Passenger-side wiper fluid tank?

[Shep]

I found what is potentially yet another factory modification with VIN 0559. I have six rubber caps (brake fluid access covers if I recall correctly) under the hood of my D. One in the usual spot, four in the hood (light wiring experimentation; visible in all photos below), but I came across a new one recently that I hadn't seen before.

On the left (driver's) side, the windshield wiper reservoir is in the usual spot, as seen here:
10919

But on the right side, I spotted this:
10920

The hole's the right size, but it's covered up with a rubber cap. So I took it off:
10921

I took a look inside, and I see a bunch of lightly rusted steel, some green glue, black fiberglass, essentially the same thing you'd get if you drilled a 3-4" hole in the front of the right side of your under-hood trunk area. Just an empty void. I tried to take pictures, but quite frankly, the hole is too small compared to the void to make useful pictures. I can take a movie if anyone's interested, but I'm not sure if you can upload movies here (.avi, 640x480 resolution).

This discovery raises three questions for me: 1) does anyone else have this modification, or is it just 559? 2) Would the driver's side reservoir fit there in the passenger side? And 3) has any documentation, or better yet the actual reservoir itself, surfaced yet? It's so fascinating to own a DeLorean with all these mysteries about it :biggrin:

I have no idea how many more of these things I'll find, but apparently my D has a rubber plug fetish...

[vwdmc16]

That is yet another interesting clue. But why move the washer bottle even for a RHD car? maybe a quick idea of moving the coolant reservoir the the front?

[DMCMW Dave]

I've seen that hole on quite a few cars, all very low 500-ish VINs. I've always assumed it was an early (first two weeks at the factory) production error, and they elected not to scrap entire underbodies for it.

[Dangermouse]

Of course it could be used for hiding other stuff 😳

It is a production "mule" in more than one sense

Wait, who said that?

[Shep]

I've seen that hole on quite a few cars, all very low 500-ish VINs. I've always assumed it was an early (first two weeks at the factory) production error, and they elected not to scrap entire underbodies for it.Makes perfect sense, actually. I noticed the nozzle for the wipers is on the passenger wiper, but the tube originates from the center of the cowl. Might have been a design change so the tube didn't bend as much under the cowl or something. Interesting to know it's on other 500 VIN's as well. Thanks for the info! :smile:


Of course it could be used for hiding other stuff 

It is a production "mule" in more than one sense

Wait, who said that?If you mean about my car specifically, that would be dmcjohn in post #3 of this thread (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3957-Anyone-have-info-on-wind-tunnel-testing&p=56360&viewfull=1#post56360). If you mean about 500 series in general, I honestly have no idea.

[Sidaries]

As I know VIN701 also have it.

[Notifier]

VIN 802 also has this "cap to nowhere", they even cut out the carpet that goes up the sides to keep it accessible. Never really gave it a thought on the purpose, just assumed it was to access some bolts or whatnot inside there.

You can see the hole in the exploded views here: http://store.delorean.com/c-394-8-2-0-fiberglass-body.aspx
But looking around the site real quickly I don't see the "cap" listed.

[Shep]

VIN 802 also has this "cap to nowhere", they even cut out the carpet that goes up the sides to keep it accessible. Never really gave it a thought on the purpose, just assumed it was to access some bolts or whatnot inside there.Wait, carpet that goes up the sides? :confused0: Mine just has a wooden cover for the spare tire, and a mat that goes over that, just bare fiberglass on the sides. Was this carpet custom to yours by any chance?

I don't recall seeing bolts anywhere in there just so you know. Green glue, yes, but no bolts.


You can see the hole in the exploded views here: http://store.delorean.com/c-394-8-2-0-fiberglass-body.aspx
But looking around the site real quickly I don't see the "cap" listed.Took me about 15 minutes, but I finally found it under the Manual Transmission section: http://store.delorean.com/p-8705-cover-clutch-resvr.aspx

[Bopat]

As I know VIN701 also have it.
Yes it's there

10944

[Notifier]

Wait, carpet that goes up the sides? :confused0: Mine just has a wooden cover for the spare tire, and a mat that goes over that, just bare fiberglass on the sides. Was this carpet custom to yours by any chance?

