White Trapezoid Plug with U-Y & U-B Wires ID?

[Ron]

I'm working on a harness that was modified for a turbo which has a small white trapezoid plug with Blue-Yellow & Blue-Black wires. The Blue-Yellow goes to the starter and right back into the harness the Blue-Black runs a foot or so and is snipped off. The plug itself is just like the one for the Thermal Time Switch, Vacuum Solenoid, and the Reverse light Switch pigtail. I have a stock donor harness but it has the same plug with Black-Blue wire snipped off???

Any clues appreciated.

[jawn101]

I'm working on a harness that was modified for a turbo which has a small white trapezoid plug with Blue-Yellow & Blue-Black wires. The Blue-Yellow goes to the starter and right back into the harness the Blue-Black runs a foot or so and is snipped off. The plug itself is just like the one for the Thermal Time Switch, Vacuum Solenoid, and the Reverse light Switch pigtail. I have a stock donor harness but it has the same plug with Black-Blue wire snipped off???

Any clues appreciated.

Ha! That is the thermotime switch. Check my cold start thread here - the diagrams all seem to say it should be W/R and U/B but it appears that in reality it's U/B and U/Y.

[jawn101]

The blue/black should apparently go to the cold start valve, by the way :)

[Ron]

Ugg...The harness I'm working on, the donor harness, and my D all have W-R & U-B wires for the Thermal Time Switch as shown in the manual schematic. I double checked that the W-R does tie into the Cold Start Valve on its way to the Hot Start Relay Socket as shown in the manual schematic on all three harnesses. I can see using R-W would work the same (assuming the added load would be ok) but the mystery plug's U-Y wire runs to the starter as shown in your pic (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?4817-Issues-with-cold-start&p=69653&viewfull=1#post69653) (except the junction is factory on all three harnesses) and back to the Blue Bulkhead Connector (comes back to Yellow Bulkhead Connector to feed Ignition Bypass Relay IIRC). So it can't be the TTS on these..

In any event, I have at least two harnesses, one of which is stock, with an "extra" plug shaped like a TTS plug ???:Headspin:

[DMC5180]

Ron,

It would help if could post a Pic or two.

I Have the original harness from my car (replaced w late style)

In that harness the (TTS plug is U/B and B/Y ) (Cold start is U/B and W/R) The factory Connection (bullet type) by the starter is Double (U/Y) wires, one goes to the Ignition By-pass relay via (Blue bulkhead connector) the other to the TTS. I confirmed all of these with a continuity test.

[jawn101]

Hey Ron, you don't happen to see where the U/Y from the mystery plug goes into the harness, do you? Wondering where/if/at what point it joins the R/W wires.

[Ron]

Dennis: I'll get a pic in a few... Doubt it will help unless it is a auto v/s manual thing...but my head is smoking so BRB lol


Jon: they are not supposed to be connected, except when the starter solenoid is engaged. And that is only because the plunger disk in the solenoid connects the starter motor and the battery together, which is where the R-W wire is eventually connected to on it's other end...just like anything that has power going to it, so to speak.

See your thread for post on overall operation....

[Ron]

Again, although not butchered and rerouted, my donor harness is the same way.

12630

[DMC5180]

Dennis: I'll get a pic in a few... Doubt it will help unless it is a auto v/s manual thing...but my head is smoking so BRB lol

Like this :t2:LOL

Well, buggers I see your photo but you chopped of the part of the harness that could give us a clue. (Where it ties into the bundle). I wonder if it might have been a Borrowed Pigtail repair for the missing vacuum solenoid connector.

[Ron]

lol...if I charged $5.00 on this POS harness I could of bought him 3 by now...just hate to butcher a new one combined with being a a die hard I guess :angry0::hihi2:

[jawn101]

So weird. You also have a black plug for the CSV, was that a modification?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Ron,

It would help if could post a Pic or two.

I Have the original harness from my car (replaced w late style)

In that harness the (TTS plug is U/B and B/Y ) (Cold start is U/B and W/R) The factory Connection (bullet type) by the starter is Double (U/Y) wires, one goes to the Ignition By-pass relay via (Blue bulkhead connector) the other to the TTS. I confirmed all of these with a continuity test.

