No flashers, no hazard

[Michael Babb]

Hello all,

I officially have my hands on my new DeLorean . . and now the questions can start as I uncover things that are not quite right.

Question one - the car does not flash at all with either the turn signal in the right or left turn positions. . .nor do any any lights flash when the hazard switch is depressed. . .

Pre-purchase inspection from DMC-CA recommended SP10303 (Bulb, Door Lamp) with Labor - to remove cluster and replace turn single bulbs for turn single for left side. . . .though I believe 10302 is the light in the door itself, while 10302 is the instrument cluster bulb.

This sound correct? Can a blown bulb in the cluster cause all blinker functionality to quit working? I was originally thinking 100708 (Flasher/Hazard module) that goes under the dash. I know that I replaced mine in my previous D, but think that when my old one malfunctioned that the condition was a solid-on light. . . so all lights worked, they just did not blink.

Thoughts?

[Bitsyncmaster]

There is one flasher unit that does both the signals and 4 way flashing. It's up near the steering column.

[DMC5180]

Make sure the flasher is in place and check FUSE 6. It supplies power to the DI and Hazard switch (also the Key buzzer) if it's still hooked up (plugged in at buzzer or the door switch)

[refugeefromcalif]

Make sure the flasher is in place and check FUSE 6. It supplies power to the DI and Hazard switch (also the Key buzzer) if it's still hooked up (plugged in at buzzer or the door switch)

Key Buzzer? :confused:
This is the first I've heard about this.
My car doesn't Buzz.?.? Under what conditions is it supposed to Buzz?

George

[DMC5180]

Key Buzzer? :confused:
This is the first I've heard about this.
My car doesn't Buzz.?.? Under what conditions is it supposed to Buzz?

George

Normal conditions (key in ignition and driver door open) Most are usually disabled. One of the two door plunger switches [driver side] is dedicated for this. Look up behind the Left Knee pad and see if their is a connector dangling.

[David T]

You do all of the easy stuff first, checking the flasher, the fuses, and some bulbs. Truth is there are a LOT of things that can go wrong and kill the flashing lights, from wiring problems to the turn switch. The good news is it is usually something really easy like the flasher is bad or maybe it isn't even there! Then there are the cases where it is a combination of several problems which have to found and fixed, one at a time. That flasher is on a plate way up over the steering column under the dash. Assume the Lotus position. Easier if you remove the seat first. Check the plugs in the harnesses going to the steering column too.
David Teitelbaum

[Dangermouse]

Key Buzzer? :confused:
This is the first I've heard about this.
My car doesn't Buzz.?.? Under what conditions is it supposed to Buzz?

George

Only if you are deaf:)

Some new owners spend the time to work out why it doesn't buzz, fix it, and then instantly know why it was disabled in the first place.

As Dennis says, plug in the door switch and you will see. Or rather hear ;)

[jawn101]

Only if you are deaf:)

Some new owners spend the time to work out why it doesn't buzz, fix it, and then instantly know why it was disabled in the first place.

As Dennis says, plug in the door switch and you will see. Or rather hear ;)

OT: I did this. I even went as far as to get a replacement buzzer unit as mine as clearly broken. Then I heard it and disabled the brand new unit.

On topic: You'll have a way easier time seeing/replacing the flasher unit if you pull your driver's seat and lay on your back in the footwell.

[Tillsy]

Some new owners spend the time to work out why it doesn't buzz, fix it, and then instantly know why it was disabled in the first place.

In my case I was correcting a crapload of electrical connections all over the place that were disconnected, and obviously the next time I inserted my key I got one hell of a shock when this almighty horrid buzz started going crazy. Needless to say once I worked out it was one of the driver's side plungers that plug once again became disconnected :)

[Dangermouse]

In my case I was correcting a crapload of electrical connections all over the place that were disconnected, and obviously the next time I inserted my key I got one hell of a shock when this almighty horrid buzz started going crazy. Needless to say once I worked out it was one of the driver's side plungers that plug once again became disconnected :)

:hysterical:

[cybercusp]

The sound affectionately referred to as the dying goat sound.