Yea, the carpet lines the side of the luggage compartment. It's the same material as the mat so I assumed it was factory unless it was done by a previous owner. For some reason, I don't have that nifty plywood base, I always thought there should be something there to at least protect the spare tire but never confirmed that.
10950

[dvonk]

Yea, the carpet lines the side of the luggage compartment. It's the same material as the mat so I assumed it was factory unless it was done by a previous owner.

interesting, i didnt catch that when 802 was listed for sale a couple years ago, but sure enough, the whole compartment is carpeted. looks custom to me; the pile seems deeper than the stock mat. here is a higher resolution photo from the 'for sale' thread in the old forum, for others to view and analyze as well:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10951&d=1339387204

10951

[andyd]

Its also present on VIN 814.

I wonder how high up the VIN numbers it goes...?

andy

[DMC5180]

This may have been a short lived experiment. The thick carpet pile seems to match the hardboard piece, But that could have been remade to match. The OEM floor mats were thick like that too. Had they used a Molded short pile carpet, Typical of most cars today, it would have looked much better IMO. The wrinkly edge bead is rather ugly for a finish treatment.

Seeing that DMCA (Delorean Motor Club of America) binder makes me think the Carpet treatment was a short lived aftermarket offering in the early 80's. That's just speculation though.

[andyd]

Its also present on VIN 814.

I wonder how high up the VIN numbers it goes...?

andy

Sorry for the confusion, I meant the spurious washer fluid hole, not the carpet...

andy

[Notifier]

This may have been a short lived experiment. The thick carpet pile seems to match the hardboard piece, But that could have been remade to match. The OEM floor mats were thick like that too. Had they used a Molded short pile carpet, Typical of most cars today, it would have looked much better IMO. The wrinkly edge bead is rather ugly for a finish treatment.

Seeing that DMCA (Delorean Motor Club of America) binder makes me think the Carpet treatment was a short lived aftermarket offering in the early 80's. That's just speculation though.

I really don't know the origin of the carpet on the sides. It is the exact same material as the cover. And the cover seems to have plastic sleeves on the corners for the hard cover that's missing. The side carpet is glued to the side walls with a couple of screws in the corners (I would assume either because the glue failed at these points or to just help hold it up). It starts at the gas tank fill, goes all the was across the entire length of the sides (no seams) and stops again at the gas tank fill. The top is finished with the black edging but the bottom part, which would be covered by the cover anyway is really rough. Almost like someone hand cut it with really dull scissors. It is a completely different material from the inside cabin carpeting and floor mats I have.

The DMCA binder is really neat. Lots of good information in it. I guess it was written with the layperson in mind who would be working on the car. I have all the other DMC service and parts manuals, but sometime I find myself looking through the DMCA binder too.

[Shep]

Well this certainly has turned into an interesting thread. I wonder if the mold used for the fiberglass underbody that had this problem was kept and used until it went bad... That would explain all these holes in later VIN's -- it's probably much more expensive to redo a mold than to put rubber plugs there.

As far as the VIN 802's carpet, I had thought the carpet on the hood and the carpet mat on the floor were different materials, but I just went out to check and they're the exact same. Fortunately, the top section of carpet on the hood is off on the right side, so I was able to physically compare it to the floor mat. The back is the same, the front is the same, they're equally flexible, the pile height (height of the fibers) is the same short height (even the same as most cars nowadays), the color is the same, the fibers are equally stiff, flexible, springy, etc. it's the exact same carpet basically. And just like in my '01 Civic, there's a thin wooden board covering the spare tire that goes underneath the mat. Oddly enough, the floor carpeting is firmly attached by the gas cap, but on the passenger side by the windshield/door area, it's nowhere close to connected, but there's some Velcro on it. Interesting.

New question: since I can see some rust patches when I take the plug off, obviously it's not completely airtight. So where does the air come from? The headlights? The frame? The wheels? That very plug? I thought about blowing on it, licking my finger, and feeling for air, but that'd just be weird :wink:

[DMC5180]

I'm not sure about the source of your so-called rust. But the inside of the underbody has Foam core Blocks placed in strategic areas. The exposed foam has tendency to discolor brown with age, This may explain the rust look. However, there are structural metal stays in the Jack compartment that do rust. I have that on my car. Btw I would not call the hole in the RF corner a flaw in the mold. It was cut with a tool rather than molded in. I would also expect your car to have the textured top surface of the rear Pontoons.

