Scary - headlights died at night

[MML]

I'm literally just back from the scariest drive of my life.
I went out for a quick spin and was heading home when I noticed the binnacle illumination bulbs getting very dim. I thought I noticed a funny smell, which started getting worse and worse. It was a sort of a warm burning smell that stung the nostrils; I had to wind the windows down to get air.
I managed to get off the main road, and suddenly the headlights died. A few seconds earlier, and I would have found myself on a busy road in the pitch dark!

I was EXTREMELY lucky that I was now on a back road that led to the house, and there was no other traffic. I managed to see where I was going by holding on the highbeams, as they still worked. The 30 seconds it took to get in the gate were the longest ever.

Anyway I removed the now jammed-in headlight switch and found it was mush. See photo.

What on earth causes that to happen?? And can I get a new one?

Jeez, my heart is still racing.

http://i.imgur.com/owFHr.jpg

[Bitsyncmaster]

There are no NOS switches anymore. There is a new DMCH unit to replace it or you may be able to find a used OEM switch. You should install the switch relay so the switch does not overheat if you stick with the OEM style switch.

[MML]

There are no NOS switches anymore. There is a new DMCH unit to replace it or you may be able to find a used OEM switch. You should install the switch relay so the switch does not overheat if you stick with the OEM style switch.

Hi Dave,
I was just looking at DMCH's one - I guess it's 'new and improved'? I don't think I'll be going for an OEM one if there's a chance that could happen again.
What is the black box in the pic?

http://i.imgur.com/ZLyqt.jpg

[DMCMW Dave]

It contains some electronics and relays. The pushbutton on this one is merely a signal actuator and carries none of the current from the lighting system. The relays in the box carry the current.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The new switch works good and is pretty easy to install. I still run the OEM switch but since I have almost all LEDs for my lights, I don't have the melting problem.

[MML]

Ahh, sounds good. I'll order one up right away! I think LEDs in the AC panel/light switch are something I'm gonna look at too. That panel does get awfully hot.

Thanks for the help guys!

[Ryan King]

The new switch works good and is pretty easy to install. I still run the OEM switch but since I have almost all LEDs for my lights, I don't have the melting problem.

What is the size of the LED lightbulb for the switch?

[David T]

Of Course the switch failed at night in the dark. When else would you be using the headlights! The switch is a known "weak link". Your are certainly correct, in the dark on a country road outside the city it can get VERY dark. At least you quickly figured out how to get headlights at least temporarily.
David Teitelbaum

[MML]

Of Course the switch failed at night in the dark. When else would you be using the headlights! The switch is a known "weak link". Your are certainly correct, in the dark on a country road outside the city it can get VERY dark. At least you quickly figured out how to get headlights at least temporarily.
David Teitelbaum

Heh heh true, but increasingly lots of people are driving with low beams on during the day (a safety campaign they have going on over here)
http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Current-road-safety-campaigns/Daytime-running-lights/

It was a fluke finding out the high beams were working, I actually used the hazard lights for a few seconds to give me a bit of light (in desperation and sheer panic!!)

[MML]

Out of curiosity does anyone have a photo of what that switch it supposed to look like unmelted? I've never actually seen it in detail before. Just wondering.

[David T]

In the US they call it DTRL, Day Time Running Lights. Supposed to improve safety and make cars more noticable. I have my doubts. It uses the headlights but not tailights or marker lights. On a Delorean it would just overload an already undersized electrical system. In some States (Pennsylvania for one) it is now the LAW to turn your headlights on while driving through work zones. They can actually issue tickets if you don't. Many States now also require the headlights to be on if you use the windshield wipers. It is really getting crazy with the patchwork of different laws in each State!
David Teitelbaum

[Rhsxo]

I managed to get off the main road, and suddenly the headlights died. A few seconds earlier, and I would have found myself on a busy road in the pitch dark!

I had this happen to me one time.

I was driving my 1959 VW Bug on a country road at around 10 p.m. and decided to hit my high beams. Thats when all of the sudden, my lights cut out. I hit the button again hoping that by turning my high beams off, it would bring back my regular lights. Nope! Didn't work. Pitch black for the next 3 miles.

