Power window motor jacked up

[Henrik]

My right side power window motor won't quit when the window is closing and reaches the top. There is nothing making it stop and makes an awful clanking noise - just listen. You can also see in the video how the cable is coming out of its track when the motor keeps on going.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7s8QGyKq8s&context=C449205bADvjVQa1PpcFNKuXBw6jsUNFtmyFAZvRpo HKrntd0TnVg=

[DMCMW Dave]

My right side power window motor won't quit when the window is closing and reaches the top. There is nothing making it stop and makes an awful clanking noise - just listen. You can also see in the video how the cable is coming out of its track when the motor keeps on going.


There is nothing (no limit switch) to make it stop other than the motor locking up. The gear has stripped and/or the tube has spread open, now so it keeps running. Better start budgeting for a replacement, eventually it will quit working. Hopefully closed.

FYI - you should be in the habit of letting go of the switch just as the window closes. The mechanism will last much longer.

[Henrik]

There is nothing (no limit switch) to make it stop other than the motor locking up. The gear has stripped and/or the tube has spread open, now so it keeps running. Better start budgeting for a replacement, eventually it will quit working. Hopefully closed.

OK, thanks, Dave - I figured that. Is the limit switch replaceable or... will this require a full motor and assembly replacement? When I was describing this problem to Ed Uding at the DMCH Open House back in October he thought that the symptom sounded like my problem was a broken plastic bracket on the mechanism that usually can be riveted back together. Any idea what he may have had in mind?



FYI - you should be in the habit of letting go of the switch just as the window closes. The mechanism will last much longer.

Yep, I agree, I always do but I thought I'd keep it going just to make it clear what my problem is.

Thanks again for your input, Dave.

[DMCMW Dave]

OK, thanks, Dave - I figured that. Is the limit switch replaceable or... will this require a full motor and assembly replacement? When I was describing this problem to Ed Uding at the DMCH Open House back in October he thought that the symptom sounded like my problem was a broken plastic bracket on the mechanism that usually can be riveted back together. Any idea what he may have had in mind?


Yep, I agree, I always do but I thought I'd keep it going just to make it clear what my problem is.

Thanks again for your input, Dave.


There is no limit switch, never was. The motor just stops (until it doesn't). The only cars that have limit switches are the newer cars with auto-up windows since they have to be able to stop/reverse if there is a finger in the way.

We only replace the motors. They are sort-of repairable but the repairs are iffy and you have to go through the whole effort of taking it out of the door to try it, something I (as a shop) don't want to repeat on a customer car after a repair goes south.

Since your own labor is free, you can try repairing it but after taking it apart a couple of times that may lose it's allure. In your case, you may only need to crimp the tube back into shape and then quit leaning on the button.

I'm not sure what Ed is talking about, typically the failure is broken plastic parts, the tube being split, or stripped/broken drive gear.

[dmc6960]

Quick fix - Take your finger off the switch when it reaches the top!

Yea, listen to Dave on this one. This happens on both my window motors and has since I've owned my car. I still use the windows regularly and occasionally get the loud grind as its held too long or a passenger uses the switches. Also interesting is that I have an OEM motor in the passenger side, and a newer style replacement in the drivers side installed by a previous owner. BOTH of them have that issue of the worm gear popping out of the guide. I plan on replacing both this spring with new ones.

[Henrik]

Quick fix - Take your finger off the switch when it reaches the top!

Oh Jim, please spare me the obvious advice. I only did it for the video.


Yea, listen to Dave on this one. This happens on both my window motors and has since I've owned my car. I still use the windows regularly and occasionally get the loud grind as its held too long or a passenger uses the switches. Also interesting is that I have an OEM motor in the passenger side, and a newer style replacement in the drivers side installed by a previous owner. BOTH of them have that issue of the worm gear popping out of the guide. I plan on replacing both this spring with new ones.

Without limit switches - what tells the the motor to stop when the window gets to the top? My driver's side window works perfectly: When it gets to the top it stops by itself with no grinding and the button still pressed down, as you would expect. So from an engineering perspective, what makes it stop? Could it be that with the worm gear popping out of the track on my passenger side window when it gets to the top, there is not enough load to stop the motor so it keeps going??? Is that what it is? If so, all I need to do is to crimp the track back together?

[dmc6960]

Oh Jim, please spare me the obvious advice. I only did it for the video.

I was quite serious here! I've had both my motors do this since I've owned my car. It has never been worth my time to actually fix it yet. So my quick fix is taking my fingers off the switch before it goes clank.


Without limit switches - what tells the the motor to stop when the window gets to the top?

