Modified PRV Performance Figures

[bladerunner]

Been looking through the site and the web in general for performance figures for some of the common modifications to the PRV. Specifically looke at Stage I-III, Island TT v. Legend TT, etc. I did find that the Stage III setup puts out 233hp at the flywheel. I did not see numbers for WHP. Tamir reported 0-60 in 5.8 seconds with 12 lbs of boost with the Legend twin turbos.

[Nicholas R]

Been looking through the site and the web in general for performance figures for some of the common modifications to the PRV. Specifically looke at Stage I-III, Island TT v. Legend TT, etc. I did find that the Stage III setup puts out 233hp at the flywheel. I did not see numbers for WHP. Tamir reported 0-60 in 5.8 seconds with 12 lbs of boost with the Legend twin turbos.

That 233hp is an estimated value at the flywheel based on an assumed massive loss through the transmission. You're really looking at only about 155hp at the wheels.

Here's the official statement about the stage III:


Many people got the chance to drive the Stage III at the track during the DMC Open House this past October, and it's now available for installation.

Performance numbers are an estimated 233hp and 230ft lbs of torque at the flywheel (based on the generally accepted 32% transmission/tire loss for horsepower and 20% loss of torque). Over three runs; one on a 90degree day and two the following morning with the temp in the mid-upper 70s, the max horsepower at the wheels was 157.53 and torque of 184.48. The low numbers on the 90 degree day were 153.97hp and 179.64 ft. lb.

Stage III (installed) - All the items listed for Stage I and Stage II, plus: Sprintex supercharger, crankshaft pulley, belt and tensioner, ECU and wiring harness, fuel enrichment add-on and all necessary ducting and plumbing.

Stage I to III - Includes Stage II and Stage III components - $11,495 (installed)

Stage II to III - Includes Stage III components - $8,695.00 (installed)

Pre-2011 Stage I and II installations may require redesigned muffler at additional cost ($279).

Any questions, please contact me directly at [email protected]

Regards,

Stephen Wynne
Source: http://www.dmchelp.com/content.php?123-Stage-I-II-and-III-pricing-and-details

Personally I have never heard of this generally accepted rule of 32% power loss through the transmission. If you're loosing 1/3 of your engines power through a manual transmission, you've got some pretty serious problems on your hands. The energy has to go somewhere! Where is it going??

I really couldn't imagine spending 12k for an improvement of ~40hp at the wheels. That's about $300 per hp increase.

[bladerunner]

Personally I have never heard of this generally accepted rule of 32% power loss through the transmission. If you're loosing 1/3 of your engines power through a manual transmission, you've got some pretty serious problems on your hands. The energy has to go somewhere! Where is it going??


That is a steep loss. Generally I have seen as much as 15% (could be more if you have an inefficient converter), so 32% is high.

[Nicholas R]

That is a steep loss. Generally I have seen as much as 15% (could be more if you have an inefficient converter), so 32% is high.

Yes; the key word you used is converter. It is certainly known that there are losses through an automatic transmission with a torque converter... but this data is with a manual transmission! The Stage III car is a manual! (the data reflects values at the flywheel) Where is all that energy going? If it was going to heat, then the transmission would be glowing red!

[bladerunner]

Yes; the key word you used is converter. It is certainly known that there are losses through an automatic transmission with a torque converter... but this data is with a manual transmission! The Stage III car is a manual! (the data reflects values at the flywheel) Where is all that energy going? If it was going to heat, then the transmission would be glowing red!

Anybody ever dyno'd these setups? I have to imagine someone has.

[EarlHickey]

Anybody ever dyno'd these setups? I have to imagine someone has.



The huge other clue is the paltry 1ft/lb of torque per CID with 12 lbs boost, it's just barely attaining 100% volumetric efficiency..... allegedly at the crank as 20 points are lost doing some major torsional flexing through shafts and gears apparently made of heat treated hard rubber.