[jawn101]

I'm not sure about the source of your so-called rust. But the inside of the underbody has Foam core Blocks placed in strategic areas. The exposed foam has tendency to discolor brown with age, This may explain the rust look. However, there are structural metal stays in the Jack compartment that do rust. I have that on my car. Btw I would not call the hole in the RF corner a flaw in the mold. It was cut with a tool rather than molded in. I would also expect your car to have the textured top surface of the rear Pontoons.

The textured pontoons seem as mysterious and sporadic as these passenger side washer bottle holes. I have textured pontoons on #2100 (and love the look but boy are they tough to keep clean) but have friends with both much earlier and much later VINs that don't have them. And I don't have that passenger side washer fluid hole.

[Dangermouse]

Perhaps it was something as simple as an new employee being handed a hole saw and told to cut a 4" hole in the LH side and he viewed the car from the front, rather than from behind the wheel. He had finished a couple dozen tubs before the mistake was discovered. And lucky for him, they had a rubber plug on site, just the right size.

[andyd]

This has got me thinking...

Does a thread exist cataloguing the known "differences" in early cars, or little things that were superceded as production progressed?

Some are obvious and well known ie. gas flap hood, wheel finish and casting, bolster etc etc

But the textured pontoons was new to me. VIN 814 has them, but I assumed we all did!

Perhaps this is too far OT, and potentially too big a list, but I'd certainly be interested...

andy

[Dangermouse]

This has got me thinking...

Does a thread exist cataloguing the known "differences" in early cars, or little things that were superceded as production progressed?

Some are obvious and well known ie. gas flap hood, wheel finish and casting, bolster etc etc

But the textured pontoons was new to me. VIN 814 has them, but I assumed we all did!

Perhaps this is too far OT, and potentially too big a list, but I'd certainly be interested...

andy

I think the Millenium Concours Handbook would cover a lot of this, but maybe in a different layout. It is more along the lines of "if your car is between Vins X and Y then it should have this component", which is considered factory correct. Whether it would cover either of these things, I couldn't say, but it might be a start.

[Mark D]

Take a look here for more info too. At various points in production parts were superceeded with revised versions of the same part or new parts completely.

http://www.dmcnews.com/bulletins/index.html

[andyd]

Thanks guys,

Both interesting and useful.

And its made me realise that my car is, in the grand scheme of things, decidedly rough!! (but of course still loved!)

cheers

andy

[Shep]

I'm not sure about the source of your so-called rust. But the inside of the underbody has Foam core Blocks placed in strategic areas. The exposed foam has tendency to discolor brown with age, This may explain the rust look. However, there are structural metal stays in the Jack compartment that do rust. I have that on my car. Btw I would not call the hole in the RF corner a flaw in the mold. It was cut with a tool rather than molded in. I would also expect your car to have the textured top surface of the rear Pontoons.That might be it then. It was more patches of rust, kind of like a dalmatian's spots if I recall correctly, but it certainly looked like bare steel to me. Maybe poking it with a stick would confirm this.

(I do have the textured pontoons by the way.)


This has got me thinking...

Does a thread exist cataloguing the known "differences" in early cars, or little things that were superceded as production progressed?

Some are obvious and well known ie. gas flap hood, wheel finish and casting, bolster etc etc

But the textured pontoons was new to me. VIN 814 has them, but I assumed we all did!

Perhaps this is too far OT, and potentially too big a list, but I'd certainly be interested...

andyI don't think it's off topic at all. My original question was (mostly) answered, which leads into this very topic of "production options" as I call them, advancing over time. I'm actually interested in whether or not there's a thread for that as well. I was able to name 10 different differences along the DeLorean production timeframe, but now that I own one, I'm discovering more of these that I had no idea about. Including the textured pontoons and this hole in the right side of the trunk. And I'd like to read a comprehensive list of everything if it exists in DMCTalk thread form.

[Dangermouse]

If you have a magnetic screwdriver that would fit, you might get a better idea of what it is, assuming you can't get a regular magnet in there.

