Removing the rear hub carrier?

[jangell]

One of my rear hub bearings is failing, and rather than deal with getting the hub pressed out, I decided to replace the entire carrier with a powder coated one from DPI. The problem is that I'm still pretty new to a this sort of thing.

A few of months ago a friend (who knew what he ws doing) helped me remove one of the carriers for a repair. It took him maybe 20 minutes, and it was the first time he'd removed one from the DMC, so I figured it cant be too hard. But this time I'm on my own, and I'm a bit stuck.

I had no problem getting the six drive shaft nuts off, and the lower control arm nylock nut came off easily enough, although it was warm from the friction when I finally removed it (it and the bolt were replaced recently; my friend and I had to cut out the original).

The problem is that I can't figure out how to get the bolt itself out of the lower control arm and shock. I can spin the bolt with a wrench, so it isn't seized. It seems like there's some force that's locking it into place. I tried using a jack to lift the shock as suggested in the workshop manual, thinking that this would reduce the pressure and let me slide the bolt out, but after trying a number of heights I didn't make any progress on loosening the bolt itself. I also tried knocking it out with a block of wood and a hammer, but this had no effect at all.

So, what's the trick to removing the rear hub carrier from the car?

I also still have to remove the upper bolt (I figured that would be easier once the spring is out of the way, and that's original so I mint need to cut it out) and take off the caliper (once I figure out how that's mounted), remove the rotor and detach the carrier from the trailing arm. Hopefully those will bless trouble.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[DMC5180]

One of my rear hub bearings is failing, and rather than deal with getting the hub pressed out, I decided to replace the entire carrier with a powder coated one from DPI. The problem is that I'm still pretty new to a this sort of thing.

A few of months ago a friend (who knew what he ws doing) helped me remove one of the carriers for a repair. It took him maybe 20 minutes, and it was the first time he'd removed one from the DMC, so I figured it cant be too hard. But this time I'm on my own, and I'm a bit stuck.

I had no problem getting the six drive shaft nuts off, and the lower control arm nylock nut came off easily enough, although it was warm from the friction when I finally removed it (it and the bolt were replaced recently; my friend and I had to cut out the original).

The problem is that I can't figure out how to get the bolt itself out of the lower control arm and shock. I can spin the bolt with a wrench, so it isn't seized. It seems like there's some force that's locking it into place. I tried using a jack to lift the shock as suggested in the workshop manual, thinking that this would reduce the pressure and let me slide the bolt out, but after trying a number of heights I didn't make any progress on loosening the bolt itself. I also tried knocking it out with a block of wood and a hammer, but this had no effect at all.

So, what's the trick to removing the rear hub carrier from the car?

I also still have to remove the upper bolt (I figured that would be easier once the spring is out of the way, and that's original so I mint need to cut it out) and take off the caliper (once I figure out how that's mounted), remove the rotor and detach the carrier from the trailing arm. Hopefully those will bless trouble.

Thanks!

-- Joe

Sometimes you can back the bolt out part way (unscrewing with a ratchet) and rapping the thread end with a soft hammer. Someone probably over tightened the bolt which could have crushed the shock eye bushing sleeve. You probably have reduced diameter ridge catching on the threads. Unscrewing the bolt usually will work. Once the bolt end is flush with the shock, pry the shock end off. CAUTION The hub carrier will pop up an inch or two due to torque preloading of the other(still tight) control arm bolts.

Are going to leave the Shock/Spring hanging? It does not need to be removed completely for carrier removal.

[jangell]

Sometimes you can back the bolt out part way (unscrewing with a ratchet) and rapping the thread end with a soft hammer. Someone probably over tightened the bolt which could have crushed the shock eye bushing sleeve. You probably have reduced diameter ridge catching on the threads. Unscrewing the bolt usually will work. Once the bolt end is flush with the shock, pry the shock end off. CAUTION The hub carrier will pop up an inch or two due to torque preloading of the other(still tight) control arm bolts.

Thanks for the info. My attempt at hammering against a block of wood to protect the bolt failed to do anything. I put the nut on a few turns and hammered that, and it worked much better, although now I need a new but. :) The tip to pry the shock off worked great! Now to get those brake caliper bots off...


Are going to leave the Shock/Spring hanging? It does not need to be removed completely for carrier removal.

Yes, I'm just going to leave it hanging.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[jangell]

The brake calipers were easy enough to get out once I realize I could get a socket in from behind. Of course I didn't figure his out until ipI'd spent far too much time trying to undo them with a wrench.