Good thing about living in the country, their is no one on the road at night but I will say that I was scared to death as their are no street lights in the country. You just pray nothing runs in front of you (primarily animals). When I got closer to home, I was fine as their were street lights everywhere.

Turns out it was just the high beam switch. Went to Napa, bought a new switch for $8 and I was up and going again.

[Dangermouse]

Gas station
2 flashlights
Duct tape

Problem solved :)

[dustybarn]

I went all-LED (headlights excepted) for that reason. I'd heard the switch was a tad weak.

I had a similarly harrowing experience with 1776 the day I bought her. On the way back from NC, at night, somewhere in Virginia (I think), in a rainstorm, everything went dead. The engine stalled, everything went black. It was like the scene in Apollo 13 where Tom Hanks describes having the instrument lights in his plane go out at night over the ocean.

I turned the headlight switch off, coasted to the side of the road, turned off the ignition, and went, "Hmmmmmmm......".

Then I turned the ignition back on and tried to restart the car. It cranked normally and instantly restarted. I turned the headlights back on and continued on my way.

I have no idea what happened, and haven't had anything like that happen since.

These cars are weird (and I mean that in the best possible way).

[DeLorean]

you should note that the DMCH headlight switch "update" is NOT 100% reliable either...

[DMC5180]

What is the size of the LED lightbulb for the switch?

This one: http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-wedge-base/74-led-bulb-1-led-wedge-base/226/

[Ron]

you should note that the DMCH headlight switch "update" is NOT 100% reliable either...
+1 ...don't connect/use the auto-off feature. (There is a mod that supposedly fixes the problem...)

[DMC5180]

you should note that the DMCH headlight switch "update" is NOT 100% reliable either...

True there were a few isolated cases with the original (2006) switches suddenly shutting-off. It pertained to the the Auto-off feature inadvertently being triggered. It was determined that in those cases there were Other contributing wiring factors involved. However, to be safe DMCH no longer ships the switch with the auto-off feature and "recommends it to be disconnected" if you have it. I have the early version (2006) switch (w/the auto-off still functioning). I've never had an issue of any kind with the switch.

I am unaware of any issues with the later version switches if properly installed.

[Tillsy]

WTF?! One of the main reasons I was considered that new DMCH switch was for the auto-off, as I constantly fall for leaving them on.

So 7, that's SEVEN, years ago there was a fault with it so that feature was simply disabled? The problem not yet fixed in the 7 years, or 364 weeks, or 2,548 days later?

Won't be ordering that then :(

[Bitsyncmaster]

One issue with the new switch was they were shipping them a with 5 amp fuse. That fuse has to power the "running lights". That power is about 5 amps if you still have all incandescent bulbs. So use a 10 amp fuse.

The auto off problem was a noise on the signal they used to detect engine off. If the software was changed to keep looking at that signal and abort the auto off if it went back to 12 volts it would have corrected the problem. I ran into a same noise issue with the same signal on my dome light unit. A software change fixed it. There were 3 people with the first DMCH switches that had the headlights turn off on them while driving.

[Kenny_Z]

I parked my Mustang a couple of weeks ago for this same problem. I just haven't had time to look at it. I think the floor switch is going bad. I kicked it a few times and the lights came back on. Before I go into my console again I plan to purchase a new switch and some LEDs as something to fix while I'm in there.

[Ron]

I understood that the issue could be resolved by running a separate wire to the battery for reference voltage (but they still said to disconnect it...) ??
FWIW, I did the mod to mine and haven't had had a problem yet. (My computer MB died recently and I haven't transferred all of my info off of the HD yet, but I can dig up the details if searching around don't help...).

[WelmoedJ]

A lot of these light problems could have been prevented when installing Toby's upgrade for the light switch.
Using that setup no longer routes the power to the headlights through the switch, the main reason the switch eventually dies.

Keep your original light switch protected and install the relay.
Can't be either the installation or price (both no brainers) that would keep you from doing it.

