Anyone know this car?

[EKap]

Need help. Very close to bidding on this car.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150964104622&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:MOTORS:1123#ht_500wt_1182

Name of owner is Mike Allread from Virginia. He sent me invoice from DMC in California from 2001. No rust.

If anyone knows the history, I would appreciate your advice.

I think this may finally be the one for me!

Eric

[Shep]

I did a quick search for VIN 3401 on the forums and didn't come across anything. If the owner's on here, he hasn't posted his VIN anywhere.

I can see the front end recall was done (red paint on the firewall), and he has what looks like the original window sticker (new one shouldn't be weathered and folded like that). The part of the frame he showed had only minor rust, so that's always a good thing. The seller seems to be forthcoming about the issues he's aware of. Really the only thing I see that might give you hesitation is the fender antenna, although I personally am a fan of them. It's not terribly hard to replace it with a rear power antenna and cover or patch the hole though. The yellow coolant bottle can easily be replaced with a stainless steel one from various vendors, but again, it's a matter of taste.

I'm not sure the DeLorean One part matters, since it was in 2001, but he doesn't have any nearby vendors, so I can easily see why he didn't get it checked out before listing it on eBay. I don't think shipping it off to PJ Grady's for a checkup would have been a good return on investment for him, but perhaps one of the Virginia owners on here knows him and can provide more information.

[EKap]

Thanks for the quick response. I don't understand what you mean about the rear antenna. Is there some type of issue for Deloreans about this?
What you do think is a good price for the car?
Eric

[Jonathan]

Hi Eric,

Just to add a couple observations from what EMDF was saying:

- Throttle deice shield looks to be in place so perhaps that recall was done as well.
- I don't recognize the type of stereo head unit, so I'm not sure if it has a CD player or not as it mentions in the description.
- The right front fender antenna and whether you like it is more just personal preference. Cars went from having a windshield mounted one, to the front fender one, to the rear power antenna. It was just a matter of when your particular car was made over the 9,000 that were produced. I have this same sort of antenna and have no complaints.
- Your tripmeter reset plunger has been snapped off. Mine has/had the same problem. The plunger looks like you should twist it, but it is meant to be pushed. Twisting them usually breaks them. Not uncommon, but not too terribly hard to fix. You're looking at $20-$30 worth of parts and some of your time and patience to take out the instrument cluster and do the work behind the speedo.
- Frame looks okay from the one or two pictures you can see anything, but I would request more from other areas just to be sure. Not saying at all this is the case with your seller, but when I bought my car, the pictures were taken showing very particular areas on the car and not of others. And that was not by coincidence unfortunately. The best would be to get a local owner to go see it (with you if possible).
- You can see part of an orange fuel line hose up through the fuel accumulator opening underneath. There was a discussion recently on here about the background on these replacement orange coloured fuel hoses. Perhaps ask the owner about the history of any fuel system work or repairs. I don't remember the specifics at the moment.
- The price of what it is worth is a hard question so influenced by the economy. I see the bids right now are around $14k. That is a good price. If they got to $24k, maybe that is getting towards the ceiling. And if it were bought for $34k, that is too much. I know that is not exactly the answer you are looking for, but I hope it helps a little bit.

Good luck.

EDIT: I should say though, after listing some concerns above, that the car looks very nice overall. If it didn't, this list would be three times as long :)

[Shep]

Thanks for the quick response. I don't understand what you mean about the rear antenna. Is there some type of issue for Deloreans about this?
As Jonathan said, it changed throughout production. They started out embedded in the windshield, but had reception problems. Then they moved it to the fender, but had complaints about how it looked. Finally, they made it a power antenna placed in the rear driver's side air vent, so when not in use, it would be all the way down and hidden out of sight. Some owners will take the fender antennas off and replace it with the power antenna because they do not like the look of it, and it's a fairly simple DIY job to do, but most leave it on there. In terms of functionality, both basically get the same reception, which is why it's a matter of preference. I personally am sticking with mine, even though it is a generic stiff mast type (as opposed to the flexible antenna DMC used and is on VIN 3401 -- long story behind mine).


What you do think is a good price for the car?From the prices I've seen (i.e. take it at face value), teens (high or low) usually fits a DeLorean that may run, but needs some mechanical work done to it, or a rare DeLorean (low VIN, special history, etc.) that does not run and probably needs major repairs to bring it back to drivable condition. Low to mid 20's usually fits a DeLorean that runs, and may have a few mechanical or cosmetic issues, but nothing too serious that needs immediate attention. Dents, fuel mixture being off, things of this nature where it still runs, but may need a tune up. Rare DeLoreans that would otherwise fit into the teens category may be here as well. High 20's usually fits a DeLorean that runs, and only has very minor issues that do not need to be addressed for quite a while. Anything in the 30's or above is usually a BTTF conversion or is a seller overpricing (or buyer overvaluing) it, but I have seen some concours-level DeLoreans (read: 100% stock and accurate -- rarely driven, to keep them pristine) at that price range.

