Wheel bearing?

[82DMC12]

Hey all, I'm taking off the rotors to get them turned. The rears came off fine. I'm taking off the passenger side front and the bearing looks like half of it is on the spindle, the rest in the hub. Is this normal or do I need wheel bearings now too? http://img.tapatalk.com/a6fae24e-463a-25a7.jpg

[opethmike]

You need wheel bearings now.

[82DMC12]

That's what I thought. I actually have a set of bearings believe it or not.

Question :was this avoidable? And how do you get the rear rotor off the hub? The part that has the lug studs in it.

Andy

[Cory W]

The rear rotor is held on by friction and a screw. Remove the screw (large hex-head) completely and the apply whatever blunt force you deem necessary to separate the rotor from hub. Remember that you want to reuse it, though.

[DMC02766]

If you use a propane torch you can heat the rotor around the hub and it will make the hub come out a lot easier if its stuck. Its an old trick my grandfather taught me and it has come in handy on more than one occasion with rotors.

[82DMC12]

Corey, and you mean this screw?

http://img.tapatalk.com/a6fae24e-4cf7-e7f9.jpg

[DMCMW Dave]

Corey, and you mean this screw?

http://img.tapatalk.com/a6fae24e-4cf7-e7f9.jpg

Yes. Is this a photo the car in question? Because you rarely see one the way it shows in the photo - normally for brake work you don't take the entire hub off the car, you leave it in place and take the rotor off. (I.E. don't remove the large nut!)

[82DMC12]

Yup that's the one I'm doing. What was the correct way? Hopefully I didn't mess something up! Can I just put it back on and torque it? Used an impact to get it off.

Andy

[DMCMW Dave]

Yup that's the one I'm doing. What was the correct way? Hopefully I didn't mess something up! Can I just put it back on and torque it? Used an impact to get it off.

Andy

The danger is that putting the hub back in may cause the rear bearing to come apart (like the front) if you don't do it correctly. Since it apparently came out pretty easy you may be OK, but you need to pull the hub down with the nut rather than hammering it in to place through the bearing.

[EarlHickey]

Yup that's the one I'm doing. What was the correct way? Hopefully I didn't mess something up! Can I just put it back on and torque it? Used an impact to get it off.

Andy

Andy Eddie to get the counter sunk allen screw out positively every time, impact it sharply flat across it's face. This will tend to break the bond created by at least galvanic corrosion between the two dissimilar metals along the counter-sunk screw's taper and it's flange as well. Put valve lapping compound on your allen key or socket to assure you don't strip the likely marginal allen head to the point of cussing. An impact driver is a good tool for removing this screw, not the same as a burp gun, the one you hit with a hammer.

[82DMC12]

Yeah no problem coming off! I cleaned the splines with some wd40, blew off with air gun, and the hubs slid all the way back on so I didn't even use the nut to draw them on. Torqed to 75, rotors came off super easy. Should be good.

I don't see how the rear bearing could come apart since it's so far into the carrier. I assume the problem is if you whack on the hub too hard it damages the bearing?

Oh well I think I'm in good shape! Just need to replace the front bearings.

[DMCMW Dave]

Yeah no problem coming off! I cleaned the splines with some wd40, blew off with air gun, and the hubs slid all the way back on so I didn't even use the nut to draw them on. Torqed to 75, rotors came off super easy. Should be good.

I don't see how the rear bearing could come apart since it's so far into the carrier. I assume the problem is if you whack on the hub too hard it damages the bearing?

Oh well I think I'm in good shape! Just need to replace the front bearings.

Sometimes they are a very tight fit on the hub and will blow apart like your front one did. You got lucky!

[EarlHickey]

Corey, and you mean this screw?

http://img.tapatalk.com/a6fae24e-4cf7-e7f9.jpg


Oh, I see it's not an allen, just glanced quickly.

Snap On ACR-R bit with lapping compound in an impact driver.

