help needed for monroe shock install

[lamboman]

I have the shocks removed and went to install the new monroes and they dont fit up into the lower arm hole?...what do i do?i have attached a few pics to show what i am dealing with part wise compared to whatever was on there before.

[WelmoedJ]

Do not fit? In which way?
Do they need more space or is there excessive space in between the sides of the LCA?

[lamboman]

nobody has installed these?part number is correct...really need some help so i can get the car back together asap.

[lamboman]

we replied at the same time.

the cover over the shock upper shaft will not fit up through the lower control arm.


Do not fit? In which way?
Do they need more space or is there excessive space in between the sides of the LCA?

[WelmoedJ]

Okay, I understand: the dust cover is the problem.
Well, you could take it off and install the shock that way.

I had a problem with Ed's front shocks (the previous set).
They have a rubber dust cover that tears around the top.
So I took the cover off.
May be the shocks will get dirtier that way and therefore don't live that long, but they work.

[lamboman]

the munroes have a metal dust shield...not sure how to get those off.

[WelmoedJ]

If that Monroe dust cover is wider than the originals, do they fit inside the spring?
If fitting inside you could decide to make the access hole wider.

The dust cover has been mounted onto the shock at some point during manufacturing.
My guess is that it's also possible to take the cover off.

Now you have two options ;)

[Spittybug]

I believe it is the angle that is bad. If you push up on the control arm (compressing the spring a bit), the angle changes and you should be able to get the shock in/out. That's what I had to do to get mine out the other day. It's tight.

[TTait]

Also, be advised that Monroe makes that shock in different runs in different factories around the world with varied specs. A new shock may have slightly different dimensions that another monroe. This can be a BIG problem when you go to put a spring collar on the wrong sized shock.

IIRC I put on a set of Monroes some years back and had to trim down the dust cover, don't recall why. I think that the bush at the bottom needs to be replaced too - the monroe spec bush is not up to the job of taking the weight of the rear suspension.

Those shocks are long gone now I'm afraid, so I can't look.

T

[Ryan King]

Return them and get Gabriel Guardians from Autozone, they have a lifetime warranty. Got me on my car. They are awesome.

[lamboman]

update:

I got one side installed...had to slightly open up the hole in the lower control arm (possibly a MM or two to clear the shock).then problem two...the shock would not go into the upper perch hole until i applied pressure to the suspension compressing the spring a bit.

with the shock installed i notice with the car on the ground (pressure on spring) the shock rides fine in the spring...when the car is on a lift (no pressure on the suspension) the shock rubs the side of the spring.

I am attaching pics of the shock installed in relation to the spring to show rubbing with all weight off car and normal on ground position.

I know people are running these shocks and is this ok or should i worry about damaging anything?.

[lamboman]

as for the top mount...the shock i removed Factory original???) had a rubber bushing below the frame and above with metal washers on both sides of each rubber bushing.

the monroe is a rubber bushing on top and bottom of the upper frame mount with a washer on bottom and top...is this the correct install?...i am attaching a pic of the new install....correct?.

[uhhair]

Not to hijack this thread, but how does one go about buying shocks for a Delorean at a regular parts store? I was under the impression that we had to buy shocks that are made for our car. I would love to buy a modern shock at a store, would probably save money and come with a great warranty. Is this really possible?

[lamboman]

nobody has done this install?just trying to make sure all is good.

[DMCMW Dave]

IMO the Monroes are not worth the effort. I had them on my car some time ago and they lasted maybe 1000 miles on each of two sets. Warranty or no, it's enough work not to want to mess with it since Monroe isn't paying you to re-install them. I have no idea how they keep selling these things even for other cars.

How do you know they are "the right number"? There are a lot of flaky cross-reference lists around. And as someone else mentioned, Monroe changes non-critical (to them!) dimensions all the time.

[jawn101]

IMO the Monroes are not worth the effort. I had them on my car some time ago and they lasted maybe 1000 miles on each of two sets. Warranty or no, it's enough work not to want to mess with it since Monroe isn't paying you to re-install them. I have no idea how they keep selling these things even for other cars.

How do you know they are "the right number"? There are a lot of flaky cross-reference lists around. And as someone else mentioned, Monroe changes non-critical (to them!) dimensions all the time.

Reason enough right there to return these while you still can. Have you looked at the Spax that the vendors sell? They are really a very reasonable price for a full set of high quality performance shocks that are guaranteed to fit and work correctly.

[TTait]

I suspect the reason they fail so quickly (in some cases?) is that they are not engineered for this application. The monroe is designed to go into an application where the shock sits completely inside the spring, not with the spring attached to it. Whe installed on a D, the weight of the rear end of the car, and all the dynamic pressures that go with that as you are driving, are transferred to the lower half of the shock body, into the lower fitting and through a bushing that was not designed to bear its weight...

The monroe is purely a shock absorber, meant to dissapate energy, not bear dynamic weights.