[AugustneverEnds]

While on the subject of the light switch, I was wondering if anyone has ever had difficulty installing the DMCH upgrade switch. I received mine this week and I am having a devil of a time with it. I suspect someone in the past spliced a connector into the red/orange wire because it is very short, so short I cannot get the female connector I crimped onto the end to stay in the new plug. What does the red/orange wire supply power for? I'm getting close to giving in and having a professional deal with it. Thanks for any help :smile:

[WelmoedJ]

While on the subject of the light switch, I was wondering if anyone has ever had difficulty installing the DMCH upgrade switch. I received mine this week and I am having a devil of a time with it. I suspect someone in the past spliced a connector into the red/orange wire because it is very short, so short I cannot get the female connector I crimped onto the end to stay in the new plug. What does the red/orange wire supply power for? I'm getting close to giving in and having a professional deal with it. Thanks for any help :smile:

Right had side tail, sidemarkers, one license plate light, connected to one side of the rheostat, to A/C panel light relay, clock, hazard switch and probably more.
The diagram on DMCTalk will tell you all.

[Bitsyncmaster]

They do use the wrong type crimp pins. FYI....you can get pins made for one circuit and they are very tight fitting so the one pin will not fall out. When you use pins on multi contact connectors you get a different pin so you don't need a hammer or pry bar to connect and remove the connector. They have the one circuit pins.

The headlight low and high beams have relays in the OEM design. It's only the marker lights and instrument bulbs that get current through the light switch. The relay change some install is to remove those marker and instrument bulb loads.

[DMC5180]

While on the subject of the light switch, I was wondering if anyone has ever had difficulty installing the DMCH upgrade switch. I received mine this week and I am having a devil of a time with it. I suspect someone in the past spliced a connector into the red/orange wire because it is very short, so short I cannot get the female connector I crimped onto the end to stay in the new plug. What does the red/orange wire supply power for? I'm getting close to giving in and having a professional deal with it. Thanks for any help :smile:

Can you post a photo of this issue? I'm having trouble envisioning how you have an ultra short wire.

[AugustneverEnds]

Can you post a photo of this issue? I'm having trouble envisioning how you have an ultra short wire.

Sure, I will post a pic tomorrow. The car is in storage on one side of town and I live on the other side.

[MML]

I now have lights again! Got the new DMCH kit fitted today.
Here's a better shot of the remains of the old one.

http://i.imgur.com/UBv2Akc.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/p5BRFqg.jpg

[Elvis]

I have the DMCH Switch with the auto shutt off feature installed. But I added
two little capacitors (worth 2 cents) and so it never failed. Absolutely reliable !


I like the auto shut off feature.


Elvis & 6548

[AugustneverEnds]

To pick up where I left off, I got the switch to work last night except the headlights and high beams still are not turning on. Also the DMCH fuse blew, so replaced it with a 15 amp. Relays tested good and fuses are ok. And, like an idiot, I forgot to take some pics of my very short red/orange wire :banghead: Sorry DMC5180!

I will try checking all of my wiring work tonight and see if anything is not secure. Too much blood in my head to keep going last night!

[MML]

Also the DMCH fuse blew, so replaced it with a 15 amp. !

Well I'll be damned. Guess what just happened to me?

It never rains but it pours... I took the car out for its first run since the switch was fitted, and after driving round town for 20 minutes, I went back to the house for petrol money. As I was about to hop out, all the lights went off (without the horrible burning smell, which was nice :-P )
I checked the fuse... and it was blown. Again I'm glad I wasn't out on the road.

What gives???

[Chris4099]

I find this really humorous. When I got the first run of their switches, they sent out a recall notice later regarding the auto-off feature. It was even sent via certified mail! But they have since put in an underrated fuse and have caused way more sudden headlight failures then the auto-off feature ever did. Do they at least fix it with a higher amp fuse or notify users? Nope. Very odd. I would really love to hear their justification to have a 5 amp fuse in that spot.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Was it a 5 amp fuse? If so, put in a 10 amp.

[MML]

Was it a 5 amp fuse? If so, put in a 10 amp.

Nope, a 10 amp was supplied!
Are other people (besides AugustneverEnds) having this problem? I don't recall seeing it mentioned here before.

