Lets Talk Radiators Because there is some BAD information out (just replaced mine)

[Nicholas R]

Since the beginning of the LS1 project, cooling was something I was worried about.

I started with the "3 core brass radiator" that is pretty common these days.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/252788_10100613992047025_1821982432_n.jpg
Pretty sure it's the same one mentioned in this document:
https://support.delorean.com/KB/a44/radiators.aspx

A popular upgrade in the past was a 3-row brass radiator with metal tanks.

This radiator DEFINITELY, only has 2 cores! See for yourself!
http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss94/NicholasRoedl/cd9b1b4c.jpg?t=1340506668
This is the same radiator I see on many other cars, and everyone calls it the "3 core brass." No idea why, unless there is some other 2 core brass radiator floating around.

Anyone have a picture of a 3 core brass that actually has 3 cores?

So to make things even more interesting, a month ago or so, I borrowed a never used, original radiator (plastic bottles and all) from Cliff S. To take to a radiator shop and see if they had anything with similar dimensions. Now I had always heard that the original DeLorean radiator was 2 core aluminum. As far as I could tell, this is NOT true. First, it was definitely brass/copper (even this: https://support.delorean.com/KB/a44/radiators.aspx says it was brass). But when I took it to the radiator shop, they pointed out first thing, that it definitely was NOT 2 core, but rather just one single core going across. I wish I had taken pictures but its true, just one core running across!

This makes me wonder about the new radiator that DMCH has.
http://store.delorean.com/p-6273-radiator.aspx

This site: https://support.delorean.com/KB/a44/radiators.aspx says its 2 core, but when I called DMCH a few weeks ago, they said it was made from the factory drawings with metal bottles on the side so I'm not sure exactly what it is. Can anyone that has this radiator that can shed some light on it?

I'm also curious why it's paint black if it's aluminum. Brass/copper I understand because it will oxidize if it's not coated. Still painting black causes any material to absorb more heat via radiation. Aluminum shouldn't have to be painted.

In the end, this is the radiator I installed today:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/229952_10100612822954895_625892102_n.jpg
Ed Uding's radiator from DMC Europe (Netherlands). Took about a week to arrive and was barely more than DMCH (including shipping!) It's 2 core aluminum, unpainted so it absorbs less heat (especially from the condenser).

Here is my brass 2 core radiator next to the new 2 core aluminum.

Here are the stats of each.
Original:
Brass, 2 core, 1.25 total core thickness, 18 fins, painted black.

New:
Aluminum, 2 core, 1.875" total core thickness, 27 fins, uncoated with bottles polished for even less absorption, core is also about 2" wider left to right than original.

Preliminary tests are good. Pushing the engine hard with AC on MAX I dont even think I've hit 200F yet. Hoping tomorrow will be really hot out so I can test it more in Florida heat.

[jackb]

I never understood why it was painted black either.

[Chris Burns]

Are you using the stock fans?

[Nicholas R]

Are you using the stock fans?

No, currently I have Toby Peterson's fans installed.

Also I forgot to post the pic of the old and new radiator next to one another:
https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/521334_10100613772961075_1007445555_n.jpg

[DCUK Martin]

Copper is a far better thermal conductor than aluminium and matt black not only absorbs radiant heat more efficiently, it emits it better too and on balance, being the hottest device, will emit far more than it absorbs. Though in practice a "radiator" is losing far more heat energy by forced convection.

The original is indeed a single row, I have had both twin and triple row cores made, with the twin row being the same depth as oem.

[Nicholas R]

Copper is a far better thermal conductor than aluminium and matt black not only absorbs radiant heat more efficiently, it emits it better too and on balance, being the hottest device, will emit far more than it absorbs. Though in practice a "radiator" is losing far more heat energy by forced convection.

The original is indeed a single row, I have had both twin and triple row cores made, with the twin row being the same depth as oem.

Thank you! I dont understand why so much documentation calls the original a 2 core radiator. Do you happen to know the depth of the core section of the originals? I recall it being about 1" but I cannot remember for sure. Just might be nice to know.

