Very high mileage engine worth the rebuild?

[Nick774]

Hey everybody! As some of you know Im fully restoring vin 774. Ive had the car for two months now and progress is being made at a great rate. As of now I have the chassis rolled out and from what I learned from Chris Piazza (PO) the engine has somewhere over 400,000 miles..... What Im having trouble is debating on wether to fully rebuild the engine or use the time and money to just swap it out? Ill be opening the block hopefully this week so ill be able to tell what the situation is inside but after sitting for ten years and with the mileage it has im curious what your opinions may be. I would prefer to keep the engine but I dont know yet if that will be possible. Help...?

[WelmoedJ]

Any particular reason to decide a rebuild?

If oil pressure, fuel consumption, behavior, etc are okay, why should you want to do this?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Welmoed.

[thirdmanj]

I've been hearing good things about the Eagle Premier 3.0 PRV engine. I've yet to see it in action myself, but Josh at DPI seems to think they are the way to go. Maybe that'd be a more cost effective option for you.

[David T]

That's a lot of mileage, even for a PRV. I would do a compression test and plastiqauge the bearings. If it is very worn (and it probably is) it is probably better to replace the whole thing. The best option (not the cheapest) is to consider getting a Stage II.
David Teitelbaum



I've been hearing good things about the Eagle Premier 3.0 PRV engine. I've yet to see it in action myself, but Josh at DPI seems to think they are the way to go. Maybe that'd be a more cost effective option for you.

[stevedmc]

Rebuilding the engine gives you more to brag about. Imagine 20 years down the road when you cal tell people you are driving on the original 50 year old engine with 666,666.66666666666666666666666667 miles on it.

Seriously, I did the math and his car has been driven 13,3333.333333333333333333333333 miles per year. Multiply that by 50 years and you've got a scary number.

[dvonk]

you know, steve, fractions are more accurate (and more concise) than decimals... :lol:

[stevedmc]

you know, steve, fractions are more accurate (and more concise) than decimals... :lol:

Yeah but I'm an idiot and a troll so it doesn't really matter anyway.

[LEVY]

With such a low VIN, I believe you should rebuild. Worn bearings, no problem, just replace bearings, you should anyways. Low compression? No problem, replace rings but you should replace the whole set, pistons, sleeves and rings.

Go Steve's way!







Hey everybody! As some of you know Im fully restoring vin 774. Ive had the car for two months now and progress is being made at a great rate. As of now I have the chassis rolled out and from what I learned from Chris Piazza (PO) the engine has somewhere over 400,000 miles..... What Im having trouble is debating on wether to fully rebuild the engine or use the time and money to just swap it out? Ill be opening the block hopefully this week so ill be able to tell what the situation is inside but after sitting for ten years and with the mileage it has im curious what your opinions may be. I would prefer to keep the engine but I dont know yet if that will be possible. Help...?

[jawn101]

With such a low VIN, I believe you should rebuild. Worn bearings, no problem, just replace bearings, you should anyways. Low compression? No problem, replace rings but you should replace the whole set, pistons, sleeves and rings.

Go Steve's way!

Definitely agree. It all depends on your personal plans for the car, but I'm a big fan of keeping the original motor and making it work. Amazing that yours has made it so many miles - I wonder if it's a record? Unless there's something major wrong in the block when you get in there, I say why stop now? :)

[DMC3165]

I'm glad to see my water pump and rear springs have survived all after all this time :)

In all seriousness the last time I heard that engine run it had alot of valve train noise in addition it would constantly run hot. Rob Grady verified the mileage for me. I was told the previous owner had used the car as a daily driver from the early 80's to the mid 90's right up until I bought it in 98.

It did have low oil pressure. But I was thinking about this recently. Maybe you might be able to get away with doing the cams and heads as well as new main bearings. But in all truth if your going to open up the motor you might as well just do the whole thing.

Also did you try and start it at all? It did run last time I saw it. But that was a very long time ago.

Great progress so far Nick!

