Anybody Know Coins?

[Ron]

I had a guy make part of a payment with A $50 mint bag (Wells Fargo wrapped, uncirculated)
1980 (p) Lincoln Pennies. (Three rolls are split open.)
I Googled them and get prices all over the place. (I took them for face value...)

What's the $kinny?

[DMC5180]

I had a guy make part of a payment with A $50 mint bag (Wells Fargo wrapped, uncirculated)
1980 (p) Lincoln Pennies. (Three rolls are split open.)
I Googled them and get prices all over the place. (I took them for face value...)

What's the $kinny?

They are not rare by any means. That said, Brilliant Uncirculated or BU Rolls are worth a small premium of maybe $5.00 a roll if your willing wait months to sell them on EBAY . 1980 P cents are nearly 98% COPPER 2% ZINC They switched the composition to COPPER PLATED ZINC in mid 1982 (99% ZINC 1% COPPER). BTW It is Illegal to SELL COPPER PENNYS for Scrap.

Do you have 100 rolls or 97 complete rolls in the bag? Thats gotta weigh a TON.

[Ron]

They are not rare by any means. That said, Brilliant Uncirculated or BU Rolls are worth a small premium of maybe $5.00 a roll if your willing wait months to sell them on EBAY . 1980 P cents are nearly 98% COPPER 2% ZINC They switched the composition to COPPER PLATED ZINC in mid 1982 (99% ZINC 1% COPPER). BTW It is Illegal to SELL COPPER PENNYS for Scrap.

Do you have 100 rolls or 97 complete rolls in the bag? Thats gotta weigh a TON.
There are 97 good rolls, plus, 1 with the wrapper split (no coins have came out) and two rolls with the end split open (total of 10 loose coins)...and a U.S. Mint bag. ~34 lbs

Thanks!

[ccurzio]

The problem with rolls is twofold:

1. With them being wrapped as they are, there's no real way to ascertain the coins' value without cracking them open.

2. Rolls are not how you store coins that you want to hold more than face value. Since they are physically back-to-back and in contact with one another, the act of packing the rolls affects the value, storing them that way (the friction while being in the roll wears down the higher areas of the coin), and even UNpacking the rolls will cause wear and damage.

On the upside, if they are *ALL* 1980P coins and they came in a mint bag, chances are they are direct uncirculated straight from the Philadelphia mint. That's pretty neat, and it means the roll damage is minimal since they've been packed exactly once. (Since they say Wells Fargo though, this gives me pause.)

I'd be happy to give you a couple bucks for a roll or two. I don't know the condition of the '80Ps in my collection but they're probably not that good. I'd also like to see the mint bag too.

[Jonathan]

Ron,

I believe you could have legally refused the payment in pennies.

I recall there being a law where you can only pay up to a certain amount in coins. I heard it first way back in high school, and since then it may have changed since we have one and two dollar coins now in Canada. For some reason I think the max used to be $25 in coins of which only like $0.50 or $1.00 perhaps could be from pennies. I think most countries have a variation of the same law.

I tried googling it but didn't see any concrete answers other than a few on Snopes or Yahoo.

[ccurzio]

I recall there being a law where you can only pay up to a certain amount in coins.

Completely untrue in the United States.

United States Currency is legal tender for all debts, public and private. This includes coins.

[Spittybug]

Melt those puppies. $0.0239553 is the melt value for the 1909-1982 copper cent on January 11, 2013. Nice return. Just don't try to pass it off as a coin.


U.S.C. § 331 : US Code - Section 331: Mutilation, diminution, and falsification of coins
Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/17/331#) which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or Whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, orsells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightened - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

[thirdmanj]

Melt those puppies. $0.0239553 is the melt value for the 1909-1982 copper cent on January 11, 2013. Nice return. Just don't try to pass it off as a coin.


U.S.C. § 331 : US Code - Section 331: Mutilation, diminution, and falsification of coins
Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/17/331#) which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or Whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, orsells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightened - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.


Yeah, and when was the last time you read or heard about somebody getting prosecuted by the government for defacing currency?

I think this is just one of those laws that is exceedingly difficult to enforce, and rarely is. I've cruised numerous boardwalks and art shows and seen American coinage augmented and used for various purposes. Technically illeagal, yeah, but whatever.

Edit: Oh yeah, ever seen those "penny stretch" machines at theme parks or at zoos? Maybe they're protected by some special legislation or something, but hell, I stretched a penny at the Franklin Institute in PA. There's a science center in Richmond that has a "coin stretch lab" where you can deface and mutilate coinage in up to 3 different ways!

[Jonathan]

Completely untrue in the United States.

United States Currency is legal tender for all debts, public and private. This includes coins.

Looks like you are right. It appears the USA doesn't have the same sort of law that Canada and some other countries have adopted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender

It's Wikipedia, so not necessarily accurate, but it does mention what I had in mind in terms of the coin limits here in Canada.

[ccurzio]

Yeah, and when was the last time you read or heard about somebody getting prosecuted by the government for defacing currency?