The upper link arm bolt broke free easily, and I was able to remove it by hammering on it with a piece of wood to protect the bolt.

The lower link arm bolt is still in there quite snugly, even though the shock is no longer on it. Next weekend I'm going to try hammering on a punch to push it out. My frind and I replaced this bolt just a few months ago, so it seems odd that it's so hard to remove. I'm wondering if it might have anything to do with the polyurethane bushings or the adjustable link arms; I had theorized that the bushings might be tight for the bolt (although I don't remember that being the case when we installed them), or that the link arm adjuster had rotated slightly causing it bind against the bolt, but I'm not really sure if either if there's are true. Maybe there's just corrosion on the sleeves inside the link arms again; we did notice thatcher cutting out the old bolt a few months back. Although that also seems odd, since it has only been drivien a few hundred miles since then.

Anyway, I expect I'll have this all resolved next weekend. Thanks!

-- Joe

[DMC5180]

Be careful using a punch too. If you mushroom the end you will be cutting it out. Did The bolt back out at all will Rotating it? Did you replace the bolt with NOS hardware?

[jangell]

Be careful using a punch too. If you mushroom the end you will be cutting it out. Did The bolt back out at all will Rotating it? Did you replace the bolt with NOS hardware?

I did replace it with NOS hardware. I didn't notice the bolt backing out at all when I turned it before taking the shock off, but I didn't try it after that. I'll certainly try again before resorting to a punch. I can also try using the punch on the underside of the head to avoid mushrooming the end, assuming tha provides enough force in the right direction (it worked with a block of wood on the upper bolt, at least). luckily I have an extra bolt -- I ordered a replacement in case I broke the top one, but it was fine and both outs appear to be the same.

-- Joe

[jangell]

I managed to get the hub carrier off last weekend. I did have to resort to using a punch to hammer out the bolt (luckily I didn't damage it -- turns out the upper and lower link arm bolts are not the same after all, with the lower being longer to account for the shock mounting).

I started mounting the new hub carrier with the original bolt. Interestingly enough, it would not easily slide through the arm. I had to lightly tap it up until I got to the link arm bushing, at which point I had to really hammer the rest of the way through. I'm back to thinking that the link arm bushings (which were repurposed polyurethane ones meant for the front of the car) are what is making this so difficult; perhaps they use a slightly smaller bolt than the standard ones?

In any case, I have the lower link arm and shock in place, and I have the trailing arm bolts mounted to the hub carrier. I'm hoping to get it finished up today so that I can move on to some cooling fan work. Now I just have to figure out how to get the upper link arm to line up...


And now for a new but related question: The old hub had quite a lot of grease in it, and a lot still remains on the driveshaft that mates to the hub. So:
- Should I add more grease (I assuming I should, since the new hub is completely dry)?
- Should I clean out the existing grease before adding new grease?
- What should I use for grease?
- How much grease should I use?
- What's the best way to apply it?

I've attached some pictures showing the new, partially mounted hub carrier, as well as how much grease is packed in the driveshaft and the old hub.

Thanks!

-- Joe

Grease in the old hub and the driveshaft. It looks more black than green in real life:
11675 11676

The new partially-mounted powder coated hub carrier from DPI:
11674

[Nicholas R]

I'm pretty sure that is not a place you put grease. I've installed drive shafts dozens of times and never heard of putting grease there. Those two planes are static relative to one another; nothing is supposed move. 6 bolts aren't going to let those 2 planes move. Putting grease there is only going to make a mess.

EDIT: Actually after looking at your photo again, It looks like your outer CV joint cover is still stuck to the original hub carrier (really the inner flange on the spindle). That's why you can see the inside of the CV joint. All the grease should be in the CV joint assemblies only.

[jangell]

EDIT: Actually after looking at your photo again, It looks like your outer CV joint cover is still stuck to the original hub carrier (really the inner flange on the spindle). That's why you can see the inside of the CV joint. All the grease should be in the CV joint assemblies only.

Ah -- you're right. It never even occurred to me that there was a separate cover there. I cleaned the grease off it so I could compare it to my new hub, and they definitely do look different (although I guess the grease alone should have been enough). Good thing I didnt send the old core back to Josh yet :) anyway, I was able to pop it off easily enough.

Ok, so now apply all my previous questions to the CV joint. :)

- Should I clean out the existing grease before adding new grease?
- What should I use for grease?
- How much grease should I use?
- What's the best way to apply it?

