Mileage and value

[Timebender]

I don't know if this was posted before, but I think it's a pretty good question/subject.
First off, I know a lot of guys here say that Deloreans were made to be driven- those that are 30 years old and only have 8,000 some odd miles are the ones that will typically have lots of problems- fuel system, interior, etc.

In the real automotive world with collectible classic cars, low mileage is a good thing- and low mile collectibles usually are worth a whole lot of beans. But what about the D? If it's in great shape, running well to releable DD status, interior is great, etc, but has 200,000 miles on it, will it still be worth $20k, $25k, $30k or more? Or will it be more of a $15,000 D?

The reason I ask is I'm considering a D to replace my current daily driver. I drive 106 miles round trip everyday, so I rack up a lot of miles. I do have a motorcycle I ride a couple times or more a week if the weather is pretty good (not raining or in the 40's...). So eventually I could easily have 200,000 miles or more on it within a given time. Would the D be relegated at that point to being a $10,000 car, even if the exterior is great, the interior is well taken care of and so on?

[Michael]

For those in the know, mileage does not matter a lot if you plan on driving the car....BUT mileage does affect value. Which would you want more a car with 50k miles or one with 200k? For collectors, mileage matters even more since they do not consider it to be a driver, they just want one with 500 original miles to display. These cars do tend to bring the most money(even though the sorted out 50k mile car is most likely to be more dependable).

I personally don't worry too much about mileage as I think the fun I have derived from driving the car is well worth the depreciation hit. Whether it's worth it to you is a question only you can answer.

[Timebender]

Understood and valid points.
I really don't plan on selling it ever (plan...). But faced with spending $20k on a new car that will depreciate by $3k when I drive it off the lot, then in 10 years be worth a couple thousand at best, not to mention cost of repairs at a shop where they charge $50 or more for labor once I hit the 100k mark, or getting a D and driving the daylights out of it, doing my own repairs (I don't think it's all that difficult having built air-cooled VW engines and now restoring a Chevy 350) - plus there's lots of great info and help here.

And the D could (versus would) depreciate over a much longer period, not to mention non-running D's with no interiors are still going for around $5-7k...

Now if I can convince the wife.

[refugeefromcalif]

This is a topic that I pondered when I bought 6599. It had only 4,357 miles when I paid for it.
Question to myself was, Keep it as a Collector car or, Drive it?


http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=15224&d=1354473736



Since I've had it I've decided, I'm going to drive the Crap out of this car and don't care if it racks up 200,000 miles in the process. :)
Where's the Fun of ownership when all you do is go out and Ogle the car once in a while? That's what you do with a painting or sculpture.

Since I've had mine, (2 1/2 months), I've put over 3,500 miles on it. I've put less then 1,000 on my new Grand Caravan, and I've had it a month longer.

My D has become my daily driver.

George

EDIT: I know I paid Way to much for my car and I know it's value will Never be again what I paid but, I had the money and I decided to, Live the,(My) Dream. :D

[mluder]

When I bought my car it had less than 8000 miles on it. I learned the low millage was a blessing and a curse. My car was pretty clean however, not being driven regularly for about ten years meant that all the little things that might have broken over the years decided to star failing once I started driving it regularly.

I don't mind - it's fun to have little projects to work on and the joy of driving well outweighs the headache of the work and cost of parts.
I've had my car for a year and a half now and have added about 4000 miles to it.

Cheers
Steve

[Rich]

There can be no statistics to verify the following statement relative to DeLorean odometer readings for any specific car, only in general - will state it anyway.

Given the less-than-perfect reliability of the speedometer angle drive and associated speedo drive hardware on these cars one should expect that the actual miles on a given DeLorean might be higher than what is shown on its odometer. If the speedo drive stops working then the odometer stops counting. And the car can of course keep racking up the miles while leaving the odometer miles "behind". For a well-maintained car the difference will be minimal or zero.

Any valuation or service interval decisions based on "miles" can of course only be based on the odometer reading. Whether it's accurate or not.

[David T]

As is the case of any collectible car, the lower the miles the more the value.

The other question, buy a new car and swallow the depreciation or fix up and run the cr-p out of a Delorean, that is a VERY good question. If you find it practical to drive a 2 seater and you can find an insurance company that will replace the car for it's full true value if stolen or totaled, you can come out much cheaper buying a good Delorean, spending a lot of money on it and then driving the piss out of as a daily driver. Don't expect it to be worth a whole lot when you are done but adding up all of the money you will spend over the use of the car you will be better off. Part of the logic for buying ANY used car. A Delorean is great on gas and once sorted out can be very reliable. It is not a very good car to drive in snow and if you need parts or service you might have to have another car you can use till you can get the parts and fix it. BTW, there are more than a few very fine examples of low mileage Deloreans that are also well sorted out. Collectors in general do not mind fixing up a low mileage car. That you can do but you cannot undo high mileage.
David Teitelbaum

[Shep]

I've experienced first-hand how a low mileage DeLorean can have major mechanical issues. When I bought my D, I was told it was in running condition. When the transport arrived to pick it up, it started smoking and would not run. I thought it was only a case of bad gas, but upon further investigation, it was also discovered that the lower cylinder liner seals had ruptured, requiring a complete engine rebuild. The repair started with a fuel system and engine rebuild, but now there's a whole host of problems that have been discovered that are being fixed, and I have spent nearly twice as much for this repair than I originally paid for it! Included in that list is a complete brake system rebuild, A/C system repair, new radiator, cooling fans, suspension components, door seals, rear headliner, tires, refurbished wheels, frame/fiberglass repair, and a whole host of other stuff I'm forgetting.