[LEVY]

Nicholas,

First, I understand black will not absorb heat by radiation, it will only absorb heat from direct sunlight, in other words, if it is in the shade, it will not absorb more heat than any other color. Now, black will disipate more heat than any other color, specially on the shade.

If you need a special radiator, give me the specs, I have a friend who owns a radiator factory and is willing to make one for me.

LEVY

[FLUXING]

How can applying a coating of paint, regardless of color, be more efficient at radiating heat away from the metal than just leaving the metal bare? There is bound to be retention of heat by the coating that wouldn't be there if the metal was unpainted....

[TTait]

Its also worth pointing out that a brass/copper core can be repaired much easier than an aluminum one. The price of copper is through the roof however...

[dmc6960]

How can applying a coating of paint, regardless of color, be more efficient at radiating heat away from the metal than just leaving the metal bare? There is bound to be retention of heat by the coating that wouldn't be there if the metal was unpainted....

A discussion about this came up when I was talking about AC condensers a while back. After a TON of research I came to the conclusion that in an aluminum heat exchanger unpainted gives the best heat transfer. There were still some disagreements on that though but I'm content with my conclusion. Now in the instance of a brass/copper unit, if the paint is necessary to prevent corrosion, then there is no choice in the matter. One of the key things to know is that in the application of a forced-air heat exchanger, the convection works best with no extra medium (paint) between the two main heat exchange mediums (in this case, aluminum and air).

[LEVY]

Believe it or not, black radiates heat better than bare metal, I' m talking about a thin layer of black and not a 1/2" tick coat of paint.

Just look at the heat exchangers installed on electronic boards, if they are painted, they would ne black.

LEVY


How can applying a coating of paint, regardless of color, be more efficient at radiating heat away from the metal than just leaving the metal bare? There is bound to be retention of heat by the coating that wouldn't be there if the metal was unpainted....

[DMCMW Dave]

Something I've always thought curious in this discussion is all the hoo-ha about "triple core". Marketing BS in my opinion.

Actually what you are looking for is the surface area presented to the coolant. One wide core would present more surface area than three narrow cores (with all else equal). It is probably more difficult to manufacture a wide single core.

The overall thickness of the radiator, and the density of the fin tubes (i.e. how many rows as Nick pointed out) and the density of the fins between the tubes has a much bigger impact on the ability of the radiator to transfer heat than does the mere number of cores. Obviously overall size makes a difference too but you are usually limited to the original dimensions.

If you look at the OE DeLorean radiator you'll see that it is MUCH denser, with more rows, than just about any of the others, and certainly more dense than the common aftermarket brass one. Too bad about the plastic tanks, as I have yet to see the core on an OE radiator fail. It is the joint from the plastic tank to the core that fails 100% of the time.

The down side to very dense radiators is that it is easier to plug them up. Not a big deal on a well-maintened car, but we have seen DMC radiators that don't flow well and will cause the car to run hot a highway speeds.

[David T]

The implication of "triple core" is that you are getting more than single or double. The problem with that logic is to have the same external dimensions each of the 3 cores are smaller so you wind up with less surface area available for heat transfer then a single or dual core of the same size. Copper is better at heat transfer than aluminum but it is heavier and more expensive. Painting the radiator does nothing to improve heat transfer except prevent corrosion which would impede heat transfer which is why radiators get painted. They are usually painted black so you can't see anything shiny when you look in the grill. Denser is always better but they do tend to get plugged up faster. A much bigger problem on Lotus's. They get so plugged up with tiny pebbles and other road debris that the motor will overheat. It is also very difficult to clean them unless they are removed and on a Lotus that is a big job!
Bottom lining this, ANY radiator you put in is going to be an improvement over the 30 year old POS that is in there now. If it isn't leaking (it probably is but you haven't noticed it yet) it soon will be. The big danger in still keeping the OEM rad is that one day the left tank will blow off in a spectacular cloud of steam and if you do not IMMEDIATELY stop the car you will also be replacing the head gaskets. Every owner should inspect the left tank seam for any signs of green. You look at the radiator behind the left, front wheel and through the left fan at the backside of the rad. If you still have the OEM rad don't even bother inspecting it, just replace it.
David Teitelbaum

[Nicholas R]

I think the bottom line with radiators is that you cannot get away with not coating copper/brass radiators, otherwise you get bad oxidation. Painting aluminum isn't necessary and would just give another layer of material to transfer heat through. Really you want as little material as possible because you're transferring WAY more heat via forced convection than radiation.