[Michael Babb]

After replacing the flasher module itself, and trying a known working hazard switch we determined that the ground wire on the hazard module wiring harness as a bit too loose and was keeping the flasher from working properly. a few minutes with some needle-nose pliers and I now have functioning turn signals and hazard lights. Made me feel much better about the 2+ hour drive home in the dark last night.

[awildermode]

I am having the same problem and unable to find a solution. Flasher stopped working one night, neither hazard nor signals. Checked fuse #6.

Pressing the hazard switch, I can hear the flasher unit click once. I do the same with #6 unplugged and no 'click', as expected. I assume that it is the flasher. Signaling is a no go. Checked connections to flasher unit and fuse, and they seem good (tight)

Get a new flasher, still no blinky blink. Pressing hazard gives me the same one click, then nothing. Unplugging #6 yields same result, as expected.

What are my next options?

Thanks

[David T]

Check the bulbs.
David Teitelbaum

[jawn101]

I am having the same problem and unable to find a solution. Flasher stopped working one night, neither hazard nor signals. Checked fuse #6.

Pressing the hazard switch, I can hear the flasher unit click once. I do the same with #6 unplugged and no 'click', as expected. I assume that it is the flasher. Signaling is a no go. Checked connections to flasher unit and fuse, and they seem good (tight)

Get a new flasher, still no blinky blink. Pressing hazard gives me the same one click, then nothing. Unplugging #6 yields same result, as expected.

What are my next options?

Thanks

I had a similar issue where one of my 1157s in the front turn signal had turned in its socket slightly. That plus some light corrosion in the socket had caused some kind of a short and was messing up the whole flasher circuit. I removed all 4 flasher bulbs, cleaned all the sockets, sanded away the corrosion in the front signal (driver's side, in my case) and slightly reshaped the offending socket to make a tighter connection. Then I replaced the bulbs for good measure (even though they were confirmed OK)

Good luck!

[Ron]

It might be worth noting in this thread that-

Fuse #4: Directional Indicators (but not for stop light switch, as manual and several schematics show).
Fuse #6: Hazard, horn, buzzer, logic box..

[Morpheus]

This might seem like a silly question, but have you checked your windshield washer bottle? The drain holes on these get plugged up all the time. Eventually rainwater, carwashing, etc. causes that bucket to fill up, causing a short in the front wiring harness that just happens to run through that bottle area.

My car had these same turn signal/hazard symptoms, and the cause was a plugged washer bottle drain.

I drilled several more holes in the bottom of that bucket after this discovery and never had another problem.

[awildermode]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

For some reason, the new flasher unit I got started working again. I had one of our electronics guys look at my original flasher and it was still good. So, I have two flashers units, now. I plan on converting to LED very soon, so the new flasher will work.

Not sure what went wrong, it might have just been some connection problem. Although, it was very hard to pry the connector off the unit. I shattered the connector while doing it.

Oh well, everything works...for now. Thanks again for all your help and suggestions.

[David T]

When electrical problems come and go on an older car it most often comes down to loose, dirty, bad, corroded connections somewhere. Even if it goes away, all too often it will return until you actually find the problem and fix it. Difficult to properly test a flasher, I have seen them play intermittent. Sometimes they are very sensitive to the bulbs in the car. They need the proper size load to function correctly.
David Teitelbaum

[Marigolo]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

For some reason, the new flasher unit I got started working again. I had one of our electronics guys look at my original flasher and it was still good. So, I have two flashers units, now. I plan on converting to LED very soon, so the new flasher will work.

Not sure what went wrong, it might have just been some connection problem. Although, it was very hard to pry the connector off the unit. I shattered the connector while doing it.

Oh well, everything works...for now. Thanks again for all your help and suggestions.

