elvis

01-17-2012, 06:17 PM

so how does it look then ?

pics can be added when replying here and scrolling down to attachments.

or using websites like:
http://imageshack.us/
and post the link here.

deloumis

01-17-2012, 07:32 PM

http://dmctalk.org/asset.php?fid=6532&uid=917&d=1326846579

deloumis

01-17-2012, 07:38 PM

7809

Ron

01-17-2012, 09:07 PM

You should really use the board(s) in the GC resource thread, post #1, they are like yours (with a few different component manufacturers which don't matter...they just look different) and have all of the components labeled for reference).

Ron

01-20-2012, 05:22 AM

I think I see what you are thinking?- The "double switch" you mentioned earlier is actually two "double switches" (two single pole double throw).
The above is the wrong name for these switches, but don't ask me what is correct because I can't find it and have settled on "specialty switch(es)". It doesn't matter WRT the way I drew them in the schematic, BUT the name is misleading if you are testing the switches themselves.
Note, I didn't break the switches open like I did the black block because they were good, but this is what must be inside:
Each of the two switches S1 and S2 have two "push button/spring loaded slider" type switches, one normally open and one normally closed, ganged together. BUT, it is not as simple as one closes when the other opens. [Overall, this would give us two positions for two switches, so 2^2 = 4 unique combinations, but as reflected in the truth table we need at least 5.] Their position is determined by an eccentric cam controlled by the shift selector. As the selector is moved, one will conduct, then neither, then the other. This gives us 3^2 = 9 unique combinations (with 9-5 = 4 unused/undefined).

WelmoedJ

01-20-2012, 07:11 AM

Would you all be happy with the below picture of both circuit boards of the GC.
Saves a lot of work.

78607861

Ron

01-20-2012, 11:37 AM

Would you all be happy with the below picture of both circuit boards of the GC.
Hey! So that's where the pics came from... Your boards?
I didn't have a good camera at the time, so I snatched that exact pic from somewhere and used it/them to label the component sides in the GC thread (post 1).

Cool Beans -- Now we have the other side. :thumbup2:

=========

I haven't worked it out using the circuit, but judging by the way my D acts, I'm thinking the truth table should be changed from, "Switch 1B Force First Gear (Always energize Solenoid B)" to "Switch 1B, Request First Gear (Always energize Sol B. Energize Solenoid A when safe)".
What do you guys think? ...Jeff?

deloumis

01-20-2012, 11:44 AM

I currently have the GC out. I'm making sure all the solder points are fine. Any tips or suggestions before reinstalling? I have read over the GC thread but just wish to finally have my tranny working properly.

Ron

01-20-2012, 12:03 PM

You haven't mentioned finding the culprit....

deloumis

01-20-2012, 12:12 PM

You haven't mentioned finding the culprit....

I wish I could.. the only possibility is the transistor I soldered on might have had two points touching. I completely cleaned and resoldered it, along with everything else. The GC is going back in now. If It doesn't work this time, I might just have to consider ordering a new unit.

deloumis

01-20-2012, 12:41 PM

WelmoedJ

01-20-2012, 01:22 PM

Hey! So that's where the pics came from... Your boards?
I didn't have a good camera at the time, so I snatched that exact pic from somewhere and used it/them to label the component sides in the GC thread (post 1).

Cool Beans -- Now we have the other side. :thumbup2:

=========

No, not mine. I own a manual. Had an auto before that one.
Did some rebuilding work on mine and other GCs.
I got this one that didn't work at all, electrical wires were burnt locally (the exhaust pipe).
So I took the time to first take it entirely apart (except for the stuff on the boards.
Then made the pictures and finally started rebuilding.

As I mentioned previously I used 2W resistors instead of the original 1W (to better handle dissipation).

WelmoedJ

01-20-2012, 01:40 PM

Well the problem remains. I removed the GC today, resoldered and inspected for visible problems. I threw it back on and the transmission problems remain. Now its a little odd..

When in D, no lights. Car moves but still does not the way it should, but still better than in 1 or 2.

When in 1 or 2, 1 light but transmission feels as if it is slipping. The car will slowly move with the RPMs high.

- Did you check the GC cable to the throttle spool for proper operation (± 3mm play)?

- While in the GC did you clean (strip) the boards of the protecting coating so you could inspect all soldering connections and traces?
Many a board had broken traces or slightly visible broken soldering connections.

- Did you entirely remove the solder from the connections for transistors, resistors and capacitors before installing the new stuff?

- Did you already replace the 2 capacitors with tantalum as adviced?

- Did you not break the tiny wires from the GC's board bridge to the generator (under the U shaped connectors in the plastic case)?

- Did you re-install the 3 wire bridges from circuit boards to the U shaped connectors of the plastic case?

- There is also an advice to solder a .1 µF capacitor across pins 1 and 4 of each of the ICs (kind of electric spark extinguisher).
I've done that on all boards I rebuilt. No problems ever after.

- Have you tested the proper operation of the GC's generator at the 3 pins? Generator axle installed?
If that generator fails, you won't have much shifting going on either. IIRC the middel pin is GND, the other two carry voltage signals.

Dangermouse

01-20-2012, 02:06 PM

deloumis

01-20-2012, 02:42 PM

- Did you check the GC cable to the throttle spool for proper operation (± 3mm play)?

- While in the GC did you clean (strip) the boards of the protecting coating so you could inspect all soldering connections and traces?
Many a board had broken traces or slightly visible broken soldering connections.

- Did you entirely remove the solder from the connections for transistors, resistors and capacitors before installing the new stuff?

- Did you already replace the 2 capacitors with tantalum as adviced?

- Did you not break the tiny wires from the GC's board bridge to the generator (under the U shaped connectors in the plastic case)?

- Did you re-install the 3 wire bridges from circuit boards to the U shaped connectors of the plastic case?

- There is also an advice to solder a .1 µF capacitor across pins 1 and 4 of each of the ICs (kind of electric spark extinguisher).
I've done that on all boards I rebuilt. No problems ever after.

- Have you tested the proper operation of the GC's generator at the 3 pins? Generator axle installed?
If that generator fails, you won't have much shifting going on either. IIRC the middel pin is GND, the other two carry voltage signals.
I did not strip it of the coating. How is the best way to do this? I did completely remove the solder.

The capacitors I did not replace, I thought I had bought the wrong ones.

None of the wires were broken, and yes I did reconnect.

-There is also an advice to solder a .1 µF capacitor across pins 1 and 4 of each of the ICs (kind of electric spark extinguisher).
I've done that on all boards I rebuilt. No problems ever after.-

I did not do this, I had taken apart the GC and attempted to fix it BEFORE I posted on here.

-Have you tested the proper operation of the GC's generator at the 3 pins? Generator axle installed?
If that generator fails, you won't have much shifting going on either. IIRC the middel pin is GND, the other two carry voltage signals.-

No I did not, how would I test this?

I am going to remove the GC one more time, this time I will replace a few components again. One question I have, I bought the 2 transistors but it says to replace them with TIP42C. The ones I bought say on the bag TIP42 but on the transistor itself it says TIP42G. Would this work or is it a completely different type?

deloumis

01-20-2012, 03:12 PM

Sounds like mine when the filter was plugged.

What does the fluid smell/feel like?

Fluid looks fine, but I have drained it and replaced it twice. Once when I dropped the oil pan to inspect/clean filter. The second time I dropped the oil pan to remove GC completely.

Dangermouse

01-20-2012, 03:28 PM

Might be worth checking it again after you thought it was slipping.

