Anyone have info on wind tunnel testing?

[Shep]

When I finally met the owner of my DeLorean this past Saturday to officially purchase it, he was at my house for a couple of hours talking about it. Great fun, and I learned quite a bit about the history of the car. Documentation turned out to be mostly service records (I'll post a thread later regardless), but he still has some in boxes as he just recently moved, and he said he'd pass them along as he finds them. Something in particular he said though really caught my attention, and after some research, I cannot seem to find any evidence either way on this one. It's a two-owner DeLorean (I'm the second owner), so he knows everything that ever happened prior to my purchase.

He pointed out fairly strong evidence that my DeLorean (vin 0559) was used in wind tunnel testing to some degree. Specifically to test the rear air vents. The driver's rear glass is flush with the stainless steel, as are all production DeLoreans. But the passenger's side rear glass is recessed about half an inch to an inch. It's very noticeable once you know about it. There's quite a bit of caulking (or sealant or whatever the term is) around the passenger's rear window, and I see absolutely no reason to recess the window that much and use that much caulking around the window if it was replaced due to an accident. Plus there's zero damage to the RR wheel and zero damage to the stainless steel and fiberglass in that area. This was done deliberately, and with 4,641 miles on the odometer, there's not a lot of wear and tear. None of my service records mention glass or window repairs, but they do list just about every other part on the DeLorean :hmm: (and they're over an inch thick combined -- I doubt any service records were lost on this one).

I know a large portion of DMC records are scattered amongst owners, DMC locations, and others with connections to the original DMC, so I'm wondering if anyone happens to have any information on wind tunnel testing. Specifically things like what areas were tested, how they were tested, ideally a listing of VINs used in testing, but really anything relating to wind tunnels or even a mention of them would be wonderful. So, who wants to be included in an episode of Mythbusters: DeLorean Edition? :hihi2:

[ccurzio]

I find it a little hard to believe that a production-line model would have been used for wind tunnel testing, at least by DMC themselves. There's nothing to say that it wasn't done on your car by a third party for whatever reason, but I sincerely doubt a random line car would be used for such a purpose. That kind of stuff gets hammered out in pre-production.

[dmcjohn]

With a vin as low as 559, it is not really a random production line DeLorean. Those earliest cars were used as engineering mules and company cars. So, it would be possible that this story is true.

Can you post a pic of the window in question?

Thanks,
John

[Shep]

I find it a little hard to believe that a production-line model would have been used for wind tunnel testing, at least by DMC themselves. There's nothing to say that it wasn't done on your car by a third party for whatever reason, but I sincerely doubt a random line car would be used for such a purpose. That kind of stuff gets hammered out in pre-production.From what I've read, VIN 559 is in the pre-production range, and the owner used that same term in referring to my DeLorean. VIN 558, one before mine, is allegedly a Legend Industries single turbo car as discussed here (http://pjgrady.co.uk//GenericContent.aspx?PageType=500_Chronology&ShowContent=Legend_VIN558.html), so it's not terribly out of the question.


Can you post a pic of the window in question?I'll do you one better: side-by-side comparisons of the driver's side and passenger's side windows, from a 3/4 angle and a side-on angle, that I just took a few minutes ago.

3/4 view:
1043310434

Side-on view:
1043510436

Please excuse the dust on the window -- I haven't had a chance to clean anything quite yet. Not truly side-by-side, but I can do that if someone requests it (I'm pretty handy with Photoshop and GIMP).

And yes, the color is accurate. Apparently whoever attached the passenger's window didn't even try to hide it with a darker color, which further adds to the "function over looks" side of this that wind tunnel testing calls for. As I said, it's very noticeable, but it's more the color than the depth that everyone saw when I first got it. I'll definitely point this out at car shows if I can find some evidence that supports it.

EDIT: Forgot to mention: both windows have the DMC logo on them, if that helps.

[vwdmc16]

That is strange. Maybe some turbulence there would assist is funneling air into the little air intakes at the back of the glass.

