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mluder
04-24-2012, 01:38 AM
I posted this question under annother thred but wanted to also open it up to everyone.

A little Background. When I bought the car a year ago it would cold star with no problem but hot starts were an issue - 2-3 turns of the key. The previous owner had brought it back from a 10 year sleep and the fuel system was gone over by DMCNW. The fuel pump etc in the tank were replaced. New accumulator too. The only thing not done that were known to be faulty were the injectors. Several were not sealing correctly and leaking excess fuel into the cylindars. Eventually I started having cold start issues too. It would take two or three turns for the engine to fire all the time. I chalked this up to excess fuel leaking into the compustion chambers and causing a flooding issue as once the car would start, there was an excessive fuel smell. The mixture was also really rich and nothing would solve it and the car kept failing emissions testing.

About a month ago I discovered the test for checking rest pressure. In short, it was not holding at all. I replaced one of the o-rings on the primary pressure regulator on the fuel distributer. That seemed to fix the rest pressure problem and I was getting consistant starts hot or cold. At that time, I also replaced the fuel injectors with used ones that were better than the old ones - i.e. the spray pattern wasn't perfect but at least they sealed properly. I also replaced my O2 sensor and catalytic convertor - the old one was completely destroyed inside.

After all this work, I get consistant cold starts and the car passed emissions and I was able to dial in the fuel mixture on a dwell meter and get it damn near perfect so the fuel heavy exhaust smell is gone.

However, I still have terrible hot starts, 2-3 tries at least and now the car has died on me twice while driving and it won't re-start. Takes a good minute or so of trying. It's to the point where I'm almost afraid of flooding it.

To the hot start issue... I don't think I hear the fuel pump prime when the key is in the first position. I have noticed that my hot start relay in the compartment behind the passenger seat does have a relay plugged into it. I know some do, some don't. When I removed it, the car wouldn't start at all so I put it back.

Could the accumulator have failed prematurely? Would that cause it to die while driving?

Please help.

Steven

TTait
04-24-2012, 02:22 AM
Could be your rpm relay...?

Also, remember if it dies while you are still coasting you can just pop the clutch and get her going again...

mluder
04-24-2012, 03:29 AM
I thought I tried popping the clutch but lookingback on it now, in my panic I may have shifted into neutral. :banghead:

I'll check the RPM relay... Swap it out and see if anything changes.

Thanks again...

Cheers
Steven


Could be your rpm relay...?

Also, remember if it dies while you are still coasting you can just pop the clutch and get her going again...

Cory W
04-24-2012, 08:12 AM
Also check to be sure your RPM relay connections are tight. If they're loose, the relay itself could be fine but you'd experience intermittent problems like this.

Another thing to look at is the inertia switch wiring. Unplug it and see if there's any sign of melting.

David T
04-24-2012, 10:05 AM
Recheck your Rest Pressure. If it is not holding up your choices are:
a bad accumulator
an external leak
a leaking PPR
a leaking fuel pump check valve
Or you can confirm by doing the plug swap. If it starts right up don't mess with the fuel pump or it's wiring. Your problem is loss of rest pressure.
David Teitelbaum




Also check to be sure your RPM relay connections are tight. If they're loose, the relay itself could be fine but you'd experience intermittent problems like this.

Another thing to look at is the inertia switch wiring. Unplug it and see if there's any sign of melting.

mluder
04-24-2012, 02:00 PM
Also check to be sure your RPM relay connections are tight. If they're loose, the relay itself could be fine but you'd experience intermittent problems like this.

Another thing to look at is the inertia switch wiring. Unplug it and see if there's any sign of melting.

Thanks... Looked at the RMP relay last night and it has a vaque electrical smell. I'm not sure that's indicative of anything.

I hadn't though about the iniertia switch. I'll take a look at that.

Cheers.
Steve

Cory W
04-24-2012, 02:09 PM
Those were the first things I thought of when you mentioned the car dying as you drove. I had problems with my inertia switch in the past, and have recently dealt with a car with loose connectors at the RPM relay. In both cases, they'd cause the car to sputter and die intermittently.

Those won't solve the hot start problem, however. Basically, what Dave said above :)

mluder
04-24-2012, 02:10 PM
Recheck your Rest Pressure. If it is not holding up your choices are:
a bad accumulator
an external leak
a leaking PPR
a leaking fuel pump check valve
Or you can confirm by doing the plug swap. If it starts right up don't mess with the fuel pump or it's wiring. Your problem is loss of rest pressure.
David Teitelbaum

Accumulator is supposed to be new but maybne it failed prematurely.
No noticeable signs of a leak - smell, fuel on the ground.
I replaced one of the o rings on the PPR last month and that seemed to solve the previous rest pressure problem. I haven't tested it since.
The fuel pump and check valve were replaced by DMC NW at the time the accumulator was done but also could have failed prematurely.

By plug swap I assume you mean white for blue on the cold start valve?

Let me talk through this to make sure I have the theory right.
If I recall you put the white plug on the CSV and start it. If it works then I know I'm getting fuel delivery. So, when the engine is warm, the CSV does not engage and relies on fuel in the system to start (rest pressure). If I'm not holding pressure, there essentially no fuel in the system to fire the engine. Would this also rule out the thermotime switch? That is what tells the CSV to fire correct?

Thanks again, David.

Cheers
Steven

Bitsyncmaster
04-24-2012, 03:11 PM
Test your rest pressure again. I've seen both new accumulators and new o-rings fail quickly.

mluder
04-24-2012, 06:33 PM
Test your rest pressure again. I've seen both new accumulators and new o-rings fail quickly.

Will do...

Thanks again.

Cheers
Steve

TTait
04-25-2012, 03:52 PM
another possibility is that your filter screen is getting clogged or your pick up line is kinking. Drive with the radio off for a while, the pump will get very loud before it dies if this is what is happening, you should be able to hear it.

nkemp
04-26-2012, 01:49 PM
My car would periodically die. Sometimes it would start, multiple times it got pulled home or rode the flatbed.

I think (fingers crossed) that I traced the problem to faulty grounds. On a couple occasions it would restart when I moved a ground. One time the car was totally dead due to a bad ground on the trailing arm.

I ran a ground bus throughout the vehicle. The ground cluster just up from your accelerator foot is particularly bad and is the one grounding the fuel pump. Once I increased the ground at that cluster,the volt gauge read properly.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Nick

Citizen
04-26-2012, 03:45 PM
another possibility is that your filter screen is getting clogged or your pick up line is kinking. Drive with the radio off for a while, the pump will get very loud before it dies if this is what is happening, you should be able to hear it.

See my thread here (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3760-Collapsing-fuel-pickup-hose-Truth-or-fiction) regarding engine quitting while driving and a kinking fuel pickup hose.

mluder
05-09-2012, 06:17 PM
So at last weekends tech session I checked my rest pressure again and it's definately not holding. Come to find out that when I replaced the o-ring on the PPV I used regular black rubber instead of viton which is fuel safe. The regular black rubber will break down over time.

I'm headed to the hardware stire this afternoon to get the appropriate o-ring, unfortunately/fortunately I'm driving my car today so I cant take it apart to bring it with me. Anyone know the exact size of that o-ring.

Cheers.
Steve

Bitsyncmaster
05-09-2012, 06:39 PM
Original size is 2.00 mm ID and 4.00 mm OD. But I don't think you will find a Viton one locally.

mluder
05-09-2012, 07:21 PM
Original size is 2.00 mm ID and 4.00 mm OD. But I don't think you will find a Viton one locally.

Thanks for the info...

Rumor has it the Ace Hardware is a good possibility. I'll let you know.

Cheers.
Steve