Also, I think no matter what, if you say something has 3 cores, whether it's better or not, it damn well better have 3 cores.

[DeLorean]

Overall thickness, as well as the spacing of the fins is what's critical here. Automotive radiator cooling capacity should be rated in BTU's based on universal coolant flow amount, but no one does this...

[DMC5180]

I have the so called "heavy duty" 3-row brass (made by Aftermarket Radiator Exchange, Inc) or ARE. They also made a 2-row brass version . The 3-row was about 1/2 inch thicker than NOS and I did have to trim the FAN shroud slightly where it gets close to the crumple tube ends. I've had it in the car 15 years without issue. I plan on updating to DPNW fans this fall. When that happens, I'm going to down size the radiator back to the 2-row with the consensus being it is more efficient and it FITS better.

[r00b]

Can we have metal tanks put on the sides of our old radiators?

[David T]

The short answer is no. The long answer is, it is technically possible but no shop is going to spend the time with the very high probability that it will leak. It is very hard to get the old core clean enough to prevent porosities in the weld. Besides, it is over 25 years old, long past it's intended design service life. Consider the old radiator scrap metal.
David Teitelbaum




Can we have metal tanks put on the sides of our old radiators?

[Ron]

Something I've always thought curious in this discussion is all the hoo-ha about "triple core". Marketing BS in my opinion.
+1
I believe this comes from the old days when the Big Three made tanks with 3 rows of holes. Making a 2 row was as simple as saving the extra flutes at the expense of a bit of solder that would automatically seal one set during the normal process, a bargain. (I've seen some with the 'dimples', but no holes, too.) Guess it just made sense then with one set of rubber mounts, brackets, hoses, etc to manufacture and keep track of...and cost ratios.

[DMCMW Dave]

+1
I believe this comes from the old days when the Big Three made tanks with 3 rows of holes. Making a 2 row was as simple as saving the extra flutes at the expense of a bit of solder that would automatically seal one set during the normal process, a bargain. (I've seen some with the 'dimples', but no holes, too.) Guess it just made sense then with one set of rubber mounts, brackets, hoses, etc to manufacture and keep track of...and cost ratios.

Yes - on cars like Novas/Camaros for example, you'd have a two-core on an 6-cylinder car and a three-core on a V8. Everything fit the same.

[FLUXING]

Is there any engineering proof of this? ANY coating adds a layer to go through for heat exchange unless the paint has a better heat coefficient than the metal...


Believe it or not, black radiates heat better than bare metal, I' m talking about a thin layer of black and not a 1/2" tick coat of paint.

Just look at the heat exchangers installed on electronic boards, if they are painted, they would ne black.

LEVY

[DCUK Martin]

Wow, lots of misinformation going on here. Not pointing the finger, just saying people have gained PhD's on the subject of heat transfer and it's complex. My knowledge is 30 hours of formal teaching across three years of a mechanical engineering degree and I only scratched the surface of the subject!

Heat is transferred from a body by one of three ways: Radiation, conduction and convection.

Conduction is the movement of heat energy through a solid - eg from the coolant within the radiator to the fins on the outside. Some metals are better than others and copper is excellent as not only does it conduct very well, it has a very low specific heat capacity, meaning it doesn't take much energy to heat up nor does it store much.

Now lets look at convection. This can be "free" or "forced" and involves heat being dissipated to a surrounding fluid (in this case, air and indeed in the case of the coolant flowing from engine to radiator).

Free convection is what the radiators in your house rely on. Heat doesn't rise, but hotter air is less dense than colder air and so it rises relative to the surrounding air and in your home, this creates slow currents of moving air around the room.

...but this is not good enough for a car engine which has to dissipate an awful lot of heat energy, so it relies on forced convection. This is where air is blown over the body to allow it to convect heat away at a considerably higher rate - either by the car moving forward, or the fans drawing air through the radiator.