[Shep]

That is strange. Maybe some turbulence there would assist is funneling air into the little air intakes at the back of the glass.That's my guess as to what they were testing, if this was true. I can't think of any other aerodynamic test that can be performed on the rear glass other than how the air goes into the intake, since really that's all that resides back there.

[Rich W]

EMDF

I have plenty of photos of this car from back in 2006(?) when it was first listed for sale.

Spent hours with the original owner of the car (while in Vegas). The owner (Dick) was
hoping to get others interested in the car at the DOA Convention in Vegas, but the DOA
cancelled the convention and Dick lost his opportunity to spot-light the car at the event.

Some very interesting "engineering features" are also on this car.

Some other recent history you may be interested to know.

Later,
Rich W.

[jawn101]

EMDF

I have plenty of photos of this car from back in 2006(?) when it was first listed for sale.

Spent hours with the original owner of the car (while in Vegas). The owner (Dick) was
hoping to get others interested in the car at the DOA Convention in Vegas, but the DOA
cancelled the convention and Dick lost his opportunity to spot-light the car at the event.

Some very interesting "engineering features" are also on this car.

Some other recent history you may be interested to know.

Later,
Rich W.

If the history and features are interesting, don't leave us hanging! :)

[82DMC12]

I hope the OP won't mind if Rich divulges for our collective curiosity???

[Dangermouse]

Looks like residential window putty holding that glass in/on.

Any chance of a picture from the "inside"?

[Mike S]

Looking at the photos, it appears that the rear pontoons have the ‘textured’ finish, as opposed to the usual ‘smooth’ finish. I have seen this textured finish only once before, it was on an early VIN concours car at the DOA Expo 94 in Williamsburg, VA.

Mike S.

[jawn101]

Looking at the photos, it appears that the rear pontoons have the ‘textured’ finish, as opposed to the usual ‘smooth’ finish. I have seen this textured finish only once before, it was on an early VIN concours car at the DOA Expo 94 in Williamsburg, VA.

Mike S.

I have them too on #2100....

[Shep]

EMDF

I have plenty of photos of this car from back in 2006(?) when it was first listed for sale.

Spent hours with the original owner of the car (while in Vegas). The owner (Dick) was
hoping to get others interested in the car at the DOA Convention in Vegas, but the DOA
cancelled the convention and Dick lost his opportunity to spot-light the car at the event.

Some very interesting "engineering features" are also on this car.

Some other recent history you may be interested to know.

Later,
Rich W.Ooh, nice! I'd love to hear everything you know about VIN 559! Dick was the owner up until 2009 when he passed away, so his son (also named Dick) took up the torch. The reason I say I'm only the second owner is that the son never got a title transfer as he has the same name, so legally there's only two owners (technically one since I won't officially transfer the title until Saturday, but regardless). I'll send you a PM with my email in case you want to send me scans or anything, but I'd love it if you posted all you know in this thread.


Looks like residential window putty holding that glass in/on.

Any chance of a picture from the "inside"?Sure thing! Here you go, four that I just took a few minutes ago:
1045110452
1045310454

You can see the original markings on the glass with the DMC logo (first one is most legible zoomed in). I never inspected it from this angle before, it appears the glass is actually adhered to the stainless steel via this caulking, rather than being held in with some bracing behind it.


Looking at the photos, it appears that the rear pontoons have the ‘textured’ finish, as opposed to the usual ‘smooth’ finish. I have seen this textured finish only once before, it was on an early VIN concours car at the DOA Expo 94 in Williamsburg, VA.Good eye! It is indeed textured. I thought it might be dust or dirt or something, so I ran my hand across it, and it made that noise you get when you run your fingernail across one of those lenticular bookmarks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenticular_printing). You can see it up close in the pictures above.

[hollywood2311]

I have them too on #2100....

1776 has it too.

[Rich W]

EMDF,

If you happen to be attending DCS 2012 next month, I can bring you a CD of all the hi-res photos
taken back in 2006 (IIRC). The primary focus of the photos were on the parts that are unique to
the 500 series DeLoreans (and indeed, this extended to some of the 600 and 700 series cars too).

