window switches

[jfirios]

I am redoing my window switches, so that each up and down motion has its own button. does anyone know how to rewire the switches for that?

[dvonk]

i believe Chad (user Dracula) did that to 1601 with custom metal push buttons. maybe he can enlighten you, and/or post a photo.

[DMCMW Dave]

i believe Chad (user Dracula) did that to 1601 with custom metal push buttons. maybe he can enlighten you, and/or post a photo.

You will need to use relays or other electronics to actually control the motors.

If you don't, pressing up and down at the same time will blow the fuse. That is why cars universally use mechanical rockers for window switches.

[Dracula]

i believe Chad (user Dracula) did that to 1601 with custom metal push buttons. maybe he can enlighten you, and/or post a photo.

That is the single most notable mod to my car; also my most drastic. I'll post every picture I have. This came about as a result of my disdain for the factory switches and accidentally triggering my auxiliary cooling fan switch or windows with my arm.

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The switches are set in a piece of coated black stainless with a recess for the labels and backlit by LEDs inside a plastic block and tied in with the headlights.

It's completely reversible, as the switch bank sits atop the slots for the switches and doesn't involve cutting the wiring harnesses.

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The system of relays that prevent the windows from being engaged simultaneously in raise and lower; not 100% necessary, but it could blow fuses without this.

Note that the wires are also plugged into the stock factory wiring blocks for the switches. This makes my modification easily undone, should I ever desire to revert to stock switches.

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Top-down view of the switches in the console.

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The underside of the switch bank; notice the resistors and LEDs for nighttime illumination.

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Finished instillation with the wires hidden away. The switches sit flush and are not accidentally triggered by resting your arm on the center console.

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[jawn101]

That's a really great mod Chad. Any plans to sell kits? :)

[Dracula]

That's a really great mod Chad. Any plans to sell kits? :)

Thank you. I spent a few days designing a layout and prototyping what I thought would work. Dave S. found the people to turn my dream into a reality and deserves all the credit for making it happen. I merely paid for the project. For kits, the answer is no because the cost of such an undertaking wouldn't make it feasible.

One more picture:

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Can you tell that my car was a factory black interior?

[ccurzio]

I like how you framed it specifically to show off your backlit step plate. :)

[Dracula]

I like how you framed it specifically to show off your backlit step plate. :)

With the car in storage, I only have a few pictures handy.

[jawn101]

Thank you. I spent a few days designing a layout and prototyping what I thought would work. Dave S. found the people to turn my dream into a reality and deserves all the credit for making it happen. I merely paid for the project. For kits, the answer is no because the cost of such an undertaking wouldn't make it feasible.

One more picture:

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Can you tell that my car was a factory black interior?

It's a really good looking interior for sure. Newly covered seats always look so plush and comfy ;-)

[jfirios]

i found the stainless steel switches from a company and they were super cheap like 1.15 a switch. I am doing something like that with my car but more to the mod that protodelorean did. I am re creating his back shelf idea and back wall. I though am recessing my capacitor for the stereo in the center where he put his computer, and am covering it with a smoked plexi and lighting it from underneath. I am creating my own center console from a fiberglass mold i made and have the switches set into it so they are flush with the new console. The design again with the new rails from protodeloreans design. I though am re using the stock cover for the tunnel. I will post photos soon. It is coming along. Thanks for the photos, I should just wire the stock harness to the new switches with out cutting wires, which would be great.

[jfirios]

the thing is that i just want to hook the new switches to the harness. The switches arent a neg and positive type they are a flow through with the power so when you depress the switch it completes the circuit and makes the motor move one way or the other is that right? So I just connect each of the switches to the harness with a spade plug? I am not back lighting them like you did, so i wont need all the resistors and lights.
Is it that simple to just connect to the factory harness?

[Dracula]

Yes, it really is that easy to add spade connectors. That's really all the factory switches are and, with a similar configuration, the spades are nothing different than the factory setup with extensions.

[jawn101]

Yes, it really is that easy to add spade connectors. That's really all the factory switches are and, with a similar configuration, the spades are nothing different than the factory setup with extensions.

I've been thinking of doing exactly this, making spade connector extensions for the factory harness to the factory switches. That would allow for some more room between the switch panel and the transmission tunnel and should help keep the switches from "lifting"

[jfirios]

it seems easy enough, i was looking at the plug, there is the positive and neg wires in the middle and the motor wires on either side. I am just confused as to wireing. the switches i have are just two post buttons.

[David T]

If anyone is going to do mods to the window switch circuit there are several things they could (should) include:
Relays so the switches do not have to handle the full motor current
Multiple position so they can go partway down or fully down automatically
Child-proof, ie, you have to pull the switch up to go up.
If using remote door locking, the windows will automatically close if open.
If the inertia switch pops and unlocks the doors it can open the windows.
Lighted switches
A delay so you can operate the windows for a few moments after you turn off the ignition.
With modern electronics all of these features are not that hard to do and would not add a lot to the cost.
David Teitelbaum

[jfirios]

yes that is true with all the modern electronics it is easy to do. With our stone knives and bear skins we use, things are not so easy. I think the switches will be fine to handle the current. The ones i have you have to keep it depressed for the window to move. one button switch for each direction. here is a rough in for the fiberglass center with the window switches roughed in and the touch switch which controlls all my aux components, IE, foglights, led accent lights etc.