Elvis

01-20-2012, 06:54 PM

David T

01-20-2012, 09:54 PM

If the transmission is slipping, nothing you do to the governor is going to help. Get a pressure gauge on it and check the line pressure. You CANNOT properly inspect the filter unless you cut it apart. If you do cut it apart, you can clean it and reassemble it, there is a procedure for doing that. Refer to G:05:03 for checking line pressure. Do NOT drive on a slipping transmission, you will quickly destroy the clutch packs necessitating a rebuild. Also be sure to follow the level checking procedure as outlined on G:04:02. If the fluid feels grittty or smells burnt and/or there is a lot of friction materiel in the pan it may be too late. Shiny metal flakes that are not brass/bronze colored is also a bad sign.
David Teitelbaum

Ron

01-20-2012, 11:15 PM

One question I have, I bought the 2 transistors but it says to replace them with TIP42C. The ones I bought say on the bag TIP42 but on the transistor itself it says TIP42G. Would this work or is it a completely different type?
Same type but probably wrong rate...

The G means it is lead free. And since there is no other letter (Normally rated with: blank, A,...,C) you have to look on the package. It's probably the lowest rated.
You want the highest since you're using them to control solenoid coils, which induce spike voltages.

FYI- The G means it is lead free.
The 2 tells the type: 1 = NPN, 2 = PNP.
None or A thru C is Collector−Emitter Voltages (Max):

TIP42 ....40Vdc (or refer to rating on package)
TIP42A...60Vdc
TIP42B...80Vdc
TIP42C..100Vdc

Usually, the C has a Power Max rate of 65W, the others only 2W! (always check)

David T

01-21-2012, 12:40 PM

If you got both of the lights to go on and off at all the transistors are not blown. When they fail you lose all control of each solenoid. The fact that they are still switching means they are not shorted or open. Your problems are either bad solder joints and/or blown capacitors. Replace the caps and resolder ALL of the solder joints, especially the ones terminating the ribbon cables. Non of this will mean much if the transmission is still slipping.
David Teitelbaum

deloumis

01-21-2012, 05:24 PM

Just want to be sure, the two gold cylinders in the picture are the capacitors? I bought 2 capacitors which say 0.1 uF Metalized-Film Capacitor. Do I replace with these? Is that correct? I didn't want to do it if I wasn't 100% sure. Correct me if im wrong please. I am pretty close to finishing up.
7877

Ron

01-21-2012, 07:01 PM

Yes they are the capitors that usually go bad but you have the wrong ones to replace them!

You need a 10uF and a 4.7uF, both Tantalum. Note yours say 10UF and 4R7UF, respectively.
Radio Shack should have them in strock...It's OK if they look nothing like yours or any of the pics (as long as they fit in the case).

You need to pay close attention to the markings 1 UF = 1000 NF.
FWIW- You can use one of the two you have to replace the capacitor next to the ribbon cable (Upper left edge in you pic. In the GC thread, it's labeled C1, and much larger. Notice that the parts list shows C1 as "100nF" and 100/1000 = 1/10 or 0.1uF )

Ron

01-21-2012, 07:28 PM

If you got both of the lights to go on and off at all the transistors are not blown. Actually, that's only true if it is in Drive.

deloumis

01-21-2012, 09:08 PM

I have 2 more, one says 10uF 63v and the other says 4.7uF 63v

Are those the correct capacitors? And in place of which one do they go?

Ron

01-21-2012, 09:13 PM

I have 2 more, one says 10uF 63v and the other says 4.7uF 63v

Are those the correct capacitors? And in place of which one do they go?

Yes.
Note yours say 10UF and 4R7UF, respectively.
.

deloumis

01-21-2012, 09:45 PM

Thanks!

It's all finally done! Every single part resoldered, I began by completely removing all the solder, then soldering all over again. 3 capacitors replaced as you mentioned, along with 2 transistors (TIP42C). I also replaced a few other small components. Everything is put together now, just waiting to throw the GC back onto the D, and hope it turns out fine!

Thanks to everyone that replied. I will let y'all know how it goes!

lazabby

01-22-2012, 09:12 AM

What kind of sealant do you use to seal the CG into place?

Ron

01-22-2012, 10:25 AM

I used High Temp RTV Black.

FWIW-I also spent a little time bending/adjusting the TIP42Cs so that the heat-sinks would press flat on the aluminum 'lid' (with a dab heat-sink paste applied just before final assembly).

deloumis

01-22-2012, 04:07 PM

deloumis

01-22-2012, 05:30 PM

Dangermouse

01-22-2012, 05:50 PM

Well my transmission problem has been fixed, well sort of. I finished it tried out the car and what do you know, first gear! I went back to check the transmission fluid, all was fine. I got back in to go for a test drive, and no first once again. I shut the car off. Start her back up, and first once again. I reverse to back out and go for a test drive, first is gone again!

I'm going to drop the oil pan and check the internal wiring. Any other suggestions?

Dont mean to sound like a broken record but that sounds just like mine with the plugged filter. Current DMCH advice is to remove the filter completely and flush the fluid every 7500 miles instead.

Before you try any more investigative wiring/soldering, take the filter out, put the pan back on and refill and see what happens.

deloumis

01-22-2012, 06:07 PM

Dont mean to sound like a broken record but that sounds just like mine with the plugged filter. Current DMCH advice is to remove the filter completely and flush the fluid every 7500 miles instead.

Before you try any more investigative wiring/soldering, take the filter out, put the pan back on and refill and see what happens.

My filter has been removed already the first time I dropped the oil pan. I dropped it again just now and found shavings in there. I will remove the valve body and completely clean it out, clean out the oil pan and re-install. Hopefully that solves the problem.

David T

01-22-2012, 10:02 PM

Get or build a light box and watch it as you drive. If you do not have both lights on when the car is in drive and not moving you will not get 1st gear. If you do have both lights on and you still do not have 1st then the problem is not the shift computer but one of the following:
Damaged wiring harness
Bad connection
Bad solenoid
Problem in the valve body
If it is intermittent is is more likely an electrical problem. Especially if it appears to be affected by temperature.
David Teitelbaum

deloumis

01-23-2012, 09:41 AM

David T

01-23-2012, 09:54 AM

Ron

01-23-2012, 12:35 PM

On the GC thread, it says:

"1) 0.1uF (microfarad) decoupling capacitors across Op-Amp power pins (Vs+, Vs-)."

Can someone point this out for me? I have no clue where to put them at. I just need to know where exactly to put them.
The DataSheet for the Op-Amps are in Post 1 of the GC thread. From Page 4:

7882

Notice the notch (top center in pic) for orientation, put caps across pins 1 and 4. (Mount them on the back side of the board.)

==========

These will not solve your problem. I agree with David here, skip them (for now anyway).

Elvis

01-23-2012, 01:08 PM

No need to listen to me and spend 2 minutes doing a simple an logical test.

:Headspin:

Bitsyncmaster

01-23-2012, 01:19 PM

I would not bother with the spike suppressors. There are so many cars out there that don't have them and we do not see a lot of problems even though they should have them. The big problems appear to be the two large caps that blow up and cold solder joints. If the wiring harness gets damaged you can damage the switching transistors.
David Teitelbaum

The one I fixed had those two blown caps but that did not cause the problem. The problem was a broken solder joint that you would only find doing a point to point ohm meter test (or bench testing with equipment).

deloumis

01-23-2012, 11:39 PM

I now have 1st gear, but seem to not have 3rd. My car will take off in 1st and shift to 2nd but not 3rd. Any ideas on what can be causing it?

Ron

01-23-2012, 11:50 PM

What do your test lights do now?
What happens if you pull fuse 13?

deloumis

01-24-2012, 12:00 AM

What do your test lights do now?
What happens if you pull fuse 13?

I just got what I need to make the test lights. I will make them tomorrow.

I haven't tries, I will try tonight and get back.

LEVY

01-24-2012, 10:02 AM

Your car barely moved before you started working on the governor.

Now, after you repaired the governor, you have a strong first and second.

