Possible New Owner - Nervous.....!!

[LordeRyall]

First of all, a big thanks to everyone for their contribution to this forum. A great reference tool for people like myself who are considering diving in at the deep end as well as providing me confidence that if/when I become an owner, the support exists.

Background: Contemplating purchasing the only DeLorean (Aug 81 - 2889) here in Singapore. It is a complete restoration job by DMC Texas and in fantastic shape. The effort and $$ spent by the previous owner is there for all to see. If it wasn't for the fact that this is the only one in town (and thus there is no on the ground support) I would have already jumped in. I am however treading very carefully to ensure that the car is mechanically in as good an order as possible to limit the tears further down the line!

If I may use your combined expertise for opinion, I test drove it at the weekend and have the following concerns:

- Handling: Even at 50 mph the handling was a bit suspect. Driving in a straight line on smooth roads still brought on some lateral movement. I of course don't expect it to handle like a modern car but this still seemed a tad unusual. It could be a simple matter of tyre pressures (I didn't check them prior to the test drive but have the dealer checking them today prior to another drive) but my concern is that it maybe more of a chassis/frame issue?
- Steering: Full lock brought on tyre rubbing on inside wheel arches/structure.
- Braking: The brake pedal had very long travel and was very spongey. The car did of course stop but gave me little confidence for any 'emergency' manoeveur.
- Electrics: All worked perfectly until 15 mins into the drive when the battery light came on and the tacho stayed static at 1500 rpm. Prior to that the tacho was flickery in the 4000-5000 rpm range. However after the test drive we turned the car off and on again, and everything was back to normal. Alternator issues?

On the plus side, the transmission and engine were seemingly in fantastic shape (as they should be as they were new 2 years ago) and cosmetically the car is in virtually concours condition inside and out. This extensive rebuild two years ago also gives me confidence.

My concerns could all be minor points and simple fixes and I am naturally having an independent inspection done. However given that you guys have real experience with the DeLorean, then prior to parting with my hard-earned $$ I just wanted to run it by you guys in case anything hinted at major issues.

All assistance/views are very much appreciated and I thank you in advance.

[dvonk]

ah yes, i remember 02889 from when the PO posted it for sale on the old forum in 2008. an auto with RHD conversion... does it still have the custom brown leather seats and headliners?

if it is still in the same condition, it is a nice looking D. i hope it ends up being exactly what youre looking for. :smile:

[Kenny_Z]

I bet in Singapore a Delorean gets even more attention. If I remember right I spoke to a guy online a few years ago who had one of the only 66 Chevy Novas in Singapore. It was a beautiful machine when he finished the restoration and got a lot of attention. On to the issues you asked about.

The car may just need an alignment. Mine got very hard to handle above 40 after I changed out tie rod ends and drove her to the alignment shop. Without cosmetic issues and from what you gave on the history I don't think the car was abused to the point of frame damage. I assume you looked for rust on the suspension components?

The brakes may need to be bled. It's annoying to get to the master but I'd check the fluid and make sure it isn't discolored. Bleeding brakes on a Delorean is the same as any other car so it isn't a major undertaking.

I don't want to steer you wrong on the other two issues as I don't have experience with the lock to lock rubbing or the alternator problem you described. Hopefully others will chime in.

[outatym2001]

Oh, I was wondering what happened to that DeLorean in Singapore. The previous owner posted many times to the old dmctalk.com forum and that old forum went offline one day.

The issue with driving and feeling of lateral movement tells me something is not correct with the alignment. The DeLorean Owner's Handbook in the glove box should read on page 40.
Tyre Pressures
Normal Driving
Front 23 lbf/in2 1.6 Kgf/cm2 1.5 bars.
Rear 30 lbf/in2 2.1 Kgf/cm2 2.0 bars.

I don't know what measurement you use in Singapore for the pressure in your tires but here in the United States we use psi (pound per square inch) rather than lbf/in2 because it is easier to remember.

Are all four tires wearing evenly across the tread? If not then something is out of alignment.

Steering full lock should not allow the tire to rub on anything including the anti-roll bar and the stainless steel body panels. The DeLorean Owner's Handbook does not mention that the Front Tire should be 195 60/R14 and the Rear Tire 235 60/R15. We are having some difficulty in finding matching sets so some people put on a Rear Tire that is 225 60/R15.

Your braking problems tells me the D needs a new Brake Master Cylinder. The DOT 4 brake fluid is getting passed the seals internally.

Your electrical issue. Well, I'm really dumb when it comes to diagnosing electrical problems so I don't know. When the automatic transmission is in Neutral or Park then Tachometer should read 775 rpm.

I can't really give anymore advice unless I know how old are the tires, how old is the brake fluid, how old is battery, how old is the alternator, how old are the spark plugs, how old are the spark plug wires, how long ago was the Air Conditioning serviced, how old is everything. Is there any service records showing you how long ago things were replaced? If you can't do something as simple as changing the air filter then you are in for a world of hurt since you will be paying other people to learn how to work on a 31 year old car.
Good luck I hope you get to Live The Dream but be careful if you lack mechanical skills or a place to work on it.

[LordeRyall]

Thanks for the prompt feedback guys.

dvonk: The car has been completely revamped since 2008. The full restoration occured late 2009 and was changed (back?) to black interior and is pretty much immaculate.

Kenny_Z: Thanks for the heads up on the alignment/brake fluid etc. I'll certainly mention it to the mechanics doing the inspection.

outatym2001: You touch on some valid points especially the fact that I will in essence be paying other people to learn how to service and maintain the DeLorean. I trust a couple of guys here but still, I'll be shipping in parts from the US and paying the mechanics for their time with a workshop manual in front of them. I am prepared for that but prepared or not, it will still be a pain but that is also part of the fun! Whilst I am experienced with cars and driving in general the fact that I am not mechanically minded is certainly a worry.

