PLEASE HELP! Orlando Emergency!

[ccurzio]

Hi all. So I decided I wanted to take my DeLorean on a drive from Atlanta to Tampa to Orlando, and at the last exit before my final destination I had some problems shifting gears. Getting out of gear was a little tough and shifting into gear had some grinding of gears. A little further down the road it became impossible to shift out of gear, and the clutch pedal can push to the floor with absolutely no resistance and it has no effect on the shifter at all.

As of right now I am stranded in Orlando with a dead DeLorean and I need emergency help. If anyone is in the area and can assist in getting this car back to working order or knows someone who can I will be more than happy to compensate as needed and appropriate. Please help.

[Mike C.]

Sounds like you clutch master or slave have gone bye bye, or your fluid has leaked out. Do you have fluid in your reservoir? Check your carpet by your pedals. Do you notice any kind of fluid?

Open the panel and take a look. I had a hose clamp fail from my res. to the clutch master cylinder. That caused all the fluid to leak out. You may be able to get by with a refill and bleed job.

I will try to contact a couple of the central FL guys to see if they can lend a hand. Unfortunately im 3 hours south in Fort Lauderdale.

[DMC5180]

You've lost your clutch hydraulics. Look for a puddle or fresh drips under the car. You may be lucky enough to simply refill the reservoir (DOT 4) only. In other words Your reservoir Is empty and sucking air at the master cyl. Theoretically the air should be at the master cyl at this point. By putting in fresh fluid the Air in the master should rise into the reservoir self bleeding sort of speak. This is only a temporary Limp home fix assuming it works. You will have to keep refilling the fluid till periodically till you get home and replace what failed. Or stop in at DMCFL on your way home.

[Mike C.]

Where exactly in Orlando are you?

[DMC5180]

How far Is OZZIE from Orlando?

[ccurzio]

Yeah, immediately after I posted this thread I checked outside to see if I could poke around (it was pouring rain when I got here), and the rain let up entirely so I started investigating.

The clutch fluid reservoir is BONE DRY. That clearly makes a hell of a difference and it's obvious I have a leak somewhere, the question is, is it a simple matter of me refilling the system (feeding fluid, pumping the clutch, feeding more, pumping more, rinse/repeat until the clutch comes back to life), or am I further up shit's creek than I realize?

[ccurzio]

Where exactly in Orlando are you?

I have extremely limited Internet access at this moment in time but if you google maps zip code 32826 that'll put you within a few miles of where I am.

[DMC5180]

Oh Great, of course it's raining. Man that sucks even worse. Are you able to find a dry spot under an awning (motel entrance) maybe. Your loss of fluid should just be at the master cyl. (air in the system) refilling may self bleed (burp) back into the reservoir. Depending on how severe the leak is will determine how long it will last.

When was the last time you checked the clutch fluid level prior to today? if it was recently and was near full then you have a rapid leak. If Never, it could simply be slow loss seepage over time and just caught up to you.

[Mike C.]

Ok, you are right in the area of a couple of people. Im still trying to get a hold of someone. I believe they are still at work for a few more minutes.

[Mike C.]

How far Is OZZIE from Orlando?

Ozzie lives down the road from me in Fort Lauderdale.

[DMC5180]

Looks like your getting things situated Mike. Way to go :thumbup:

[Chris Burns]

Cool beans Mike!:hihi:

[chef4u]

I can help, I live in Orlando area and I have AAA. My number is 858-699-3663. Call me ASAP. Clarito

[Mike C.]

Clarito! thanks bro!! I owe you one at Celebration!

-Mike

[chef4u]

Mike,
Just spoke to him, he's safe. He'll be contacting me tomorrow and see If I can help him with his car. Are you going to Celebration this April? If so, I'll see you then.

[Dangermouse]

Thanx for helping him out. Great community !!

[dvonk]

go Clarito! :bigclap:

[ccurzio]

Twas incredibly kind for Clarito to respond and offer assistance. I'm at my friend's house and tomorrow I'm going to see if I can coax the clutch back to life by filling the reservoir and pumping the clutch and hopefully getting it back to functioning, just enough for me to get back to Atlanta.

Then I'm going to hopefully pay Sean whatever it takes to fix things and make it go. I just sincerely hope I can get the thing moving again. :(

[thirdmanj]

I feel ya man. I'm glad all is workin' out ok. It's a real bummer, but on the other side of it how AWESOME is this forum!!?