The circuit boards passed your daddy's Q.C.

Listen to your dad son, the only thing not checked by dad was the very last solders to the wiring harness.

By the way, you did an excellent job but double check those weak points one more time.

LEVY

I now have 1st gear, but seem to not have 3rd. My car will take off in 1st and shift to 2nd but not 3rd. Any ideas on what can be causing it?

Ron

01-24-2012, 10:45 AM

The circuit boards passed your daddy's Q.C.
...
Listen to your dad son, the only thing not checked by dad was the very last solders to the wiring harness.
LEVY
As interesting as it has been, do we want to know the story behind the scenes here? :devil:

Dangermouse

01-24-2012, 10:53 AM

As interesting as it has been, do we want to know the story behind the scenes here? :devil:

Levy is actually deloumis's father.

Elvis

01-24-2012, 11:13 AM

wow now that's good news.

one possibility is - if the magnet in the "alternator" is moved too far out - the throttle
wire is pulled too far - it will shift up very late at high rpms.

get those LED or bulbs on the connector to see what's going on.

quick test - with the LEDs (bulbs may react too slow) connected and the governor
uninstalled but still on the car:

turn the key so that the engine is off but the governor gets power (LEDs on)
twist the shaft of the alternator
at least on has to turn off and when twisting faster - both have to turn off.

If it does - good sign.
if it doesn't - time to fix it again and test it on the bench.

If you have the possibility to do some electrical tests - I can get you details.

you need two power supplies or a 12V battery and one adjustable power supply from
0 to 10V (low current is OK)
This has to be done on the bench as the alternator must be unsoldered.

let me know and I'll get you more details.... gotta get back to work :-(

LEVY

01-24-2012, 11:48 AM

100% True!

Deloumis took over, that is his car and he is working on it, I just give him a little bit of advice when needed.

People of this forum are giving him even better advice and he is learning very quick.

Something weird, I still don't get it.

Why car will not move with a faulty governor? I would think it will not shift but not moving?

This vehicle was acting up very bad, no first. Now, according to Deloumis it has a very strong first and second, my guess is a bad solder, he soldered the circuit boards under the vehicle.

He took his D to fuel it up last night, he called me and told me that he had a hard time fueling, I asked why and he told me that people keep taking pictures! :)

Thank's to everyone helping my son!

Levy

Levy is actually deloumis's father.

Elvis

01-24-2012, 12:32 PM

Sorry guys, you can't do that while the governor ist still under the car.

It takes me about 4 hours spread on 2-3 days to do this job right. This means just the
electronics, I have never worked on an automatic tranny myself. I just repaired
about two dozens governors - and learned with each one.

you need to scratch off the old yellowish paint on the solder joints.
If you don't, then it looks like soldered but very often it is not !!!

the way you're fixing it I think is called "quick and dirty".

for a good work you have to work on it on the bench and you have to test it
before reinstallation.
and protect the PCBs from moisture and vibrations....

LEVY

01-24-2012, 12:51 PM

No,

The circuit boards were repaired off the vehicle, cleaned, soldered and checked. They look very good, but then Deloumis installed those CB's while governor still attached to the vehicle, he raised the vehicle high enough to work comfortably, my only concern is when he soldered the wires to the circuit boards maybe the one that controls the third gear was not properly attached.

Levy.

Sorry guys, you can't do that while the governor ist still under the car.

It takes me about 4 hours spread on 2-3 days to do this job right. This means just the
electronics, I have never worked on an automatic tranny myself. I just repaired
about two dozens governors - and learned with each one.

you need to scratch off the old yellowish paint on the solder joints.
If you don't, then it looks like soldered but very often it is not !!!

the way you're fixing it I think is called "quick and dirty".

for a good work you have to work on it on the bench and you have to test it
before reinstallation.
and protect the PCBs from moisture and vibrations....

Ron

01-24-2012, 01:33 PM

Levy is actually deloumis's father.
Wheeeeeew....avoided that train wreck :biggrin:

Something weird, I still don't get it.
Why car will not move with a faulty governor? I would think it will not shift but not moving?What you may be missing is that the light's can "lie" when something is wrong. The solenoids are powered at all times. The governor or selector switch grounds them to activate them. Each test light is also powered and wired directly to its solenoids' ground (ie there are no components to pass through...but the wire itself AND BOARD TRACES have to be good). When ON, they only tell you that a solenoid is supposed to be (or is) grounded at that instant. It is possible for a short in the harness, switch box, or the GC (including a 'malfunction') to ground the terminal and thus turn on the light. This is one way you can see how one light (maybe the wrong one), or even both lights, can say it is in a particular gear when it is not. (eg two lights say it's in 1st when it is in 3rd (similar to pulling the fuse). Another way(which don't seem to be the case here) is if the solenoid or valve it controls is bad and don't seal (or dump, as in this case IIRC) and do its job.
Bottom line- The GC and solenoids are only part of everything going on that shifts the trans, and the lights can lie to boot -- If everything is not correct, it's little diffferent than a bad valve body or sticking a manual in high gear and trying to pull off from a dead stop -- gas and clutch(es) burning, but you ain't a movin'!

==========

+1 Elvis
(...if all else fails, there are always left over LN4007s and a "voltage ladder" ;-)

deloumis

01-24-2012, 02:51 PM

The only solder point I'm iffy about is the middle wire from the 3 that go from the circuit board to the plastic case. The last time I pulled out the circuit board, while I was heating up the solder to pull off the wire, the solder along with the strip on the case came off. I scratched at it further down to get access to a place to solder, which then I soldered a piece of wire, the attached the circuit board. It may be possible that I didn't solder it too good.

Either way I will wait until tomorrow and have my dad (Levy) help me check it out. I'm not sure if that wore can be the cause of my current problem, but i will look into it.

propony

01-24-2012, 03:46 PM

Ok, a little off topic, but... has anyone opened up the circuit board portion of the GC and found gear oil in there? I was having trouble last fall, so I stored the car till now. I am not driving it now, but I started taking the GC out, and opened it up, and was a little surprised to find gear oil inside. Is this common? Is it correctable?
Thanks,
Curt

Elvis

01-24-2012, 04:47 PM

well that's not common, but after 30 years...

how much oil is in there ? 1-2 drops ? OK. more ? hm.

the aluminum lid is sealed, the hole is sealed, there should be that white seal between
the housing and the part that can be puleld out with the wire on it,
then the PCB is coated to protect it from moisture and to glue the devices on the PCBs
to reduce forces from the vibrations...to protect the solder connections... :-)

propony

01-24-2012, 05:06 PM

WelmoedJ

01-25-2012, 04:15 AM

It was not flooded or full, but more than a few drops. This is the second time I have had this open, but the first time I never had any oil. The gear oil must come through the unit somehow? Is there an "o" ring inside? I couldn't have overfilled the differential could I?
Curt

The rotating axle of the generator of this GC has a seal.
It could be leaking due to aging, though I have never found traces of oil in the GCs I opened.

But then again, there is no actual "open" connection between the circuit board area and the generator.
Only in the small area where the wires from the generator run to the circuit board bridges there could be a leak.
However in such a case the sealant (a whitish plastic like stuff) must have cracks in the recess.

David T

01-25-2012, 10:21 AM

The light box doesn't "lie", it can only tell you what the shift computer is trying to command the transmission to do. There are many links in the "chain" and they all must be there and work correctly for the whole system to function. If the light box is lighting the appropriate lights at the appropriate times you have to look further for the problem than the shift computer. At least with using the light box you can start to eliminate certain things as to the cause of the problem. If the lights are NOT working as they should then you know where to start your troubleshooting. As with any diagnostic tool you must interpret the results and understand what the information is trying to tell you. Incandescent bulbs are fine. In fact, they even add a small load (as opposed to LED's) so if you have a problem they may actually help to expose it. They will also function over a broader range of voltage and are immune to polarity.
David Teitelbaum

Ron

01-25-2012, 12:40 PM

The light box doesn't "lie", it can only tell you what the shift computer is trying to command the transmission to do.David, David, it seems you can't (or won't) get it through your guru head about the ancient misconceptions of the selector switch functions, explain this- If you pinch the gray wire going to Sol B in half, say under a bolt, and the end going to the black block only is grounded. The GC will be unaffected since that wire was a dead end anyway -- But the light will always be on since YOU grounded it?