If either of the other $tage$ actually addressed the intake, exhaust and combustion ailments, it should bear fruits indicating acceptable VE, normally aspirated.

Doing that would be an acceptable first $tep and I'd not disclose my cam specs if my mods weren't capable either.

A very accepted benchmark for normally aspirated engines is 'how wide of an operating range does the engine operate at 90% VE or more'.

That ranks right up there with BSFC numbers of which appear to be equally unimportant to those modifying the prv.

http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r532/DeloreanPerformanceModifications/DegreeStagger_zpsc350ceb8.jpg

[Nicholas R]

Anybody ever dyno'd these setups? I have to imagine someone has.

What setups? The Stage III setup? Those numbers are from the dyno runs that DMCH preformed on the Stage III installed on a manual transmission car:

Over three runs; one on a 90degree day and two the following morning with the temp in the mid-upper 70s, the max horsepower at the wheels was 157.53 and torque of 184.48. The low numbers on the 90 degree day were 153.97hp and 179.64 ft. lb.

[bladerunner]

What setups? The Stage III setup? Those numbers are from the dyno runs that DMCH preformed on the Stage III installed on a manual transmission car:

The ones I mentioned in the OP. I think I know where the Stage I-III stands, thanks Nick for that link, I missed that initially. What kind of output does a twin turbo have? Various things folks have said on the net indicate an 80-100 HP gain, but a lot of this seems based on impressions from Youtube videos, not experience.

[Nicholas R]

Got ya. I'd certainly like to know the same thing.

This may help. This is the information provided about Martin in the UK's turbo setup.

DeLorean Turbo Engine £6995*

Two-and-a-half times the power at the rear wheels over a stock DeLorean**
0-60 in 6 seconds
260 hp
270+ ft-lbs torque
150+mph
30+mpg (motorway)

Renault 2.5 turbo internals
Bespoke Hybrid Turbocharger
Custom Engine Management
Water-Air chargecooler
Custom stainless steel exhaust

The DeLorean has always suffered from a lack of power. The blame is often attributed, unfairly, to the engine. Yet while the original DeLorean incarnation was relatively poor, the PRV family subsequently developed to provide the power behind some truly fast cars - most notably the Alpine GTA Turbo, on which this conversion is based.
Combining original parts from DeLorean and Renault engines, as well as brand new, modified and custom parts, this scratch-built solution has been designed to safely and reliably replace your original engine, giving your car the performance it always deserved. This engine is unique and should not be confused with upgraded standard engines offered by other DeLorean specialists. The difference in performance speaks for itself.
This conversion is not suitable for automatic DeLoreans.
* plus exchange of old engine OR components required from it, purchased separately. Price is engine installed, and includes uprated clutch and performance brake pads
** allowing for a drivetrain loss of 45hp, a stock 130hp engine provides 85hp at the rear wheels. 260hp gives 215hp at the rear wheels
Link: http://delorean.co.uk/delorean_performance.html

No idea if it's based on theoretical data or actual dyno data.

I assume that this setup must require the replacement of the engine internals (forged parts perhaps?) Otherwise I dont really see how this one could produce so much more than the supercharger when both setups are essentially based on the boost provided.

[jamesrguk]

Got ya. I'd certainly like to know the same thing.

This may help. This is the information provided about Martin in the UK's turbo setup.

Link: http://delorean.co.uk/delorean_performance.html

No idea if it's based on theoretical data or actual dyno

Theoretical AFAIK which to be honest bears no weight in the real world.

I've yet to hear or one of Martin's engines work properly, that's not to say they don't, but the only owner I know who had one hated it to the point of having it replaced after about 3months with a crate engine with stage II installed by Ed Uding at DMC Europe. (I'm in the UK)

My DMC shows 147bhp at the flywheel and just has the UK SS exhaust and Volvo K-Jet clobber on, we dyno'd loads of d's on the same dyno, on the same day, including stock set up, carb set ups etc... mine was awarded most powerful auto woohoo.

Still think I could out run it on my wife's 50cc moped though lol

James