[SoCalDMC12]

Definitely agree. It all depends on your personal plans for the car, but I'm a big fan of keeping the original motor and making it work. Amazing that yours has made it so many miles - I wonder if it's a record? Unless there's something major wrong in the block when you get in there, I say why stop now? :)

I think DMC-CA has a customer with 500k on the clock, and another with over 400k... so no record here. I'm kinda like the idea of a rebuild to see how much further it will go.

[jawn101]

I'm glad to see my water pump and rear springs have survived all after all this time :)

In all seriousness the last time I heard that engine run it had alot of valve train noise in addition it would constantly run hot. Rob Grady verified the mileage for me. I was told the previous owner had used the car as a daily driver from the early 80's to the mid 90's right up until I bought it in 98.

It did have low oil pressure. But I was thinking about this recently. Maybe you might be able to get away with doing the cams and heads as well as new main bearings. But in all truth if your going to open up the motor you might as well just do the whole thing.

Also did you try and start it at all? It did run last time I saw it. But that was a very long time ago.

Great progress so far Nick!

I love a car with a history! Fix that bad boy!! :)

[Dangermouse]

So Chris, what was the mileage in 1998?

Then Steve needs to redo his super precise math.

[Nick774]

Ok so with all of your opinions and words of wisdom a rebuild is the way to go, new pistons, rings, bearings, etc. My next quetion is being that I dont have the exact mileage and the odometer currently reads 21,000, when all is done and road worthy should I roll the odometer back to zero considering i will have ALL NEW components in the block as i intend to replace everything?

P.s. As i just typed this my girlfriend sat stunned at the tv as the old spice sand delorean commercial ive been waiting for appeared and didnt redirect my attention....damn the irony

[jawn101]

should I roll the odometer back to zero considering i will have ALL NEW components in the block as i intend to replace everything?


Broken or not, I do *not* think this is legal.... tread cautiously. Your odometer won't match your Carfax or any records kept previously and might make for a very sticky situation down the road.

[LEVY]

I would leave the odometer alone. Just make sure you keep good records of everything you did to your vehicle. Being that old I don' t believe it is illegal but vehicle reports may flag your vehicle as odometer roll back. If you insist on setting your odometer back to zero, go to a company that specializes on odometers, they would do it for you, attach a label with the old mileage and report it to the proper agencies.

LEVY

[David T]

Legally the only way you can change the odometer reading (besides driving the car!) is to have the head serviced by a speedometer shop. Then you must attach a label on the door post indicating what the mileage was before and after the service. Not worth it. Just record the #'s in a service log. Anything else is tampering and is subject to Federal Law. This is to try to keep used car dealers "honest"!!!!!!!!! It might be cheaper to just replace the liner-piston-rings as a set. It depends on how you can buy it. If you can buy sets, that is the way to go. To replace the bearings you may have to have the crank ground. Don't buy anything till after you have a shop measure everything so you know if you are going oversize and to what size. The cams must be checked too and you should probably replace the chains. If it's a 5-speed the flywheel may also have to be ground. After all of the machining you want all of the rotating and reciprocating parts balanced. You are also going to do a valve job on the heads.
David Teitelbaum

[stevedmc]

Legally the only way you can change the odometer reading (besides driving the car!) is to have the head serviced by a speedometer shop.

That isn't true for all states. In Louisiana the odometer reading doesn't matter, legally, on cars ten years or older.

The following information was retrieved from http://dpsweb.dps.louisiana.gov/omv1.nsf/58c968bd569b099986256cdc000806eb/e2e6d829a4eea90b862564c7004fe372?OpenDocument

EXEMPTIONS to the Truth in Mileage Act requirements are as follows:

A. Motor vehicles that are *ten (10) calender years old or older. Determination of exemptions can be made by using the formula: current calendar year minus 10
Example: 1994 (current calendar year) minus 10 = 1984 and prior years are exempt

Please note that the vehicles listed above are exempt from ALL requirements of the Truth in Mileage Act. The word "EXEMPT" must be entered in the odometer for vehicles which are ten (10) calendar years old or older

[ccurzio]

I like how they actually had to spell out for you Louisiana folk how to do the math to figure out whether your car is ten years old or not.

[stevedmc]

I like how they actually had to spell out for you Louisiana folk how to do the math to figure out whether your car is ten years old or not.