The "light box" tells you when ANYTHING grounds one of the two terminals.

David T

01-25-2012, 02:28 PM

As I am trying to say, the light box can't tell you everything. Before even starting you should do a through visual inspection during which you should catch a problem like that (maybe). I often find it very hard to find my own mistakes but much easier to find someone else's !!!!!!!!!!!! There are too many failure modes to create a fault tree for every one of them. The idea here is to try to isolate the problem to a particular part, not the exact problem in the part itself. Once you have figured out which part is causing the problem, then you can try to fix (or replace) that part. If you suspect the GC is bad, bench-testing it can confirm it.
David Teitelbaum

Ron

01-26-2012, 02:29 AM

Well that explains it...
If that's what you were trying to say, why didn't you simply share it with us instead of going out of your way to contradict an answer to a question?
Guess what happens to your (good) idea of isolating the problem to a particular part when you convince someone that their "test equipment" doesn't "lie" when it can, and, it only does a one thing when it can do much more.
Troll on..:rolleyes1:

David T

01-26-2012, 09:59 AM

The single most important diagnostic tool is your mind. All of the diagnostic aids in the world aren't worth much if you can't or won't also use your mind to understand what the data is telling you. In this forum I can't give you every possibility for failure, I mention the most common ones. Typically hooking up the light box tells you the GC is not changing state (or at the appropriate times) and typically that tells you to open it and fix the blown caps and typically that fixes things. The other common failure is burnt or otherwise damaged wiring to the GC. That can damage the switching transistors. In that mode you get no switching on one or both solenoids. I am sure there are many other failure modes, they are rare. Like the one where Dave Swingle found a blob of silicone plugging up a solenoid valve.
David Teitelbaum

Elvis

01-26-2012, 10:06 AM

Farrar

01-26-2012, 11:34 AM

The single most important diagnostic tool is your mind.

I'd share this stuff but as no one is asking...

Awwwwwww, you two are SO CUTE!!!! :monkeys:

Elvis

01-26-2012, 11:43 AM

Oh he is back :-)

what's your suggestion ? Ask Bill and then buy a new one ?

Farrar

01-26-2012, 11:58 AM

deloumis

01-26-2012, 12:06 PM

I'mmissng questions like - how do I test a governor ?
How do I test it before installation ?
How do I test the switching points which are nothing but voltages between 0 and 10V.

I'd share this stuff but as no one is asking...

Please share, I fixed my GC and installed and guess what, first gear! But no 3rd so I pulled it off and checked the 3 bridge wires and resoldered them. I went for a spin and no first once again. How to test before installing would be a huge help, I guess I have not asked because I simply didn't think there was a way to do so.

deloumis

01-26-2012, 12:14 PM

I'm sorry, Elvis, but you're not asking the right questions. :(

Bill would say your problem is that you bought an automatic DeLorean, and you should trade it for a manual. He would then make a statement designed to rouse ire. In that way, you and he are very much alike.

If I was in the market for a Delorean when I first got mine, I might have searched for a manual. Problem is I was 17 and it was one of those things that just happened.

David T

01-26-2012, 05:34 PM

To "bench" a GC you hook up power, ground, and a light box and spin the alternator with a drill. You do not have to be very fussy about the speed, you are looking for the GC to change the lights as you increase the speeds. Once you see it actually changing gears then you know it is at least shifting. If it never gets you a gear you keep fixing it till you see it do all of the gears (3). I am sure if you ask nice Elvis can give you the pinnout to hook up power and ground. Anyone trying to fix a GC should bench it before installing it, saves a lot of time if it still isn't working right after dissecting it.
David Teitelbaum

Elvis

01-26-2012, 06:23 PM

Like I said before - take it out and work on it on the bench.
You need a 12V power supply or a battery and another adjustable power supply
from 0 to 10V.

on the round connector that goes to the firewall you connect the 12V and GND,
and the adjustable one goes to the 3 Pins where the alternator is connected.
You have to unsolder the 3 pins of the alternator.
the center pin is Ground and one of the two outer pins has to be connected to
the 0...10V. Both outher Pins do the same.
I suggest to use power supplies with current limiters (set to ~0.2A).

Most people won't have stuff like that at home, but your Dad sounds as he can
help you.

About a week ago I posted here how to test the solenoids to see if they are still OK.
Did you ?
Did you build that LED tester ? You need it !

Here's the pin configuration again:
"
This is the round connector at the fire wall.
........o 1
o 2 ...........o 4

o 3 ...........o 5

1 = +12V - when the fuse and all conectors are OK - here should be +12V. confirm it !
5 = GND
2 and 4 are the solenoids. connect them to GND (Pin5) if you want to test them

"

With this connected and the adjustable voltage at 0V, both LEDs have to be on.

I have the list with the correct voltages at work, I can post them tomorrow, but roughly I still remember them:

second gear - one LED off: ~4.7V
back to first gear - both LEDs on : ~3.6V

third gear - both LEDs off: ~7.7V
second gear - one LED on: ~6.0V

With kick down pushed, the values shift a bit.
Then also the two switches need to be tested - Multimeter needed.

When these values are OK, then knock the PCB's gently on the bench.
If the LEDs flicker - you still have bad solder connections.

In the past I tried to find the specific bad solder connections, but soon
it was clear that they all need to be resoldered.

If the voltages are off, then - when installed - the shifting rpms are off !

When you are this far with testing, please tell me the values.
Installing it without this test is the same as installing the distributor without
testing the timing.

When this is OK and the PCBs are back in the housing and the alternator is
connected, then both LEDs have to be on.
spinning the shaft by hand will turn off one LED, turning it faster will turn off
both for a short moment. When moving that lever, it will become harder to get
the LEDs off by spinning it by hand.

This is no rocket science at all, but needs some time to be done and can NOT
be done under the car !

Before the reinstallation the PCBs should be covered with a coating to protect
it from moisture AND to reduce the effects of the vibrations. I have a special
paint/glue at work for this, but don't know the name or where to get it.
At least you should use clear coat.

My LED-Tester:
7927
7924
7923

Bad caps - these are the ones that always fail: (you had the other/better ones )
7922

Good/better caps - replace them anyways with tantalums.
And - how to connect the 0-10V power supply to test the shifting points.
7928

Bad solder joints due to vibrations:
7925

Filtering caps in place. Nice to have, but it will work without it, too.
7926

Have fun while testing it. It's far past midnight here now...
I'll post the correct voltages soon and hopefully I'll find pics of the finished and
covered PCBs, too.

Ron

01-26-2012, 07:04 PM

Much better way to test than spinning it...GREAT HOW TO Elvis!

BTW David, if you want/need to do it the other way, all pin-outs are are found in the GC thread Post #1. The ones you mentioned are in, post #1, Pic #3 (and Pic #6 also).

jangwin

02-11-2012, 10:29 AM

I just happened upon this discussion. Is there any status to report?

Elvis: Great discussion on how to bench test the Governor. This is the way I run an initial test all of the governors that I build. It lets you see exactly when the solenoids fire, which is important - and lets you see check the hysteresis that is designed into the circuit (eg: shifting from 1 to 2 happens at a different speed than shifting back from 2 to 1).