[ccurzio]

I feel ya man. I'm glad all is workin' out ok. It's a real bummer, but on the other side of it how AWESOME is this forum!!?

That has yet to be seen, but this forum and its members are fantastic and I'm immensely grateful to all of you.

[Jacko]

Impressive response, guys! :thumbup2:

[Mike C.]

Mike,
Just spoke to him, he's safe. He'll be contacting me tomorrow and see If I can help him with his car. Are you going to Celebration this April? If so, I'll see you then.

Indeed I will be there! I am registering tomorrow, so I will be all officially set! Will see ya then!

[dmc6960]

This sounds like a similar experience I had on the way to DCS 2000. The D I was riding with lost clutch function due to loss of hydraulic fluid. Assuming you do not have a massive leak you should be able to refill it and get moving.

KEEP A MENTAL NOTE...

You can drive it without bleeding if you are unable to. You'll need to pump the pedal rapidly several times to get good pressure. It will be good for a few minutes then. After you've been on the highway for a while you are going to need to remember to pump again before you start shifting again. Also be mindful to never force it into second gear if your having trouble. If you are good at matching the correct engine speed for each gear this can also assist a failing clutch. I did this with success last year with a hydraulic failure driving home from work. 20 miles city driving heavy traffic. Not fun but doable.

Too bad I'm not in FL right now, I'd already have you bled and ready to go!

Best of luck getting home.

[stevedmc]

Is it wet on the driver side? You can rebuild the clutch master cylinder with a kit for an 81 AMC. I have the exact info on the cross reference thread. If the kit isn't available in your area just buy a master cylinder for an AMC and transfer the guts.

It's a fairly easy job. People haven't asked you this yet but do you have a stainless or plastic clutch line?

[eagle-co94]

With that zip it sounds like you're in the UCF area. It's good that you got help. I'd hate to be stranded in the middle of nowhere without the forum!

[ccurzio]

Updates and information and answers to questions:

1) I got out there early this morning and pulled my flashlight from the glove compartment and started poking around. The carpet on the driver's side is unstained and dry. Doesn't look like it's a master cylinder leak.

2) I have not yet been able to get to a store and buy hydraulic fluid. I plan in doing that first time today, as soon as the other slackers in this house wake the hell up. I'd drive over there myself but, well, DeLorean.

3) I checked for drips under the car but this isn't all that telling because the reservoir is completely empty and I was on the move when the problems showed up. There is no evidence of a leak, but like I said, it's probably because it drained while in motion.

4) I don't recall ever having checked the clutch fluid. It never occurred to me. Seems like it's either a slow leak, or a new fast leak caused (or exacerbated) by the long drive down here.

5) I have the stainless clutch line. The only reason I know I have the stainless clutch line is because it was in the paperwork of maintenance work the previous owner had done at DMCNW.

6) DMCFL has never been an option. Check out a map - I'm currently in Orlando and I live in Atlanta. Yeah. (I wanted to visit them but ruled it out even BEFORE my car had any problems.)

7) THERE REALLY REALLY NEEDS TO BE AN OFFICIAL GEORGIA-BASED DMC AFFILIATE. :) (Seriously, Bonita Springs is borderline useless unless you live South of Tampa or around Naples, and you don't have a DeLorean if you live in Naples. You have a Cadillac or a Buick. That's the problem with Florida - being a peninsula means its a pain in the ass.) If I had the startup capital I'd have worked to open DMCSE months ago.

Further bulletins as events warrant. And again, thank you all for your continued help and support. (Particularly Mike and Clarito)

[eagle-co94]

Brake/clutch fluid is nasty stuff. It will bubble paint and won't evaporate much at all, so if you can look/feel around the master cylinder you'll likely find a leak if it's there.

[ccurzio]

Side note: when I first bought the car, the previous owner included a bag of extras containing a pile of brand new parts - clearly a bunch of intended upgrades and repairs. (Upgraded LED bulbs for the doors were in there, for example.) Also included in that pile was a brand new slave cylinder. I wonder if this is why.

Side-side note: One thing I find interesting is that I can't pull it out of gear even when the car isn't running. That's just outright bizarre.

[stevedmc]

I would have the Florida vendor overnight you a slave cylinder before you start driving home. If it were me I would change it out before hitting the road. Of coarse you could leave the old one on and drive with the part as a spare if filling and bleeding the reservoir works.

I would check and top off the reservoir as necessary each time you stop for gas.