Hi, I wanted to jump in because I'm having a problem sort of related to this that I can't quite understand.
First a little background:

I'm also slowly converting to LED's, and during this process I decided to upgrade the front flasher sockets which were VERY corroded. I replaced them with NAPA LS6253's, which by just cutting a small plastic tab work perfectly with the casing and lock into it like the originals (and beats paying $60 for OEM's).

21420

I installed GP-Thunder 1157 LED Amber Light Bulbs and they worked perfectly when I turned on the lights (first and second position).
I also had previously installed a new flasher module from SuperbrightLEDs, and also replaced the socket which basically fell apart when trying to replace it...

21421

Sooo... the problem is, when I activate the turn signal, the front LED's don't flash. I hear the module clicking, the back incandescent lights are flashing, but the front LED flashers just don't flash, either with turn signals or hazard lights. Remember, the LED's are working fine and they turn on when I turn on the lights.
Now, if I replace the front LED's with the original incandescent 1157's, they work perfectly! They flash with the turn signals and hazard also.

Does it have anything to do that I still haven't gone LED in the back??

Any ideas why this is happening?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
http://dmctalk.org/images/smilies/hmm.gif

[David T]

Hi, I wanted to jump in because I'm having a problem sort of related to this that I can't quite understand.
First a little background:

I'm also slowly converting to LED's, and during this process I decided to upgrade the front flasher sockets which were VERY corroded. I replaced them with NAPA LS6253's, which by just cutting a small plastic tab work perfectly with the casing and lock into it like the originals (and beats paying $60 for OEM's).

21420

I installed GP-Thunder 1157 LED Amber Light Bulbs and they worked perfectly when I turned on the lights (first and second position).
I also had previously installed a new flasher module from SuperbrightLEDs, and also replaced the socket which basically fell apart when trying to replace it...

21421

Sooo... the problem is, when I activate the turn signal, the front LED's don't flash. I hear the module clicking, the back incandescent lights are flashing, but the front LED flashers just don't flash, either with turn signals or hazard lights. Remember, the LED's are working fine and they turn on when I turn on the lights.
Now, if I replace the front LED's with the original incandescent 1157's, they work perfectly! They flash with the turn signals and hazard also.

Does it have anything to do that I still haven't gone LED in the back??

Any ideas why this is happening?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
http://dmctalk.org/images/smilies/hmm.gif

Refer to my previous post. When you use LED's you have a MUCH lower load and the flasher needs the correct size load to work properly. If you change the bulbs you have to use a special flasher that is not sensitive to load.
David Teitelbaum

[Marigolo]

Hi David, yes, I purchased a new flasher designed for LED's and that is the one that is currently installed (purchased it from SuperbrightLeds) and has been recommended elsewhere in the forums... Is that what you mean? That's why I was asking... Maybe the difference in loads? (Incandescent in the back and LED's in the front)...?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Some of those 1157 LEDs do not have much of a briteness change when they go from full power to the lower "marker" power. Or the LEDs may be defective.

[Marigolo]

Some of those 1157 LEDs do not have much of a briteness change when they go from full power to the lower "marker" power. Or the LEDs may be defective.

Hmmm... Yeah, that could also be a possibility. I'll try looking for another brand maybe, fortunately they're relatively inexpensive.
Thanks!

[David T]

Some of those 1157 LEDs do not have much of a briteness change when they go from full power to the lower "marker" power. Or the LEDs may be defective.

If you did change the flasher maybe you installed it incorrectly or it is defective. Call where you purchased it and ask them for technical help. As for the LED's, some are very directional and not all of them work well with the lenses. Also LED's are polarity sensitive. If the sockets are not wired correctly (you did say you replaced some) that would keep some of the LED's from working.
David Teitelbaum

[JohnZ]

Is there a way to replace the key buzzer with a gentle James Taylor tune?

:monkeys:

[Bitsyncmaster]

Is there a way to replace the key buzzer with a gentle James Taylor tune?

:monkeys:

Funny you should say that. I started to build a unit that used a recorded voice and to test it I burnt a James Taylor tune to test the voice quality. That project has been shelved but maybe one day will get back to it.