There's another part of the equation: many of these low mileage DeLoreans don't get driven enough for those "ticking time bombs" to present themselves. The owners don't drive it often enough to get used to the way it handles, and in doing so, they don't notice when things aren't quite right. When they finally do drive it, there is a much higher tolerance of how differently it can handle before they notice. Much of that may be attributed to them getting used to their daily drivers, and knowing that DeLoreans handle differently, thus assuming that any strange behavior is simply "normal for DeLoreans". The higher mileage D's get driven more often, so the owners are much more likely to notice that there is something up. Mine believe it or not was never driven on the road in the two years prior to my purchase -- it was run until it reached operating temperatures every month or so, but stayed in park the whole time, always sitting in the garage or the driveway. Yet another consequence with low mileage cars: just because they run doesn't mean they drive, as I found out the hard way.


As is the case of any collectible car, the lower the miles the more the value.Assuming the condition is the same, of course. Most of the D's with major mechanical problems that I have come across tend to be low miles due to sitting, storage, or lack of use. I'm not sure what the statistical percentage is per se however. That being said, a car with 2,000 miles that doesn't even come close to running are in many cases worth less than a car with 20,000 miles that runs perfectly fine. The best case scenario is a car with very low miles that runs flawlessly and has zero major mechanical issues -- those are usually worth the most.

[vwdmc16]

My car was pretty well beat and probably never will be a shining example of the marque, im also planning to drive the hell out of it, that is what its for! Id love to get a carfax report as I suspect it may have over 100k. But I know mileage decreases value in nearly every situation. My car will also never be 100% stock under my ownership so if anyone has to buy it from me they are going to have to be happy with more than just 6 digit mileage. Everytime the odometer turns over another 1k I smile because im proud that I did that instead of letting her sit.

[Timebender]

I'm with the thought of driving the daylights out of it, and if I keep it in good running condition, keep it clean inside and well maintained, after 200,000 miles and 10 years, it's gotta be worth more than a non-running, rusted frame, missing interior (or destroyed interior) Delorean...
And if worse comes to worse, maybe, I do the time machine conversion and make back some money on it..

Or not.

[DeLorean]

Got to drive the car to enjoy the car. Sitting in the garage, never getting use? Not good for the owner or the car.

[Shep]

Got to drive the car to enjoy the car. Sitting in the garage, never getting use?Bragging rights? I completely agree with you -- unless it's gold-plated, has an original Legend engine, or was screen used in the BTTF franchise, it's meant to be driven -- but surely there's got to be a reason why some guys own them but never drive them. Being able to say you have one is the only thing I can think of.

[Michael]

People derive pleasure from these cars in different ways. Some drive, some like to put them on a pedestal and rub on them, some modify, some just drive on rare occasions....as long as they are enjoying the ownership experience, who are we to say what's the right way or the wrong way. The point is to enjoy it and as long as that criteria is being met, the the car is doing its job, no matter how much or little its getting driven.

[Morpheus]

^ Very well said, Michael. :thumbup2:

[David T]

I agree with what Michael says, I just want to add that even though the owner may "enjoy" his car in any manner he chooses, we all are just custodians of these cars. One day it will be someone else's turn to enjoy your car. If the present owner cares about the value of the car the better he takes care of it the more it will be worth. That relates to the mileage too. No matter how much we nay disagree, collectors put a higher value on a lower mileage car, all other things being equal, than a higher mileage car. Then the argument becomes, "Is a higher mileage WELL TAKEN CARE OF CAR worth more than a low mileage car that needs a LOT of work"?. The answer now becomes, "It depends". Just what is the mileage and condition and how does it compare to the low mileage car. There are ways to calculate this. Comparable sales at auction are one way. The calculated cost to fix up a car to a certain level can be another. Just keep in mind no amount of money can reduce the # of accumulated miles on a car. Puts a different light on the "New Builds" doesn't it?
David Teitelbaum

[AugustneverEnds]

For a bit of perspective, I picked up my DeLorean this August with 96,000 miles on the odometer. The engine is a replacement PRV installed in the late 90s so it only has 25,000 miles or so. I would call my car a maintained driver, perfect, not even close, but overall very nice to look at and drive. I replaced the exhaust manifold gaskets and have been doing some minor reconditioning i.e. painting the louvres, engine cover etc... The only major item to be checked off is recharging the A/C system. The price? $12,000.00. Fair? I thought so and I have been enjoying every minute with the car since.

[jackb]

I'm in the same boat as you, OP. My commute is ~110 miles a day round trip, the miles just pile on. I dont want to put ridiculous miles on my D, so I have a Civic (bought used) that is my DD, and the D is for fun. When I get moved to a base where I will live closer to work, I may make the D my DD, IDK. Until then, I'll use the Civic which is quieter (interior) has cruise control, and gets better gas mileage (main reason).