I also have a list of at least 50 items that are unique to the 500 series cars, after viewing and
comparing at least a dozen 500 series cars and having worked on a half dozen of them personally.
Most of the 500 series were Engineering cars and one thing they do have are plenty of "holes".

I recall VIN...559 having at least a dozen large holes cut into the "X" support under the hood,
with rubber caps installed. Dick Sr. mentioned something about early experimentation with the
routing of the wires for the inside hood lamp (in the middle of the X support). Seemed logical.

There were at least three large holes (or 4?) in each of the "legs" of the X support and all the
rubber caps are the same as the ones used for the brake fluid access cover. I recall how odd
it looked to have all those rubber caps on the inside of the hood.

Some other interesting info to follow.

Later,
Rich W.

BTW: Checking with EMDF via PM before posting some other details he may not want posted.

[Shep]

If you happen to be attending DCS 2012 next month, I can bring you a CD of all the hi-res photos
taken back in 2006 (IIRC). The primary focus of the photos were on the parts that are unique to
the 500 series DeLoreans (and indeed, this extended to some of the 600 and 700 series cars too).[I'm further discussing this with Rich via PM]


I also have a list of at least 50 items that are unique to the 500 series cars, after viewing and
comparing at least a dozen 500 series cars and having worked on a half dozen of them personally.
Most of the 500 series were Engineering cars and one thing they do have are plenty of "holes".

I recall VIN...559 having at least a dozen large holes cut into the "X" support under the hood,
with rubber caps installed. Dick Sr. mentioned something about early experimentation with the
routing of the wires for the inside hood lamp (in the middle of the X support). Seemed logical.

There were at least three large holes (or 4?) in each of the "legs" of the X support and all the
rubber caps are the same as the ones used for the brake fluid access cover. I recall how odd
it looked to have all those rubber caps on the inside of the hood.I thought those looked out of place. There are four, and I did notice they were the same as the brake fluid access cover. In case anyone's interested, here's the link to a picture of the area Rich is talking about [link (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4tu8rqvsbwy4bff/nCXysPs8-b/Pictures/Problem%20areas/Problem14.JPG)] (and scaled down to 640x480 here (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4tu8rqvsbwy4bff/46mCq9lPLs/Pictures/Problem%20areas/Resized/Problem14s.JPG) if anyone wants low-res). The reason the picture is named "Problem14" is that the top carpet is one of 21 problems I have yet to fix.


BTW: Checking with EMDF via PM before posting some other details he may not want posted.After reading Rich's PM, I told him I'd share the details myself, since all the info is still fresh in my head. Rich remembered seeing VIN 559 on a TV show, and indeed it was! The show's called Pawn Stars, airing on the History Channel, and the episode name is "Chum Dog Millionaire". The guy looking to sell VIN 559 on the show is the aforementioned son Rick, who came over last Saturday. He told me he posted an ad on craigslist trying to sell VIN 559. He got a call from someone working for the show asking if they can come over a month or so later to try and buy the car. Rick said he was moving within a week, so if they were willing to fly him back to Las Vegas where it was located, he'd be more than happy to be on the show. They asked to call him right back, and 45 minutes later, they asked if he would be available the next day at 7 AM. He agreed, so they sent the guys down there. Rick's very much like me in that he rarely wears plain colors, and most of his wardrobe has some sort of design on it. For the History Channel, this is a no-no, so he got a black T-shirt and wore it. They made him sign a confidentiality agreement, and anyone that was within sight of the camera either had to sign one as well, or be a very long distance away so they couldn't tell what was going on.