It made it onto cross reference lists (I think) because Marty (Mid States Delorean) and maybe others did some very careful research and found the shocks years ago and converted them for Delorean use. I think he trimmed the dust guard, and he replaced the bushing, and he also carefully looked at the construction of the shock to make sure it would work. He did this maybe 10 years ago - and then he manufactured spring perch collars to go on the shocks, and sold them as a finished product.

I've met Marty and there is no doubt in my mind that he did his homework. But... those were 2003 shocks from a plant in Indiana (I'm making this part up to make a point - I have no idea when or where they were made - but read on). Since then Monroe has had the shocks manufactured in Yugoslavia, Mexico, and China (guesses) - all with differing specs. Monroe goes to the factories with a dampening rate, a length, a maximum diameter and a few more specs - and the manufacturer makes whatever they want that fits that general application - and Monroe tests a few samples, sticks their label on it and sells it.

Marty kept up with it for a while, not sure if he still does. He would test the new variants as he came across them, make different sized collars, trimmed a different amount, put in different bushings - and kept making them work - for a while. I suspect that by now he has sourced something else to sell as his Delorean Mid States club shocks - maybe they are the monroes, and he knows how to prep them - and maybe not.

In the era where Dave was trying them, Monroe was probably building junk. When I first met Marty he was having issues because he sold these things with a warranty and the manufacture was not only producing different quality variants, but different sizes. When he did the right thing and replaced a failed shock for the customer - he had to check out the new shocks, build new spring perches, and start over again countless times.

Whatever he is charging for shocks - its fair. While Delorean mid states makes every effort to sell good parts, he is still held hostage by the production changes made by the manufacturer. Every Delorean specialist goes through this to varying degrees. This is what separates the good ones from the bad ones. Dave, Toby, James, Ed Uding, Josh, Rob, Marty and others all go out of their way to make sure they can really stand behind what the sell. Autozone does not - not for Delorean applications. Hervey - roll the dice.

You get what you pay for.

For those asking how you buy shocks at autozone and put them on your car - the answer is that you start with the heresay on the web as a starting point, and you ask questions here to learn what you can, and then you dive in and find that point on the curve where research meets luck - and you get what you get. When you choose to buy from a Delorean vendor, you have to decide whose reputation you trust, and how much you are willing to pay.

In general you will find Rob Grady and the Delorean affiliates here in the states all try to offer very good, tested products at fair prices. Josh tends to lean toward high performance, and IMHO Ed Uding is the guy who loves to push the cars hard and make them perform as much like a Ducati as possible. Hervey finds parts that seem okay, and sells them to us to see if they work. Often they do - not always.

There has to be someones reputation on the line. If its not Dave Swingle or Rob Grady, then maybe you can substitute Bosch - they still manufacture parts for the much of the fuel injection system that - based on their research and expertise - meet or exceed manufacturers (their own) original specifications. Maybe you feel okay trusting centerforce for a clutch - but you are mostly on your own to decide if its an appropriate application of the product. Shocks fall even further down the scale. If you were buying the Monroes for the original application (Crown vic?) - then they will probably be fine - but understand that what you are really buying is a shock that's similar to something that someone once got to work through trial end error - and nobody is standing behind making it work today.

D owners are a great bunch - we seem to run on a scale from engineer to geek to enthusiast. I don't think you would find as much expertise in the Studebaker or Miata clubs - we love to tinker. You will get advice ranging from good to great - but in the end you have to decide what your priorities are. I'm at the point where I often (very often) try to support the reputable vendors. None of them seem to be getting filthy rich off of us - they are just committed to doing the best they can, protecting their reputations, and paying their mortgages. Its hard to not support that.

If you can't afford a quality part, and good support, usually you are better off parking the car for a month and saving up just a little more to do the job well.

[82DMC12]

^ most real post ever

[lamboman]

Thanks for the replys,it helped alot on this subject.Alot of variences.I want the spax but i had one blown shock and i wanted to get the monroes on the front to continue using the car until i can get a proper set shipped in.

would it be acceptable to install one monroe (as i have) and leave the girling on the other side? safe to drive?until i get a set of the spax?.

[DMCMW Dave]

Thanks for the replys,it helped alot on this subject.Alot of variences.I want the spax but i had one blown shock and i wanted to get the monroes on the front to continue using the car until i can get a proper set shipped in.

would it be acceptable to install one monroe (as i have) and leave the girling on the other side? safe to drive?until i get a set of the spax?.

It will handle funny - a new Monroe is much softer than an old Girling.

On something like this, if you are on a budget, you are sometimes better chasing down a used OEM shock from someone who has already done the upgrade.

[lamboman]

i guess i will install the other monroe...not really a budget problem just getting the parts to canada takes so long and i dont want to be waiting on the spax shocks for half the summer.I ideally would like to get the spax shocks and install this winter.

[TTait]

And to be clear - I have been referring to monroes on the rear - did not even know someone had cross referenced one for the front - had only hear of gabriels up front...

Definately run a pair of matched shocks, not two different models from two different centuries...