Spec .01 Exhaust

[stevedmc]

Does anyone have any pictures of Bill's Spec .01 Exhaust and what he used? I am ready to replace my exhaust as my muffler heat shield is almost toast and simply don't want to deal with the heat problem any longer.

[SamHill]

I'll let Bill chime in with the JC Whitney parts list, of which the size of the flanges are the most important bit of information as to what you need most. The rest is just u -bolts, flex pipe, and whatever mufflers you decide you want to use. (I used BMW Motorcycle Pipes.)

Though it seems easy on the surface, it wasn't the easiest of jobs mostly because of the state of the frozen studs. If I had to do it over, I'd go ahead and send off the exhaust manifolds to be blasted and rethreaded. There were also several adjustments that had to be made to secure the pipes in place so that it wouldn't move around and "shift" after a drive. The main interference problem for me was the passenger side, where the exhaust pipe coming out touches the fiberglass underbody. I didn't cut the underbody, I just forced the pipe up as far as it would go and made sure it was firmly in place with braces.

I'm glad it's done and I don't want to do it again any time soon. It will be easy as pie to get off if I ever decide on something else.

[stevedmc]

This is just a thought but has anyone considered running just one muffler using the existing crossover instead of running tubing to each header for dual mufflers?

I like the idea of two mufflers but it would be much easier to install just one and to use the existing crossover.

[content22207]

My particular exhaust system was designed expressly to eliminate the crossover pipe. #5939 was still running K-Jet when it was installed. My intention then was to access things like the ignition distributor, slave cylinder, heater core shutoff valve, etc from below (I had no idea at the time that I would be running a carburetor 16 months later, making all those things accessible from above). Without a crossover pipe in the way, K-Jet maintenance really isn't too bad from underneath the car.

There indeed is a recess cast into the driver side pontoon for the stock exhaust system. I cut a matching recess in the passenger side. My intention was to re-fiberglass the cut out piece upside down, making both sides identical, but I misplaced the piece. It was just found again over the winter.

#5939's exhaust system was never intended to be a prototype for others. I simply wanted better engine access for myself, so I rigged up something that accomplished it (for less than $150, thank you very much). Increased performance was just a fringe benefit. Space outside the engine cradle is totally wasted. Makes no sense to jamb everything in tightly when you can spread it out and get much better access. That's my biggest complaint about the headers vendors sell -- they are still all in the way. #5939's exhaust system may not be perfect, but it does allow unfettered access to the engine:
1274 1273

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207]

Since I already had my floor jack and camera out to photograph #5939's front end, I decided to snap a complete series of the exhaust system in back:
1302 1301 1295 1300 1296 1299 1298 1297

Yes, I do have more room to work on my engine:
1304

In another thread, owners were moaning and complaining about access for the slave cylinder (personally I don't see what all the fuss is about):
1303

If K-Jetters have never seen Spark Plug #4, this is what it looks like:
1305

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

If K-Jetters have never seen Spark Plug #4, this is what it looks like:
1305


That looks more like a spark plug boot to me.

[stevedmc]

Bill, on the old forum you posted information about the tubing size and clamps you had to use. Do you still have this information? I am seriously considering placing an order with JC Whitney over the next day or so and have no clue where to begin.

[content22207]

Says the man who hurt my feelings Re: Spark Plug #4....

$ 32 (2) McMaster Part #45735K295 (304 stainless pipe stub, 1 1/2 NPT, schedule 10)
$ 0 (6) 2" stainless guillotine clamps (I will give these to you if you find me 2 cardboard door headliner backing boards)
$ 72 JC Whitney Part #1JA 214045 (11 ft 304 stainless flex tubing, 1 7/8" ID, 2" OD)
$150 (2) Jegs Part #642-11134 (Magnaflow 3.5x7x14 inch stainless muffler, 2" offset inlet/outlet)
$ 20 eBay Auction #130469878213 (2 ft stainless exhaust tubing, 2" OD)
$ 14 (4) Autozone muffler hangers
----
$288 (Approximately double what I paid in 2003, albeit with $15 carbon steel mufflers)

Does not include el fake'o make believe catalytic converters.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Wow, thank you so much for the info. I was never expecting such a breakdown.

I have some headliner boards laying around I can send you. I replaced mine with fiberglass units a while back. I'll see if I can get you some pictures of them tomorrow.

Btw, I was just being sarcastic about plug #4. I love how easy it is to access everything. In fact, I took my carburetor off yesterday just to inspect my intake valley just for giggles. It was filthy down there.

[content22207]

Btw, I was just being sarcastic about plug #4. I love how easy it is to access everything. In fact, I took my carburetor off yesterday just to inspect my intake valley just for giggles.

I find it difficult to inspect the intake valley by removing the carburetor alone -- you really should remove the intake manifold as well.

(Sarcasm turn about is fair play...).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

I was going to mention removing the manifold but I figured it might be taken as if I removed it from the carb as well. I just can't win tonight.