[Marigolo]

Funny you should say that. I started to build a unit that used a recorded voice and to test it I burnt a James Taylor tune to test the voice quality. That project has been shelved but maybe one day will get back to it.

That is so cool...

[JohnZ]

Please go on with your tests, Bit!

[Marigolo]

If you did change the flasher maybe you installed it incorrectly or it is defective. Call where you purchased it and ask them for technical help. As for the LED's, some are very directional and not all of them work well with the lenses. Also LED's are polarity sensitive. If the sockets are not wired correctly (you did say you replaced some) that would keep some of the LED's from working.
David Teitelbaum

Thanks David! I will check all my connections again, I will post the solution when it is resolved. :bang:

[DeLorean03]

I tried nearly every combo of 1157 SMD LEDs in my car. Nothing would work properly. I had all sorts of various weird symptoms. I especially noticed with one of the front LEDs installed everything was good, but as soon as the other side was installed, all sorts of weird junk would happen to my car.

Finally, I gave up on SMD LEDs. I got these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370832453349?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Don't let the picture fool you - these bulbs are massive. I have been very pleased with how they've worked out so far. They illuminate the front marker lights very well. As turn signals, they are OK - they aren't "omg, how amazing - best thing since filtered water!!!" - but they suit the purpose for me with great results.

[Marigolo]

I tried nearly every combo of 1157 SMD LEDs in my car. Nothing would work properly. I had all sorts of various weird symptoms. I especially noticed with one of the front LEDs installed everything was good, but as soon as the other side was installed, all sorts of weird junk would happen to my car.

Finally, I gave up on SMD LEDs. I got these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370832453349?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Don't let the picture fool you - these bulbs are massive. I have been very pleased with how they've worked out so far. They illuminate the front marker lights very well. As turn signals, they are OK - they aren't "omg, how amazing - best thing since filtered water!!!" - but they suit the purpose for me with great results.

Thanks for the tip! I will definitely consider these!

[Marigolo]

I tried nearly every combo of 1157 SMD LEDs in my car. Nothing would work properly. I had all sorts of various weird symptoms. I especially noticed with one of the front LEDs installed everything was good, but as soon as the other side was installed, all sorts of weird junk would happen to my car.

Finally, I gave up on SMD LEDs. I got these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370832453349?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Don't let the picture fool you - these bulbs are massive. I have been very pleased with how they've worked out so far. They illuminate the front marker lights very well. As turn signals, they are OK - they aren't "omg, how amazing - best thing since filtered water!!!" - but they suit the purpose for me with great results.

Hi, I went with your suggestion and purchased these bulbs. They're perfect and work very nicely, but I encountered a strange behavior that maybe you or someone else could shed some "light" on hehehe...
When the car lights are off, the turn signals work perfectly with the new LED Flasher. Everything cool there, but... When I turn on the lights (first or second position), the turn signals in front don't flicker, they just stay on, so if I'm driving at night, people coming towards me will not be able to tell I'm making a turn. It seems like there is only one "intensity level". Did you encounter this problem? I wanted to check if this behavior was "normal", so I connected the old Flasher and the old incandescents and the same behavior took place. Is that normal for the D, or do I have something wrong in my electrical system? I've only had it for a month, so I hadn't really noticed how it was before. It's strange that the same "no flashing with the lights on" happened with the incandescents and the old flasher right??

[Jonathan]

Hi, I went with your suggestion and purchased these bulbs. They're perfect and work very nicely, but I encountered a strange behavior that maybe you or someone else could shed some "light" on hehehe...
When the car lights are off, the turn signals work perfectly with the new LED Flasher. Everything cool there, but... When I turn on the lights (first or second position), the turn signals in front don't flicker, they just stay on, so if I'm driving at night, people coming towards me will not be able to tell I'm making a turn. It seems like there is only one "intensity level". Did you encounter this problem? I wanted to check if this behavior was "normal", so I connected the old Flasher and the old incandescents and the same behavior took place. Is that normal for the D, or do I have something wrong in my electrical system? I've only had it for a month, so I hadn't really noticed how it was before. It's strange that the same "no flashing with the lights on" happened with the incandescents and the old flasher right??

http://store.delorean.com/c-283-3-6-2-combination-switches.aspx

Have a look at #14 on this diagram, which is 100708 (the flasher/hazard relay). It is located on the bracket tucked up and under the drivers footwell. The bracket clips to the pedals assembly or it could be hanging down. Does everything there look to be in place and connected?