One thing to mention, I don't know if it's relevant, (as my knowledge of electrical-related stuff is almost zero) is that I have modern H4 bulbs for the low beams, and H1 for the high beams... could that be a factor in the fuse blowing?

[Chris4099]

One thing to mention, I don't know if it's relevant, (as my knowledge of electrical-related stuff is almost zero) is that I have modern H4 bulbs for the low beams, and H1 for the high beams... could that be a factor in the fuse blowing?

The headlights are switched via relays and have separate fuses. So that DMCH switch fuse only has to power the main beam relay, AC panel relay, all side marker lights, parking lights and the binnacle lights. If it came with a 10 amp, that's much better now. Maybe you had an intermittent short somewhere?

[DeLorean]

Seems s though the DMC-H headlight switch is somewhat questionable... I will say however, after my 1st headlights going out on the highway adventure with the DMCH switch, I (so far) have has no other problems since upgrading to a 15 amp fuse... and the car has not burned down either.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I had calculated the power for all the "running" lights a long time ago and it was in the 5 to 6 amp (from memory) ball park. So a 10 amp fuse should work. You could always do a measurement of the current by removing the fuse and using an amp-meter. That would tell you if your running close the fuse rating or you have an intermittent short somewhere.

[MML]

I had calculated the power for all the "running" lights a long time ago and it was in the 5 to 6 amp (from memory) ball park. So a 10 amp fuse should work. You could always do a measurement of the current by removing the fuse and using an amp-meter. That would tell you if your running close the fuse rating or you have an intermittent short somewhere.

Thanks David, I'll have to get a mechanic or someone to check that for me... I hope I can get this sorted... I really hate dealing with electrical issues!
Another thing I might do is order LEDs for the binnacle and AC panel, would that help matters at all?

[AugustneverEnds]

Well I'll be damned. Guess what just happened to me?

It never rains but it pours... I took the car out for its first run since the switch was fitted, and after driving round town for 20 minutes, I went back to the house for petrol money. As I was about to hop out, all the lights went off (without the horrible burning smell, which was nice :-P )
I checked the fuse... and it was blown. Again I'm glad I wasn't out on the road.

What gives???

Sorry to hear about your troubles MML... I am running incandescent bulbs all around, maybe DMCH is trying to convince us we should be using LEDs? Also I think a lot of my problems are coming from 20 or so years of previous owner wire butchery :chairshot:

Best of luck solving these mysteries!

[Chris4099]

Another thing I might do is order LEDs for the binnacle and AC panel, would that help matters at all?

That might help a little bit (certainly wouldn't hurt and do have other advantages). However, please note that LEDs don't dim like normal bulbs, so if you put them in the binnacle, they will be full brightness unless you go to great lengths to replace the dimmer with a PWM. You'll also want to yank out the AC panel relay and just put in a jumper as it wouldn't be able to dim the panel lights too. One of the best things to do is go into the rear tail lights and replace the 2 parking and 4 brake light bulbs with LEDs. The brake lights don't effect this issue but going LED does help with other issues and will provide a significant safety improvement. You can also replace the license plate lights (which are also powered through that fuse), so between that and the parking lights, you'll be more visible from the rear at night too! Finally there is the side marker lights. Pretty easy to do assuming the sockets are too badly rusted out.

If you do all of the above, about the only exterior lights you will have left on that circuit are your front marker lights. Unfortunately if you swap those out with LEDs, it will effect your turn signals too which means a new blinker relay. Not a big deal, but does represent more work and cost.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Yes LEDs will reduce the current through that fuse. Most gain is the front and rear "parking" lights.

[Ron]

I think you should follow Dave's suggestion of pulling the fuse and checking the amp draw. It is a simple as setting th meted to Amps, turning on all the lights and putting one probe in each fuse connection. ...go to the autoparts and rent to own one or they may do it for you... Most of them may carry meters that read up to 10 Amps, but if it is over that you have wiring problems anyway...

[AugustneverEnds]

1634616347

These are pics of the new DMCH headlight harness in my car. The red splice connector was a PO fix for something. The pink wire going from the connector to the harness is a replacement for the original red/orange wire (home depot didn't have any red/orange in stock :mad2:) The R/O wire was literally 1/2 to 3/4 inch when I first started working on this project which is why I had to replace it. The switch lights up and the marker lights and tails come on, still no headlights. What have I done wrong?