[content22207]

Send me a couple of door headliner backer boards, and this could turn out to be the luckiest night of your life....

(#2508 showed up virtually complete, but those were unfortunately missing).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Will do. I will snap you some pictures of them, they need to be recovered. I tried doing them myself and did a sloppy job.

Are the Magnaflow mufflers loud? I like the idea of the extra power but I don't want to sound like one of those teenagers that drives a honda civic with a loud exhaust. If it isn't too bad I'll probably go with it, but I like the idea of a quiet exhaust. I'm stock right now and the sound is fine with me.

[content22207]

You've heard how loud my $15 mufflers are. The only problem with them is people give me shit for not buying stainless ones (nobody made stainless ones small enough to fit in 2003).

Given how badly the stainless tubing has discolored over the years, does it even matter?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[SamHill]

Do not forget the time honored tradition of owners that change exhausts: detach your disintegrating heat shield and wave it wildly in the air until you create a "snow" of swirling fibres. Dance among the fibres while trying to breathe them in. As an added bonus, collecting loose fibres and spreading them in your cabin helps keep heat out! Yay!*



(*Do not actually do this.)

[stevedmc]

As promised here are the headliner pictures. They are in good shape but need new tree fasteners and to be recovered by someone who knows what they are doing. Shoot me a PM with your address and I'll try to get them off to you today. I'm hoping to order my stuff today and have it here for the weekend. I'm off work Friday and it would be a great day to do this project.

[stevedmc]

Do not forget the time honored tradition of owners that change exhausts: detach your disintegrating heat shield and wave it wildly in the air until you create a "snow" of swirling fibres. Dance among the fibres while trying to breathe them in. As an added bonus, collecting loose fibres and spreading them in your cabin helps keep heat out! Yay!*



(*Do not actually do this.)

Maybe I should just put on my pimp suit and take a bath in them instead.

[stevedmc]

Wow it is tough making a muffler decision. I keep debating the muffler sound and of course cost. I think I could get used to a loud exhaust in exchange for performance. Anyway, I'm debating between Magnaflow and a cheap Maremont exhaust from JC Whitney. The benefit of ordering the Maremont from JC Whitney is cost and of course combined shipping. Of course the Magnaflow is stainless and I wouldnt have to worry about rust. Choices choices.




http://www.jcwhitney.com/high-performance-aluminized-turbo-muffler/p2006479.jcwx?skuId=280355&filterid=c10832d392y1981f4j1#
Available in 2 inlet/outlet configurations (see diagram at left). 3-5/8" x 8" oval cases are 13" long. 17" long overall.

[Farrar]

My choice would be stainless, but if cost is a factor, you could always "upgrade" to stainless later.

Farrar (still running Houston's loud and rusty Stage I)

[stevedmc]

My choice would be stainless, but if cost is a factor, you could always "upgrade" to stainless later.

Farrar (still running Houston's loud and rusty Stage I)

Yeah. I decided to go ahead and order the stainless Magnaflow. Now I will have a lifetime warranty on the mufflers and an exhaust that is completely stainless.

Everything is ordered (that needs to be) and I'm happily waiting for the stuff to come in. Now I just need to complete the deal with Bill and get down to Autozone for some exhaust mounts.

[content22207]

I will probably ship the stainless guillotine clamps via USPS. If they fail to show up in time, you can always assemble the system with Autozone clamps ($1.99 each), then replace them when the box arrives. PM me with a street address.

Jegs orders show up via Fed Ex on the second day.

JC Whitney usually ships via UPS, and it can take a week or more.

The only studs you need to reuse are the ones that hold the crossover pipe to the exhaust manifolds -- be very careful removing those nuts. If at all possible, heat them up with acetylene. You can also try a nut splitter. If a Dremel tool will reach, you may be able to cut them off with abrasive wheels. Do yourself a favor and use stainless nuts to hold the new system. They're a common thread (M10x1.5 IIRC).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Pm sent earlier this morning. Thanks.

[content22207]

The New & Improved DMCTalk doesn't send eMail notifications of PM's.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[sean]

The New & Improved DMCTalk doesn't send eMail notifications of PM's.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Settings->General Settings->Receive Email Notification of new Private Messages

Is this selected?

Anyone else with this issue?

[dmc6960]

Settings->General Settings->Receive Email Notification of new Private Messages

Is this selected?

Anyone else with this issue?

Mine was not enabled by default unlike the old DMCTalk. After I realized I was missing PMs I turned on both email and popup notification manually and I haven't got a PM since!

[thegovernor9912]

Thanks for posting this up Bill, I have been planning on doing this to my car since my D devolped tractor like systems last year.

Where in the BR 0.1 system is the McMaster carr part used?