[Ron]

Even if they are rated high enough, I don't see how you could do it with four Single Pole Single Throw push button switches at all...you'd have to use Single Pole Double Throw to avoid relays etc...Something like this maybe:
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[DMCMW Dave]

Even if they are rated high enough, I don't see how you could do it with four Single Pole Single Throw push button switches at all...you'd have to use Single Pole Double Throw to avoid relays etc...Something like this maybe:
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i found the stainless steel switches from a company and they were super cheap like 1.15 a switch. .

BTDT. Check the current rating on those switches, I'll bet they are not enough to power the motor directly. Some I found were not even rated for enough current to power relays much less the motors.

Ron is correct, a simple two-terminal (i.e. SPST-MO) switch isn't going to work. The orignal switches are center-off-polarity-reversing switches, much more complicated.

I'd strongly suggest you get the switches actually working and making the windows go up and down before finalizing your fiberglass design. You also need to be absolutely sure that (if you are intent on doing this with two SPDT switches and no relays) that you can live with blowing the fuse everytime someone accidently hits both the up and down switch at the same time.

[jawn101]

before finalizing your fiberglass design.

Off topic a bit, but I'm also curious how you plan to replace your shift boot when it wears out with that current fiberglass design...

[jfirios]

i designed the fiberglass to hold the stock shift boot design. So it will be as easy as popping the old one off and putting the new one in. Not to mention i have a brand new shift boot anyway so the chances of it wearing out in the next 10 years is highly unlikely.

[Ron]

You also need to be absolutely sure that (if you are intent on doing this with two SPDT switches and no relays) that you can live with blowing the fuse everytime someone accidently hits both the up and down switch at the same time.Ugh...seems I can't find that problem if it's wired the way I posted?
I'll have to look at it later....

[David T]

The window switches are DPDT center off, momentary contact. That's how you do reversing. No one uses the switch directly to carry the motor current (except Lucas). Much cheaper to do it with fancy, low rated switches and higher power relays. You also need a circuit breaker, if you hold the switch and the window stops you will blow the fuse and it won't reset. This isn't Rocket Science. You just have to know what the loads are and use devices that are rated to handle the current.
David Teitelbaum

[Ron]

Ugh...seems I can't find that problem if it's wired the way I posted?
I'll have to look at it later....

Dave S,
I can't find an instance where it would pop the fuse...seems it would just cause the motor to do nothing???

========

Dave T,
There are A LOT of non-Lucas vehicles without relays...most of the older ones, actually -- They use "special" switches.

========

J,
Second Google pic shows a SPDT 15A for $7.99.
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You need four to do it with just switches.
The original circuit uses a 30A fuse (not a breaker, which IS better) with two motors possibly running at the same time, so I would use ones rated this high at least, preferably higher.

[jackb]

I'm formally requesting someone who does understand electronic things write up a how-to for this mod for the how-to sub forum.
Reading this thread is like rocket surgery to me. Mechanics, I get. Electrics... not so much.
I really don't understand it at all, and this is one of the few things I want to actually mod on my car.
Dracula's pictures bring me much closer to understanding than all the other writing in other posts, but not enough. I'm sure there are others out there in addition to me who also need an explanation of how this works/how to do it dumbed down to our level.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Even if they are rated high enough, I don't see how you could do it with four Single Pole Single Throw push button switches at all...you'd have to use Single Pole Double Throw to avoid relays etc...Something like this maybe:
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Your schmatic looks good as long as your switches "break before make". I'm not sure if all switches work that way. If not, of course you will momentarily short circuit the power to ground when you press any switch.

[DMCMW Dave]

The real problem is finding an acceptably decorative switch in the real world that does what you need it to do, and carries enough current to run the motor, even when locked at full travel, without self-destructing.

[jfirios]

so if i use the regular switches and then run a relay to supply the power, the switch just acts as the signal carrier. The question is then will i have to run the wireing to the motor from the new relays one for each direction or can i go from the relay to the factory harness? Wireing the relays is a joke, just need the space for 4 relays. One other question, can i run just one power line from the battery and branch it off to the relays or does each relay need its own dedicated line and fuse?

[aludden]

I saw these in the A1 website. Would they help you?
http://www.a1electric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AEOS&Product_Code=4980-21-007

[David T]

An easy way to do it is the way it's done in the later Lotus's, they have relays right in the door. Each relay does not need "dedicated" power, only 1 of the 2 should be running at any time. A walk through a junkyard should yield a handful of window switches. Take the plugs and some wire too.
David Teitelbaum

[jfirios]

Those are nice switches. But it will not match the ss look I am going for. I did ask Danny over at DMC cali and he said that the window motors do not use a relay, the harness just sends power directly to the motors. So I am not sure what way to go with this project.

[Ron]

Like I said, most cars don't use relays for the windows. The schematic I posted and the push-button switches I posted will work..just make sure that they 'break before make' like Bitsy said (these probably do...slider switches are the ones you usually have a problem with....). You can add a breaker to the main feed if you are prone to hold the button down too long.

Maybe this schematic is better....

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