Water, water, everywhere...

[ccurzio]

Okay not "everywhere" but it's enough to piss me off.

I've noticed a couple of times that a certain section of my interior carpet would spontaneously develop black spots. At first glance it would appear to be mold, but I can usually clean it up rather easily only for it to come back a few weeks later. I had no idea why this was happening.

Yesterday I figured it out, only to be presented with another question.

Every time my car gets wet, it apparently realizes it's thirsty and then attempts to drink the water. Whenever I wash the car, or if it rains, the floor behind and under the passenger seat becomes absolutely soaked. It's not dripping from above.

Where could this water possibly be coming from?

[Evildeli]

Maybe check where the seat belt bolts to the body. Part number #101872. There's a cap for it too, #106915. Mine were missing when I bought my car. Other spot to look is where the seats bolt to the body.

[dmc6960]

Get a hose and let it run on the passenger side of your windshield. Now pull back the carpet up front and see it if is entering there. If so, it could be two problems. First one, the easy one, is a plugged windshield drain. You'll need to open up the fuel pump access panel to get to the output of it. If plugged it will fill the fresh air intake with water and come in through the HVAC vents.

The other possible issue is much more difficult to repair. Assuming the drain is clear, water can still enter behind the HVAC box. There is an area of green adhesive (same stuff which is supposed to hold down the roof box) which attaches another panel to the fiberglass in that area. On my car, and confirmed on many others, this glue didn't fully cover the needed area. Thus leaving a gap for which water freely flowing down the windshield drain can also freely enter the body. Without removing the entire HVAC box, its near impossible to fix.

I know this affects the front of my car but the typical slope of the car has all the water going to the rear after it enters. Thats where I first noticed it on my car.

[David T]

Get the Service Bulletin on body water leaks and do all of the recommendations. That should fix it.
David Teitelbaum




Get a hose and let it run on the passenger side of your windshield. Now pull back the carpet up front and see it if is entering there. If so, it could be two problems. First one, the easy one, is a plugged windshield drain. You'll need to open up the fuel pump access panel to get to the output of it. If plugged it will fill the fresh air intake with water and come in through the HVAC vents.

The other possible issue is much more difficult to repair. Assuming the drain is clear, water can still enter behind the HVAC box. There is an area of green adhesive (same stuff which is supposed to hold down the roof box) which attaches another panel to the fiberglass in that area. On my car, and confirmed on many others, this glue didn't fully cover the needed area. Thus leaving a gap for which water freely flowing down the windshield drain can also freely enter the body. Without removing the entire HVAC box, its near impossible to fix.

I know this affects the front of my car but the typical slope of the car has all the water going to the rear after it enters. Thats where I first noticed it on my car.

[dmc6960]

Get the Service Bulletin on body water leaks and do all of the recommendations. That should fix it.
David Teitelbaum

Which is a good informative article btw... http://www.dmcnews.com/bulletins/ST-33-12.81.html

However it does not cover either situation I just described. So the service bulletin would not fix it, if my described problems were it.

[Ron]

Check under your battery...if it gets wet too, check this out. (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?93-Farrar-s-car-blog&p=52431&viewfull=1#post52431)

[nullset]

Are you running the A/C? There's a drain hose from the A/C that tends to get clogged.

Edit: Nevermind. That leak happens in the front passenger side, under the dash / in the footwell.

[ccurzio]

It's been a while since I've tried addressing this problem but it has not improved. My car has been sitting dry for several weeks now, but the carpet under the passenger seat is still soaked.

So I went ahead and yanked the seat out of the car entirely. I wanted to let the carpet air out and dry, and the only real way to do that is to pull it up from the floor. And of course the only way to do that is with the seat removed.

After I pulled up the carpet I found that the entire area is completely sopping wet. So I grabbed some shop towels and worked on soaking up as much water as I could pull up from the underfloor. And that's when I noticed that water continued pouring into the area from underneath the battery compartment. Every time I cleaned the area, more water would flow in from under the battery.

I finally dried everything up on the floor and water has (almost) stopped flowing into the area, but what the hell is this?

I looked at that pic you mentioned, Ron. I can't check that area. Also, the battery compartment itself stays bone dry. (Thankfully)

[Farrar]

I'd say look for holes in the body behind the rear speakers, but your VIN is way too late for that... :confused:

[jmettee]

I would suggest 2 things.