Also, can I just push the cover back on and bolt it into place, or have I now compromised it in some way? It doesn't seem bent or otherwise damaged.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[jmpdmc]

I used this guide and it is great: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1288-How-To-Rebuild-the-CV-Joints Well worth doing and relatively easy.


Jeff

[jangell]

I used this guide and it is great: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1288-How-To-Rebuild-the-CV-Joints Well worth doing and relatively easy.

Thanks -- that's very helpful. While I want to be lazy and just add more grease, it's rather likely that I got some random grime in there, so I really should do it.

One further question: I found a 5mm (maybe 7mm) long black pan head torx-style screw (M6 size?) with all the other parts I removed to get the hub carrier off. Since this has been a multi-week project, I can't actually remember if I took it off the DMC or if it was just on the floor. It seems odd that a torx screw would have been used, and I couldn't find it in the parts manuals, but I just want to be sure. Does anyone remember this part?

Thanks!

-- Joe

[DMC5180]

Can you post a picture of it? Probably left over from another garage project though. I'm not sure Torx had been invented when our cars were built. They seemed to show up on everything GM in the first half of the 80's though.

[DMCMW Dave]

Can you post a picture of it? Probably left over from another garage project though. I'm not sure Torx had been invented when our cars were built. They seemed to show up on everything GM in the first half of the 80's though.


Number 23 on this page:

http://store.delorean.com/c-299-6-2-1-parking-brake.aspx

[DMC5180]

Not a torx, but a misidentified Posi-drive screw.

[DMCMW Dave]

Not a torx, but a misidentified Posi-drive screw. Any idea why DeLorean calls this style a SEMS screw?

[jangell]

Number 23 on this page:

http://store.delorean.com/c-299-6-2-1-parking-brake.aspx

Aha, thanks!

Ok.. It seems I already put a remarkably similarly sized Philips screw at that location. So... Anyone know where a small black Philips screw goes? :) I'll have to flip through the parts manual again, and take another look at the assembly next weekend.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[DMC5180]

Machine screw or Sheet metal?

No clue clue on the SEMS I've never heard it before. Perhaps an acronym for something.


EDIT: Just looked it up SEMS = Machine screw w/ lock washer is the common definition Not a drive style.

[jangell]

Machine screw or Sheet metal?.

Sorry, I don't remember. I'll have to report back when I have it in hand.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[jangell]

Finally back to my car, and it looks like the screw I mounted is the correct one i reached this conclusion because the screws are different diameters. Ive attached pictures of both screws, with the Posidrive on the left:

11919

Here is the Philips screw mounted on the arm that holds the parking brake cable to the hub carrier:

11920

Looking at the parts manual, it seems that this is where the Posidrive screw should go, according to #23 in the Parts Manual 6/2/1.

The Posidrive is smaller than M6, which is what #23 is supposed to be. I'm thinking that the original screw was replaced with this Philips screw, and that the smaller Posidrive I do have goes somewhere else. I just have no idea where -- there are no SEMS screws in that section of the parts manual smaller than M6. Maybe I removed something from the caliper itself while I was figuring out how to get everything apart or something?

Thanks!

-- Joe

[jangell]

I rebuilt the CV joint (easy enough with those instructions Jeff linked to, although I couldn't figure out how to tighten the metal bands for the boot and went with heavy-duty zip ties instead), tightened everything down and drove the car home from the garage today. I'm still not sure what that Posidrive screw was for, but I didn't see any obvious place where it goes. I have to get the tires aligned soon, so I figure I"ll have the shop give my work a once-over just to be sure.

Thanks everyone for your help! Next up, DMCPartsNW's radiator fans and front sway bar bushings, which have been sitting on my shelf for the last month. :)

-- Joe

[jangell]

Some quick updates when I brought the car in for an alignment today:

- Large plastic zip ties do not work reliably for the axle boots, as I'm sure everyone else knows. I had the shop check it out while it was there, and it was leaking some grease. They weren't able to get the metal clamps on that came with the kit (I probably bent them too much trying to get them on without the proper tool, or even an understanding of how they were meant to be tightened at the time), so they used the kind of clamp that was originally on the boot.

- That mystery screw is indeed a torx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozidriv#Hexalobular_socket) screw, but it is likely not from the DeLorean. I recently started renting a garage so I could work on my car, and I think it happened to be lying on the ground and I thought it was a DMC part. Know I know that a Pozidriv (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozidriv#Pozidriv) screw is basically a modified Philips screw, and that there is indeed a Pozidriv screw in the hand brake mount.

Beyond that, everything is good. Thanks again for all the assistance!

-- Joe