I believe you will need dot 4 fluid.

[Ron]

Side-side note: One thing I find interesting is that I can't pull it out of gear even when the car isn't running. That's just outright bizarre.If you have it parked on a grade that is basically normal. You can probably get someone to rock it back and it should come right out....
Do/did you smell fluid? I wouldn't work the pedal much because, if you are lucky enough that it simply ran out, you dont want to scuff the seals and make it start bypassing....
At least enjoy the weather...I know you said it was raining (always subject to instant change in FL), but it's snowing here now ;-)

[ccurzio]

New update. There's good news and bad news.

Good News: The problem has been isolated. It just so happens that my friend here has a neighbor that is not only a mechanic with his own lift in a workshop behind his house, but knows a lot about rear-engined cars and has tried to buy a DeLorean in the past. Anyway, he got out a bunch of his tools and we went to work to diagnose the problem.

Bad News: The Slave Cylinder is toast. We bled the system and a bunch of air came out and the clutch stiffened up real good, but turning on the engine and hitting the clutch causes fluid to pretty much stream out from the cylinder. I also can't get it into 1st gear at all. The car is still immovable.

I used the "rapid order" feature on the DMCH website (does anyone know anything about this?) and ordered a slave cylinder with 2nd day shipping. Unfortunately it's going to be a matter of finding someone who can help me swap it out. The guy next door is fully capable of doing it but that'd be a hell of a job to impose on someone. So I'm still fucked for the moment.


If you have it parked on a grade that is basically normal.

This is exactly right. Jacking up the car and getting it leveled off made it slide right out of gear.

[Dangermouse]

Any chance of driving to DMCF and picking one up, if they have one?

[ccurzio]

Any chance of driving to DMCF and picking one up, if they have one?

None. They're almost 4 hours in the wrong direction and I have no car.

Edit: New problem. DMC is closed on weekends. :(

[DMC5180]

Unfortunately, nothing moves on Weekends (Outbound) (From the major shippers) so even if a DMC shop tried to help (Today) The box would not move til Monday and you pay (overnite) delivery.(Tuesday). USPS Priority (if shipped today) would still take til (Tuesday) most likely.

Is your trip Pleasure or Business? It may be worth your while to Rent-a-car and continue on. Then Come back when the part has arrived and fix it. I'm sure the car would be Safe where it's at till then.

Just a suggestion.

[Ron]

Another option is to call around and see if a local auto parts might match up the seal(s) you need if you take them an old one)s).... They are simple to change out, once you can get to them...
NAPA comes to mind.

[ccurzio]

So here's my current plan... I have a friend back home who's going to pop round my house and grab my spare slave cylinder, then overnight it to me ASAP. As mentioned I will probably get the part on Tuesday. I'm going to cancel my order with DMC since there's no way they can get me the part in time.

Once I get the part I'm going to attempt to bribe my friend's neighbor into helping me replace it. If that falls through I honestly have no idea what I'm going to do.

[Bitsyncmaster]

There are three different slaves that were used. So you need to pull the old one apart and get the parts for that type. Replacing the seal is very quick and easy.

Be careful of the pipe going into the slave that you don't twist it.

[Chris Burns]

If your were in Jacksonville my mechanic could replace that slave for you. However you would have to wait until Monday. He is very good with Deloreans (DBI Imports).

[sdg3205]

Worst case scenario is rent a u-haul pick-up truck and car trailer and drive it home that way. Pretty cost effective and you can get a flat rate on mileage if its over a certain distance.

That's how I got my car home once.

[Ozzie]

Yaaaahhh!!! Have been out of this forum this weekend until now. Sorry to hear about the mechanical issues with your drive. But am proud of the FL owners' responses that you've gotten, and kudo's to Mike for doing his best to imitate the On-Star service.

Well not much I could've done as you are about 3.5-4 hours away. I would have offered the same diagnosis because the same thing happened to me last year, same transmission reaction, as it was my slave cylinder. I AAA-ed the car home and replaced it the following weekend.

I am not aware of a crossover part for the slave cylinder.

I've replaced two now, my car and assisted with Mike's car. It's not a fun job, but definitely something that can be done in a few hours ...IF the fittings and two mounting bolts cooperate.