1) The large hole (~2" diameter) behind the rear speakers. Early cars had this, not sure when it was changed. There is weather seal to help keep water out, but it deteriorates & allows more leaks. No easy way to investigate this other than pulling the interior rear panels.

2) The top of the bulkhead connections panel in the right side of the engine bay. The water conveniently pools in the U shaped channel where the lower engine cover mates up, & if the nose of the car is downhill, that water will run out of the channel & can enter the interior from the top of the bulkhead connector panel if the sealant has separated. If it leaks in here, it will run past the fuse box area & to the floor area.

Easy way to determine this: pull the rear carpet wall & spray the car....look for water.

[ccurzio]

This problem has actually been fixed for a while. It was the AC drain tube.

Thanks!

[Marigolo]

First one, the easy one, is a plugged windshield drain. You'll need to open up the fuel pump access panel to get to the output of it. If plugged it will fill the fresh air intake with water and come in through the HVAC vents.

Hi, I think I'm having the plugged winshield drain problem (I'm sure it's not the AC because the car is not on when it happens). It happens every time I wet the windshield:
https://vimeo.com/71939601

Please excuse my ignorance, but which one is the fuel pump access panel? Is it the one in the photo?
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=21064&d=1375928737&thumb=1&stc=1

I opened it up but cannot find the drain (probably because I don't know what I'm looking for). If someone has time, would you be so kind as to post a quick pic to show me where it is located?

Also, this doesn't seem to be plugged or clogged with debris... Although the "damage" might be internal.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=21065&d=1375928826&thumb=1&stc=1

Any help or recommendations will be greatly appreciated.
Best,
Mario.

[Josh]

I'd say look for holes in the body behind the rear speakers, but your VIN is way too late for that... :confused:

My car has these holes in the body, and its a much later vin.

[Jonathan]

Please excuse my ignorance, but which one is the fuel pump access panel? Is it the one in the photo?
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=21064&d=1375928737&thumb=1&stc=1

I opened it up but cannot find the drain (probably because I don't know what I'm looking for). If someone has time, would you be so kind as to post a quick pic to show me where it is located?

Any help or recommendations will be greatly appreciated.
Best,
Mario.

The one you highlighted gets you down to where the brake fluid reservoir is.

The fuel pump and sender access is under the spare tire. Take the tire out and then you'll notice the edge towards the windshield can come out. Yours may be screwed in place or have some sort of RTV or gasket maker around the edge, but have a look and determine what is the best way to remove (without damaging it and not being able to put it back).

Here is an older photo of mine.

21066

[Marigolo]

The one you highlighted gets you down to where the brake fluid reservoir is.

The fuel pump and sender access is under the spare tire. Take the tire out and then you'll notice the edge towards the windshield can come out. Yours may be screwed in place or have some sort of RTV or gasket maker around the edge, but have a look and determine what is the best way to remove (without damaging it and not being able to put it back).

Here is an older photo of mine.

21066

Great! Thanks!

[DMCMW Dave]

One thing that's usually overlooked, and I never see it mentioned here, is the side door glass. When water goes into the door around the dropping glass (and believe me, it does) it tends to end up running down the inside of the plastic water shield that many people are fond of removing with razor blades and then not putting back at all. If that is not completely sealed at the bottom it will run off the bottom of the plastic and out from under the lower inner door panel. (You may have noted that factory even put RTV under it around the screws that hold the window motors in place, this is to keep the water from sneaking out from under the plastic where the stainless is recessed for the screws). It will soak into the carpet under the door (you will not see this with the door closed) and the through the carpet and on to the floor. A simple strip of masking tape across the bottom of the plastic shield is not enough. It must be sealed either with the factory sticky tape or something similar, and the RTV around the screws must be intact.

Ideally the plastic will direct the water back into the stainless part of the door and where it will then run out of the drain holes onto the sill plate.

Seal up the bottom of the glass and the ends of the rubber wipe seals as best you can, but the last line of defense is the plastic shield.

http://store.delorean.com/c-317-8-7-1-door-trim.aspx - part ID #9 is the water shield.

If you really want to see this in action, take off both door panels and have an assistant run water from a garden hose along the bottom edge of the door glass. Not high pressure water, but the open end of a garden hose with no nozzle.

