Throttle body to Air filter adapter

[nkemp]

Seems that one of the problematic parts when converting from Bosch CIS to EFI is adapting from the stock (if using) throttle bodies to the stock (if using) air filter. The Distributor can be gutted, parts can be cobbled together and parts can be fabricated but it is always nice if OEM parts can be reused. Here may be some parts that may help.

A number of years ago (12+) I pulled some parts from various cars ... just in case. Here are pictures of one:
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The parts are from a VW of unknown model with Bosch CIS.

- The round part fit over the Fuel Distributor where our filter fits. As such, if you turn it over it fits right on the DeLorean air filter. This part can be used to make a nice 90 degree bend from the filter towards the throttle body
- The tube is "oval" for all practical purposes and the ends measure about 3.75 x 2.25
- The other end has rubber adapter that measures about 3.75 x 2.25 on both ends. It also includes a number of ports one of which could be used for IAT, the other could be used for an idle air filtered air source.

HELP... Can someone, who has the TB sitting outside the car, measure the throttle body's inlet side (CIS Distributor side) and reply back? Hopefully it will be about 3.75 x 2.25! I need to keep mine running for a while or I'd provide the measurements here.

Clearly the VW assembly will not work as is. But it doesn't take much to imagine how the middle tube could be adapted. Or a custom tube could be created to fit between the two boots. Even if the round boot is the only part used it is still a nice part to use.

The VW part numbers (taken from parts)
- Oval air filter adapter 067133357
- Tube 067133373
- Oval adapter 067133649

I also pulled a Volvo air tube (# 127 651) that fit on the Volvo's CIS Fuel Distributor. It is rigid plastic and as such does not slide over the DeLorean air filter but could be used if a sleeve was used to connect to the DeLorean filter.
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Lest someone thinks that the mounting tabs will work if flipped and used under the DeLorean air cleaner... they won't. They are not symmetrical (mirror images) and when the part is flipped thy will not fit. Also, this part may not fit between the runners and will require lots of further fab work. It is included for completeness... maybe someone wants to play with one.

[dmc6960]

HELP... Can someone, who has the TB sitting outside the car, measure the throttle body's inlet side (CIS Distributor side) and reply back? Hopefully it will be about 3.75 x 2.25! I need to keep mine running for a while or I'd provide the measurements here.

I can tonight if nobody else does. I still have both the air meter assembly and throttle body sitting in a box in the garage.

As an added bonus I could bring both items with me to the orchard this Sunday for a real test-fit.

[nkemp]

Bringing them to the orchard would be great!

Nick

[Spittybug]

I'm watching this one eagerly! The only reason the "stock" EFI setups have to keep their fuel distributor assemblies is to provide connection for the odd geometry between the slightly downward facing throttle body and the horizontal plane of the bottom of the air cleaner. We've looked to find a >90* boot that would mate to the air cleaner and the face of the TB with no luck to date. Given the confined space, rubber would be the preferred method. Being able to totally remove the fuel unit while keeping the stock manifold and air cleaner (we shown the addition of fuel rails isn't a problem) makes for a very clean install, less weight and much better access to the distributor.

Would love to see you succeed on this one! I Googled that part number and found this:

Elbow at meter on top of air box.P/N - 067-133-357 (CR)
Fits:
1979 to 1993 Rabbit Convertible & Cabriolet
1979 to 1984 Jetta
1979 to 1984 Rabbit Pick Up
1975 to 1984 Rabbit
1974 to 1989 Scirocco

and this: http://www.busdepot.com/air-intake-boot/

[nkemp]

AFAIK, this part would work to make the 90 degree bend. I have not tried installing it on the intake manifold but I don't think height will be an issue. Here is a picture with the part slid on the DeLorean air filter (upside down... downside up):

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It slides on nicely and a hose clamp may be all that is needed to make a secure & air tight connection. If not, a bit of little RTV would do the job. Being a circle it can be oriented in any direction.

The RED circle highlights a rib that if removed would allow the boot to slide on farther. I think it is currently on far enough to get a good clamping surface. If/when I do it I'd remove the rib to get it on farther just in case.

My concern is still the connection to the throttle body and I anxiously await the dimensions. It would be SOOOOO nice if the other boot would fit.

Nick

[Spittybug]

I measured the oval on the fuel distributor end. 4 1/4" x 2" Now, that is the internal dimension of the hole, the throttle body has a rubber gasket that presses up against this face. So, to go over the "mouth" of the TB it would have to be bigger, say 1/2" in both dimensions?

[nkemp]

Hmmmmm. It will be interesting to see how it fits or not on Jim's pieces this Sunday. I'm not optimistic.

Your measurements are more accurate than mine were... I measured the inside of the rubber couplers which are somewhat of a moving target (also, my notes said 3 1/2 and I typed 3 3/4). So I just measured the plastic tube external dimensions and it is pretty close to 3 5/8 x 2 1/4. The tube has a lip on the end and the parts do not fit real tight past the lip...just right.

BTW ... the outside diameter of the 90 degree boot when installed on the tube is 3 7/8 x 2 1/2 (not including the lip). I still think the boot gets us more than half way there.

[nkemp]

Finally I found a picture of the backside of the throttle body... where else but eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-1982-DeLorean-DMC-12-Throttle-Body-no-valve-assembly-2401269402-OEM-/120975789278) They show it with the rubber coupler attached.

So is it fair to copy a picture from eBay and post it here?

It has been a while since I took that part apart and it is different than I recall. It needs a flange to attach to the throttle body. As such, the VW rubber adapter will not fit nicely to the backside of the throttle body.

[Spittybug]

Too difficult to speculate on these kind of things. We need to wait for your test on Sunday.