Some tips:

* You'll have to work from both under the car, and above it to replace it.
* Which means you'll have to put the rear on lifts or ramps. Please work safely!
* You will need extensions, between the ratchet and sockets.
* First I like to loosen (best access from underneath) but not remove the two bolts that hold the unit in place (some shots of PB Blaster first may help). Make sure you are working on the correct two, there are some other similar bolts nearby.
* Remove the associated clutch hard line that at the point where it attaches to the side of the transmission first, and let it drain out from there. Put a cup under it and have someone pump a little to assist to drain it.
* The fitting from the hard line to the slave cylinder it the toughest to take out and remove because of limited access and room to rotate a wrench. I've tried both from top and bottom and tend to favor the bottom for the removal.
* Top access is assisted by either laying across your engine, heads towards the front of the car for more access/visibility. You will need top access to see/reach the two mounting bolts, and for installation/bleeding the bleeder fitting. (Some owners prefer to remove remove the engine cover, for better access, as well.)
* You will swear several times at your heater hose that is near that fitting.
* The hard line needs to be removed from the slave, so you can pull it out and away from the mounting position.
* No teflon tape required, on these types of fitting.

Hope that helps.
When you get back, consider replacing the master as well, since you typically want to do both at the same time.

[Cory W]

One other note that I didn't see on here:

There is a short adaptor piece on the slave, and there should be a plastic washer, which will not be on the new one. You will want to move them over from your current one.

For pictures, check this page. They're numbers 4 and 5.
http://store.delorean.com/c-384-4-4-1-clutch-hydraulics.aspx

[TTait]

I had a remote clutch bleeder fail catastrophically fail on me once. I had my friend with me help me push start the car again and then jump in while i was rolling and I got it about 2 miles to the house in first without stopping again - I feel your pain.

OK - this is a way-out-there suggestion - but I'll float it for comment lest someone be even more stranded in the future...

I propose it would be possible to buy a 6' length of .125 steel cable, some crosby clamps, and something to work as a handle at the local home depot, drill a small hole in the underbody and pass the cable through to the passenger compartment, put the handle on one end and work the other end through the clutch fork, and operate the clutch by hand (literally) until you can get home to your own garage. It would be really hard to shift as you would need to run the clutch cable with your right hand, shift with your left, and steer with your knee, but I'll bet you would be surprised how little you need to use the clutch if you plan ahead a bit.

I drove a car for half a year with no reverse, have limped cars home without touching the brakes when a pad snapped (using parking brake when really needed), and once drove myself 10 miles from the middle of nowhere to an emergency room in a 5 speed with a very badly broken right ankle (think about that one) - you'd be amazed how quickly you can adapt to non standard driving situations when circumstances demand...

Seems to me the key to installing an emergency clutch cable is finding the right place to drill through the underbody... with that figured out I'd guess then entire job would take less than 30 minutes...

[DMC5180]

Ok, Bill! I'd be surprised if one would have enough arm strength to pull it.

[ccurzio]

Thanks again for all the help and responses in this thread. There's something else you guys can help me with that can assist greatly.

For all of you that have done this operation before, can you provide me with a really simple step-by-step overview of how to replace the slave cylinder? I'm not doing the work alone since my friend's neighbor is a massive car guy, but I need to give him an idea of what needs to be done and in what order since he's not tremendously familiar with DMC, but does know cars and rear-engined cars. I don't need a huge amount of detail down to the bolt locations or anything like that, just a simple list of what should be removed to get at the part and in what order, tear down and reassembly.

[Cory W]

Here's what I've done:

Go below the car. Separate the hard line leading to slave cylinder from the slave.

Reach up and unbolt slave. If you move around a bit you can get good sightlines of both bolts.

I then went above, and removed the slave from there. I Pushed forward slightly, rotated the slave upwards, rotating with the pin, and was careful of wiring and hoses. This can be made easier if you have somebody below holding the clutch fork forward using an 18-24" prybar.

Change that adaptor and washer over. You may need a vise to loosen and properly tighten.

Put new slave cylinder in place. It helps to put the clutch fork pin in place first, then rotate the slave down into place.

Position slave to put the bolts back in place.

Again, you can choose to remove the louver and engine cover to give a bit more room, but in August I replaced a slave for a Southern Ontario owner without removing it. It just makes headroom a bit tighter.

EDIT: One thing I recall was a difference between my car (81) and the car I was working on (83): Both of my fasteners were bolts, so I had a lot of freedom removing and putting the slave in place. On the '83, one side was a bolt, and the other was a removable nut on a stationary threaded shaft that you had to clear to remove and install. I'm not certain which (if either) is "correct" or "factory", nor am I sure if that was a running change. It's way easier to have someone pulling the clutch fork forward with a prybar from below if your slave is held in place like it was in the '83 car.