[Marigolo]

One thing that's usually overlooked, and I never see it mentioned here, is the side door glass. When water goes into the door around the dropping glass (and believe me, it does) it tends to end up running down the inside of the plastic water shield that many people are fond of removing with razor blades and then not putting back at all. If that is not completely sealed at the bottom it will run off the bottom of the plastic and out from under the lower inner door panel. (You may have noted that factory even put RTV under it around the screws that hold the window motors in place, this is to keep the water from sneaking out from under the plastic where the stainless is recessed for the screws). It will soak into the carpet under the door (you will not see this with the door closed) and the through the carpet and on to the floor. A simple strip of masking tape across the bottom of the plastic shield is not enough. It must be sealed either with the factory sticky tape or something similar, and the RTV around the screws must be intact.

Ideally the plastic will direct the water back into the stainless part of the door and where it will then run out of the drain holes onto the sill plate.

Seal up the bottom of the glass and the ends of the rubber wipe seals as best you can, but the last line of defense is the plastic shield.

http://store.delorean.com/c-317-8-7-1-door-trim.aspx - part ID #9 is the water shield.

If you really want to see this in action, take off both door panels and have an assistant run water from a garden hose along the bottom edge of the door glass. Not high pressure water, but the open end of a garden hose with no nozzle.

Funny that you mention it Dave, because that was ONE of the leaks I had... It was actually through the weatherstripping of the toll window, and a LOT of water was getting in through there, but when I sealed it and water continued to leak on (in lesser quantities), I discovered it was also coming in through the vents (post and video above). So yeah, thanks for mentioning it!
So now, I have opened the fuel pump access panel... I assume one of these hoses is the one I'm looking for to check for plugs or debris that is stuck in there? Could someone tell me which one? Do I just un-tighten it and clean it?
Sorry about all the questions, but I've never done this before and wouldn't want to damage anything or end up in a worse situation. :wrenchin:
21070
(Not sure why it's posted upside down, the upload tool does that.)

Thanks!
Mario.

[dmc6960]

Those are your heater lines. The "drain" your looking for has no hose. It is a plain hole in the fiberglass directly above the fuel pump. When viewing from above its going to be hidden by the access plate mounting flange/lip. Get your head down there. I had just yesterday made a post pointing to it in a recent video a user here uploaded. But he has removed that video and I'm unable to point it out right now.

[dmc6960]

This should help...

21072

[Marigolo]

This should help...

21072

Ahhhh... "I see", said the blind man as he hit the wall....
You sir, are awesome. Thanks!

[Dangermouse]

Thanks Dave!!! I think that is where I'm getting some of my water ingress.

I just got from you a new rubber wiper seal for the drop glass and the outer seal for the fixed glass. (Probably aren't too effective just sitting on my shelf though). Hopefully that will seal up the passenger side.

[DMCMW Dave]

Thanks Dave!!! I think that is where I'm getting some of my water ingress.

I just got from you a new rubber wiper seal for the drop glass and the outer seal for the fixed glass. (Probably aren't too effective just sitting on my shelf though). Hopefully that will seal up the passenger side.

You need to do a good job caulking the seals in place, but since the window moves it is inevitable that some water will get in, especially in a driving rain. That's why the plastic seal is so important.

[Dangermouse]

You need to do a good job caulking the seals in place, but since the window moves it is inevitable that some water will get in, especially in a driving rain. That's why the plastic seal is so important.

At the moment the fixed window seal touched the door frame in only about 5 spots, so any ham-fisted installation will be better :).

As you suspect, most owners probably consider that plastic sheet as a "vapor barrier" and aren't too concerned about it (inc. yours truly). I'm fairly sure my drivers one is missing altogether, so I will make another.

Great info Dave.

[Marigolo]

The one you highlighted gets you down to where the brake fluid reservoir is.

The fuel pump and sender access is under the spare tire. Take the tire out and then you'll notice the edge towards the windshield can come out. Yours may be screwed in place or have some sort of RTV or gasket maker around the edge, but have a look and determine what is the best way to remove (without damaging it and not being able to put it back).

Here is an older photo of mine.

21066

Well, I guess I found what was blocking the drainage hole. It was this and much more... I guess it's a good idea to check this once in a while.
21256
Thanks! You guys were all great help!
M