*shameless plug* If you ever get tired of tired/frustrated with trying to fix your existing CG, consider buying one of my "plug and play" units. They mount in the engine compartment or some owners have mounted in the area behind the driver's seat - and they come with under-dash mounted status LEDs & lifetime guarantee.

---Jeff---
VIN 3034---

deloumis

03-18-2012, 03:02 PM

was it on the old forum where I had described how to test the governor on the bench ?

one quick check to see that the solenoids and internal of the tranny are OK:

NOT meant to drive the car!!!!!!!

This is the round connector at the fire wall.
o 1
o 2 o4

o 3 o5

1 = +12V - when the fuse and all conectors are OK - here should be +12V. confirm it !
5 = GND
2 and 4 are the solenoids. connect them to GND (Pin5)

this should activate first gear !!!

get somebody to help you to start the car and push the brake.
put it in 1, 2 or D then you should connect both pins 2+4 to GND.

does it make a difference compared to your other tests ?

I don't know what happens if you connect the pins when set to R or P.
therefore disconnect it first, then set the car back to P.

if it activates first gear - great, the governor ist shot. no big problem.

if it does not activate first gear - the solenoids are shot - or something
else in the tranny that I'm not familiar with.

OK so after many hours of frustration, I decided to do this test just to see if I have multiple problems I may be working with. After a few test this is what I came up with:

When in:
P- one light (solenoid 2) Car idles fine.
R- one light (solenoid 2) Idle drops down, and I can feel the car "kick". Car moves fine, I can feel there is power, seems to be working properly.
N- one light (solenoid 2) Idle goes back up.
D- one light (solenoid 2) Idle drops slightly, small kick. Car will move VERY slowly.
2- one light (solenoid 2) Idle remains the same. Car moves the same as in D
1- one light (solenoid 2) Idle remains the same. Car moves the same as in D and 2

I also did a test with a volt meter, I had my brother up in front holding the brake and moving the shifter.
P, R, N, D, 2: all get 14+ volts to solenoid 2, ~.35-.5 volts on solenoid 4.
When I shift to 1, solenoid 2 remains with 14+ volts, but solenoid 4 drops voltage to about .05v.

I had my brother drop to 1, I then grounded solenoid 4 to see if it would activate 1st gear, but car seemed to move even less.

What I really want to know is am I looking at any other problems besides my GC? Could I need to rebuild my transmission, or may I have bad solenoids?

deloumis

03-18-2012, 04:54 PM

I took the car out for a test drive with the light box for the first time. The car will not get out of second gear. Will not shift up to 3rd or down to first. It does not matter if I put the gear selector in 1, 2 or D, only one light is lit up all the time. PRND12, there is always one light on, the same light and will not change. I will pull fuse 13 right now and take it for another spin, and see what it does this time.

DMCMW Dave

03-18-2012, 05:15 PM

I will pull fuse 13 right now and take it for another spin, and see what it does this time.

If you can carefully reach back pull fuse 13 while driving you will feel it shift to third. Carefully!!!

deloumis

03-18-2012, 05:18 PM

If you can carefully reach back pull fuse 13 while driving you will feel it shift to third. Carefully!!!

Should my test lights work at this point? I'm thinking no but its worth asking. What if I pull it out before taking off? Should I manually shift from 1 to D?

DMCMW Dave

03-18-2012, 05:38 PM

Should my test lights work at this point? I'm thinking no but its worth asking. What if I pull it out before taking off? Should I manually shift from 1 to D?

When you pull the fuse the test lights will be off. This is the same as speed three. If you pull the fuse first it will only be in speed 3, kind of rough on things, and not quite as conclusive as feeling it shift.

deloumis

03-18-2012, 05:47 PM

When you pull the fuse the test lights will be off. This is the same as speed three. If you pull the fuse first it will only be in speed 3, kind of rough on things, and not quite as conclusive as feeling it shift.

Well I did as you said and it shifted up to third. Put the fuse back in and it shifts right back down to 2nd. What is this telling me? Still problems with the GC only? How do I force 1st to verify it works? Is it even possible?

DMCMW Dave

03-18-2012, 07:11 PM

Well I did as you said and it shifted up to third. Put the fuse back in and it shifts right back down to 2nd. What is this telling me? Still problems with the GC only? How do I force 1st to verify it works? Is it even possible?

It tells you that the trans is probably fine.

There are options on governor repair - we supply them either rebuilding yours or core exchange, both with new microprocessor internals. There is another option (not ours) where you leave it on the car but you have to cut into the OE governor wiring and hang an extra box in the engine compartment.

Ron

03-19-2012, 12:12 PM

Well I did as you said and it shifted up to third. Put the fuse back in and it shifts right back down to 2nd. What is this telling me? Still problems with the GC only? How do I force 1st to verify it works? Is it even possible?
+1 Dave S

It is telling you that the lights are working and the governor is not calling for 1st when it should (barring wiring problems).
You can get 1st gear by grounding both solenoid terminals on the black block. (Remember the solenoids should have 12V when the fuse is in and are waiting to be grounded....)

FWIW- Sounds like you have bad parts in the GC that you missed (or can't check), and really need to get another one....

deloumis

03-19-2012, 12:55 PM

+1 Dave S

It is telling you that the lights are working and the governor is not calling for 1st when it should (barring wiring problems).
You can get 1st gear by grounding both solenoid terminals on the black block. (Remember the solenoids should have 12V when the fuse is in and are waiting to be grounded....)

FWIW- Sounds like you have bad parts in the GC that you missed (or can't check), and really need to get another one....

I tried grounding both solenoids on the block but I still can't get it to first that way.

Farrar

03-19-2012, 02:13 PM

I think it's definitely time for a new governor computer.

Elvis

03-19-2012, 03:03 PM

I tried grounding both solenoids on the block but I still can't get it to first that way.

Have you checked if the solenoids are both present ?

Use your DMM and measure the resistances of both coils.

Are the wires burned somewhere from the hot exhaust ?

Did you perform the tests I wrote for you ?

how about posting pics of what you did so far ?
I'd love to see the GC's PCBs.

Do you have a schematic of the car ? Are you using it ?

deloumis

03-19-2012, 03:04 PM

I think it's definitely time for a new governor computer.

I'm looking at purchasing another used governor. If not I may just have to send mine in to have it rebuilt. I think that may be the best option.

sean

03-19-2012, 03:06 PM

I'm looking at purchasing another used governor. If not I may just have to send mine in to have it rebuilt. I think that may be the best option.

Unless you're getting it dirt cheap, and even the I wouldnt, I would consider steering away from a used module. Just have yours rebuilt or do a core exchange.

deloumis

03-19-2012, 03:17 PM

Unless you're getting it dirt cheap, and even the I wouldnt, I would consider steering away from a used module. Just have yours rebuilt or do a core exchange.

I may just do that then.

deloumis

03-19-2012, 09:49 PM

I decided that I will send my governor in to have it rebuilt, while its gone I'm going to rebuild my transmission since I'm working on it. I know its most likely fine, but I just don't want to get my governor back and my transmission is slipping. I have a rebuild kit sitting there, so I might as well do it.

I managed to drop the transmission almost completely, the only thing that is holding me back is the shifter cable. I could not figure out how to get it off. Where exactly do I need to do to remove it? It ended up getting too dark to see, so I just quit for the day. Will work on it again Wednesday, hopefully finish pulling it off.

Ron

03-19-2012, 11:14 PM

I tried grounding both solenoids on the block but I still can't get it to first that way.Then, if there was 12v at both terminals before you grounded them, the governor and/or the solenoids are toast (not likely).
I'd swap the GC out.

No offense, but I think you should reconsider rebuilding the transmission yourself.

deloumis

03-20-2012, 12:27 AM

Then, if there was 12v at both terminals before you grounded them, the governor and/or the solenoids are toast (not likely).
I'd swap the GC out.