Thats nothing. When I was a kid I witnessed an adult (about 20 years old) having a government worker help him read the driving test. Back then the written test was still on paper and the man didn't know how to read, yet he was given someone to read the test and circle the answers he chose.

[LEVY]

That isn'true for Texas either and maybe for most staes if not all!

Regarding the label, it must be attached by the shop and not by you and they will do it wheter you want it or not!


LEVY



Legally the only way you can change the odometer reading ................. Then you must attach a label on the door post indicating what the mileage was before and after the service. ..........Anything else is tampering and is subject to Federal Law.....
David Teitelbaum

[nullset]

The odometer only counts up to 99999.9 miles, and it's well past that, so I believe it doesn't matter if it's past the mechanical limit. Again, depends on your state.

If this car/engine has >100k miles on it, the odometer reading is pretty much irrelevant.

--buddy

[David T]

All of this does depend on the State in which you live and the car is registered in. Many States take the odometer reading very seriously and do not like it when it is tampered with. Same with the vin #. I agree the mileage on a 30 year old car is not very important but from time-to-time you see someone who is selling a car and touts the LOW mileage. On E-Bay there is a car right now with around 300 original miles (or so they claim). They are trying to get a premium for that so mileage can matter. Which is why many States take any tampering so seriously. That is Fraud, selling something that is not what it really is and misrepresenting it as such. The best advice is to not mess with the odometer. Besides, on a Delorean you always have to be skeptical of the mileage. We all know how reliable the cable system is to the speedometer. And when that breaks the odometer stops too.
David Teitelbaum




The odometer only counts up to 99999.9 miles, and it's well past that, so I believe it doesn't matter if it's past the mechanical limit. Again, depends on your state.

If this car/engine has >100k miles on it, the odometer reading is pretty much irrelevant.

--buddy

[DMC3165]

Back when I first bought the car Rob Grady told me the original owner used the car as a daily driver everyday for over 15 years. He lived in Long Island and commuted to Newark Nj. A 100+ mile commute at a minimum. Last time Rob saw it before I bought it the car already had well over 200K and that was in 94or95. When I first bought it someone had changed the rims,painted the fascias and presumably used the car for 3 or 4 years until I picked it up. At that time the odometer read 15 or16K. Rob assumed it was 315 or 415,000 miles no one was really sure. Being Ipurchased it from a used car dealer he was reluctant to tell me where he got it from or what the true mileage was, because like so many of you had pointed out in NY state any car over 10 years old is exempted from reporting mileage. At the time finding a previous owner was very difficult and carfax didn't exsisit yet. But if you do the math 120 miles a day five days a week adds up to 561,000 for 15 years. We didn't think it had quite that many miles on it but who knows.

I put some mileage on the car but 774 was more the I could handle at the time. I sold it to a car dealer in early 2001 and haven't seen it until Nick picked it up a few months ago. From what Nick told me it sounds like the car has been sitting under a tarp for the last 11 year's but he could explain that better then me. From everything I've heard I don't doubt that the 21,000 on the clock now is only a few thousand miles more then the original 15 or 16,000 I bought it with and I'm pretty sure it had 19 or 20 on it when I sold it.

[Nick774]

Soooooo 774 has possibly 621,000 miles if i read this correctly.... if that is true then this has to be the record for any Delorean i would think. Ill just leave the speedo where it is. Thanks everybody for all your feedback and thanks chris for the historical equation :driving1:

[Dangermouse]

Not that it matters, but I think 321000 is more likely.

My thinking, based on what Chris says is - reportedly >200k in 94/95; so say it was 250k in 95, thats around 18000 per year. Add another 3 years worth to 98 when chris gets it and you are at 304000, close enough to the 315000 that Rob thought it might be. Chris sells it at 319000/320000 and it sits for 10 years.

of course it could be 421000 - 120 mile commute x 5 days x 50 weeks x 14 years = 420000, again close to the x15,000 that chris picked it up with.

But really, who knows. Still a pretty damn high mileage DeLorean, one of the top 10 probably

[FLUXING]

Call Josh at DPI in Ohio - he'd know what's worth restoring and what's not...