Nothing actually tells the motor to stop except you taking your fingers off the switch. It stops because it "stalls", from an engineering perspective. While this is technically how they are supposed to behave, as you've found out there is a problem with the worm gear popping out of the guide. This is happening because it can, and with the motor still going it pops out and runs out of worm gear. The clanking you here then is the bottom gear rubbing up against the motor's gear. Crimping the guide back together should prevent the gear from popping out, however that will require extreme care as if you crimp it too tight, it will completely bind on the worm gear; preventing movement, or requiring excessive current from the motor to move the window. Results from this will be more problems, either damaged switches, blown/melted fuses, or a completely broken regulator.

[deloumis]

I had this problem with both windows when i purchased my car. I pulled then both out, opened them up and turns out the gear inside the motor was cracked. My fix was file down the gears just enough to get it to work properly. As stated, there is nothing to stop the motor but pulling your finger off the switch. The reason it reaches the top and can't go any further, so it stops. But there is still current going into the motor so holding the switch down can damage it further.

My fix worked, but I still plan on replacing both motors. I would recommend if you can replace the motor, do it.

[robvanderveer]

When I just got my DeLorean, I used to drive with the windows open for the lack of a working A/C. I also used to relax my right arm on the console, accidentally pushing the window switching causing them to got clack-clack-clack-clack-clack. The clacking noise was the gears running out of track to grip. I didn't notice this because of the road noise.

To stop them from accidentally coming down, i just swapped pins on the switches.

[Henrik]

I was quite serious here! I've had both my motors do this since I've owned my car. It has never been worth my time to actually fix it yet. So my quick fix is taking my fingers off the switch before it goes clank.



Nothing actually tells the motor to stop except you taking your fingers off the switch. It stops because it "stalls", from an engineering perspective. While this is technically how they are supposed to behave, as you've found out there is a problem with the worm gear popping out of the guide. This is happening because it can, and with the motor still going it pops out and runs out of worm gear. The clanking you here then is the bottom gear rubbing up against the motor's gear. Crimping the guide back together should prevent the gear from popping out, however that will require extreme care as if you crimp it too tight, it will completely bind on the worm gear; preventing movement, or requiring excessive current from the motor to move the window. Results from this will be more problems, either damaged switches, blown/melted fuses, or a completely broken regulator.

Now that's great advice - thanks!

[Henrik]

I had this problem with both windows when i purchased my car. I pulled then both out, opened them up and turns out the gear inside the motor was cracked. My fix was file down the gears just enough to get it to work properly. As stated, there is nothing to stop the motor but pulling your finger off the switch. The reason it reaches the top and can't go any further, so it stops. But there is still current going into the motor so holding the switch down can damage it further.

Great advice. I will check it out. BTW, another thing I need to fix is the fact that the switch rubs against the console and tends to bind. It's hard not to panic sometimes when the darn thing is stuck and the window goes clank-clank-clank. Maybe that's why my wife never wants to ride :sad30:


My fix worked, but I still plan on replacing both motors. I would recommend if you can replace the motor, do it.

Looking in the parts manual it looks like you have to replace the entire thing: lift mechanism and motor, right? Or can you purchase the motor and mechanism separately?

[Dangermouse]

You replace the whole thing. The fragile part, as you have discovered is the mechanism. The new ones have a metal guide rather than the brittle (after 30 years) plastic guide. The motors themselves rarely seem to fail.

Unfortunately you can only buy a complete combo. Which in a way is good as it can be a bloody mess to install (depending on how sharp your doors are and how much masking tape you use). You would have to take the whole mechanism/motor combo out anyway to replace one of the components.

On mine, the plastic guide had snapped, rather than spread, but it resulted in the same thing with the worm gear coming out of the guide. i was able to use SS tie wraps (plastic ones just snapped) to hold it in place while I ordered a replacement. 18 months later, the replacement is still on the shelf. :biggrin:

[Henrik]

You replace the whole thing. Thanks.


... i was able to use SS tie wraps (plastic ones just snapped) to hold it in place... :biggrin: Hey - great idea. I might just try that!

[Henrik]

Against all odds I managed to fix the mechanism, and I am quite proud of the solution. First, let me show you the issue:

Here you can see how the guide has split apart to a point where when the window is at the top and the button is still depressed, the wire takes the path of least resistance (as you can see in the initial video) and starts coming out of the guide:
9825

After some thinking I kind of knew what I was needing and after some scrounging around at Home Depot I found the PERFECT part: A 3/8" PEX pipe. The shortest length it comes in is 5' which set me back a whopping $2.14 incl. tax. I then cut off about a 10" piece and, using a Dremel tool, slit it down the center:
9826

Finally, I shoved the PEX pipe onto the guide, all the way down to the lower end bracket (later, during installation I had to cut about an 1" off of the PEX pipe at the very top of the guide, or it would't fit between the door panel and the glass). This picture shows it partially installed (and let me tell you, it was a TIGHT fit, but that's a good thing):
9827

And finally, the result:

http://www.youtu.be/yUWOBaydxqQ

Works like new!