[Shep]

If you have a magnetic screwdriver that would fit, you might get a better idea of what it is, assuming you can't get a regular magnet in there.Good point. I actually have one of those retractable "magnet on a stick" things. Folds and extends like a power antenna, with a little magnet at the end, so that should tell me if it's the steel frame or just some foam. It's about the size of a ballpoint pen, but I have successfully picked up a set of locking pliers from the top of my engine compartment of my '95 Oldsmobile Achieva after it dropped almost to the bottom, purely by the magnet, so if anything can tell me, that will for sure. Got it for about a quarter a few years back, and it's saved my ass quite a few times.

I don't have time to do it tonight, but I'll try to remember to do it tomorrow, and I'll let everyone know what I find out.

[ramblinmike]

If I remember correctly, there was a thread on the old .com forum that was cataloging some of these production run differences. I specifically remember replying about 910 having smooth pontoons.

[andyd]

If I remember correctly, there was a thread on the old .com forum that was cataloging some of these production run differences. I specifically remember replying about 910 having smooth pontoons.

Shame I missed that. Would it be too boring to start it up again?? Concensus?

a

[Shep]

Well, I found some metal! I took a magnet-on-a-stick, waved it around in the hole, and it stuck to some stuff. Of course, it was only the top three things in this picture:
11004
nothing else stuck except for this one round, protruding, stud rivet thing by the headlight. I have no idea what the bottom two things are, but the one on the left appears to have broken off from somewhere, while the right might be some sort of glue. I've bagged everything just for shiggles.

Everything else in that compartment is non-ferrous, and the magnet had no effect on it. The entire cavity is that way, not just part of it, so I'm thinking it's a mix of some stiff foam, fiberglass, plastic, and things like that. It wasn't squishy at all though.


Shame I missed that. Would it be too boring to start it up again?? Concensus?I'm all for it. In fact, I just added a file to my dropbox that you can permalink to in the OP -- I'll keep it up to date as the thread evolves:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/78099959/DMCTalk/Production%20Changes.txt
I do quite a bit of documentation at work using that same format, for everything from code snippets to common problems to hints and tips, and it's always worked well for me.

[Shep]

So anyone have any thoughts on the "production changes" thread? I'm curious as to who all can provide input for such a thread.



Shame I missed that. Would it be too boring to start it up again?? Concensus?I'm all for it. In fact, I just added a file to my dropbox that you can permalink to in the OP -- I'll keep it up to date as the thread evolves:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/78099959/DMCTalk/Production%20Changes.txt

[jawn101]

So anyone have any thoughts on the "production changes" thread? I'm curious as to who all can provide input for such a thread.

It would definitely be cool. We'd need some of the historians to weigh in and maybe Nick Sutton as well. Check out this thread if you want to get a little VIN cut-off history lesson, I thought it was fascinating.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1640-HVAC-panel-Ouline-vs-Solid-Lettering-VIN-cut-offs&highlight=hvac+panel

[andyd]

So anyone have any thoughts on the "production changes" thread? I'm curious as to who all can provide input for such a thread.

Hello,

Intersting stuff re. the different HVAC panels

I am relatively green when it comes to DeLoreans, so personally, I can only post up what VIN 814 has/ has not got. So FWIW:

Some of these are mentioned in this thread, some not, but could possibly used as a basis/ curated/ collated later??


VIN814:

pop rivetted dash vin no
hand stamped (squit!!) vin no by drivers door- later ones machine stamped? April 81
"extra" hole cut in error re. wash bottle
Early door locks, 2 key system
No obvious door guides
Originally g-f hood; has locking fuel cap; replaced at some point with flat hood
textured pontoons
wheels: originally grey, powder coated just before my purchase. Not too sure about the casting type, but photo-->
http://www.flickr.com/photos/researchphotography/6067290688/in/set-72157627362615561/
There is a link somewhere re. alterations in the castings, but can't find it now.
early pull straps (presumably still a retro fit?)
electric areal in rear pontoon, presumabhly retrofit
one piece bolster
"Type 2" HVAC panel (solid text, not blacked out, no "Heat Cold" text)
Brake light fuse- TBC!
Sun visors- TBC


Apologies if any of these are not production changes depandant on VIN no (ie. pontoons). Just thinking aloud....

a

[andyd]

Edit :


one piece bolster


Should be two piece bolster.

Oh, and early mirrors as well...

a