New Spec II engine won't start any ideas?

[ssr60]

I recently installed a Spec II engine from Josh at DPI and for the life of me I can’t get it to start. I have been working with Josh trying to get the engine to start but still have had no luck. Josh has offered to come and take a look so he’s not leaving me hanging.

I installed a Spec II engine complete with K jet fuel system and wire harness. Engine was broken in and tested before being shipped.

My car ran fine before I pulled the old engine in February. Car sat for seven months waiting for the new engine so I pumped out the old gas, wiped down the fuel tank, added new gas pumped it through the hard fuel lines and then installed a new fuel filter and new gas before I connected the fuel lines to the engine.

Engine is getting fuel and spark but won’t start. I’ve spent the last month working on this problem but have not made any progress. I will occasionally get a small pop but that’s it. No sputter or any attempt what so ever to start.

Here’s what I have done so far and the order:

Check for fuel at fuel distributor – Yes
Checked for spark on cylinder #3 – Yes
Pull all injectors placed in jars checked – Yes
Checked all wire harness connections on engine

Read DMCTALK a lot

Checked primary pressure - 4.5 bars
Checked all fuses - OK
Cleaned grounds
Checked all wire harness connections on engine again
Clean connections at coil, resistor, firewall, and wire harness
Checked timing – it was way off / set to 13%
Checked for spark on all 6 wires - Yes
Checked vacuum lines - OK
Pulled plugs checked gap – OK
Added ground wires from frame to engine block and frame to resistor
Played with timing
Installed plugs from old engine
Sent photos of wiring at coil, resistor, and starter to Josh - OK

Read DMCTALK more

Checked sprays on injectors more closely - Spray look bad and volume of fuel collected in jars differed. Had injectors cleaned found some dirt and metal particles. Installed new injectors spray looks good and volume of fuel in jars is equal.

Replaced coil and resistor

Posted on DMCTALK
Thanks!

[Kenny_Z]

I looked through your list and didn't see this so I'll ask. Have you tried rotating just the distributor cap 180 degrees? I did that with Red, very easy to do and the symptoms sound the same.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I looked through your list and didn't see this so I'll ask. Have you tried rotating just the distributor cap 180 degrees? I did that with Red, very easy to do and the symptoms sound the same.

Agree.

You have fuel and spark and since the engine was running, you have compression. So the spark must be way off (180 deg.). Have you tried a little starting fluid?

[ssr60]

The distributor being 180 degs off is the first thing I thought of but if Josh had it running before he shipped the engine it couldn’t be off 180 and I have tried starter fluid a couple weeks ago and again today – nothing.

[vwdmc16]

How about a large vacuum leak? The pipe of agony maybe?

[ssr60]

All vacuum hoses on the engine came installed. I checked to see if anything had come loose. I connected the 4 hoses from the drivers side to the engine.

[Bitsyncmaster]

How about a large vacuum leak? The pipe of agony maybe?

Another good idea.

How did you check the timing since the engine is not running?

[deloumis]

Have you confirmed firing order?

[nullset]

Have you removed the distributor since you got it? If so, it could be off by 180 or even 360 degrees. That happened to me on 2930.

Things to check for:

- Air
- Spark
- Fuel
- Compression

Have you tried removing the air box and spraying starting fluid in to the intake? Or jumpering the cold start valve? ( Connect the plug from the warm up regulator to the CSV instead of what normally goes there)

I'd also consider pulling the fuse on the fuel pump and then trying again, and once there's no pressure in the fuel system, try again with starting fluid.

--buddy

[ssr60]

There are a lot of things I would check if Josh hadn’t said the engine was running before he shipped it. It came complete with fuel system, radiator hoses, vacuum lines, wire harness, plugs, wires you name it, it was installed. Josh said it was a plug and play set up. All I hooked up was the two fuel lines, coil wire, ground from the resistor, O2, and starter.

As for the timing, all I could do is hook to the number One plug wire and turn the starter over to line up the mark on the pulley. At that RPM it’s set at 13 deg. Because its not running at the proper RMP to set the timing I also played with the timing moving the distributor as far to the right and left and steps in between to see if that had any effect. Nothing.

I have not touched the distributor other then adjust the timing. Pulled the RPM replay jumped it and did a swap. Pulled all of the fuses and checked them and tried the CSV swap. I’ll check compression.

[nullset]

I'd really recommend that you pull the RPM relay and try starting spray.

Also, check the resistor connections on your firewall. Make sure you get voltage there during starting. Is your battery strong or tired from all of the attempts to start? You may want to throw it on a charger.

Post a video with sound if you can. It can help people to figure out what's going on.

--buddy

[deloumis]

You mentioned you had fuel coming out of the injectors, was it just spraying fuel or did you have to tap down the metering plate to get fuel out? Make sure your fuel lines are not swapped. The feed and return lines, if they are swapped fuel will just flow out and flood your engine. Check your oil see if it has gas I'm guessing it will.

[Delorean Industries]

I'm going to vote for worst case on this and check the actual distributor orientation. Everything is cleaned extensively and painted after the break in period detailed etc so things can still go wrong. My concern is continuous cranking on still fresh piston rings and internals. All of the fuel is not good for anything if it isn't being burnt. Pop the cap, loose the locking nut and 180 the distributor rotor by lifting up on the distributor and see what happens. I've shipped out more of these than I can count but it is the most likely possibility after checking everything common. Its just difficult for this to be it as the crankshaft does not move before or after being set at top dead for detailing and final checking of coolant lines under the intake etc.