What do your rear taillights do when you put your turn signal on? Do they flash, or are they also on only?

Do your windshield wipers work? And does your wiper intermittent delay work?

[Marigolo]

http://store.delorean.com/c-283-3-6-2-combination-switches.aspx

Have a look at #14 on this diagram, which is 100708 (the flasher/hazard relay). It is located on the bracket tucked up and under the drivers footwell. The bracket clips to the pedals assembly or it could be hanging down. Does everything there look to be in place and connected?

What do your rear taillights do when you put your turn signal on? Do they flash, or are they also on only?

Do your windshield wipers work? And does your wiper intermittent delay work?

Hi Jonathan, yes, the flasher is connected correctly, I replaced the old one with a newer LED compatible version. I think it is working correctly because with no lights on, it does exactly what it's supposed to. The one thing I did that I haven't mentioned is upgrade the socket/plug the flasher connects to. The old one just came apart when removing the old flasher. I was very careful connecting the cables to the new socket in their correct positions... do you think that has anything to do with it?
Back lights behave in a normal fashion (they're still all incandescent), they flicker with or without the car lights on at a normal rate with the LED flasher and very fast with the old flasher.

[DeLorean03]

That is pretty weird. Incads should work perfectly, so for you to have the trouble with both incads and LEDs suggests something is weird. The new LED relay you bought, do the numbers on the terminals of the new LED relay match up EXACTLY like the numbers on the old one?

I learned the hard way you can have relays with the same pin layout but the numbering layout can be different.

[Marigolo]

That is pretty weird. Incads should work perfectly, so for you to have the trouble with both incads and LEDs suggests something is weird. The new LED relay you bought, do the numbers on the terminals of the new LED relay match up EXACTLY like the numbers on the old one?

I learned the hard way you can have relays with the same pin layout but the numbering layout can be different.

Just checked, they match... Strange indeed... I'll keep fooling around with it.
Thanks!!

[Jonathan]

+1 on weird :)

So headlights plus signals equals always on in the front? Hmmm...

Strange how it is only the fronts that don't flash as they should.

So we have: headlight switch, hazards switch, wiper/signal stalk assembly, relays + sockets... all potentially impacting things.

If the headlights coming on are "trumping" the turn signals flashing ability, what circuitry would allow that to happen? My car is pretty much stock in this area and I can't think of what would be in place to do such a thing.

Could it be related to the running lights type mode of the headlights? Meaning, when you push the headlight switch in (the new, replacement one anyway) the first time, it turns on the signal lights up front and keeps them on solid. One more push turns the headlights on as well and keeps the turn signal (front ones) steady on. Maybe the turn signal flashing input isn't getting past the signal to keep the running lights on? Or something along those lines...

[Ron]

See if a PO added the wig-wag modification...

[Marigolo]

+1 on weird :)

So headlights plus signals equals always on in the front? Hmmm...

Strange how it is only the fronts that don't flash as they should.

So we have: headlight switch, hazards switch, wiper/signal stalk assembly, relays + sockets... all potentially impacting things.

If the headlights coming on are "trumping" the turn signals flashing ability, what circuitry would allow that to happen? My car is pretty much stock in this area and I can't think of what would be in place to do such a thing.

Could it be related to the running lights type mode of the headlights? Meaning, when you push the headlight switch in (the new, replacement one anyway) the first time, it turns on the signal lights up front and keeps them on solid. One more push turns the headlights on as well and keeps the turn signal (front ones) steady on. Maybe the turn signal flashing input isn't getting past the signal to keep the running lights on? Or something along those lines...