No offense, but I think you should reconsider rebuilding the transmission yourself.

Yeah, I'm sending off my governor.

No offense taken, but I have enough confidence in myself to do it. Actually I have alot of confidence in my dad and little brother more, but my dad is the one to help me with everything. I can honestly say the governor is probably the only thing I have ever not been able to fix in all my vehicles.

Either way if i cannot complete it, I know a few shops to finish the job. I've never been the kind to send any of my vehicles or any part of it to anyone else to fix. If it breaks and I drive it, I fix it. I know it is a difficult task, but I like being able to say I fixed it, not I got it fixed. I don't think anyone will or could talk me out of this one, anyone but my dad atleast. Even then id argue to do it myself.

deloumis

03-25-2012, 08:31 PM

Well my rebuild has been going good so far. I began today around 1:00 and finished up at about 6:00. I dissasembled the valve body, and found one problem. The o ring on one of the solenoids seems to have been put on incorrectly, possibly from factory? Well no big deal, I will replace it but could this be causing any of my problems? It was completely torn on one side.

Since I have both solenoids out while waiting on the o rings,I wanted to test them to make sure they are both working. Is there a way to test them? They are out of the valve body, completley seperated. I was thinking just put +12v to the center pin (2 wires) and - to one of the 2 outside pins. Im just not zure if im supposed to hear anything or what to expect. Im not sure exactly what the do.

Another thing I found inside of the final drive box, this plastic tube was slightly cracked. The oil in the final drive did seem too thin, but im not sure how much if any transmission fluid leaked in there. Has this problem ever been found? I will either repair or replace the part to fix the problem.
http://store.delorean.com/p-8861-tube-conn-sft.aspx

DMCMW Dave

03-25-2012, 09:09 PM

The solenoids are not really solenoids. It is a coil with a steel ball that is held against an orifice when the coil is energized. When the coil is de-energized the ball stops holding fluid in the valve body circuit and that changes the pressure. There isn't really much movement. They don't make any noise, although if you happend to hold it in a way that the ball was pulled into position you might get a very slight click but I've not noticed that. The best electrical test is to measure with an ohmmeter and see if they are the same. I've never seen one fail. The o-ring being chipped would make it act like the valve was open all the time, so that would certainly cause some wierd shifting. I think I have seen that one but it's been a while.

------------------------

It appears that if that tube cracked you could get ATF in the differential. Not sure where you'll find one though.

deloumis

03-25-2012, 09:26 PM

David T

03-25-2012, 09:59 PM

Sounds like that transmission was opened at least once before you. The solenoids should show a resistance of about 25 ohms each. That tube was cracked because during assembly it shifted and got caught, forced, and broken. It can probably be repaired with the right kind of epoxy. No way the factory did the "O" ring wrong. Make sure the coils are not shorted to ground too.
David Teitelbaum

deloumis

04-23-2012, 05:34 PM

This weekend I finally got what I needed to finish up the transmission. Some of the clutches were almost completely worn, some had some wear but not total, and some were really good, but I still replaced almost every replaceable part in there minus a few seals. Overall, wasn't too hard, just running into a few problems. The broken plastic tube inside we chose to replace rather than fix, but since there wasn't any available we had one made out of brass I believe. The governor will still be tested before being put back on, if i cannot have it work now, most likely will have it rebuilt. Hopefully all goes well.

deloumis

04-23-2012, 05:42 PM

98609861

DMCMW Dave

04-23-2012, 11:09 PM

98609861

Nice job. Hope you ended up with a drawing/pattern, I'll bet it's not the last one ever needed!

deloumis

04-24-2012, 12:54 AM

Nice job. Hope you ended up with a drawing/pattern, I'll bet it's not the last one ever needed!

I can have a few more made if needed. If you or anyone else is interested feel free to PM me, we can work something out.

Nicholas R

04-24-2012, 01:08 AM

98609861

Nice! That is impressive.

deloumis

04-24-2012, 05:45 PM

What set of clutches is responsible for 1st gear? Would it be the smallest or largest? Reason I ask is because of the one set being completely worn, I'm curious to see if that was my problem to begin with.

EDIT: Or could a faulty governor have caused this in such little time?

David T

04-24-2012, 06:08 PM

Refer to G:04:01 Fig 5. Worn clutches are caused by a lot of mileage. a bad bad shift computer, or low line pressure. Not considering which clutch or brake is active, the power is transmitted through all of the geartrain. If you have a worn clutch or brake and it doesn't hold, it as if it is active. It's great that you have the courage to tear into your "slush box". I could have suggested alternate sources for your parts, you didn't have to go through the DMC parts. Be sure to measure and set your running clearances before reassembly. Be sure to have the torque converter rebuilt or replaced. You should replace all of the steels, frictions, seals and springs. You also have to check and set the differential carrier preload. Don't use Hylomar.
David Teitelbaum

What set of clutches is responsible for 1st gear? Would it be the smallest or largest? Reason I ask is because of the one set being completely worn, I'm curious to see if that was my problem to begin with.

EDIT: Or could a faulty governor have caused this in such little time?

LEVY

04-24-2012, 07:04 PM

I don't see where Deloumis stated he bought his parts from DMC. Even if he buy his parts from DMC I don't see anything wrong with that, I see DMC as a very respectable company, even if you don't.

LEVY

Refer to G:04:01 Fig 5. Worn clutches are caused by a lot of mileage. a bad bad shift computer, or low line pressure. Not considering which clutch or brake is active, the power is transmitted through all of the geartrain. If you have a worn clutch or brake and it doesn't hold, it a if it is active. It's great that you have the courage to tear into your "slush box". I could have suggested alternate sources for your parts, you didn't have to go through the DMC parts. Be sure to measure and set your running clearances before reassembly. Be sure to have the torque converter rebuilt or replaced. You should replace all of the steels, frictions, seals and springs. You also have to check and set the differential carrier preload. Don't use Hylomar.
David Teitelbaum

deloumis

04-24-2012, 07:14 PM

Refer to G:04:01 Fig 5. Worn clutches are caused by a lot of mileage. a bad bad shift computer, or low line pressure. Not considering which clutch or brake is active, the power is transmitted through all of the geartrain. If you have a worn clutch or brake and it doesn't hold, it as if it is active. It's great that you have the courage to tear into your "slush box". I could have suggested alternate sources for your parts, you didn't have to go through the DMC parts. Be sure to measure and set your running clearances before reassembly. Be sure to have the torque converter rebuilt or replaced. You should replace all of the steels, frictions, seals and springs. You also have to check and set the differential carrier preload. Don't use Hylomar.
David Teitelbaum

I have alot of courage to tear into and fix any part of any of my vehicles. Too much pride in myself and confidence in myself, my brother and my father to take anything to anyone else. None of the parts I used came from a DMC vendor. The rebuild kit came from my father (LEVY) and the broken plastic tube (which apparently is unavailable) my dad had made.

I'm just curious if the set of clutches that were worn were responsible for 1st gear.

David T

04-24-2012, 10:34 PM

C1 is the smallest clutch and is usually the one that slips and loses 1st. It is the first to go because it is the smallest, being nested into the others. I was going to recommend Fastco for the hard parts. Some of the plates are the same size as the Chevette. The transmission was used in a Grumman mail truck! The filter is unique to the Delorean. I only mentioned you do not have to go to DMCH for everything, some parts CAN be obtained locally. I often recommend owners patronize the Delorean venders. This time I did not. I want to mention again, setting the clearances is very important to the function and longevity of the transmission. Take your time and do it right. Be careful, there are some mistakes in the Workshop Manual , especially in the section for the automatic transmission. Flush the lines and cooler before reinstalling the tranny in the car.
David Teitelbaum

deloumis

04-25-2012, 01:23 AM

C1 is the smallest clutch and is usually the one that slips and loses 1st. It is the first to go because it is the smallest, being nested into the others.