Still very concerned about the damaged injectors as the ones on the engine as with the distributor have only run as long as the build. As I stated via email I can warranty the injectors and distributor if contamination occurred through the fuel system just to be safe at any time if you want. Two year warranty from date of delivery on everything. With all the cranking/no start the oil needs to be changed as soon as it turns over.

[ssr60]

I am trying not to run a lot of fuel into the cylinders so I’ve been pulling the RPM relay when testing electrical to cut down on the amount of fuel.

The injectors have spray without pressing down on the metering plate. In the past I’ve pulled the plugs and let it air out.

I checked compression and found this:

#1 120
#2 110
#3 95
#4 95
#5 115
#6 90

Josh I’ll go ahead and check the distributor 180, thanks.

[deloumis]

The injectors have spray without pressing down on the metering plate.

Make sure your feed and return lines are not swapped, they should not have spray without pushing down. Are they spraying a lot or a small amount without pushing down?

[Delorean Industries]

Just to clarify because people like to assume. My choice to no longer offer anything other than exhaust systems out of shop is because of the nightmare of selling camshafts and pistons with owners getting in over their head. Nothing to do with this current situation. In house only now on all engines, spec upgrades, engine hard components including pistons and our newly manufactured cylinder liners etc unless you bring us to the car for the install. (which I am more than happy to do)

[Ron]

$.02

It sounds to me like it is flooded, bad. I'd suggest jumping the fuel pump and turning the CO screw counter clockwise until all of the injectors just stop spraying (watch all 6...they should quit at abt the same time...turn VERY slowly). Then pull the easy plugs and see how they look. If any are wet, pull them all, and turn the engine over a few times to air it out (blow the cylinders out if you have compressed air or wait and wait some more...). If you suspect the distributor has been out since it ran, I would not just try spinning it 180° -- If it's off, especially when there is no obvious reason why, it could be anywhere...just reset it the right way and move on. You can double check the distributor orientation by putting a compression gauge in #1 and bump the starter until you see the pressure coming up. Just make sure it is very short bumps and that you only have a short distance to manually turn the crank to/back to align it to 13° BTDC. The rotor button should then be pointing at #1 cylinder wire (it will NOT be 180 off here...fyi there is no such thing as 360 off). If not, pull the distributor up until you can reposition the rotor button. (As you will see, the rotor button turns a little as the distributor goes back in place...just retry and allow for it.) (You can use a hose slightly bigger than the spark plug threads to feel the compression instead of using a compression gauge, or even your fingers if they are long enough. Note all of the above works for ANY engine that times off of #1). Since you already know you are getting fire, it should start when you replace the plugs, etc. You may have to turn the distributor a little... If it starts, immediately shut it off and change the oil AND filter! (This what Josh meant when he said "turns over".) When you start it back up again, it will probably run rough at first. Set your timing then CO (warm engine) right away.

[ssr60]

UPDATE:

Swapped the distributor 180 deg and adjusted the CO screw as Ron recommended and it started on the first crank. Replaced the oil and filter and the engine runs like a champ. Thanks for all the help.

[Kenny_Z]

Awesome news. I'm glad you got her running. Have fun with that spec II :D

[DMC5180]

UPDATE:

Swapped the distributor 180 deg and adjusted the CO screw as Ron recommended and it started on the first crank. Replaced the oil and filter and the engine runs like a champ. Thanks for all the help.

The question is who installed the distributor wrong in the first place? You or DPI? You said, the engine had been pre run before it left the DPI shop. Or did the distributor get pulled at DPI after initial run for the Detail work. HMM, we should be hearing a thud from some one falling on a sword.

[Delorean Industries]

The question is who installed the distributor wrong in the first place? You or DPI? You said, the engine had been pre run before it left the DPI shop. Or did the distributor get pulled at DPI after initial run for the Detail work. HMM, we should be hearing a thud from some one falling on a sword.

Thud. Must have been on this end when it was detailed out. I don't think he touched the distributor prior to my call with him yesterday. The test distributor stays with the test rig. In my build notes I did check valve lash on all cylinders prior to detailing for delivery. That would involve turning the engine over. Possible the distributor that shipped wasn't in yet. I have no idea as I have put together two more this last week alone.

[DMC5180]

Good to know your Human after all. :biggrin:

BTW: It would be nice to see one of your engines setup on the Dyno. Can you post a pic or put something on your website?

[Ron]

... and I have tried starter fluid a couple weeks ago and again today.
How did you accomplish this being so far away?

[Dangermouse]

He said his (internet) provider was 180 degrees off. Therefore he was actually there.

[Delorean Industries]

He said his (internet) provider was 180 degrees off. Therefore he was actually there.

What am I missing here?

[Dangermouse]

What am I missing here?

see post 23 from our newest member

[Delorean Industries]

see post 23 from our newest member

Ha.... Yeah this forum cracks me up.

[Mike C.]

My ban hammer was set at 180 degrees as well.

[stevedmc]

Put a carb on it.

[Soundkillr]

Put a carb on it.

He's trying to make the engine suck less not more.....

[Dangermouse]

He's trying to make the engine suck less not more.....

Very good :)

Josh, is that Senna's eye, btw ?

[Delorean Industries]

Very good :)

Josh, is that Senna's eye, btw ?

yes :)

[Dangermouse]

Both eyes, now :)