Radiation - part of the electromagnetic spectrum in wavelengths longer than visible red light, aka infra red - is the heat you feel when the sun shines on your back. It's also what you'd feel if you held your hand about 6" away from the car's radiator when there's no air flow.

It is absolutely the case that matt black is a more efficient colour for radiating heat - google "black body heat transfer" if you really want to go to sleep early, but the bottom line is that most of the heat being dissipated by a radiator is by forced convection to the air flowing through it

So where does this leave the double/triple row radiator debate?

Someone said it earlier: the more surface area in contact with the fluid the better. Well yes, but only if the surface area of the cooling fins then amplify it sufficiently. In other words: The overall radiator surface area, the internal surface area as seen by the coolant and the speed of coolant flow through the individual tubes all play a part in a not-at-all-simple function to define the optimum configuration, but I'm happy that all other things being equal (eg not comparing copper with brass) a triple row core will dissipate heat more effectively than a twin row core, but it won't be 50% more effective.

[David T]

Martin, you mixed up 2 things, the # of rows of tubes and wither or not to paint and what color. If 3 rows gives you more TOTAL surface area (on the air side AND the water side) then 3 rows is better. In most cases 2 big rows will beat 3 smaller rows (assuming the same overall dimensions).

On the subject of paint, you are correct, if you want to improve the ability of the heat exchanger to radiate heat, black is a better color. Since, as you point out, the overwhelming majority of the heat is exchanged by convection, NOT radiation, the color has little to do with improving heat exchange. The paint's main purpose is to prevent corrosion. On a copper radiator you are probably better off not painting it. This way you are not adding another layer that the heat has to conduct through. In all cases the thinner the coating of paint the better. I have seen old time radiator shops that used to dip the rads. It winds up plugging some of the space between the rows, blocking air. Not good. Just about everyone sprays them now.
David Teitelbaum

[Bitsyncmaster]

So does each row reverse the direction of coolant flow? I think the point is to get longer distance.

[DCUK Martin]

Actually David, I was very careful in what I wrote: the ability of the radiator to dissipate heat is a function of the internal surface area, the external surface area and *the speed of flow*. By going from single to twin row, you're reducing the cross section area but increasing the surface area (area being proportional to diameter squared). This will increase flow speed. This only really applies to the twin row rads whose depth is the same as oem. The triple row units are usually deeper and again *all other things being equal* must therefore be more effective.



Sent using Tapatalk

[David T]

The differences you are referring to are measurable but inconsequential in the "real world". You are entering the realm of marketing claims and they are always exaggerated.
David Teitelbaum




Actually David, I was very careful in what I wrote: the ability of the radiator to dissipate heat is a function of the internal surface area, the external surface area and *the speed of flow*. By going from single to twin row, you're reducing the cross section area but increasing the surface area (area being proportional to diameter squared). This will increase flow speed. This only really applies to the twin row rads whose depth is the same as oem. The triple row units are usually deeper and again *all other things being equal* must therefore be more effective.



Sent using Tapatalk

[tommyrich]

I think one of the earliest points was Brass vs Aluminum. There is a good article that explains the evolution of the modern radiator (for the layman)

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/rad2.htm

It expains that even thought copper/brass is a better conductor than aluminimum, they are soldered together creating another, less conductive interface. Aluminum radiators can be made with larger diameter tubes (aluminum is stronger than brass) and better tube-to-fin contact.
Tom

[DMCMW Dave]

It expains that even thought copper/brass is a better conductor than aluminimum, they are soldered together creating another, less conductive interface. Aluminum radiators can be made with larger diameter tubes (aluminum is stronger than brass) and better tube-to-fin contact.
Tom

And aluminum is much cheaper and lighter, both very important to car manufacturers.

[DCUK Martin]

The differences you are referring to are measurable but inconsequential in the "real world". You are entering the realm of marketing claims and they are always exaggerated.

No David I'm talking basic physics. I've never even seen an advertisement for a radiator making claims that "3 rows are better than 2" but all other things being equal, it will be unless the flow is disproportionately compromised.

It just won't be 50% better.

[Bitsyncmaster]

New:
Aluminum, 2 core, 1.875" total core thickness, 27 fins, uncoated with bottles polished for even less absorption, core is also about 2" wider left to right than original.

