Car no longer turns over. Help!

[ccurzio]

I did a bad thing, and I don't know what.

Just yesterday, my car was running flawlessly. I installed the new fuel pump from DMCH and everything was working great. So today I decided to tackle the installation of DMCNW's cooling fan mod kit.

Something went wrong and now my car doesn't start.

I followed the instructions very carefully and after putting everything back together I put the key in the ignition and turned one click. Everything works as expected - lights, radio, all is normal. However when I turn the key to actually start the car, I get absolutely nothing. No crank whatsoever.

This is not good. Please help. :(

[Dangermouse]

Do you hear the starter solenoid clicking?

[ccurzio]

When turning the key to the start position there is a click inside the relay compartment, but that's all.

[DeLorean03]

Did you disconnect the battery at all? If so, 2x check your bolts.

One time, I went to start the car, absolutely and completely dead, not one click or light. Turned out my "+" lead bolt on the battery was loose.

[ccurzio]

The power system is fine, and the car is getting power from the battery without issue.

[David T]

Take out the cooling fan mod kit. Undo all of the steps exactly as you did them and that *should* get you going again. The chances of a coincidence of something going bad at the same time as you worked on the car is very low. It is much more likely it is something you did or disturbed.
David Teitelbaum

[ccurzio]

Take out the cooling fan mod kit. Undo all of the steps exactly as you did them and that *should* get you going again. The chances of a coincidence of something going bad at the same time as you worked on the car is very low. It is much more likely it is something you did or disturbed.
David Teitelbaum

All of this pretty much goes without saying. I know it was something that I did, the problem is that I don't know what did it.

Removing the kit and putting everything back the way it was did not help.

[axh174]

If you've got a friend nearby, have him or her try to start the car while you listen near lower passenger side of the engine. Do you hear an eletrical whine like a motor that is held fast? It could be your starter is stuck. Try tapping it gently with a wrench and starting the car again. I've had my daily driver do this when the starter was near its end of life.

Another possiblity: The symptoms you are describing is exactly what my D does when the battery has gotten low on charge (like when I forget to hook up the trickle charger and an extended period goes by). There's still enough juice in the battery to get all the electric working, but not enough to turn the car over. You could try jumping it.

Lastly, if you did touch the battery during installtion of the fans, make sure the leads are back on tight. I made the mistake once of having the lead on, but it wasn't tightened securely and it resulted in trouble starting.

-Kevin
VIN2234

[ccurzio]

If you've got a friend nearby, have him or her try to start the car while you listen near lower passenger side of the engine. Do you hear an eletrical whine like a motor that is held fast? It could be your starter is stuck. Try tapping it gently with a wrench and starting the car again. I've had my daily driver do this when the starter was near its end of life.


This is not the issue. There is no whine, and the idle speed motor is buzzing.

I need to reiterate that the car was running perfectly up until this morning when I attempted to rewire per the instructions in the kit. It is an electrical issue.



Another possiblity: The symptoms you are describing is exactly what my D does when the battery has gotten low on charge (like when I forget to hook up the trickle charger and an extended period goes by). There's still enough juice in the battery to get all the electric working, but not enough to turn the car over. You could try jumping it.

Lastly, if you did touch the battery during installtion of the fans, make sure the leads are back on tight. I made the mistake once of having the lead on, but it wasn't tightened securely and it resulted in trouble starting.

These are also not the issues. The battery charge is fine and all power connections are secure. The battery itself was not touched during this operation. (I have a cutoff switch.)

[nullset]

Is it a manual or an automatic?

If it's a manual, have you tried push starting it?

--buddy

[ccurzio]

It is a manual. And I never actually learned how to push-start. (So no, I've not tried that.)

[nullset]

It is a manual. And I never actually learned how to push-start. (So no, I've not tried that.)

It's easy.

Turn the key to run. Get the car on a downhill slope or get someone to push you. Once you get it going a bit, put it in first (or 2nd, depends on who you ask) with the clutch down, and pull the clutch out. The engine should then start.

It's pretty easy.

If it doesn't work, then that means the problem isn't in your starter circuit. If your battery is good enough to power the fuel pump but not good enough to turn over the engine, then this trick will work for you.

--buddy

[ccurzio]

Push-starting is successful. Runs fine.

[dmc6960]

You guys are all WAY over thinking this. He was in the relay compartment, and now the starter doesn't engage.