[Ron]

I'd try putting power on the Blue harness wire to see if the headlights came on. If they do, check for no Power on the Brown/Blue and Red/Green wires (key ON), or, loose or misplaced wire(s)...


Curious as to why you didn't use the black socket that comes with the switch?

[AugustneverEnds]

I'd try putting power on the Blue harness wire to see if the headlights came on. If they do, check for no Power on the Brown/Blue and Red/Green wires (key ON), or, loose or misplaced wire(s)...


Curious as to why you didn't use the black socket that comes with the switch?

Thanks Mr. Ron. I'll give it another shot this weekend. I was struggling to get the connectors to stay in the black socket and I've taken the thing apart so many times to troubleshoot, I just decided to keep the socket off until I know everything is in reliable working order.

[MML]

Bit of an update. I got my LEDs for the console and binnacle from superbrightleds.com today. First thing I did, before replacing the bulbs, was measure the current at the fuse socket. With the lights all on, it read 3.7 amps. I replaced all the centre console bulbs to begin with and checked the meter again, this time it read 4.2 amps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't that number be lower?
I haven't got around to replacing the binnacle ones yet.

Two other things I noticed... after turning off the lights and disconnecting the battery, the "lock doors" LED was still glowing very dimly and stayed like that for a minute or so... wtf?

Oh and the hazard button wasn't lighting, but I just read a post about altering the pins to touch the contacts a certain way, so I'll fix that tomorrow.

[Bitsyncmaster]

It's probably your one LED that is not working that caused your current reading that high. That fuse also powers the radio and windows. Did you have your radio off both times?

[MML]

It's probably your one LED that is not working that caused your current reading that high. That fuse also powers the radio and windows. Did you have your radio off both times?

Yep, the radio was off... but the first time I checked no LEDs were in at all, just the bulbs, although the hazard switch bulb wasn't lit (I think it's blown).

[MML]

Oh btw just to clarify I checked the inline fuse socket on the new headlight switch with the meter, not in the fusebox...

[Bitsyncmaster]

Oh btw just to clarify I checked the inline fuse socket on the new headlight switch with the meter, not in the fusebox...

Looks like the AC panel lights get power from fuse #11 if you still have the light relay. Most of us have removed that relay and jumpered to use the "parking light" circuit.

[MML]

I've done that little mod where you put in a jumper wire in place of the relay so the AC light come on with the headlights, is that what you mean?

[Bitsyncmaster]

I've done that little mod where you put in a jumper wire in place of the relay so the AC light come on with the headlights, is that what you mean?

Yes they get power from the headlight switch. Simple test, pull the fuse and see if they go out.

[MML]

Ahhh more headaches.
I tried replacing the hazard switch bulb with a LED. I modified the little pins as you're supposed to do but it didn't seem to work. I removed and reseated it in the socket a couple of times to see if it made any difference, but the LED would not light. On one attempt fuse #6 blew, and I replaced it.
As it stands now, for some reason, the hazard switch isn't working at all; if you press it the blinkers don't flash, nor do the green binnacle lights. Is it possible I blew or dislodged something else while I was poking around behind the console trying to get the switch removed?
When you press the switch, you can hear a click coming from under the dash somewhere, it sounds like a relay type of click.
I'm going to see if there are any working incandescent bulbs lying about tomorrow and test it with those to see what happens.


Back to the DMCH lightswitch/blowing fuse issue... when the hazard switch was removed I took another reading with the multimeter to eliminate the blown bulb, this time it was down to 2.9 amps. Looks like you were right Dave, the blown bulb was increasing the reading, with it out of the equation the reading was lower. But I'm still wondering why that fuse blew at all. Is it most likely a short circuit somewhere? Should I check and clean grounds and look for damaged wires?
I had the binnacle off shortly before the headlight problems, a connector inside had come slightly loose causing the red oil/handbrake lights on the right of the cluster to flicker. Could I have trapped some wires when I put it back? Just a thought.

