Very Slight Movement in a Cylinder Liner...Is This OK???

[Jeffu]

I am hoping I can get some feedback on this from others that have performed previous engine work or have more knowledge than I do on the motors cylinder liners.

So here is the deal:

I had a head gasket go bad so I pulled the engine. I should mention that the head gasket leak was nothing more than just a seepage of coolant into the VOD. When the head was removed there was no coolant inside of the cylinder(s) or in the oil pan. The gasket was just beginning to fail and I am glad that I was able to catch it early on. The engine is mounted on an engine stand and I now have both heads removed. I was VERY mindful not to just lift the heads directly from the block. Per the Volvo Manual I carefully "rolled" them both off and did not any any issues with the head gaskets sticking to the cylinder liners, etc. I do not have the "official" Volvo liner holders (part# 5093). I know the manual states that these must by used when the heads are off. When carefully examining the the liners I noticed that one of them can be ever so gently moved slightly. When I say move, I guess a slight side to side movement of approximately 2 - 3 mm. This is NOT moving the cylinder in an up and down motion, just a little side to side. It reminds me of a tooth that is JUST beginning to become loose.

My question is how do I know if this slight movement is "ok" or not? Or, do I possibly now have a compromised cylinder liner seal? I do have a little bit of coolant inside the block still and nothing appears to be dripping out of the bottom of the block (I have the oil pan removed). Also, if you are not tilting the engine stand greater than 90 -180 degrees is it absolutely necessary to have the liner holders in place??

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated!

10998

11000

[Delorean Industries]

I am hoping I can get some feedback on this from others that have performed previous engine work or have more knowledge than I do on the motors cylinder liners.

So here is the deal:

I had a head gasket go bad so I pulled the engine. I should mention that the head gasket leak was nothing more than just a seepage of coolant into the VOD. When the head was removed there was no coolant inside of the cylinder(s) or in the oil pan. The gasket was just beginning to fail and I am glad that I was able to catch it early on. The engine is mounted on an engine stand and I now have both heads removed. I was VERY mindful not to just lift the heads directly from the block. Per the Volvo Manual I carefully "rolled" them both off and did not any any issues with the head gaskets sticking to the cylinder liners, etc. I do not have the "official" Volvo liner holders (part# 5093). I know the manual states that these must by used when the heads are off. When carefully examining the the liners I noticed that one of them can be ever so gently moved slightly. When I say move, I guess a slight side to side movement of approximately 2 - 3 mm. This is NOT moving the cylinder in an up and down motion, just a little side to side. It reminds me of a tooth that is JUST beginning to become loose.

My question is how do I know if this slight movement is "ok" or not? Or, do I possibly now have a compromised cylinder liner seal? I do have a little bit of coolant inside the block still and nothing appears to be dripping out of the bottom of the block (I have the oil pan removed). Also, if you are not tilting the engine stand greater than 90 -180 degrees is it absolutely necessary to have the liner holders in place??

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated!


10998

11000


Pull it apart. If the liner moves it rips the paper gasket. Always hold the liners in place no matter what. They break free very easily.

[opethmike]

Yep, as Josh said, don't take the risk, and consider that liner seal torn.

[Jeffu]

Yep, as Josh said, don't take the risk, and consider that liner seal torn.

uhggggg.......I was afraid of that.

[Byrne H&A]

The seal is broken and must be replaced. Byrne

[Jeffu]

Thank you guys for your responses.

I have been reading the manual over on liner seal replacement. This is kind of a dumb question, but should I just fix the one cylinder seal, or all of them? I have never messed with the crank assembly etc? Seems a bit intimidating to drop the whole lower end out?? But, maybe I am at the point that it just has to be done.

[David T]

If you managed to disturb one liner seal they are all in question now. If you removed the heads, did not install liner clamps and moved the crankshaft you can figure you messed up all of them. No point in reassembling the motor only to find coolant in your motor oil!
David Teitelbaum

[Jeffu]

If you managed to disturb one liner seal they are all in question now. If you removed the heads, did not install liner clamps and moved the crankshaft you can figure you messed up all of them. No point in reassembling the motor only to find coolant in your motor oil!
David Teitelbaum

Yes, I am afraid they are all in question. I did not turn the crank, but I also did not immediately place on liner clamps when I pulled the heads off. However, prior to placing the clamps on I had tilted the motor slightly in the stand to clean the sides of the block. I can't imagine that that would have caused the 1 cylinder liner to loosen up because I was very careful when doing this. I mean it may only have been titled 20 degrees....Nonetheless, it is what it is and I have to just deal with it now.

[tgraham]

Seems a bit intimidating to drop the whole lower end out??

You don't have to split the crankcase to remove/install the piston-liner assemblies - just remove the oil pan and shield, unbolt the connecting rod big ends, and they'll pop right out. The good book says to note the exact alignment so it goes back in the same way... since you're not re-working the pistons, if you just remove one at a time and replace the liner seal, you'll be fine. You'll need some new o-rings for the oil pickup tube, which you'll have to disassemble. And a new oil pan gasket, of course. Also, some people (a lot of people?) skip the whole ordeal of measuring liner heights, comparing them, making sure they're only X-thousandths of a mm different, choosing liner seals based on the difference, repeating the measurements, etc... and instead just cut to the chase and use the thick/yellow ones on all of the liners. I did it this way too and so far, so good.

If the crankcase is leaking oil anywhere around the crankcase joint, it's a great time to split the crank case and re-seal it. You took the engine out of the car - I'd say you're well past the most intimidating part (not counting turning the key upon reassembly, of course...)!

Travis

[Jeffu]

Also, some people (a lot of people?) skip the whole ordeal of measuring liner heights, comparing them, making sure they're only X-thousandths of a mm different, choosing liner seals based on the difference, repeating the measurements, etc... and instead just cut to the chase and use the thick/yellow ones on all of the liners. I did it this way too and so far, so good.
Travis

Thanks Travis! That's good information to know, and I appreciate your input. I was also a bit concerned about getting that exact tolerance in gasket height! I don't have that "clock dial " they mention in the manual and was pretty sure I was going to have to take it to someone who had experience with these motors. I never have noticed much leakage from the case halves so I really don't think it needs to be opened and re-sealed. The rear main seal needs to be replaced but I think I am good otherwise. Maybe it might not be so bleak after all and I just may forge ahead. Thanks for the boast in moral.