THEREFORE - Remove the Start Inhibit Relay. Check all connections to ensure they are seated and not backed out. Then use jumper to try engaging the starter from the relay socket to verify function. Put relay back, and try again.

[Dangermouse]

It is a manual. And I never actually learned how to push-start. (So no, I've not tried that.)

Well, there's your problem. Switch it out for an auto and you'll be find. ;)

Seriously though, there are only four things in the circuit: battery, ignition switch, relay and starter. I don't think there is a fuse.

Easiest thing is to swap the relay out with another one, or a spare if you have it.

Harder thing to do (by your self) is to check that you are getting voltage at the starter when the relay is energized - either at the relay base or at the starter itself.

I don't know about the DMCMW fan mod - does any of it happen in the relay compartment?

[ccurzio]

THEREFORE - Remove the Start Inhibit Relay. Check all connections to ensure they are seated and not backed out. Then use jumper to try engaging the starter from the relay socket to verify function. Put relay back, and try again.

Thanks. Can you provide a little more detail on how to do this? I assume you're referring to relay 29. (Rear row, 2nd from left.)


Seriously though, there are only four things in the circuit: battery, ignition switch, relay and starter. I don't think there is a fuse.

Easiest thing is to swap the relay out with another one, or a spare if you have it.

Battery is fine, ignition switch is fine, starter is fine. That leaves the relay, but it's definitely not the relay itself. It's the wiring.

I keep brand new spare relays in my emergency kit. Swapping didn't help.


I don't know about the DMCMW fan mod - does any of it happen in the relay compartment?

All of it. It's a bunch of rewiring.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Like some have suggested......You probably have a connector pin that pulled from a relay socket. I'm guessing you had to lift the bank of relays to install the fan modification. Also check that you have the four wires on the circuit breaker. One of those wires powers the starter solenoid.

[ccurzio]

Update: SUCCESS! Well, sort of. I still have a problem. I've traced the connections and while inspecting what went where, I found a stray wire that originally ran from one of the circuit breakers to the starter relay. While hooking everything back up, this extra wire just sat dormant without me realizing it was disconnected which is why the car wouldn't start. Since it was a power line that hooked straight into a circuit breaker, I went ahead and connected it to the BAT terminal on one of the breakers and tried starting the car. Lo and behold, it started right up.

So now that I've found the problem, I have a new boggle.

In my original configuration, I had two circuit breakers: one with one terminal per post, and one with two terminals per post. The circuit breaker with two prongs hooked up to the battery on one side, and to the fan fail relay socket on the other. The circuit breaker with four prongs hooked up to the battery on one side, and on the other side it had connections for the blower 3rd and 4th speed relays. It would also seem that the power wire for the starter went to this breaker as well, though I do not recall which side. That being said, it seems the only side it could have logically OR physically hooked to is the BAT side.

The new configuration made some changes to this setup. The circuit breaker with two prongs remains exactly the same - battery, and fan fail relay socket. The circuit breaker with four prongs, however, is different. In addition to the battery being on one side and the 3/4 blower relay connections being on the other, you also need to have removed the power line from the fan relay socket and connected it to the BAT post on the circuit breaker. This is presumably where the starter wire would have hooked to as well.

I ended up with the stray wire because there was originally four wires that hooked to one of the circuit breakers, and by the end I also had four wires running to that same circuit breaker. What I failed to realize was that one of the wires was redirected from a relay socket and I should have ended up with FIVE wires hooked to the circuit breaker. Since I counted four both times, I thought I was good to go.

I'm assuming that I should probably just clip and strip the starter wire, shove it into a ring terminal and connect it directly to the BAT post on the circuit breaker. Does that sound about right?


Like some have suggested......You probably have a connector pin that pulled from a relay socket. I'm guessing you had to lift the bank of relays to install the fan modification. Also check that you have the four wires on the circuit breaker. One of those wires powers the starter solenoid.
I saw your post while I was writing the above reply. You're absolutely right - that wire is the one I'm talking about.

[Bitsyncmaster]

If your fan relay modification needs to go to that "4 wire" circuit breaker, then yes, I would use a ring terminal for the starter wire.

[ccurzio]

Now I have a new problem. My fans do not work at all. I don't even know if they ever worked with the mod. They worked fine before.

I know for a fact all connections are secure because I just tore everything apart to double check my first attempt.