[content22207]

Stub ends mate the flex tubing to the manifolds. On #5939 I made stub ends from pipe nipples and pipe nuts:
1376
(Please excuse the annotations -- this is the only pic I have on this machine. IS ANYBODY EVER GOING TO MOVE PHOTO ARCHIVES FROM THE OLD SITE TO THIS ONE?)

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

IS ANYBODY EVER GOING TO MOVE PHOTO ARCHIVES FROM THE OLD SITE TO THIS ONE?)

I'm beginning to think there isn't a backup.

[sean]

Stub ends mate the flex tubing to the manifolds. On #5939 I made stub ends from pipe nipples and pipe nuts:
1376
(Please excuse the annotations -- this is the only pic I have on this machine. IS ANYBODY EVER GOING TO MOVE PHOTO ARCHIVES FROM THE OLD SITE TO THIS ONE?)

Bill Robertson
#5939

So did you figure out how to turn your email notification on Bill or do we need to resort back to an antiquated version of forum software that you better understand :wink:

[SamHill]

I'm beginning to think there isn't a backup.

The only thing anybody cares about was the resources. We like to have conversations, but I hardly think they are worth saving for posterity and paying for the wasted space forever. A reset every once in a while isn't a terrible thing.

[I'd say "nothing on the internet ever truly dies" but DMCwiki did when it was relentlessly spammed to death. It would have been nice to have a VINlist that everyone could contribute to for easy access when a car comes up for sale, special VINS, etc, instead of it being protected information. TXDMC could fill that role
( http://www.txdmc.org/) if it allowed for special information and pictures about each VIN from the owners.]

[Ashyukun]

Looking at the pictures of the muffler mounts Bill, I'm curious- if you used a muffler that wasn't completely offset, but had the inlet in the middle and outlet on an end, could the mufflers be rotated so they didn't hang down either as much or at all? The ones Steve was originally considering were offered in that setup, and I'd imagine that there are Magnaflows that are similar.

I'm probably going to be going with a very similar setup myself, though I'm probably going to be trying some tricks with the manifolds (specifically, picking up some Premier manifolds to try and not have to loop the piping around the front...).

[thegovernor9912]

Thanks Bill,


Please bring back the emergency parts cross over list . It was very helpful.

[stevedmc]

I'm probably going to be going with a very similar setup myself, though I'm probably going to be trying some tricks with the manifolds (specifically, picking up some Premier manifolds to try and not have to loop the piping around the front...).

In my opinion the benefit of using the existing manifolds in place is you don't have to take them off. Taking them off can be a chore if you have to deal with rusted bolts and such. Mine shouldnt be rusted since I recently swapped engines and transfered my old manifolds but regardless, leaving them on is one less thing to worry about.

On another note, I got an email from JC Whitney today with a coupon for 15% off. When I ordered the other day I got free shipping but it might be possible to get free shipping and 15% off. The promo code is BUYJCW7 if anyone wants to try it.

[stevedmc]

Btw, if you do choose to go with an Eagle Premier exhaust manifold you can find plenty of them on www.car-part.com.

I have found the parts inventory can be a little outdated but if you make a few phone calls you will find a set at a reasonable price. This is how I found my rim for my full size spare.

[content22207]

Looking at the pictures of the muffler mounts Bill, I'm curious- if you used a muffler that wasn't completely offset, but had the inlet in the middle and outlet on an end, could the mufflers be rotated so they didn't hang down either as much or at all?

Each owner can do whatever he or she wants.

In my case, the exhaust tubing is routed between the drive axle and the lower link. I use the mufflers themselves to raise the exhaust system back to the level of the rear fascia cutouts.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Bill,

How about an address for sending you the headliner boards. I still haven't gotten a PM from you. Did you get my address?

[Ashyukun]

$ 20 eBay Auction #130469878213 (2 ft stainless exhaust tubing, 2" OD)

I assume this is cut in half and used for the exhaust tips?

Are you re-using the flanges from the original exhaust to clamp the pipe nuts (in your pictures, the new flanged pipes in the parts list) to the manifolds?

And do you have handy the (presumably) McMaster-Carr link for the new nuts to use on the manifold-to-new-exhaust setup?

[stevedmc]

And do you have handy the (presumably) McMaster-Carr link for the new nuts to use on the manifold-to-new-exhaust setup?



I belive it is part # 94150A358. I already placed my part order with McMaster for the week. I'm going to order weather strip in the future and might order a box of these nuts if I can't find any locally in stainless. I might check Lowes. They seems to be better than Home Depot when it comes to metrix sizes.

[Ashyukun]

I belive it is part # 94150A358. I already placed my part order with McMaster for the week. I'm going to order weather strip in the future and might order a box of these nuts if I can't find any locally in stainless. I might check Lowes. They seems to be better than Home Depot when it comes to metrix sizes.
I've also found Lowes to have a broader selections of metal stock too, at least here. The Home Depot right next to my house didn't have any 1/8" x 3/4" aluminum bar stock to use for eyebrow bars, but the Lowes did. Also had the 3/4" x 1/2" C-channel stock I wanted for fixing my louvers...