Preliminary tests are good. Pushing the engine hard with AC on MAX I dont even think I've hit 200F yet. Hoping tomorrow will be really hot out so I can test it more in Florida heat.

Since your new one is longer, what did you need to change to install it?

[Chris 16409]

My new radiator from DMCH seems to be chugging right along. I just had my old one (all copper) rebuilt and sold it to my buddy. It's working fine for him. As long as it doesn't leak and not all plugged up, I'm pretty sure they're going to keep the car from overheating (provided your fans are working).

[Nicholas R]

Actually nothing. The overall dimensions didn't change, but the actual core area was larger and the bottles are more low profile. I was surprised. When I helped Cliff Schmucker install this same radiator on his Supra Engine car, we had to grind a little bit away on the fan shroud and make a cut on the radiator shroud. I assumed I'd have to do this but I ended up not having to change anything. It literally went right in. I'm assuming Ed made some tweaks to the overall design between when Cliff bought his and I bought mine.

[DMC5180]

Actually nothing. The overall dimensions didn't change, but the actual core area was larger and the bottles are more low profile. I was surprised. When I helped Cliff Schmucker install this same radiator on his Supra Engine car, we had to grind a little bit away on the fan shroud and make a cut on the radiator shroud. I assumed I'd have to do this but I ended up not having to change anything. It literally went right in. I'm assuming Ed made some tweaks to the overall design between when Cliff bought his and I bought mine.

Did you have to grind on Cliffs Fan Shroud due to added thickness? If so, was it to avoid contacting the Crumple tube ends?

[Ron]

So does each row reverse the direction of coolant flow? I think the point is to get longer distance.

Seems your question got lost in the rush ;-)

No, unlike an AC condenser (you don't want the liquid to expand in a tank....) or most axillary trans coolers (looping around works well enough, cheap), in a Radiator, they all flow in the same direction (tank to tank), the idea is to increase the surface area in contact with the tubes=>fins=>air.

=========

Now what I'd like to know is why it radiates relatively little heat WRT purpose and yet they call it a radiator -- Seems it should be called a convector..."already taken" don't get it...

And totally off subject- Why, on this side of the big pond, does the driver side wiper push its water to the left of the vehicle and down to the middle of the windshield, while the passenger side wiper pushes its water down to the lower right of the windshield and in front of the driver!?!
:tongue:

[Bitsyncmaster]

I just ordered Ed's radiator. Mine is still good but don't trust those plastic tanks.

[Ron]

Windshield Wiper System Designs continued here. (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?4575-Windshield-Wiper-System-Designs)

[jawn101]

Bringing back an old thread here - Dave and Nicholas, a little ways on how are you feeling about the DMC Europe radiator? Things staying cool? I'm finally about to get around to doing mine and am still deciding between the DMCH and DMCEU one.

[Domi]

Bringing back an old thread here - Dave and Nicholas, a little ways on how are you feeling about the DMC Europe radiator? Things staying cool? I'm finally about to get around to doing mine and am still deciding between the DMCH and DMCEU one.

You have another choice here:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?115-52mm-core-radiator
Nevertheless, no news since a few months.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Bringing back an old thread here - Dave and Nicholas, a little ways on how are you feeling about the DMC Europe radiator? Things staying cool? I'm finally about to get around to doing mine and am still deciding between the DMCH and DMCEU one.

I have not had much driving in hot weather yet. Soon will be hot enough to get some results.

[jawn101]

I have not had much driving in hot weather yet. Soon will be hot enough to get some results.

Roger that. Happy with the fit/finish/construction/etc? No reason to think otherwise, but it's an expensive part :)

[Bitsyncmaster]

Roger that. Happy with the fit/finish/construction/etc? No reason to think otherwise, but it's an expensive part :)

I had to open up one of the lower mounting holes but otherwise it fit just like the OEM unit. It is a little longer but no problem with the fit. It cost about the same as vendors in the USA (I bought it when the exchange rate was in my favor).

[Nicholas R]

Roger that. Happy with the fit/finish/construction/etc? No reason to think otherwise, but it's an expensive part :)


I had to open up one of the lower mounting holes but otherwise it fit just like the OEM unit. It is a little longer but no problem with the fit. It cost about the same as vendors in the USA (I bought it when the exchange rate was in my favor).