That's exactly what is happening... I did a short video demonstrating the behavior. I'm not sure what the cables for the flasher should look like or if the PO modified anything, maybe someone can tell by looking at them in the vid (?) I don't know what a Wig-Wag Mod is :hihi2:
Remember: I replaced the LED's with the original incandescents and the behavior was the same!!

https://vimeo.com/73268008

Any thoughts?

[Jonathan]

That's exactly what is happening... I did a short video demonstrating the behavior. I'm not sure what the cables for the flasher should look like or if the PO modified anything, maybe someone can tell by looking at them in the vid (?) I don't know what a Wig-Wag Mod is :hihi2:
Remember: I replaced the LED's with the original incandescents and the behavior was the same!!

https://vimeo.com/73268008

Any thoughts?

From your video, the light blue plastic splices aren't original. I can't make it out from the video, but if there is a second wire coming into this splice in addition to the wire it is clipped on, that would be getting spliced off somewhere it wasn't originally intended to go. I don't believe the car came originally with a single one of these plastic splice parts anywhere.

I also can't trace back to where exactly that diode (the blue cylinder looking thing) is coming or going. On the diagram, you can see it should be connected with yellow and black and be coming into the relay receptacle.

Have a look at this screen capture from the overall car wiring diagram, zoomed into the relay flasher area. (Do you have this complete diagram btw? It can be found in the resources section.)

Confirm your wiring is where it should be and not so much duplicating what the PO left for you. It seems like your light green/brown wires aren't quite right?

21634

[Ron]

The wig-wag mod is where the side marker and front parking light alternate on-off opposite of each other when the turn signal is on. Normally, the side marker does whatever the front parking light and tail lights do.

In the vid, it didn't look like you had tail lights with the lights and turn signals on?

[Marigolo]

From your video, the light blue plastic splices aren't original. I can't make it out from the video, but if there is a second wire coming into this splice in addition to the wire it is clipped on, that would be getting spliced off somewhere it wasn't originally intended to go. I don't believe the car came originally with a single one of these plastic splice parts anywhere.

I also can't trace back to where exactly that diode (the blue cylinder looking thing) is coming or going. On the diagram, you can see it should be connected with yellow and black and be coming into the relay receptacle.

Have a look at this screen capture from the overall car wiring diagram, zoomed into the relay flasher area. (Do you have this complete diagram btw? It can be found in the resources section.)

Confirm your wiring is where it should be and not so much duplicating what the PO left for you. It seems like your light green/brown wires aren't quite right?

21634

After a sleepless night tossing and turning thinking about circuit diagrams, failing flashers and electrical gremlins, a sudden thought entered my mind. A couple of weeks ago, I had replaced the turn signal sockets because the originals were in pretty bad shape. I bought some new ones at an auto parts store and with a slight mod they fit perfectly and even locked into the amber casing. I connected red with red, black ground from the socket with black in the car and the other black cable went into the green one from the car by default. I was still working with incandescents and they turned on, so hey, that works right?
WRONG.

This is how it was connected:
21643


The realization that came into my mind last night at 3:24 am was... what if I connected the cables the wrong way?

Today I experimented switching the polarity of the cables and Lo and behold, the darn things flashed. This was the correct wiring:
21642

As it turns out, I had been driving for a couple of weeks without the turn signals really working. When I saw the lights turn on, it never occurred to me to test the turn signals. I wrongly assumed everything was working fine.
So now we know that the wrong polarity in the socket means no flashing lights, incandescent OR LED (when I say WE I really mean I)
I'm glad it didn't get more complicated than that and very grateful for all your suggestions and help. I must admit I kinda' feel like a fool, but hopefully, this solution can help someone in the future.
Best,
M

[DeLorean03]

Glad you got it dude (: !

[Marigolo]

Glad you got it dude (: !

Thanks!
:yesss:

[Jonathan]

Glad you got it dude (: !


Thanks!
:yesss:

+1!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2HBdRCroks