Replace with allen head counter sunk screw, probably the same as a BMW or Benz.

I can't say anyone has ever offered compelling reasons to use a phillips headed screw for any application except they are cheaper than allens or torx..... and maybe the originality thing.

[Bitsyncmaster]

From what I've seen, That front bearing coming apart is normal if you still have original bearings on the car. The only thing that holds the bearing together is the rubber seal.

[Elvis]

+1

my front bearings always come apart like yours.

I once even found a bad ball in my bearing thanks to the fact
that it came apart like that. That solved the question - why my
steering wheel was shaking in left turns but not in right turns.

After I replaced that bearing 1-2 years ago I now had to work
on the brake discs and guess what - the new bearing came apart
exactly like the old one.

Reuse it, you will see it is still good.

[82DMC12]

Hmmm. On my own car my passenger side bearing came apart just like this and I just put it back together and have been driving on it ever since.... Probably 3 years ago? Now that I saw it happen to both sides on 11114 it makes me ask what's up. Since this car was sitting so long and I have to bring the discs in for turning anyway i'll just have the machine shop press some new bearings in.

[Morpheus]

You are always better off pressing in new bearings if the old bearings separate during removal. Even if you manage to get it back together, you've still compromised it.

[Elvis]

So you say I have to replace the bearing each time I take the hub off ?

[Morpheus]

Not unless you are able to (carefully) keep them intact.

$16 a pop isn't all that bad for new bearings; after all, how often are you pulling those front hubs?

[Bitsyncmaster]

If your hub is not sticking to the bearing then you probably can pull it off carfully without it seperating. When I installed new bearings, I greased the hub and was able to pull it off later with no problems.

[82DMC12]

Dave, what kind of grease? Regular wheel bearing grease? My machine shop is pressing the new bearings in right now. Hope to reinstall tomorrow.

Andy

[Elvis]

is a $16 bearing worth to be used ???

just because you can get it cheap doesn't mean it is good.
A $16 bearing probably costs less than $2 in production ! OUCH !


I had trouble with my brake discs and in ~10 years I have taken it off more than 5 times.
The only reason I have new bearings now is because I swapped the whole hub.

It's just the rubber seal that holds the bearing together when you pull it off !!!!


The next owner who has to take it off and reads your comments thinks he broke
his bearing now and wants to swap it, loses time and money, does more harm to
the hub than ever needed - for what ?
The bearing is perfect !
Clean it, use new lubricant (I use Molycote grease) and drive that car !

And if it's really bad - you'll hear it soon. yes, just some noise, that's all - if it goes bad.

If I'm wrong - why did it work for me several times ?


I once had a bad ball in a brand new bearing !!!!! I took the hub off, that ball fell down
and the problem was found immediately. I used a new SKF bearing for ~€80 and
the problem was gone. I had that SKF bearing "open" also several times with no problem.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Dave, what kind of grease? Regular wheel bearing grease? My machine shop is pressing the new bearings in right now. Hope to reinstall tomorrow.

Andy

I used wheel bearing grease. It is so thick, it stays put even when it gets wet.

[Morpheus]

is a $16 bearing worth to be used ???
just because you can get it cheap doesn't mean it is good.
A $16 bearing probably costs less than $2 in production ! OUCH !


True, but a compromised rubber seal can't be any better.



I had trouble with my brake discs and in ~10 years I have taken it off more than 5 times.
The only reason I have new bearings now is because I swapped the whole hub.

It's just the rubber seal that holds the bearing together when you pull it off !!!!


If you have had to remove your front hubs more than 5 times in 10 years, then perhaps re-using separated bearings is the least of your troubles.



The next owner who has to take it off and reads your comments thinks he broke
his bearing now and wants to swap it, loses time and money, does more harm to
the hub than ever needed - for what ?
The bearing is perfect !
Clean it, use new lubricant (I use Molycote grease) and drive that car !