I know for a fact that it would have been more expensive for me to buy and ship DMCH's aluminum radiator than it did for me to buy and ship DMCEU's radiator. Ed's prices include the European value-added tax (because in Europe they assess the tax BEFORE listing the price, instead of after like we do in the US). In the Netherlands where DMCEU is, that tax is 19%. Whenever I've bought from Ed, he always sends me a revised invoice without that tax because I'm buying from the US (anyone else experience this?). It makes a pretty significant difference. And Ed is very good on shipping. He gave me a choice of 2 carriers and I chose the cheaper of the 2. The radiator took 9 days to arrive once the order was placed.

Construction is amazing. All polished, welded aluminum, fit like a glove. I didn't have to do any modifications at all. It was a perfect direct replacement.

As far as performance? Phenomenal to say the least. By far the best radiator on the market.

The brass radiator I had worked excellent for the PRV. I spent a lot of time in the middle Florida's hot summers with the AC on full blast, and my brass radiator worked great. Never got much above 205-210 degrees, even in traffic.

Once I did the LS1 swap, that was not the case. Up in Ohio on a cloudy day with the AC on, I could see 230 degrees with my brass radiator. Aint nobody got time for that!! I drove to Florida for DCS and because I worked there last summer, and at the beginning of the summer I still had the brass radiator. I had to constantly moderate my AC usage. If I didn't use the AC I usually hung out around 217-220, but once I started using AC it was climbing fast. Also my radiator fans ran constantly.

The week after DCS I installed Ed's radiator and it's been smooth sailing ever sinse! I thought it was too good to be true. A few days after I installed it, I decided to really test it. It was about 100 degrees out (no joke), and I decided to take a route that I knew would be gridlock traffic, with the AC on full blast. The absolute highest temperature I read was 208 degrees while in traffic. Then once I actually started moving, it dropped back down under 200. That 208 is still the hottest I've seen since. Honestly, for the most part I very rarely even break 200 now. I have the otterstat that comes on at a lower temperature, and my fans very rarely actually come on; pretty much only when the AC kicks on, and that cooling easily compensates for the extra heat generated.

Bottom line, Ed's radiator is awesome and I couldn't praise it enough. :thumbup:

Honestly with as much of a difference as it made on my car, I'm curious the difference it makes on a normal car. Maybe it keeps it too cold! :wink: I remember Ed telling me that many people that use his radiator very rarely have their fans kick on.

EDIT: Just fyi, with the exception of the PRV temperatures, all the temperatures listed were read using an OBDII scanner connected to the engine. As hot as I was getting, I didn't trust the gauge and wanted to know exactly what I was dealing with.

EDIT 2: Also, in case anyone cares, the car with the 2JZ Supra engine also has Ed's radiator, and the results are similar. Once we got the AC going last year, the combination of intercooler/condenser/radiator was making a lot of heat. Ed's radiator pretty much solved that issue too.

[jawn101]

I'm with Dave on price. Jon, I'm not sure what you paid for yours, but I know for a fact that it would have been more expensive for me to buy and ship DMCH's aluminum radiator than it did for me to buy and ship DMCEU's radiator.

As far as performance? Phenomenal to say the least. By far the best radiator on the market.

The brass radiator I had worked excellent for the PRV. I spent a lot of time in the middle Florida's hot summers with the AC on full blast, and my brass radiator worked great. Never got much above 205-210 degrees, even in traffic.

Once I did the LS1 swap, that was not the case. Up in Ohio on a cloudy day with the AC on, I could see 230 degrees with my brass radiator. Aint nobody got time for that!! I drove to Florida for DCS and because I worked there last summer, and at the beginning of the summer I still had the brass radiator. I had to constantly moderate my AC usage. If I didn't use the AC I usually hung out around 217-220, but once I started using AC it was climbing fast. Also my radiator fans ran constantly.