[content22207]

I assume this is cut in half and used for the exhaust tips?

Are you re-using the flanges from the original exhaust to clamp the pipe nuts (in your pictures, the new flanged pipes in the parts list) to the manifolds?

And do you have handy the (presumably) McMaster-Carr link for the new nuts to use on the manifold-to-new-exhaust setup?

I cut the original retaining flanges off my crossover pipe and reused them. You could buy new ones from Jegs or Summit if you want to keep your crossover pipe intact.

Use the stub ends -- they're cheaper and easier than pipe nuts & nipples.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

I cut the original retaining flanges off my crossover pipe and reused them.

I was wondering how I would get those parts off the old crossover pipe. All I have is a stinking hack saw so its gonna be a tough day when I do the work.

[content22207]

Buy yourself an angle grinder and some cutoff wheels. I use cutoff wheels in my grinder more than I use grinding wheels. It's how I cut must of my metal (bolts & threaded rod, blocks of steel, sheet metal, etc).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ashyukun]

Angle Grinders are indeed nice... and dirt cheap from Harbor Freight when they're on sale (which is almost constantly).

I'll probably get new flanges- I'd prefer keeping all the original parts such that they could be put back on if necessary, and the flanges can't be that expensive...

[SamHill]

Buy one and slap a DMC sticker on it because it might be one of your most used tools. I particularly liked it for cutting off the old clamps on the coolant hoses.

[stevedmc]

I'll probably get new flanges- I'd prefer keeping all the original parts such that they could be put back on if necessary, and the flanges can't be that expensive...

Have you found a part number for matching flanges yet? It looks like my tubing won't be in until next week and I would love to save the old crossover and try to sell it.

[stevedmc]

Wow. I just checked the DMCH price for a NOS crossover pipe and it is about $300. This is convincing me even more to save the pipe and find flanges. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to order? If not I might just visit some local muffler shops next week to see if they have anything that would fit.

[content22207]

Just because Houston wants an arm & a leg for a part doesn't mean you will actually find someone willing to buy yours. It's just like these stupid K-Jet intake manifolds that Houston wants $600 for -- I have four of the damn things, and I can't give them away.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Just because Houston wants an arm & a leg for a part doesn't mean you will actually find someone willing to buy yours. It's just like these stupid K-Jet intake manifolds that Houston wants $600 for -- I have four of the damn things, and I can't give them away.

Bill Robertson
#5939

That is true. Another thing I was thinking is why on earth would someone want to buy my crossover pipe when they could do what I am doing or buy updated exhaust manifolds like what Hervey is selling.

[content22207]

The crossover pipe is not a high failure item. People may snap manifold studs off trying to remove it, but that does not damage the crossover pipe itself.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ashyukun]

I know that my auto parts store (an Autozone) has some flanges that look like they work, and doing a quick search I found this (http://www.amazon.com/Vibrant-1470S-Stainless-2-Bolt-Exhaust/dp/B001P25SC2), though it's a bit expensive but is stainless...

[content22207]

The hardest part of finding ready made flanges is stud to stud spacing (3 inches). Most 2 bolt flanges I've seen are 4 inches.

You might have best success simply making your own. 2" hole saws are a dime a dozen, and 3/8" holes will work fine for the 10mm manifold studs.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Bitsyncmaster]

Buy yourself an angle grinder and some cutoff wheels. I use cutoff wheels in my grinder more than I use grinding wheels. It's how I cut must of my metal (bolts & threaded rod, blocks of steel, sheet metal, etc).

Bill Robertson
#5939

For those that cut large stock often, I've found the best thing is to get a cheap bandsaw and buy some good bi-metal blades for it. I have a cheap 10" Sears band saw and ordered three blades on the Internet. I use that setup pretty often and it sure beets using a hacksaw. Only problem cutting large aluminum stock is the stock gets hot quickly so you need gloves to hold it.

[content22207]

Avoid small saw teeth (anything less than 2-4 TPI) for cutting drawn aluminum -- it will load them up within seconds, even with oil on the blade (cast aluminum is OK). I use a standard carbide tipped circular wood cutting blade in my chop saw (10 inch 40 tooth) to cut aluminum blocks for my intake manifolds. Eats through 2 inch thick aluminum very quickly. Throws chips absolutely everywhere.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Delorean Industries]

Just because Houston wants an arm & a leg for a part doesn't mean you will actually find someone willing to buy yours. It's just like these stupid K-Jet intake manifolds that Houston wants $600 for -- I have four of the damn things, and I can't give them away.

Bill Robertson
#5939

I want them.

[content22207]

What do you offer in trade?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

I want them.

Are you interested in the crossover pipe as well? Let me know before I cut the dang thing.


On another note, I was about to remove the crossover pipe today and start installing my Spec .01 exhaust but at the last minute I ended up going out on a hot date. There are some things more important than working on the stupid car. She liked the D even with stock exhaust.