The tires are like new but I think this is due to the fact that the PO simply doesn't use the car much. It certainly gets turned over and driven a few times a month but this actually makes finding clues to problems more difficult as they won't be as well established.

I have been informed that the car has been serviced regularly (at least once a year for sure) and the base case behind this, is that everything was pretty much new at the overhaul late 2009. DMC Texas did the full upgrade on air-con, transmission, engine, RHD conversion, fuel system, electrical - you name it, they seem to have done it!

Thanks for the heads up about the master cylinder (although this too was changed late 2009) as again, it gives me a good direction to steer the guys that are doing the cars inspection.


All other feedback is much appreciated and I'll let you know how the inspection and therefore my decision goes.

[WelmoedJ]

On tire pressure Mark gave you the minimum details.
Not to flame Mark, but there's more, to tire pressure.
The figures Mark supplied are for whan the owner's manual calls "Normal" driving.

Of course both of us are not familar with the roads, conditions and laws in Singapore, but at least you ought to be aware of the other pressures:
The pressures for what the manual calls "Continuous High Speed Driving" are
front: 29lbf/in2 2.0 Kgf/cm2 2.0 Bar
rear: 34 lbf/in2 2.3 Kgf/cm2 2.3 Bar

Consider that High Speed driving mainly is done on hiways.
Also consider that the D has a habit of breaking out when making turns at higher speeds (60/40 weight distribution rear/front).
This especially can happen with tires with low pressure and is noticed more on wet than on dry roads.
I myself have found to car behaves better when using the high speed pressures, even when you are not driving "sportly".
The turnside of the higher pressure coin is that you may notice uneven parts of the road abit more.

A car that may have not been driven in a couple of year, may also not have been serviced in these years.
Best is to drain and refill the brake system and if it's a manual, also the clutch system.
As said by others, if the brake pedal feeling is not firm, you may have a leaky system (seals).
As the main brake cilinder is "plain" metal, the wall of the cilinder may have gotten rust pits and need to be replaced.
Also have the calipers checked for frozen pistons.
Brake and manual clutch fluid is the same: DOT4.

On the electrical part: Old cars have often a weaker system than new cars. A rebuild car most likely has been rebuild with NOS parts.
Your problem could be contacts, bad or corroded connections (you live in a humid area if I'm correct).
As you noticed the problem with the battery light, you may want to look if the connections at the generator are solid and clean.
Check the grounds as bad grounds cause the majority of electrical problems (goes for almost all cars, not only DeLorean).
If the connections are OK and you do not have an original Ducellier or Motorola generator, the problem could be in either the wiring to the instruments panel, the instruments panel printed circuit or both.
It also could be that the battery lamp has a bad connection to the printed circuit and gets fed by power from another source (plug-to-printed-circuit sometimes is not matching if the copper traces detach from the "board" which is a plastic sheet).

Check what happens with the Voltmeter. If the meter shows a stable +13 Volt and doesn't move below 13 when turning on A/C, lights, wipers (or all) then most of the system seems to be in acceptable shape. E.g., if the main light get faint a bit when using the wipers and the meter drops below 13, that's not good. Most often a ground issue, sometimes a generator on the way out.

If the wheels are not aligned properly and/or the tire size is over the standard size, or the front has been lowered, ball joints or bushing are on their way out, you may notice the rubbing.
That also can happen if the lower control arm(s, LCA) is not in the proper position (accident?).
Don't start assuming the worst, just start checking if there's play or misalignment.

Hope this helps.

[jerzybondov]

One point on the handling and the lock to lock wheel rubbing: who did the RHD conversion?

Iffy (vague) handling can also be caused by worn bushes (LCA upper and lower, ARB), wear on the universal steering joint, and wear on the rack. I have sorted all of these in turn on my car, and each time I've noticed a significant improvement (from what was originally a very scary car to drive above 60mph).

[LordeRyall]

WelmoedJ: Appreciate the high speed pressure tip. I have no issues sacrificing some comfort for handling. Thanks also for the rest of the pointers, I'll be adding it to the ammunition of info for the garage doing the inspection.

jerzybondov: To the best of my knowledge, the original RHD conversion was a bit of a 'string and cable-tie' job by all accounts. However DMC Texas essentially threw it away and started again from scratch during their full ground-up refurb. That is why I'm pretty sure any issues with handling are likely to be minor (and hopefully relatively easy fixes). Thanks for your pointers as well, between all you guys the mechanic has a virtual cheat sheet already!

Inspection has been arranged later today so I'll keep you all posted.......

[LordeRyall]

Inspection report back but it has occurred to me that an etiquette breach is possible with the fact that I would be disclosing publicly about a car that is not currently mine. I can absolutely say with confidence that the car is in superb overall condition but there are one or two minor issues.

Am not sure what the general view is on this but I may choose to share my findings privately with the guys who have responded so far on this thread so I can further assess the risks that I maybe taking.

I have to admit that if I was in a place that had accessible mechanical support (US, Europe, Oz?) I would be far less cautious about the purchase but I have to give serious consideration to the fact that even the most minor technical issues are going to be a major hurdle in Singapore. (In fairness I blame myself for being a mechanical numpty as much as I blame Singapore for being small).

Anyway lets see how this develops - just wanted to keep you all up-to-date as promised.

[jerzybondov]

The UK has the highest number of RHD conversions kicking about, and not all of them are brilliant. Even the Wooler-Hodec cars have issues. My suspicion would be that the tyre rub might be something to do with the way the RHD rack has been installed on this particular car - and it's turning more one way than the other. There's more than one RHD car in the UK which has this problem.