The week after DCS I installed Ed's radiator and it's been smooth sailing ever sinse! I thought it was too good to be true. A few days after I installed it, I decided to really test it. It was about 100 degrees out (no joke), and I decided to take a route that I knew would be gridlock traffic, with the AC on full blast. The absolute highest temperature I read was 208 degrees while in traffic. Then once I actually started moving, it dropped back down under 200. That 208 is still the hottest I've seen since. Honestly, for the most part I very rarely even break 200 now. I have the otterstat that comes on at a lower temperature, and my fans very rarely actually come on; pretty much only when the AC kicks on, and that cooling easily compensates for the extra heat generated.

Bottom line, Ed's radiator is awesome and I couldn't praise it enough. :thumbup:

Honestly with as much of a difference as it made on my car, I'm curious the difference it makes on a normal car. Maybe it keeps it too cold! :wink: I remember Ed telling me that many people that use his radiator very rarely have their fans kick on.

EDIT: Just fyi, with the exception of the PRV temperatures, all the temperatures listed were read using an OBDII scanner connected to the engine. As hot as I was getting, I didn't trust the gauge and wanted to know exactly what I was dealing with.

Oh, awesome. Just the kind of info I was hoping for. That makes my decision very, very easy. Out of curiosity, does Ed include the mounting bushings like DMCH does? Just wondering in case I need to order new ones separately. I already plan to get new lower mounting brackets, mine got mangled when a PO beached the car on a curb or driveway or something.

[1batt4u]

I bought Ed's aluminum radiator also. Still yet to install, car is under work. It looks great, good quality!

One thing is the radiator doesn't have center holes top and bottom to mount fan/radiator shroud. I have to make 2 holes for the top and bottom. The top 2 side holes align, the bottom 2 side holes don't align.

[jawn101]

I ordered Ed's radiator today as well. Looking forward to getting it. Hope I don't need to do much modifying to make it fit, I'm not really set up for that kind of thing. Looking forward to seeing it!

[Chris 16409]

My friend Ruben here on the forum bought and Installed Ed's radiator. I was able to inspect it before he put it on, and it was very nice. I believe he had to buy some studs to screw into the lower mounting points. They didn't come integrated like the other radiators available. I am still running the DMC-H radiator. It seems to keep my car cooler than my old brass one did.

[elfking]

I ordered Ed's radiator today as well. Looking forward to getting it. Hope I don't need to do much modifying to make it fit, I'm not really set up for that kind of thing. Looking forward to seeing it!

Let me know how it goes I'm in the market as well for the Island Turbo project !!

[Nicholas R]

Honestly I cannot remember if Ed's came with the mounting bushings or not... Anyone else remember? Also, Eds does not have M10 studs on the bottom of it like normal. Instead, there are two welded nuts/inserts on the bottom that receive an M10x1.5 bolt. If I recall correctly, somewhere around 30mm long M10's are needed to mount it, and I do remember that bolts were not included. Had to get them from the hardware store. Cost about $1 for the pair because I sprung for SS bolts :wink:

[1batt4u]

Honestly I cannot remember if Ed's came with the mounting bushings or not... Anyone else remember? Also, Eds does not have M10 studs on the bottom of it like normal. Instead, there are two welded nuts/inserts on the bottom that receive an M10x1.5 bolt. If I recall correctly, somewhere around 30mm long M10's are needed to mount it, and I do remember that bolts were not included. Had to get them from the hardware store. Cost about $1 for the pair because I sprung for SS bolts :wink:

My radiator came with mounting bushings, they should come with the radiator. I also had to buy the bolts as it did not come with them. Stainless Steel 18-8, 30mm long. I wasn't sure is those were good enough or I should go for 10.9 grade bolts, but since you bought S/S bolts also, I guess they are good.

[Morpheus]

Hey Nick, any chance of an installed pic? I'd like to see how everything lines up. :)

[LEVY]

I have a friend who owns a Radiator factory. Last time he made a Delorean radiator for me he wasn't there, so I spoke to a lady there, before she saw the radiator she asked if it was for a forklift or for a stationary machinery, I asked her why, she explained that they use different type of core because no much air ciculation on those applications.

My question is, would a Delorean benefit if that kind of radiator core is used instead of the one currently used?

LEVY

[Nicholas R]

Hey Nick, any chance of an installed pic? I'd like to see how everything lines up. :)

What do you want to see? The mounting brackets? The ports? Fan shroud? I'll try to take a photo or two but the area is tight so I want to know what to focus on.