[content22207]

Exhaust was immaterial -- it was fuel delivery that set her heart aflutter.
1519

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Farrar]

I want them.

You can buy my crossover pipe, if you also buy the catalytic converter, heat shields, and muffler... :D

Farrar

[stevedmc]

Its almost time to do the install. I've even got some diet cheer wine!

[stevedmc]

Bill,

Do you have any pictures showing how the muffler is mounted? I am guessing this is the correct part from Autozone but I just need a little help figuring out a good place to mount the thing.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/3A-Racing-Universal-tail-pipe-hanger/_/N-25vy?counter=0&itemIdentifier=59032_0_0_

[stevedmc]

I'm taking another AC break. The old exhaust is proving to be difficult to remove. Removing the crossover pipe from the exhaust manifolds was easy.

The problem is the crossover pipe is rusted to the catalytic converter. All four nuts snapped off when I turned them with a breaker bar. The next step is to use a grinder with a cutting disk to cut the section of the crossover pipe that connects to the catalytic converter.

Fortunately my dad has a welding mask and the grinder. I have separated the drive axle from the transmission and this should be pretty interesting once I start cutting.

[Ashyukun]

I'm taking another AC break. The old exhaust is proving to be difficult to remove. Removing the crossover pipe from the exhaust manifolds was easy.
You're doing a lot better than me- I broke one of the manifold-to-crossover studs. :banghead:

Somewhat alleviating how much I'm pissed at myself for this is the fact that in looking at it, it looks like would have been REALLY hard to use it even if I'd been able to split the nut off- the thread in a line along it (perpendicular to the threads) about 1/8 of the circumference is just GONE.

This makes things a lot more interesting for me, obviously... it means the regardless, I HAVE to pull that manifold off and replace it... but there's a lot of options in that.

First off, if I do it myself or drag the car (sans muffler, since I already took it off :P) to the nearby exhaust shop and have them pull the manifold and the rest of the exhaust. Then there's what I do about a replacement for the manifold... do I just pick up a used one and continue on as I'd planned? Pick up the Premier manifolds like I'd toyed with and see how I can make them work? Or damn the torpedoes and get Hervey's headers (his kit looks to use the same mufflers as I was planning on getting), since I'm already essentially ignoring budget at the moment...

[20098]

You can buy my crossover pipe, if you also buy the catalytic converter, heat shields, and muffler... :D

Farrar

Sorry to ask on this thread, but my "wanted" ad seems useless in attracting anything. I would be interested in the muffler heat shield if it were in good condition.

Please email me if you would like to make a deal. [email protected]

Thanks!

[content22207]

Do you have any pictures showing how the muffler is mounted?

Apologies for the delayed response -- I've been working on a school bus all afternoon (gasohol ruined a 3 year old fuel pump -- I replaced it with an electric pump, augmented with a dash mounted fuel pressure gauge).

Hangers mounted to the engine cradle are pretty straight forward (this is an old pic, before my el fake'o catalytic converters -- I didn't feel like pulling a wheel off in the dark):
1525

Hangers mounted to the rear frame have pins (cut off finishing nails) to hold them in position:
1526 1527 1528 1529 1530

Sheet metal screws are stainless of course.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[content22207]

I HAVE to pull that manifold off and replace it...

Not necessarily. On one of my trucks I had to torch the manifold studs off. After removing the manifold, I drilled and tapped it for stainless bolts.

(I'd snap a pic, but the truck is in DC).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[SamHill]

This makes things a lot more interesting for me, obviously... it means the regardless, I HAVE to pull that manifold off and replace it... ...

You could drill it out with a smaller bit and then a bigger bit. You don't try to rethread it. Then put a bolt with nut and a lock washer through the hole. You don't even have to take the manifold off the motor to do that.

[stevedmc]

Thanks so much for the pictures. Now I have a good idea of what mounts to buy as well.

Today was an interesting day and I guess you could say the work is nearly half done. My dad came over and helped me get the crossover pipe cut from the catalytic converter. He used a grinder and a welding mask to do the work. After it was cut everything slid out and we were able to cut the flanges from the crossover pipe.

The fittings I ordered from McMaster are just a little too thick for the rusted crossover flanges to go over them. I am going to leave the fittings in the freezer overnight to see if they shrink enough for the flanges to go over them. If they dont I will simply have to bust out a file to make it fit.

The second problem I have is the McMaster fitting has a lip that is too wide for the entire assemble to fit between the bolts on the exhaust manifold. My plan is to put the flange on the fitting and then use a drill to remove the metal that would otherwise keep the exhaust stud from going through.

Today has been a rough day but I am looking forward to working on this Monday and getting it finished up.

[SamHill]

The second problem I have is the McMaster fitting has a lip that is too wide for the entire assemble to fit between the bolts on the exhaust manifold. .