[ccurzio]

Just a quick note, I'm planning on going in from above and removing the intake manifold. Sean has kindly and helpfully provided an outline instruction list, but if anyone else has any tips or suggestions they are more than welcome.

[ccurzio]

SUCCESS! (I hope.)

Mr. Mechanic Neighbor Friend was unavailable today so it ended up being a matter of sucking it up and diving in. I ended up not removing the entire intake manifold, but rather I just pulled off the Mixture Control Unit. This left me with adequate room to reach down and do the work with the slave cylinder. Got the old one popped out, installed the new one, bled the system, reassembled the engine as best as could be figured, cleaned everything up and took it out for a ten minute test drive. The clutch at least feels better than it ever had before and the engine seems to be running normally, so I'm pretty sure all is well and we're back up and running. Quite the learning experience to be sure.

A tremendous thanks for all of you who helped me out here. From support and aid, I couldn't have done this without you guys. Many thanks.

Now cross your fingers and hope I make it back to Atlanta tomorrow. :)

[Ozzie]

Great news!
Good job!!
Have a safe return trip.

[eagle-co94]

Doesn't it feel great to work on your own car, saving labor, gaining knowledge and confidence and having a better running/operating car?:strongman:

[Mike C.]

SUCCESS! (I hope.)

Mr. Mechanic Neighbor Friend was unavailable today so it ended up being a matter of sucking it up and diving in. I ended up not removing the entire intake manifold, but rather I just pulled off the Mixture Control Unit. This left me with adequate room to reach down and do the work with the slave cylinder. Got the old one popped out, installed the new one, bled the system, reassembled the engine as best as could be figured, cleaned everything up and took it out for a ten minute test drive. The clutch at least feels better than it ever had before and the engine seems to be running normally, so I'm pretty sure all is well and we're back up and running. Quite the learning experience to be sure.

A tremendous thanks for all of you who helped me out here. From support and aid, I couldn't have done this without you guys. Many thanks.

Now cross your fingers and hope I make it back to Atlanta tomorrow. :)

Just make sure you have her back in Orlando for DCS! Have a safe trip home!!

[jawn101]

Congrats on the repair. It's been great to watch the community in action, it's really cool to know there are so many people willing to help in an emergency situation.

[David T]

On many shift cars you could start the motor with the transmission in 1st and power shift without using the clutch into the other gears. This is DANGEROUS ADVICE with a Delorean. Forcing shifts will damage the roll pins on the shifter rails requiring R & R ing the transmission and opening it up all for a couple of $0.25 roll pins. If you lose the use of the clutch and cannot get it to work the best advice is to have it towed till it can be repaired.
David Teitelbaum

[nullset]

Great thread, I'm glad you're back safe.

Hopefully I'll see you at a SEDOC event soon.

--buddy

[opethmike]

On many shift cars you could start the motor with the transmission in 1st and power shift without using the clutch into the other gears. This is DANGEROUS ADVICE with a Delorean. Forcing shifts will damage the roll pins on the shifter rails requiring R & R ing the transmission and opening it up all for a couple of $0.25 roll pins. If you lose the use of the clutch and cannot get it to work the best advice is to have it towed till it can be repaired.
David Teitelbaum

Uh.... he said a few posts back that everything is fixed.

[ccurzio]

Update: Before leaving this morning there was one final plug that needed reconnecting, and after a few spritzes here and there with a hose to clean up residual crap goo on and around the engine, I let it run for a bit idling in the driveway to burn off whatever remained and then took it for a second, 45 minute test drive. Once again it ran fine and there were no problems at all.

Then it was time for the real test - 515 miles back home from Orlando to Gainesville. I am happy to say that I made the journey with zero issues and only one stop for a refuel. Everything definitely seems to be back to good.

I know I've said It already several times in this thread but I feel like I can't say it enough. Once again thank you so much to everyone here who's helped me out. It's such a boost to know there's this great community backing everyone else in times of need, and you can be sure I'd do the same for any of you in a heartbeat.



Great thread, I'm glad you're back safe.

Hopefully I'll see you at a SEDOC event soon.

--buddy

Thanks man, ditto over here. Looking forward to it.

[David T]

I know he said it was fixed. I just wanted to post WHY it should be fixed ASAP so anyone searching the archives will see the explanation.
David Teitelbaum