That being said, those categories are only the common trends. Many DeLoreans put on auction with no reserve wind up going for much less than what they're worth, and are the exceptions to the rule. Others tend to go for much higher than what they're worth due to uninformed buyers (sometimes trying to "flip it" for a profit, but I honestly have yet to see that successfully done) or someone willing to buy it at any price for whatever particular reason. For VIN 3401, if it is in the condition it appears to be in, with no unwelcome surprises, expect low to mid 20's to be about average, possibly going into the high 20's. I'd say anywhere from $23 to $28 would be the maximum it should go for, although if you really have your eye set on this one, don't limit yourself to that number -- it's a guideline, not a rule. Do keep in mind that there are transportation costs, whether of hauling it on a truck, or flying down there and driving it home, that have to be factored into your budget.

[Kevin]

I'm surprised I DON'T know this car, it's only an hour away from me and it's quite close to my VIN.

[SamHill]

I don't know it, but one was sold in Harrisonburg, VA not more than a few years ago... i think it sold in the mid teens IIRC.

[Jimmyvonviggle]

I think the consensus about the orange line coming off the accumulator was a bad thing that should be replaced.

[Ryan S.]

Sorry for my ignorance. How does VIN number affects the car price?
I am looking at a car that is at VIN 2500s. If it is in a good condition (Like the one above) what would be a fair price?

[rddmc]

Sorry for my ignorance. How does VIN number affects the car price?
I am looking at a car that is at VIN 2500s. If it is in a good condition (Like the one above) what would be a fair price?

I have met Mike and have know about his DeLorean for several years. He only lives 10 to 15 miles from me. I had always hoped that he would join some of us in local parades but it never worked out. He told me about the DeLorean One repairs the first time that I met him. My impression was that he didn't drive the DeLorean much, I think he had other collector cars at the time. If you would like me to take a look at the car for you and if Mike is agreeable PM me. I have never seen his DeLorean. With the holidays approaching my calendar is filling up quickly but I will be glad to help if I can.

Rod
10921

[Rich]

[QUOTE=Racerx;84493]Sorry for my ignorance. How does VIN number affects the car price?
I am looking at a car that is at VIN 2500s. [/QUOT
That's a good question if you are just starting your search. The VIN doesn't tend to be much of a price factor by itself unless maybe it is one of the very low ones (low 500's). Bigger factors in pricing a D are overall condition and maint. history, including recall kits. Beyond that are a lot of factors having more to do with your preferences (transmission type, interior color, which of the 3 hood types it has, originality vs. mods, more...). From there you can enjoy long chats among owners about the virtues of various model years and upgrades.

You may want to get hold of this recent book that addresses these kinds of questions. Buyers Guide to DeLoreans.

LINK: Illustrated-Buyers-Guide-DeLorean-Automobiles (http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Buyers-Guide-DeLorean-Automobiles/dp/0985657804/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355616258&sr=8-1&keywords=espey+delorean)

[Jonathan]

Sorry for my ignorance. How does VIN number affects the car price?
I am looking at a car that is at VIN 2500s. If it is in a good condition (Like the one above) what would be a fair price?

Hey,

No problem. Always time to learn.

Here is a reference that would pretty much explain the majority of the differences in the VINs as they were manufactured:

http://delorean.hu/blog/DeLorean_Millennium_Concours_Handbook.pdf

(Have some patience with the link as it is a 56 page PDF download).

The VIN is partly why the price is the price, but it is not usually the most important. Frame condition and lack of rust, body or panels condition, interior condition, updates and recalls having been done, etc., etc. are generally more important. Note the most important word in there is condition. You need to ensure the car you are considering buying is in good condition.

The part about what VIN you buy that factors in is what is somewhat explained in various pages of the Concours Manual. It is basically telling you what changes occurred to the assembly and manufacturing of the cars in 81 and 82.

For example, the hood design went from what is known as 1) grooved and with a gas flap, 2) grooved but no gas flap, 3) no grooves and no gas flap.

Or perhaps where the first number of VINs/cars had dark grey wheels and later cars had a light grey wheel.

Or the location of the radio antenna as mentioned above.

Sometimes DeLorean enthusists pursue a particular car or VIN because it is rare or maybe even they have a preference to it. Gas flap hoods for example are more rare and thus more expensive than a plain one. If you wanted to make a screen accurate Time Machine car from the movies, you would likely need to look for a manual transmission and gray interior first and then maybe even some of the other features like what style of door pull straps it had.

Early cars had problematic alternators which were changed part way into production. The stereo head unit changed from a Craig radio to an ASI unit part way through. An aspect of that for example is that the Craig radio did not have a clock display as there was one on the console. Those console clocks tend to work about as well the speedometers so they got away from them and chose a radio with a clock display and then changed the dash panel to omit the clock hole.