I remember that. I cut the lip on each side to make it fit.

[content22207]

Stainless steel is best shaped with a file. It's a very soft metal that stays soft as long as you don't temper it by heating it up with a tool (for example, drilling too fast or without enough oil). Believe it or not, I cut fuel filter brackets to length with an ordinary hack saw (no lubricant) -- cuts through 1/8" thick stainless like a knife through butter.

Use a rat tail file to make two notches for the manifold studs.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

The work is done minus installing tail pipes which I will do once my stainless pipe arrives. When I fired it up my dad immediately commented, "Now that sounds like power". I will admit the sound is louder than I am used to but a quick drive showed increased performance. I think I can get used to this.

[content22207]

1664

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

1664

Bill Robertson
#5939

Why on earth would anyone want or need power steering? All of the weight is in the rear of the car.

[content22207]

I keep forgetting you're a young whipper snapper. We'll revisit the topic in another 10 years when you've hit middle age.

Have you tallied the total material cost of your exhaust?

And what did your Dad think of Cheerwine?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[thegovernor9912]

The work is done minus installing tail pipes which I will do once my stainless pipe arrives. When I fired it up my dad immediately commented, "Now that sounds like power". I will admit the sound is louder than I am used to but a quick drive showed increased performance. I think I can get used to this.

When I convert to the Robertson exhaust I am thinking of doing it with either

http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=main&id=9000

or

http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=main&id=9096

I wonder how that would look in the same space. I think it would sound even more aggressive though

[thegovernor9912]

After a little research, Magnflow mufflers marked "MagnaPacks" are louder than ones marked "MagnaFlow"


Bill- how 'bout a belt driven supercharger instead of power steering?

[content22207]

If I'm not mistaken, Sam used glass packs (same basic shape as those Magnaflow mufflers). He needs to post some pics so we can see how he arranged them. If you look carefully at Steve's pics, you will see he used the mufflers themselves to raise his exhaust stream to the cutouts in the rear fascia. He couldn't have done that with glass packs (at least not with the flex tubing passing between the lower links and the drive axles).

There might be enough room to mount the glass packs next to the engine cradle, then make an S bend with flex tubing upwards to the rear of the car.

Or the glass packs could be mounted at 45 degree angles upward.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Have you tallied the total material cost of your exhaust?

And what did your Dad think of Cheerwine?

Bill Robertson
#5939

I haven't totaled everything up but I think I spent about $300 for everything.

I offered Dad some Cheerwine but he chose to be a nice guy and let me finish off the bottle. That stuff goes fast on a hot day.

[content22207]

Bill- how 'bout a belt driven supercharger instead of power steering?

Just stick a Mustang spec 2 barrel carburetor on the engine. Combined with free flowing dual exhaust, it does change the character of the car (for the better).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[SamHill]

If I'm not mistaken, Sam used glass packs (same basic shape as those Magnaflow mufflers). He needs to post some pics so we can see how he arranged them.

Nope. Sam used Kraut packs.

1775

[content22207]

Image lightened and enlarged slightly:
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Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Today I finished up the job by installing tail pipes. My stainless pipe still hasn't arrived (I ordered it on the 20th) so I went down to Autozone and picked up some chrome tail pipes for about $20.

I must say I am very pleased with the result. At first I was a little upset about the loud noise but once I installed tail pipes the noise significantly dropped. I must say I love the Magnaflow sound. It is awesome and I can feel a huge increase in performance.

Here are some new pictures. Before I installed the tail pipes I installed an excellent sound deadener in the cargo area as well.

[Farrar]

Bill- how 'bout a belt driven supercharger instead of power steering?

Or another alternator. ;)

Farrar

[thegovernor9912]

I see what you did there....

[stevedmc]

I see what you did there....

Who shot who in the what now?

[content22207]

Do you realize how much easier your engine swap would have been with this exhaust? Simply unbolt the flex pipes from the manifolds and swing them out of the way, then bring them back after the new engine is in place.

I want to see Steve rotate his engine with a socket wrench on the crankshaft pulley, like a normal person (makes adjusting the valves much easier).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

Do you realize how much easier your engine swap would have been with this exhaust? Simply unbolt the flex pipes from the manifolds and swing them out of the way.

I was telling myself the same thing when we were doing the swap. What sucked even more is after putting things back together we realized the crankshaft pulley was loose. It was my mechanics fault and he had to take the exhaust out and put it back in just to tighten a bolt.

I love the new setup.

[Farrar]

Steve, did you have to cut into the fiberglass like Bill did?

Farrar

[stevedmc]

Nope

[thegovernor9912]

THe amount of sound the new magnaflows make will become quieter after a break in period. I put magnaflows on my SHO and it was much louder right after they were installed. What did you use for flanges?


Bill, I ordered all the stuff today, so you have another convert. I am using small glasspacks though, so it maybe louder than the original BR SPEC 0.1 system.

Are you going to the Fun Run?