The radiator truly dropped right in though. No modifications anywhere. I actually helped Cliff S. install one of Ed's radiators on a car a few years ago and we had to modify and notch both the fan shroud and the radiator shroud to get it all to fit. Ed has definitely updated and refined and updated the design since then for better packaging and now fits perfectly.

With regard to the mounting bolts, yes, SS bolts are fine. This is by no means a high load area. A 10.9 grade bolt has a tensile strength of about 150,000 psi where the SS bolts are around 80,000-100,000 psi (depending on quality). The cross sectional area of an M10 bolt is ~ .1in^2. Even to fail the SS bolt it would take a minimum 8,000lb tensile loading on one bolt just for it to fail. The mounting brackets that are held on by M6 bolts would be destroyed long before the M10s holding the radiator were affected. The only loading these bolts will see is the opposing force from compressing the rubber bushings, lol :D

[jawn101]

The radiator truly dropped right in though. No modifications anywhere.

Awesome, that's what I like to hear :) No word from Ed but he said it was a 4 day ship time. Looking forward to seeing it!

[Morpheus]

As for the pics, just a couple showing the fit of the fan shroud and the mounting brackets/SS bolts and maybe one from the side. Thanks man!

[1batt4u]

Awesome, that's what I like to hear :) No word from Ed but he said it was a 4 day ship time. Looking forward to seeing it!

I got it in 3 weeks, and was missing the rubber bushings. He sent them once told him they were missing.

[Nicholas R]

I got it in 3 weeks, and was missing the rubber bushings. He sent them once told him they were missing.

I remember via the tracking that mine did hold up in customs for a few days. I guess it all depends how long that takes.

I'll try to get pics soon. I've got my final final exams the next 2 days so it may not get to it until the end of the week but I'll try.

[jawn101]

I got it in 3 weeks, and was missing the rubber bushings. He sent them once told him they were missing.

True to his word, it looks like mine is already past customs in New Jersey after 2 days. Will end up being 6 total because of a pesky weekend in the mix, but still not too bad :)

[jawn101]

True to his word, it looks like mine is already past customs in New Jersey after 2 days. Will end up being 6 total because of a pesky weekend in the mix, but still not too bad :)

Wow. Just got the radiator in, 4 business days exactly. For a custom designed part. All the way from the other side of the planet. Meanwhile I've been waiting 3 weeks for a lousy pack of copper washers from a vendor a few hundred miles away.

Props to Ed, this thing looks bulletproof. I love the welded side tanks - there's no way those will leak. And all the bushings/hardware were included. Looking forward to the job!

[Nicholas R]

Wow. Just got the radiator in, 4 business days exactly. For a custom designed part. All the way from the other side of the planet. Meanwhile I've been waiting 3 weeks for a lousy pack of copper washers from a vendor a few hundred miles away.

Props to Ed, this thing looks bulletproof. I love the welded side tanks - there's no way those will leak. And all the bushings/hardware were included. Looking forward to the job!

That was pretty much my reaction too when I saw it! :D

As for that other vendor you're waiting on.... yea... WTF is going on? I ordered 8 bushings on April 8th (nothing else, just 8 bushings), he said he finally shipped them yesterday, April 24th, 16 days later (I've already missed lost days when I planned to install them). "One man operation" or not, there is no excuse for that. That is simply bad business.

[jawn101]

That was pretty much my reaction too when I saw it! :D

As for that other vendor you're waiting on.... yea... WTF is going on? I ordered 8 bushings on April 8th (nothing else, just 8 bushings), he said he finally shipped them yesterday, April 24th, 16 days later (I've already missed lost days when I planned to install them). "One man operation" or not, there is no excuse for that. That is simply bad business.

No fooling. Not to turn this into yet another thread about the one man operation, or anything.

I'm really looking forward to installing this radiator now. I had it sitting on my desk at work all day (I'm like a little kid when parts come in, I have to open them right away and play) and this one got a lot of attention, especially from other gearheads. I especially like the bolt-into-radiator lower mounting as opposed to the nut-on-post of the original.