Here is a photo of my TTS plug. So as you can see the colors do not match the schematic.

[DMC5180]

Ron,

Just looking at your TTS plug, you have 3 wires. Obviously a modification done here. The one thing that sticks out here aside from the Red Splice connector. Is the W/R wire. I've never seen wires with spiral traces in the factory harness. They all have parallel marking.

[jawn101]

Here is a photo of my TTS plug. So as you can see the colors do not match the schematic.

That's exactly what my TTS plug looks like as well

[DMC5180]

Ron,

Just looking at your TTS plug, you have 3 wires. Obviously a modification done here. The one thing that sticks out here aside from the Red Splice connector. Is the W/R wire. I've never seen wires with spiral traces in the factory harness. They all have parallel marking.


I did a little investigating on my spare harness. The W/R with spiral trace is factory. It runs between the White bulkhead connector (doubled W/R wires) to the CSV connector. The wire from the CSV to TTS is U/B

[Ron]

So weird. You also have a black plug for the CSV, was that a modification?
No it's black on outside blue inside...it was in a fire some time in its past.


Here is a photo of my TTS plug. So as you can see the colors do not match the schematic.
I have one of those too but it does not ring out with the CSV as it should if it were the TTS???


Ron,

Just looking at your TTS plug, you have 3 wires. Obviously a modification done here. The one thing that sticks out here aside from the Red Splice connector. Is the W/R wire. I've never seen wires with spiral traces in the factory harness. They all have parallel marking.
The 3 wires are electrically correct: 1 U-B factory, tied to 1 U-B (I added) to feed existing U-B on CSV that was burnt, and 1 W-R spiral that PO? used to replaced the original W-R(s).

FWIW- I have traced out the harness 100% several times and it is true to the schematic, except this one plug. I originally thought it was the Vac Sol plug since it looks just like it, but when I dry ran assembly ( to avoid a host of four letter words ;-), I came across the two in the pic with a missing plug, which I thought they must of abandoned it due to re-routing for the turbo, but they were original.

Thing is, as I said above, my donor has the same "extra" plug snipped in the same place up the harness. I'd mark it as coincidence but the donor AND my D have the TTS colors matching the schematic.

I guess I'm going to splice a few feet of wire on the stray U-B wire an go for it and fix anything that don't work later -- Worse part is I'm just using it to check out an engine with no history except that it has been sitting for a couple of years....

[Ron]

I did a little investigating on my spare harness. The W/R with spiral trace is factory. It runs between the White bulkhead connector (doubled W/R wires) to the CSV connector. The wire from the CSV to TTS is U/BYep..it's all factory per schematic (except this one...maybe..lol).

[jawn101]

Stop it, Ron... you've got me thinking I need to go take my whole harness out of the engine because I've hooked your 'mystery plug' to my TTS instead of the right one, which is buried somewhere.... ;)

[Ron]

Stop it, Ron... you've got me thinking I need to go take my whole harness out of the engine because I've hooked your 'mystery plug' to my TTS instead of the right one, which is buried somewhere.... ;)
:lol:
My D harness is factory and matches the schematic so if I'm not stupid enough to go find a spare plug on it, the smoke coming out of my head will not turn to flames, and it is always good to have three "extra" TTS style plugs. So I'm going to quit while I'm ahead and enjoy the rest of the day off...

[DMC5180]

Well, Here is a good one.

I've been comparing my early style Engine harness with the late style one. Guess what?

EARLY Style (TTS) wires at plug U/B and B/Y The W/R spiral trace in the CSV plug comes from paired W/R wires at the White Bulkhead connector in front corner.

LATE Style (TTS) wires at plug U/B and W/R The W/R is not Spiral traced in the CSV or TTS and is spliced within the harness wrap (only one W/R from White Bulkhead connector.

[jawn101]

Well, Here is a good one.

I've been comparing my early style Engine harness with the late style one. Guess what?

EARLY Style (TTS) wires at plug U/B and B/Y The W/R spiral trace in the CSV plug comes from paired W/R wires at the White Bulkhead connector in front corner.

LATE Style (TTS) wires at plug U/B and W/R The W/R is not Spiral traced in the CSV or TTS and is spliced within the harness wrap (only one W/R from White Bulkhead connector.