[stevedmc]

Today I went and had my state inspection done. As expected, the Spec .01 exhaust system passed inspection.

[SamHill]

Today I went and had my state inspection done. As expected, the Spec .01 exhaust system passed inspection.


Has a Bill nexus. Therefore, still evil.

[Trstno1]

Is there any place in this setup for an O2 sensor to be installed?

[Josh]

lol. Go to dmctoday if you want to get into contact with bill.

He doesnt have a provision for an 02 sensor as he runs a carb.

This is a interesting alternative exhaust, and i am routing mine similar but a little less redneck-ish. He uses alot of flexible pipe which honestly should not be used at all. Also the plethora of exhaust clamps...

[Trstno1]

lol. Go to dmctoday if you want to get into contact with bill.

He doesnt have a provision for an 02 sensor as he runs a carb.

This is a interesting alternative exhaust, and i am routing mine similar but a little less redneck-ish. He uses alot of flexible pipe which honestly should not be used at all. Also the plethora of exhaust clamps...

Just thinking about a cheap system that will get me through till I can afford what I really want. What are you doing?

[Josh]

Just thinking about a cheap system that will get me through till I can afford what I really want. What are you doing?

It will be a 2.5" j-pipe (cut and welded according) with glass packs. Wouldn't really recommend that muffler on a PRV tho!

here is a picture of the infamous de-lotus... my setup will be very similar.

33103

[Trstno1]

It will be a 2.5" j-pipe (cut and welded according) with glass packs. Wouldn't really recommend that muffler on a PRV tho!

here is a picture of the infamous de-lotus... my setup will be very similar.

33103

What sort of exhaust manifolds are on that? Looks great! Though I think I'm looking for something that sounds good, But I don't want a super loud setup. I wish there were more affordable setups for our cars! What is your system going to put you back? (If you don't mind me asking)

[SamHill]

He uses alot of flexible pipe which honestly should not be used at all.

Why not? The flex pipe is the part after 5 years that has held up very well. The hangers I bought have been rusting, but the flex pipe has been fine.

[Josh]

Why not? The flex pipe is the part after 5 years that has held up very well. The hangers I bought have been rusting, but the flex pipe has been fine.

look at the pictures. it runs very close to the coolant hose as well as drive axles. Being flexable it can move and sway and possibly come into contact with these items. The only reason why it was used is it is quicker than taking the time to properly cut up and weld some elbows together.

**waits for thread on dmctoday to be posted bashing me**

[SamHill]

look at the pictures. it runs very close to the coolant hose as well as drive axles. Being flexable it can move and sway and possibly come into contact with these items. The only reason why it was used is it is quicker than taking the time to properly cut up and weld some elbows together.

**waits for thread on dmctoday to be posted bashing me**

No bashing. Yes, it flexes. That is what it is designed to do. You may have noticed that the entire car does. Proximity to drive axles or any hoses has yet to cause any problem at all. I should know after 5 years.

[Josh]

Well if it works for you it works. To me its just a lazy and improper way of making an exhaust.

[SamHill]

Well if it works for you it works. To me its just a lazy and improper way of making an exhaust.

Your personal objection is noted for the record.

[opethmike]

Sam smells like unicorn farts.

[SamHill]

Sam smells like unicorn farts.

Good middle line in a Haiku.

[opethmike]

Haku? Like the 80's wrestler?

[Farrar]

Bill's homemade exhaust may not look great, but it works, and I can kind of see where he is coming from. What was this, eleven or twelve years ago? He put something together that worked, at a time when he didn't have any welding equipment or access to a shop where they could weld something up for him. And in his area, DeLoreans had not aged out of emissions requirements, so if he didn't do everything himself he would have had to find a shop willing to make an exhaust for him without cats, and not report him as streeting a non-streetable car. Now, years later, he has lots of other projects to deal with, and I can certainly see him not wanting to bother with something that works for him. He even made metal collars to protect his coolant hoses from the flex tubing. Bill's methods may be unorthodox, but they are thorough.

Bill has recommended that I do my DIY exhaust "the right way," by purchasing mandrel bends and a 110v MIG welder and welding them up myself. I noticed that McMaster now includes a note that their ordinary stainless steel flex tubing should not be used where 100% leakproof routing is needed; instead, they have stainless flex tubing which is pressure-rated at 25 PSI, available by special order and more expensive. With the higher price of the new tubing, purchasing mandrel bends and welding something up seems more cost-effective. But 12 years ago, under a deadline, who knows? I might have done the same as Bill. (I won't, for various reasons, but this is not the thread for that.)