I was trawling through some old posts on DMCHelp and found one where Dave mentioned getting a 20 amp fuse with the lightswitch assembly. I only got a 10 amp with mine. Here's the post:
http://www.dmchelp.com/showthread.php?1877-New-headlight-switch-what-can-make-this-5-amp-fuse-to-blow
I suppose I could put in a 15 or 20 amp fuse to stop it blowing again, but if there's a deeper problem that's making it blow, that would really have to be found.


Finally... the other thing, probably not related, I tried starting the car and heard 5 clicks in a row coming from what sounded like the relay compartment area, as soon as I turned on the ignition. I don't recall hearing them before. The car started up ok though.


It's one thing after another.... :angry0:

Sorry for the long winded response... I want to get everything written down before I go to bed!

[Bitsyncmaster]

You may have cooked a wire with that LED causing a short. Do your headlights still work? The first DMCH headlight units would burnout a circuit board trace if you shorted the headlight switch with the battery connected. Always disconnect the battery working in the center console.

My suggestion would be to remove the center console and look for damage and or disconnected plugs. It's common to get shorts with those wires running under the center console. Make sure your wire bundles have clearance where screws go and there are no sharp edges where you route the bundles.

I don't think you should increase the light switch unit fuse above 10 amps.

[MML]

Just wanted to wind this thread up as the problem's now fixed.
After some diagnosis it was found that one end of the bypass wire for the AC lights mod was inserted into the wrong terminal, causing a short circuit. Simple as that.
This must have happened recently as it was in the correct place for the last year and a half.

I can only guess someone was checking it and put it back in the wrong place by mistake. (I sure as hell didn't)

It was found by chance; I just happened to have a printout of the image below in my folder of wiring diagrams.

The wire was reinserted in the correct terminal, the lights were switched on, and didn't blow any fuses.

As seen here: http://odoc.ca/archive/images/OnlineRef/wiremod2.jpg

Just wanted to say thanks again to all who chipped in.

[sdg3205]

Ahhh more headaches.
I tried replacing the hazard switch bulb with a LED. I modified the little pins as you're supposed to do but it didn't seem to work. I removed and reseated it in the socket a couple of times to see if it made any difference, but the LED would not light. On one attempt fuse #6 blew, and I replaced it.
As it stands now, for some reason, the hazard switch isn't working at all; if you press it the blinkers don't flash, nor do the green binnacle lights. Is it possible I blew or dislodged something else while I was poking around behind the console trying to get the switch removed?
When you press the switch, you can hear a click coming from under the dash somewhere, it sounds like a relay type of click.
I'm going to see if there are any working incandescent bulbs lying about tomorrow and test it with those to see what happens.


Back to the DMCH lightswitch/blowing fuse issue... when the hazard switch was removed I took another reading with the multimeter to eliminate the blown bulb, this time it was down to 2.9 amps. Looks like you were right Dave, the blown bulb was increasing the reading, with it out of the equation the reading was lower. But I'm still wondering why that fuse blew at all. Is it most likely a short circuit somewhere? Should I check and clean grounds and look for damaged wires?
I had the binnacle off shortly before the headlight problems, a connector inside had come slightly loose causing the red oil/handbrake lights on the right of the cluster to flicker. Could I have trapped some wires when I put it back? Just a thought.

I was trawling through some old posts on DMCHelp and found one where Dave mentioned getting a 20 amp fuse with the lightswitch assembly. I only got a 10 amp with mine. Here's the post:
http://www.dmchelp.com/showthread.php?1877-New-headlight-switch-what-can-make-this-5-amp-fuse-to-blow
I suppose I could put in a 15 or 20 amp fuse to stop it blowing again, but if there's a deeper problem that's making it blow, that would really have to be found.


Finally... the other thing, probably not related, I tried starting the car and heard 5 clicks in a row coming from what sounded like the relay compartment area, as soon as I turned on the ignition. I don't recall hearing them before. The car started up ok though.


It's one thing after another.... :angry0:

Sorry for the long winded response... I want to get everything written down before I go to bed!

I was finishing up my lights today and hit the switch. They burned out almost instantly. I rooted around and found only a 5amp fuse in my DMCH updated light module.