They started filming, and they talked about it (I haven't seen the episode yet, so don't spoil anything!). Then they offered him $8,000, and he just laughed. They stopped filming and said they wanted to just pretend they were going to try to buy it for the show, even though they had no interest in doing such since it was way out of their price range. So they did a second take, and left. He didn't get a T-shirt, mug, hat, copy of the episode, no certificate, nothing. They didn't tell him when it was going to air either, so one day weeks or months later he's driving his truck, and suddenly he's getting calls like crazy. He's in an area that has spotty reception, so he waits until he's in a better area, and he had at least 22 voicemails "from people he hadn't heard from since high school", asking why he didn't tell them he was going to be on the show. Confidentiality agreement means he couldn't. But hey, it's just more to the already fascinating history of VIN 559.

[Dangermouse]

Do a search on here for Pawn Stars and you will find it.

I'd do it for you but it's too much of a pita on the phone :)

[SIMid]

This has been an interesting read! :)

Love to know all the items as I want to see if I can spot them on my D. I do have the textured pontoon.

[Dangermouse]

Do a search on here for Pawn Stars and you will find it.

I'd do it for you but it's too much of a pita on the phone :)

mmm, looks like I lied - it isn't on here.

This is the best I can do, and it's not great (doesn't spoil anything for your though):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO1WyExAqXc

[David T]

This kind of topic comes up once in a while in all car Marques. It makes a car more interesting and maybe worth more money. Without any paper trail or photos it is just conjecture. Like saying the car belonged to someone famous. It may also be possible some of this was done in a QAC center or the parts were used as engineering mock-ups before being released to use for production cars. Without some kind of paper we are all just guessing. You have to be very skeptical about only a verbal history.
David Teitelbaum

[Shep]

mmm, looks like I lied - it isn't on here.

This is the best I can do, and it's not great (doesn't spoil anything for your though):

[video]Oh yeah, that's Rick. I don't have sound at the moment, but I recognize him.



This kind of topic comes up once in a while in all car Marques. It makes a car more interesting and maybe worth more money. Without any paper trail or photos it is just conjecture. Like saying the car belonged to someone famous. It may also be possible some of this was done in a QAC center or the parts were used as engineering mock-ups before being released to use for production cars. Without some kind of paper we are all just guessing. You have to be very skeptical about only a verbal history.I wouldn't call it "skeptical" so much as "cautious". I can't go around saying this is 100% undeniable fact without a paper trail or photos, I'll give you that, but it's still a piece of history regardless. Even if no proof surfaces, I'll still prefix such statements with "it is thought" etc. since it's too noteworthy to just ignore entirely. That middle bit though, about the QAC center and the engineering mock-ups, may actually be another clue in this mystery. It was a "pre-production" car, not actually intended for the US market, so it would make sense that pieces used in testing were just thrown on any given 500 VIN DeLorean so they wouldn't go to waste. Such an act has no reason to be documented. So perhaps I should instead be looking for whether or not the testing said to be done to VIN 559 was done at all rather than done to this D. Hmm...:umm:

[Shep]

Forgot to post an update in this thread, but it turns out 559 was NOT part of wind tunnel testing, for the same reason 559 has a non-DMC rearview mirror and a fender antenna. It's part of the whole Chestnut Fleet Rentals ordeal (more details in the last two paragraphs of Post 49 (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?4117-VIN-559-Captain-s-Log&p=69845&viewfull=1#post69845) of my 559 thread), but long story short there was a period in the early 80's (after DMC's collapse) where 559 was in storage, probably outside. During this time, much of the glass was broken, including the windshield and the passenger rear quarter-panel glass. It was presumably done by vandals or the elements, but regardless CFR wanted their DeLoreans sold ASAP and didn't care about accuracy or how presentable it was. They got a replacement piece of rear quarter-panel glass and stuck it in there with run-of-the-mill residential window putty. It fits and functions fine, but this caused the window to be recessed quite heavily.

This glass replacement was all done before the original owner purchased the car from CFR. Unless Rich W told the original owner this bit of 559's history when he saw him in 2006, I have no reason to believe he knew why the window was like that. I do find it incredibly strange how it seems no other DeLorean in existence has had this kind of rear window treatment, but it's not related (directly anyways) to the original DMC. So this myth is busted.