C1 actually was fine, I believe it was actually DISC PACK, BRAKE B1 (http://store.delorean.com/p-8838-disc-pack-brake-b1.aspx) that was worn completely. What are these responsible for?

I was going to recommend Fastco for the hard parts. Some of the plates are the same size as the Chevette. The transmission was used in a Grumman mail truck! The filter is unique to the Delorean. I only mentioned you do not have to go to DMCH for everything, some parts CAN be obtained locally. I often recommend owners patronize the Delorean venders. This time I did not.
David Teitelbaum

Thanks, but I already had a rebuild kit available which is what I used.

I want to mention again, setting the clearances is very important to the function and longevity of the transmission. Take your time and do it right. Be careful, there are some mistakes in the Workshop Manual , especially in the section for the automatic transmission. Flush the lines and cooler before reinstalling the tranny in the car.
David Teitelbaum

I took my time with every step, made sure to keep everything neat and clean and completely cleaned out every little thing possible. Everything was replaced but I believe the only thing I did not replace was 2 seals.

Ron

04-25-2012, 09:36 AM

C1 actually was fine, I believe it was actually DISC PACK, BRAKE B1 (http://store.delorean.com/p-8838-disc-pack-brake-b1.aspx) that was worn completely. What are these responsible for?
See Workshop Manual G:04:01, Fig 5

wrkey

04-30-2013, 04:35 PM

Resurecting this thread! It has been extremely helpful and I wanted to say thanks for everyone's input here and throw out something I did to help diagnosis with a bit more safety.

My D (4805) wasn't shifting correctly. She had been sitting for the last 6 years or so before I bought her so I thought she would loosen up over time. Eventually she did, at least in 1st and second gear. Third was different story. After reading this thread and I was pretty sure it was the GC creating the problem. I figured it would be easier for me and more timely if I simply purchased a new GC from DMCH since they are only about 10 minutes from my day job. Unfortunately, Todd at DMCH explained that they get take our old units, get them rebuilt and the reinstall and this process can take up to a month. Todd was very understanding that the time frame given could be excessive so we talked about my other options. The first as to isolate the shift problem from trans to GC and that could be done by pulling the fuse once I was up to speed in 2nd. So I did this. I took off in Drive and the car shift fine from 1st to 2nd and then about 45 I pulled the fuse and she slipped quietly into 3rd. Slowing down to around 35 I put the fuse back in and she dropped to 2nd like she should. So... transmission is fine... GC has issues. Surprise, surpirse.

Now the fun part. I want to rebuild the boards in the GC so that means I need to pull the GC and to do that I have drop the pan on the trans. Since I needed to get the car home I wanted to devise a way I could SAFELY shift in and out of third with out having to look back over my shoulder or reach back to pull the fuse. My idea was to put an on/off switch into the circuit that I could put a long wire on to lay the switch up on the console. I have attached a quick wiring diagram of my solution. This set up allows me to drive the vehicle with the GC ON through 1st and 2nd gear and then when ready for 3rd I simply swith OFF the GC and she shifts. When I slow and need to go back to 2nd I simply flip the GC back ON and away we go.

To make this rig, I found 2 sets (1 male/1 female = 1 set) of blade connectors that were approximately the same size as the blades on the fuse. I put both male blades on one end of a medium sized speaker wire and those I plugged into the sockets where fuse 13 would go. I then closed up the fuse access panel and routed the speaker wire around to the middle of the console. The switch I used had soldered connections so I soldered the end of the speaker wire to each terminal of the switch. Voila, I can now turn the GC on and off. But.. the fuse protection was gone. So, I cut one wire a bit down from the switch and installed the two female connectors to the two end and these connectors then slipped one the blades of the fuse. Now the GC is switch and still protected by the fuse. Out for a test drive we went and it was smooth as silk. Execept I had to flip a switch to put her in and out of third.

Now I could drive her home where I will drop the pan, pull the GC and rebuild it. I will update on that experience when I'm done!

Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread and the past and I hope this little novel can help other test their GC in a safe manner.

WelmoedJ

04-30-2013, 05:00 PM

Resurecting this thread! It has been extremely helpful and I wanted to say thanks for everyone's input here and throw out something I did to help diagnosis with a bit more safety.

My D (4805) wasn't shifting correctly. She had been sitting for the last 6 years or so before I bought her so I thought she would loosen up over time. Eventually she did, at least in 1st and second gear. Third was different story. After reading this thread and I was pretty sure it was the GC creating the problem. I figured it would be easier for me and more timely if I simply purchased a new GC from DMCH since they are only about 10 minutes from my day job. Unfortunately, Todd at DMCH explained that they get take our old units, get them rebuilt and the reinstall and this process can take up to a month. Todd was very understanding that the time frame given could be excessive so we talked about my other options. The first as to isolate the shift problem from trans to GC and that could be done by pulling the fuse once I was up to speed in 2nd. So I did this. I took off in Drive and the car shift fine from 1st to 2nd and then about 45 I pulled the fuse and she slipped quietly into 3rd. Slowing down to around 35 I put the fuse back in and she dropped to 2nd like she should. So... transmission is fine... GC has issues. Surprise, surpirse.

Now the fun part. I want to rebuild the boards in the GC so that means I need to pull the GC and to do that I have drop the pan on the trans.

Wrong assumption:
To remove the GC you don't need to drop the tranny pan.
You need to remove the tranny's electrical connections box at the firewall and remove the connector to the tranny.
Remove the three connections art the top of the round box part (the tranny's electrical connections), note how they are connected.
Pull the disconneted cable back towards the GC (don't forget to loosen the clip at the tranny).
Then remove kick-down cable from the GC and remove the GC from the gearbox.
Make sure the axle comes out with the GC.
Now you can take the complete wiring and GC from te car for servicing.

You have to open the GC by removing the aluminum lid on top.
Next disconnect the three wire bridges that connect the circuit boards to the generator wires.
Remove the metal clip and pull the circuit boards as far up as you can.

By carefully folding the two circuit boards apart you will be able to do the necessary work.
This work mainly consist of inspecting the traces for broken ones.
You also need to replace the tubular capacitors (most likely blown) by tantalum ones (I do not have the proper values on hand now).
Do also replace (while yoy're in there) the original power transistors by TIP42C.
If the bigger resistors near the transistors seem shot, replace them with alike values, but 2 Watt instead of 1 Watt.

Hope this helps.

I've done this at the time and more than once.
My D was mighty fast after this GC upgrade (an English auto tranny owner rode with me with his hands against the dash all the time and asked what I had done to make it so swift) :)

lazabby

04-30-2013, 05:00 PM

Somebody made a replacement part to bypass the current GC. Perhaps someone reading this will remember and chime in.

As far as DMCH new GC I have on in my car and it works great. I have not had any issues with it.

Farrar

04-30-2013, 05:17 PM

Somebody made a replacement part to bypass the current GC. Perhaps someone reading this will remember and chime in.

Jeff Angwin.

wrkey

05-01-2013, 09:42 AM

Wrong assumption:
To remove the GC you don't need to drop the tranny pan.
You need to remove the tranny's electrical connections box at the firewall and remove the connector to the tranny.
Remove the three connections art the top of the round box part (the tranny's electrical connections), note how they are connected.
Pull the disconneted cable back towards the GC (don't forget to loosen the clip at the tranny).
Then remove kick-down cable from the GC and remove the GC from the gearbox.
Make sure the axle comes out with the GC.
Now you can take the complete wiring and GC from te car for servicing.

You have to open the GC by removing the aluminum lid on top.
Next disconnect the three wire bridges that connect the circuit boards to the generator wires.
Remove the metal clip and pull the circuit boards as far up as you can.