There is quite a long list of all these little silly nuiances of the car. Have a look through the Concours manual and get familiar with some of them. Now, when you go look at cars for sale, keep in mind that over 30 years, previous owners could have swapped out parts with replacements that might not have been consistent with the manual. Take the colour scheme on the sunvisors for example. A purist might get on your case if you have the wrong colour facing down, but like most of us, I'm happier with a car complete with functional parts, and don't care too much about these little things.

Hope that answers your question in a round about way.

[Shep]

Sorry for my ignorance. How does VIN number affects the car price?
I am looking at a car that is at VIN 2500s. If it is in a good condition (Like the one above) what would be a fair price?Unless it's a 500-series VIN (i.e. from 500 to 599) or is a notable number (BTTF years for example: 1885, 1955, 1985, 2015), the VIN number itself usually doesn't affect the price. Some of them do have history behind them however, such as it being a company car, or being owned by famous people, or having Legend Industries engines in them (1981 turbo conversions commissioned by DMC), or something of a similar nature. All the company cars are listed in this DMC document (http://deloreanmuseum.org/archives-ninepages.html), so it's easy enough to verify that kind of claim. In these cases, the VIN numbers are documented with this history, so having that particular DeLorean would increase the value, although depending on condition and what the history is, it may not be by much.

Another thing mentioned in more detail above is that certain things changed throughout production, and sometimes owners will seek out certain VIN ranges because of it. I for example wanted a gas flap hood so I didn't always have to open the hood just to fill up, so I limited myself only to the earlier DeLoreans. There are a much bigger number of DeLoreans out there with the non-gas-flap hoods, so this did limit my choices quite a bit. Some owners insist on a gray interior, so they would limit themselves to the later VIN's. Some want the earlier dark gray wheels (the ones that look dirty and match the front/rear fascias), and others want the later silver wheels (matching the stainless steel). Even though the only "options" were transmission type and interior color, there are many, many things that changed throughout production, even down to the lettering on the A/C panel, so a VIN number can give you a general idea of what instance of those production changes to expect. This doesn't necessarily affect the value, but if there's a combination you're aiming for, you can use the VIN number to determine which DeLoreans to focus on.

By the way, don't be afraid to ask questions! Even if you think it's a dumb question that's been answered a million times, you're learning, and we love to help! :)

[Ryan S.]

Wow. This is fantastic. I am learning a ton here.
Thanks for taking time to explain the basics to me.

[thirdmanj]

Looks like a pretty good deal at the moment.

[Shep]

Looks like a pretty good deal at the moment.I've honestly never dealt with eBay motors enough to know this, but does the whole "last minute bidding war" thing happen to the autos sold there? It seems all the lower-priced items (including an engine I bought some odd years ago) are prone to this, but I'm not sure if the big-ticket items are as well. As of this post, it is an amazing deal at $15,200, which is why I'm wondering.

[ccurzio]

I've honestly never dealt with eBay motors enough to know this, but does the whole "last minute bidding war" thing happen to the autos sold there?

Yep. I bought my DeLorean on eBay. Not only did the price jump significantly in the last few minutes, some asshole tried desperately to snipe me in the last five seconds of the auction.

I'm here because he didn't win, but I won't say it wasn't close.

[Dangermouse]

Don't listen to Shep and all his "Low VIN" mumbo jumbo. He is clearly trying to boost the values of 500 series VINs because he owns one. Everyone knows that there is a bell curve of pricing, wrt VINs, and the peak is somewhere between 2700 and 2800, when the factory guys were really on top of quality, with a further premium for autos 8)


Seriously, I assume you have read this:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?371-Please-read-before-posting-%E2%80%9CI-want-a-cheap-DeLorean%E2%80%9D-or-%E2%80%9CProject-Car-Wanted%E2%80%9D-threads

Still valid today.

As said above, the fender antenna is a matter of taste. Moving the actual antenna is easy, however filling the hole is more difficult (Yes, that's what she said :) ). Needs someone skilled in stainless work, (usually at a DMC center/PJ Grady/DPI etc) but it can be plugged with a grommet until then.

[Shep]

Don't listen to Shep and all his "Low VIN" mumbo jumbo. He is clearly trying to boost the values of 500 series VINs because he owns one. Everyone knows that there is a bell curve of pricing, wrt VINs, and the peak is somewhere between 2700 and 2800, when the factory guys were really on top of quality, with a further premium for autos 8):hysterical:

Okay I will admit that I've learned that from other 500-series owners, so it may not be the most reliable information. Take that part at face value -- some believe it's true, but others obviously do not. ;)

[LEVY]

Don't listen to Shep and all his "Low VIN" mumbo jumbo. He is clearly trying to boost the values of 500 series VINs because he owns one. Everyone knows that there is a bell curve of pricing, wrt VINs, and the peak is somewhere between 2700 and 2800, when the factory guys were really on top of quality, with a further premium for autos 8).......

I heard the very first quality car out of the line was 2743 :D

LEVY