[Trstno1]

I for one commend Bill on his DIY exhaust. It may not be pretty, but it is functional, and nobody can argue against that. The fact is that the new cost for the exhaust systems for our cars are through the roof when they really shouldn't be. People can say they are expensive due to the R&D that was put forth to create them. But since these systems have been around for awhile I don't really buy it. The simple truth is that the current exhaust systems that are for sale in our community are high profit margin parts for our vendors. unfortunately, the cost of those systems will never really go down because there will always be people who are willing to pay the exorbanent prices the vendors set. It's a simple rule of supply and demand. Take away the demand, the price will plummet. If people keep buying them, the vendors think the price is reasonable to their customers and will keep the price the same all the while laughing all the way to the bank.

I just keep thinking that Bill created a system that is literally 1/7th the cost of other systems, and that alone makes it awesome, and he really should get credit for that. I wonder if people would receive it better if he packaged his kit and sold it to people for a couple hundred under Hervey's price? Is it exactly what I want to install on my baby?....not really. However I just might while I save for what I really want. I refuse to have my car collecting dust in the garage because I can't afford to drop $2K on an exhaust system. $2K buys a lot of new interior or other refurb parts for that matter.

Ok.....rant over......sorry for yelling.....I definately did not intend to step on any toes here. You guys have truly been paramount in my restorations success thus far, and for that I appreciate you. I guess I'm just upset that money doesn't grow on trees as I really want one of those pretty exhaust setups from DPI. :(

[Rich_NYS]

Bill's homemade exhaust may not look great, but it works, and I can kind of see where he is coming from. What was this, eleven or twelve years ago? He put something together that worked, at a time when he didn't have any welding equipment or access to a shop where they could weld something up for him. And in his area, DeLoreans had not aged out of emissions requirements, so if he didn't do everything himself he would have had to find a shop willing to make an exhaust for him without cats, and not report him as streeting a non-streetable car. Now, years later, he has lots of other projects to deal with, and I can certainly see him not wanting to bother with something that works for him. He even made metal collars to protect his coolant hoses from the flex tubing. Bill's methods may be unorthodox, but they are thorough.

Bill has recommended that I do my DIY exhaust "the right way," by purchasing mandrel bends and a 110v MIG welder and welding them up myself. I noticed that McMaster now includes a note that their ordinary stainless steel flex tubing should not be used where 100% leakproof routing is needed; instead, they have stainless flex tubing which is pressure-rated at 25 PSI, available by special order and more expensive. With the higher price of the new tubing, purchasing mandrel bends and welding something up seems more cost-effective. But 12 years ago, under a deadline, who knows? I might have done the same as Bill. (I won't, for various reasons, but this is not the thread for that.)

+1


I for one commend Bill on his DIY exhaust. It may not be pretty, but it is functional, and nobody can argue against that. The fact is that the new cost for the exhaust systems for our cars are through the roof when they really shouldn't be. People can say they are expensive due to the R&D that was put forth to create them. But since these systems have been around for awhile I don't really buy it. The simple truth is that the current exhaust systems that are for sale in our community are high profit margin parts for our vendors. unfortunately, the cost of those systems will never really go down because there will always be people who are willing to pay the exorbanent prices the vendors set. It's a simple rule of supply and demand. Take away the demand, the price will plummet. If people keep buying them, the vendors think the price is reasonable to their customers and will keep the price the same all the while laughing all the way to the bank.

I just keep thinking that Bill created a system that is literally 1/7th the cost of other systems, and that alone makes it awesome, and he really should get credit for that. I wonder if people would receive it better if he packaged his kit and sold it to people for a couple hundred under Hervey's price? Is it exactly what I want to install on my baby?....not really. However I just might while I save for what I really want. I refuse to have my car collecting dust in the garage because I can't afford to drop $2K on an exhaust system. $2K buys a lot of new interior or other refurb parts for that matter.
(

+1

Different strokes for different folks. Everyone has their own goals & should do what suits their particular tastes, needs, motivations, and economic situation. I sure don't like the appearance of flex-tubing, but I don't understand the Bill-bashing. Personally, I like that this community has so many different types of engineers; to name a few, I constantly admire what Bill, Josh from Canada, Pat C, Nick and Bill have done. I hope there will always be guys like that around to inspire me.

[Rich_NYS]

Dammit, it sucks not to be able to edit posts....please excuse the typos, mentioning Bill's name twice, and maybe too much koombaiya (I really ain't that groovy.)


Also, I want to double-down on what a great point this is:



I refuse to have my car collecting dust in the garage because I can't afford to drop $2K on an exhaust system.

[DrJeff]

You may be misapplying supply demand curves. Supply demand curves are rarely linear throughout their range. Lowering demand does not lower price unless the supply remains the same. And even then, there is a point at which lower demand will not solicit a price reduction (unless you're the last buyer ever and carry costs are high).

Also with low volume items some costs, such as inventory carry costs, can become a large proportion of the total price. These non-item costs are usually small for items made in large quantities, much larger quantities than any Delorean item could be. That's the premium you pay the vendor for having a seldom bought item available. Things would be cheaper if ever done you called the vendor they said you'll have to wait six months for the next run, I'll add you to the list.

Jeff