By carefully folding the two circuit boards apart you will be able to do the necessary work.
This work mainly consist of inspecting the traces for broken ones.
You also need to replace the tubular capacitors (most likely blown) by tantalum ones (I do not have the proper values on hand now).
Do also replace (while yoy're in there) the original power transistors by TIP42C.
If the bigger resistors near the transistors seem shot, replace them with alike values, but 2 Watt instead of 1 Watt.

Hope this helps.

I've done this at the time and more than once.
My D was mighty fast after this GC upgrade (an English auto tranny owner rode with me with his hands against the dash all the time and asked what I had done to make it so swift) :)

Thanks! I plan on tearing into her starting tomorrow and I'm thinking I'll video it and put it up on YouTube. Mistakes and breaks and lessons learned.

Rusty

David T

05-01-2013, 03:17 PM

Besides the 2 blown caps you will find cold solder joints. Just remelt them all taking care not to overheat the chips. You may have to remove a coating, some boards had the PCB side covered with a coating after being soldered. You do not need to replace the output transistors if it shifts into each gear, even if it is erratic. The transistors blow when the wiring gets melted on the exhaust pipes. IMHO the caps are not essential but are used to filter spikes and pulses out of the electronics. The filtering is awful even if the caps are not blown. The REAL problem is the bad solder joints that get worse with age and become temperature sensitive. If you have the room you do not even have to undo the wiring, you can just pull the GC off the transmission, let it hang and open it up. It is a lot easier to work on it off the car on a bench though. Make sure to thoroughly inspect the wiring to the GC for any signs of heat damage. Zip tie it well so it can't get melted.
David Teitelbaum

lazabby

05-01-2013, 04:49 PM

David brings up a good point about the wiring. The wire from the govenor to the engine had melted where it laid on the exhaust pipe. Check that wire out and tie it up if it's not tied.

Elvis

05-01-2013, 06:11 PM

Little correction:

ALL the boards have that coating and if you try to solder them with the coating still on, the connections may look good but are not !

You have to scratch off the coating from each single solder joint and then you have to resolder each single one !

Afterwards you should apply the coating again. This also works as a glue that reduces the effects of the vibrations.
Heat and VIBRATIONS kill the solder joints !!!!!

I will never understand how somebody can do this on the car. Please stop telling people this is possible - the result of this shortcut
will be a still bad shifting governor !

On ~50 repaired units I have NEVER swapped the resistors and have never seen bad ones.

Resoldered PCBs will still not last forever, the vibrations will do their job and after several thousand miles the problem is back.

Interesting for europeans at the moment: I have new PCBs with thru hole connections which are far less sensitive to vibrations and will
last at least twice as long as the original one. I do repair governors now by replacing the complete PCB, all new parts.
Afterwards I test them intensively on the bench and cover the PCBs and parts on it with a special coating similar to the original one.

PM me if interested.

Besides the 2 blown caps you will find cold solder joints. Just remelt them all taking care not to overheat the chips. You may have to remove a coating, some boards had the PCB side covered with a coating after being soldered. You do not need to replace the output transistors if it shifts into each gear, even if it is erratic. The transistors blow when the wiring gets melted on the exhaust pipes. IMHO the caps are not essential but are used to filter spikes and pulses out of the electronics. The filtering is awful even if the caps are not blown. The REAL problem is the bad solder joints that get worse with age and become temperature sensitive. If you have the room you do not even have to undo the wiring, you can just pull the GC off the transmission, let it hang and open it up. It is a lot easier to work on it off the car on a bench though. Make sure to thoroughly inspect the wiring to the GC for any signs of heat damage. Zip tie it well so it can't get melted.
David Teitelbaum

wrkey

05-03-2013, 09:26 AM

During a final check before I reassemble and install, I realized the capacitors I bought have a negative and positive side, but I can't seem to find it on the old capacitors. Any help here with this? Does it matter which way I put them?

This question has not been answered on this thread. I've done a lot of cap. replacement on Arcade monitors and pinball machines so I know that polarity makes a difference. However, it would be good if someone with experience rebuilding the GC could chime in and correctly answer deloumis's question and possibly provide a marked up photo showing the Positive (+) and Negative (-) sides of the caps to be replaced.

Anyone want to tackle this?

I'm hoping to get to the GC rebuild this weekend along with the rear calipers. Videos to follow if all goes well.

Rusty

Ron

05-03-2013, 09:51 AM

You must of missed this link in post 17.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?350-Automatic-Transmission-Governor

wrkey

05-03-2013, 10:03 AM

You must of missed this link in post 17.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?350-Automatic-Transmission-Governor

I've been using that thread to.. but it does not specifically answer the question. Nor does it have a marked up photo showing the + or - end of the caps to be installed. Backwards polarized caps generate that magical blue smoke when installed backwards. Hoping to get a solid clear and definative answer/diagram/photo to help others and to insure I don't don't screw things up worse than they are.

Ron

05-03-2013, 10:49 AM

We would have to see the ones you want to use to answer -- There are several variations of the boards that I have seen (2 cover the "popular" ones) and there are scores of caps that will work, all marked differently...

If you can't read the old ones, you should be able to tell from the schematic which way they go by what they are connected too...
This should help with the different marking other manufacturers have:
Capacitor Polarity Markings (http://www.google.com/search?q=capacitor+polarity&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=2smDUfrrOYvu9ATOsIGwAg&sqi=2&ved=0CDgQsAQ&biw=1007&bih=613)

Otherwise, post some pics...

wrkey

05-06-2013, 12:38 PM

So... this weekend with the car sitting on Jackstands, I rebuilt the rear brake calipers and started on the GC. I am following the instructions previously given for the most part but I have actually removed the boards from the GC housing with out removing the GC completely from the car. I desoldered the Governor connection and after pulling the boards out, desoldered the wires connected to the boards so I can replace the components on my workbench and not under the car. Soo... you can remove the GC with out actually removing the GC itself although I did free the GC from the transmission to make access a bit easier. The real question will be if I will be able to put it all back together correctly under the car or if I'll have to pull it out anyway.

I'll keep ya'll posted. I am creating a video that I will eventually post showing my trials, tribulation and success (or failure). Hope to complete the board repair and put it all back together after work but that remains to be seen.

David T

05-06-2013, 09:50 PM

As I said, it can be done without actually removing the GC but it isn't easy. If you do do it that way at least inspect the wires for any heat damage and make sure they are well secured away from the exhaust system.
David Teitelbaum

wrkey

05-08-2013, 10:10 AM

"Della" now runs and shifts as she was designed too! YEA!!!!

Long story short, yes you can remove and reinstall the GC boards with out removing the cables from the car but from my experience I don't think I saved much time if any. Now, if it was on a rack where I could easily work on it and not on jackstands where I had to lay on my back the whole time and if I had at least one extra arm/hand to hold the GC while my other two were busy soldering......

Anyway, I did video the process in steps and will be putting the pieces together into a single video to be posted online. Hopefully I can get to this by early next week.

As for the parts replaced, I did the following:

1. Replaced the transistors with NTE332 which are cross-referenced to the recommended TIP-42C. These are upgraded for higher temps than original.
2. Replaced the two resistors with 2 watt versions as recommended. Again these are upgraded for higher temps than original.
3. Replaced 2 capacitors with tantalum versions. (probably didn't spell that right)

Total cost in parts.... $10. This included buying extra resistors and caps in case I screwed them up.

NOTE!!!! When you replace the transistors, do not install them close to the board as one normally would. These resistors need to have lots of leg on them as you have to bend them around the edge of the board (after install) so that they will fit between the edge of the board and the GC aluminum cap.

I put around 200 miles on her last night after this repair and she is doing good so far.

Thanks to everyone who provided advice in this thread! Most helpful!