I have a full manifold/TB/Fuel distributor laying in the workshop that I would be willing to play around with if you want to send me the boot, but I think you're fully equipped to do the same, aren't you?

[nkemp]

Yes... I think I can use Jim's parts. And once it snows I can use mine :-(

Nick

[vwdmc16]

Hmmm, that rabbit CIS boot may be what I need for my EFI swap, If I could get my 3" diameter AMM to fit in the end opposite of the air filter, that might be perfect to connect the two. From there I will still need to make my own new larger W pipe to connect to my twin TBs. I see a trip to the junk yard coming!

[nkemp]

The Bosch CIS was used in a variety of cars but as I recall, the dimensions of some of the air flow sensor housings were different. For sure the sensor plates differed but I'm not sure to what extent the exterior of the housings changed. The main point here is to measure the outside of the air flow sensor housing (that mates to the DeLorean's air filter) and any CIS with a similar dimension may have a "boot" that would fit to the bottom of the DeLorean air filter box.

It would be nice to know all the cars that used an air flow sensor with the same housing dimensions as the DeLorean. It would make it easier to locate compatible boots/tubes/elbows or whatever.

The idea is simple, if the rubber boot can fit over the air flow sensor housing, it will fit over the DeLorean air filter outlet since the filter outlet is very thin.

Plastic tubes, like shown above, are a different story. Since they are ridged, they will not slide over the D's AF outlet. They simply but up to the filter outlet. But making an airtight seal would be relatively easy with some tubing or rubber strips and 2 hose clamps or one wide band clamp.

Also: AMM =????? Anti Missile Missile, Aircraft Maintenance Manager, Alarm Management Module, Advanced Missile Model, Australian Milk Marketing, Acoustic Mismatch Model

Nick

[vwdmc16]

Sorry the MAF or mass air flow sensor for lh jet.

[Ron]

$.01

FYI: VW and Mercedes both call it an AMM (Air Mass Meter) in some of their manuals...

[nkemp]

The MN DeLoreans met at Deer Lake Orchard today and Jim brought a manifold, throttle body and W tube. I had an air cleaner and the fittings shown above. The 90 degree elbow shown above does not solve the problem when the air cleaner housing is mounted in its usual position. The trouble is that the throttle body is angled down and as such the 90 off the air cleaner does not match up. It is too high. The VW elbow just about touches the throttle body.

If there was a way for the tube to attach to the throttle body the angle to the air cleaner needs to be less than 90 degrees. And a longer tube is required from the elbow/bend to the housing (did that make sense?).

I also brought a air tube from a 2000 Grand Prix. It has a rubber flange that could be used to connect to the throttle body but it is too stiff to make the tight bend to the air cleaner housing.

Bottom line... the VW 90 degree part does not help the problem.

We didn't play with it but if the air cleaner was pushed back towards the firewall, the VW part may be of assistance. But you still need to find a part that bends down then up to the throttle body and adapts to the throttle body. A preferred 90 degree bend would have a longer tube going down from the air cleaner making it easier to connect to a horizontal tube that would bend up a bit and connect to the throttle body.

I hope that made sense.

Nick

[vwdmc16]

After two junk yard trips I found quite a selection of VW CIS boots to choose from, This one I got for $6 is off a '87 Jetta. The large end fits over the Delorean filter outlet snugly, minor trimming is needed for it to seat fully. the small end fits very snugly over a Bosch 3" MAF


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/vwdmc16/dmc/IMG_0683_zpscced2cb0.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/vwdmc16/dmc/IMG_0684_zps70436b9d.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/vwdmc16/dmc/IMG_0685_zpsbad81600.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/vwdmc16/dmc/IMG_0687_zps60887cd3.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/vwdmc16/dmc/IMG_0686_zps11db90f8.jpg



This should work perfectly to accomidate my twin Volvo throttles when I build a new W pipe.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c396/vwdmc16/dmc/twintb1.jpg

[Spittybug]

Why bother with the stock air cleaner with your new setup? I really like those dual TBs; don't you think a pair (or maybe one with dual mounts) of K&N rectangular filters on the face would be cool? Or cold air intake hoses off to the pontoon where you you have the filter? How are you going to connect the linkages of the two TBs?

[nkemp]

The reason I'd stay with a stock air filter is to maintain the look of the original engine. Yes there are other alternatives, some that may even work better.

It would even be kinda neat to go EFI where the injectors used fuel lines instead of fuel rails. The fuel lines could come back to a header made to look similar to the fuel distributor.

Nick

[dmc6960]

It would even be kinda neat to go EFI where the injectors used fuel lines instead of fuel rails. The fuel lines could come back to a header made to look similar to the fuel distributor.

who said you could steal my ideas! I posted about wanting to do just that a whole back. I think it was after the .com crash so it should be here. I'll have to do some diggin. :smile:

Of course, now that I've sold my intake manifold and throttle body, that would get much harder to do.

[vwdmc16]

Why bother with the stock air cleaner with your new setup?...

.... How are you going to connect the linkages of the two TBs?



I wish to retain a stockish appearance, I'd like to use all the OEM parts I can to make it look like something that DMC could have put together if the company continued on a few more years and upgraded the engine to EFI. Its also probably foolish and wishful thinking but Im hoping I might be able to fool a Smog tech and therefor not have to swap my fuel system every two years when I need to smog the car, Damn you California. It will produce less pollutants than the stock set up.

For linkages I will have a common shaft that runs below the throttles with links to the arms, that will be connected to a modified Volvo throttle spool then the stock DMC cable Or I may be able to retain the stock throttle spool.

[nkemp]

who said you could steal my ideas!

Great minds think alike ... or maybe it is MN minds think alike :smile:

Nick