Interesting. My car usually counts as "early", I wonder if Dave M's does too. Explains a few things, thanks for checking Dennis

[Ron]

GREAT! So I hav two harnesses (neither on my D thank God) both of which have been altered to have both early and late plugs...figures.........now that I think about it, the donor was off of a turbo too FWIW.


THANKS!!!

[jawn101]

GREAT! So I hav two harnesses (neither on my D thank God) both of which have been altered to have both early and late plugs...figures.........now that I think about it, the donor was off of a turbo too FWIW.


THANKS!!!

Go team :) Now the curiosity question - why would someone do that?

[Ron]

Interesting. My car usually counts as "early", I wonder if Dave M's does too. Explains a few things, thanks for checking Dennis I know mine D does.

All starting to click now...but first, Dennis, can you see if one harness has two wires at the Vacume Solenoid and the other three?

[Ron]

Go team :) Now the curiosity question - why would someone do that?Because, like I said before, you can use the U/Y or W/R to trigger with. I guess, in my case, because of the physical location of the wires when re-routing for a turbo. I thought it was the VAC SOL when I saw the plug and U/B wire thinking it was its B/U wire (idiots) until I saw a U/Y wire instead of a Green one.....

I won't do it in the future given the choice, just to keep the load off of the ingnition side...um...welll it only matters while cranking...I think...I'll worry about the another day LOL

[DMC5180]

GREAT! So I hav two harnesses (neither on my D thank God) both of which have been altered to have both early and late plugs...figures.........now that I think about it, the donor was off of a turbo too FWIW.


THANKS!!!

Were they both Island turbo setups?

[DMC5180]

I know mine D does.

All starting to click now...but first, Dennis, can you see if one harness has two wires at the Vacume Solenoid and the other three?

EARLY STYLE 2 wires BLK/Blue and Green

LATE STYLE 3 wires RED/BLACK (paired) and green

[Ron]

Were they both Island turbo setups?
The donor had a BAE.I'm certain because I pulled it off when the engine blew. I assume this one is BAE also but not sure as the harness and pieces of it were in the back seat when it got here:

Pic in funny stuff thread (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?315-The-Official-quot-Funny-Stuff!-You-Have-to-See-This!-quot-Thread&p=67513&viewfull=1#post67513)


EARLY STYLE 2 wires BLK/Blue and Green

LATE STYLE 3 wires RED/BLACK (paired) and green

That's what I thought! ...I can sleep tonight.

THX Again!

[DMC5180]

The donor had a BAE.I'm certain because I pulled it off when the engine blew. I assume this one is BAE also but not sure as the harness and pieces of it were in the back seat when it got here:

Pic in funny stuff thread (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?315-The-Official-quot-Funny-Stuff!-You-Have-to-See-This!-quot-Thread&p=67513&viewfull=1#post67513)



That's what I thought! ...I can sleep tonight.

THX Again!

WOW what a pile of crap. Did you unwrap the BLUE harness tape to see where the connector was spliced in?

[Ron]

WOW what a pile of crap. Did you unwrap the BLUE harness tape to see where the connector was spliced in?No that shit must be epoxy tape... I stripped the black tape back as far as the fire damage and repaired it. Took me about an hour...spent another hour with a helper ringing every bulkhead connector to its proper plug(s) per the schematic and, as said, it was 100% except the mystery plug and I could have bought him several with the time invested figuring it out before putting the top back on the engine...win some loose a few, eh?:)

EDIT2:The snipped U/B wire does not tie to anything else for sure, and as said the, the U/Y goes to the factory junction at the starter, but I don't know what joint/mod may be involved with it...but I'm not going to use the plug and if the rest proves itself I will strongly suggest he purchase a new harness just for SOP.

[DMC5180]

No that shit must be epoxy tape... I stripped the black tape back as far as the fire damage and repaired it. Took me about an hour...spent another hour with a helper ringing every bulkhead connector to its proper plug(s) per the schematic and, as said, it was 100% except the mystery plug and I could have bought him several with the time invested figuring it out before putting the top back on the engine...win some loose a few, eh?:)

EDIT2:The snipped U/B wire does not tie to anything else for sure, and as said the, the U/Y goes to the factory junction at the starter, but I don't know what joint/mod may be involved with it...but I'm not going to use the plug and if the rest proves itself I will strongly suggest he purchase a new harness just for SOP.