And if it's really bad - you'll hear it soon. yes, just some noise, that's all - if it goes bad.


That's a lot of effort in order to avoid spending $16 for a new part.


If I'm wrong - why did it work for me several times ?


I once had a bad ball in a brand new bearing !!!!! I took the hub off, that ball fell down
and the problem was found immediately. I used a new SKF bearing for ~€80 and
the problem was gone. I had that SKF bearing "open" also several times with no problem.

Nobody said you were wrong. Hey it's your car, you can do what you want with it. Most people will only need to remove their front hubs every 3 or more years (maybe longer), if their car isn't driven often. By simply adding some wheel bearing grease to the spindle before sliding the hub back on, you can probably save your bearing the next time it is removed. I never said bearings aren't re-usable, but popping a 30+ year old bearing back together and crossing your fingers just to save $16 is a bit foolhardy, IMO.

If $16 is too much for a "possibly bad" NOS bearing, Hervey has "new" bearings for $14 each. Just sayin'.
10456

[Tillsy]

Hey all, I'm taking off the rotors to get them turned. The rears came off fine. I'm taking off the passenger side front and the bearing looks like half of it is on the spindle, the rest in the hub. Is this normal or do I need wheel bearings now too? http://img.tapatalk.com/a6fae24e-463a-25a7.jpg

I have removed both my front hubs (eventually, took a lot of effort) and, very much like the above picture, part of the bearing is stuck mighty tight on both axles. How do I get them off? Picture of what both sides of mine look like :(

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18027&d=1365512806

[Bitsyncmaster]

The inner race would normally just slide off with your fingers pulling it. A lot of people have found them frozen on the axle. Most just carefully cut them with a Dremel cut off disk. You would not have to cut all the way through the race. Just leave a little shy of the axle and hit it with a cold chisel.

[Tillsy]

The inner race would normally just slide off with your fingers pulling it. A lot of people have found them frozen on the axle.

Mine were both fused, basically had to use the Apollo rocket engines to pull them off.



Most just carefully cut them with a Dremel cut off disk.

Was figuring this might be the answer - wasn't keen on the old blow torch trick here. Bummer - will whip the Dremel out tonight...

Cheers!

[Elvis]

It's almost off - use a puller and be done in a minute.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/3PC-3-Jaw-Gear-Puller-Set-Bearing-Puller-Auto-Mechanic-Gear-3-4-6-Gear-Pulley-/121066969483?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item1c3027598b&vxp=mtr

[Tillsy]

It's almost off - use a puller and be done in a minute.

Cheers - I used a steering wheel puller with a couple of washers and nuts on the end to wedge behind the race, began screwing and off they both came! Thanks for that!


So my next saga - figured I'd slide the new bearings on to ensure a nice smooth fit. Nope - tight as all hell, didn't even get to push them a mere millimetre on and they were already wedged. Finally got them off again, took a lot of force even though they weren't even really on, and luckily did not pull the bearings to bits.

Aren't these buggers meant to slide on/off - why have I got such an insane tight fit? Wonder if some grease will solve this...?

[Elvis]

Well, clean the suface and use some oil or WD40. It should just slide on.
You may want to use some scotch brite or similar to clean the surface.

BTW - and I repeat myself - just because the one part remained on the shaft
doesn't mean the bearing is bad at all.

I know others tell different stuff, but yeah, well, different opinions but the
car runs the same...

[Tillsy]

Well, clean the suface and use some oil or WD40. It should just slide on.
I did spray some WD40 when I did it last night but it wedged anyway.



just because the one part remained on the shaft
doesn't mean the bearing is bad at all.
I'm doing this job because the bearing is indeed bad - started making a horrendous noise on my return 1500km trip from Sydney.

[Tillsy]

Got the bearings pressed (after a range of issues but finally got done) and tried sliding back on - absolutely no go per my prior test fittings.

Applied a teensy amount of bearing grease on the stub and inner of bearings and she practically glided on :)