Here's what I'm thinking, the harness was unwrapped and rewrapped at some point. Your Mystery connector is Original to the harness IF it goes straight to the Factory starter terminal undisturbed. The U/B wire would have otherwise gone to the CSV plug now CUT.

Your TTS plug is a spliced on pigtail (your photo) rewired too represent the Schematic configuration or now Updated LATE STYLE harness. I wonder if there was a service bulletin that called for this change which later got incorporated to the Late Harness.

[Ron]

Here's what I'm thinking, the harness was unwrapped and rewrapped at some point. Your Mystery connector is Original to the harness IF it goes straight to the Factory starter terminal undisturbed. The U/B wire would have otherwise gone to the CSV plug now CUT.

Your TTS plug is a spliced on pigtail (your photo) rewired too represent the Schematic configuration or now Updated LATE STYLE harness. I wonder if there was a service bulletin that called for this change which later got incorporated to the Late Harness.
I totally agree! (...after adding at least 2 more previous un/re-wraps ;-)
The U/Y does go to the starter undisturbed. From what I saw (and know now) it is a late harness modified to match the schematic.
I would like to know exactly what they chopped out and where they did it all. I'll bet it had to do with dumping the Hot Start idea...

Thanks again for the leg work (and being a good sounding board)!

[DMC5180]

I totally agree! (...after adding at least 2 more previous un/re-wraps ;-)
The U/Y does go to the starter undisturbed. From what I saw (and know now) it is a late harness modified to match the schematic.
I would like to know exactly what they chopped out and where they did it all. I'll bet it had to do with dumping the Hot Start idea...

Thanks again for the leg work (and being a good sounding board)!

No problem, this was a fun exercise to figure out. Btw: You have an Early style harness modified too the late style configuration which now matches the schematic (electrically). If you recall, you said you had 2 B/Y wires coming from the factory starter connector.

[Ron]

No problem, this was a fun exercise to figure out. Btw: You have an Early style harness modified too the late style configuration which now matches the schematic (electrically). If you recall, you said you had 2 B/Y wires coming from the factory starter connector.
LOL ...but it also has factory paired W/R wires from the BH connector, which is where most of the un-molested wires come from. Maybe we should call it crossbred rather than modified X style...I am headed to see if I can call it "Working" ;-)...

[DMC5180]

LOL ...but it also has factory paired W/R wires from the BH connector, which is where most of the un-molested wires come from. Maybe we should call it crossbred rather than modified X style...I am headed to see if I can call it "Working" ;-)...

The Early style harness has the Paired W/R wires at the BH connector. Electrically it is the same as the LATE style configuration( Except in the LATE style they buried the splice junction inside the harness wrap) It was not necessary to cut and re-splice the W/R (spiral trace) down stream for the modification.

Btw; what color are the two wires at the CSV connector? I'm guessing neither one is W/R. It appears to me they took the W/R (Spiral Trace) from the normally BLUE CSV connector and moved down to the TTS plug. Hence, the very short splice at that plug.

[Ron]

The Early style harness has the Paired W/R wires at the BH connector. Electrically it is the same as the LATE style configuration( Except in the LATE style they buried the splice junction inside the harness wrap) It was not necessary to cut and re-splice the W/R (spiral trace) down stream for the modification.

Btw; what color are the two wires at the CSV connector? I'm guessing neither one is W/R. It appears to me they took the W/R (Spiral Trace) from the normally BLUE CSV connector and moved down to the TTS plug. Hence, the very short splice at that plug.
Yes!...the paired W/R wires at the BH connector, being the biggest un-molested piece is why I say it is an early harness according to what you have. I have no idea what the PO? did, just that it rings out now lol.

No. It is as labeled in the pic...the CSV has a W/R and and a U/B. So does the TTS, but it has two U/B wires, one of which I added because it was a convent place to feed the burnt off U/B wire to the (unused) HOT start wire, just to be complete...the other U/B there simply goes straight to the CSV, and the W/R wires both go to the same BH connector terminal.