I think this is just one of those laws that is exceedingly difficult to enforce, and rarely is. I've cruised numerous boardwalks and art shows and seen American coinage augmented and used for various purposes. Technically illeagal, yeah, but whatever.

Edit: Oh yeah, ever seen those "penny stretch" machines at theme parks or at zoos? Maybe they're protected by some special legislation or something, but hell, I stretched a penny at the Franklin Institute in PA. There's a science center in Richmond that has a "coin stretch lab" where you can deface and mutilate coinage in up to 3 different ways!

None of those things are illegal. Defacing currency is only illegal if you're attempting to fraudulently pass it off as something else.

[DMC5180]

None of those things are illegal. Defacing currency is only illegal if you're attempting to fraudulently pass it off as something else.

+1

Are Elongated Coins Legal?
You might be wondering if elongated coins are legal or not. Well, if you are a fan of elongated coins (and living in certain nations), then you are in luck! Elongated coins are legal, thanks to an aspect of the law which covers law-abiding citizens who just so happen to like mutilated coins.
While coins mutilated for the purpose of counterfeiting are (of course) illegal, as long as a mutilated coin is not being altered with the intent to counterfeit, then all is fine — at least in the United States.

Regarding payments in coin.

Title 31 (Money and Finance), Subtitle IV (Money), Chapter 51 (Coins and Currency), Subchapter I (Monetary System), Section 5103 (Legal Tender) of the United States Code states:

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.
What this statute means, in the words of the United States Treasury, is that "[A]ll United States money . . . is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. U.S. currency and coins can be used for making payments, but a debtor does not have to pay in legal tender, nor does a creditor have to accept legal tender. If a shoemaker wants to sell his products for 8000 jelly beans per pair, he's entitled to do so; the buyer cannot demand that he accept the equivalent value in legal tender instead. However, legal tender is the default method of payment assumed in contractual agreements involving payments for goods or services unless otherwise specified. So, for example, if an automobile dealer signs a contract agreeing to sell you a car for $8,000, but when you begin making monthly payments he rejects them and insists he wants to be paid in gold instead, you can go to court and have your debt discharged on the grounds that valid payment was offered and refused.

[Ron]

The problem with rolls is twofold:

1. With them being wrapped as they are, there's no real way to ascertain the coins' value without cracking them open.

2. Rolls are not how you store coins that you want to hold more than face value. Since they are physically back-to-back and in contact with one another, the act of packing the rolls affects the value, storing them that way (the friction while being in the roll wears down the higher areas of the coin), and even UNpacking the rolls will cause wear and damage.

On the upside, if they are *ALL* 1980P coins and they came in a mint bag, chances are they are direct uncirculated straight from the Philadelphia mint. That's pretty neat, and it means the roll damage is minimal since they've been packed exactly once. (Since they say Wells Fargo though, this gives me pause.)

I'd be happy to give you a couple bucks for a roll or two. I don't know the condition of the '80Ps in my collection but they're probably not that good. I'd also like to see the mint bag too.
They are all 1908(P) uncirculated.
fyi- the mint supplies the "Wells Fargo" wraper.
I can get $100 scrap locally...if I go that rout I'll hook you up....


Ron,

I believe you could have legally refused the payment in pennies.


Yeah, but I knew the older pennies are worth more scrap than face for a long time.... and the bank will take mint rolls w/o me having to "sign" them lol

=============

It is illegal to melt pennies and nickels now http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/82.1

Authority: 31 U.S.C. 5111(d).
Source: 72 FR 61055, Oct. 29, 2007, unless otherwise noted.
§ 82.1 Prohibitions.

Except as specifically authorized by the Secretary of the Treasury (or designee) or as otherwise provided in this part, no person shall export, melt, or treat:
(a) Any 5-cent coin of the United States; or
(b) Any one-cent coin of the United States.
§ 82.2 Exceptions.

(a) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against the exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins of the United States shall not apply to:
(1) The exportation in any one shipment of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins having an aggregate face value of not more than $100 that are to be legitimately used as money or for numismatic purposes. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to authorize export for the purpose of sale or resale of coins for melting or treatment by any person.
(2) The exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins carried on an individual, or in the personal effects of an individual, departing from a place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, when the aggregate face value is not more than $5, or when the aggregate face value is not more than $25 and it is clear that the purpose for exporting such coins is for legitimate personal numismatic, amusement, or recreational use.
(b) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against the treatment of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins shall not apply to the treatment of these coins for educational, amusement, novelty, jewelry, and similar purposes as long as the volumes treated and the nature of the treatment makes it clear that such treatment is not intended as a means by which to profit solely from the value of the metal content of the coins.
(c) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against the exportation, melting, or treatment of 5-cent and one-cent coins of the United States shall not apply to coins exported, melted, or treated incidental to the recycling of other materials so long as—
(1) Such 5-cent and one-cent coins were not added to the other materials for their metallurgical value;
(2) The volumes of the 5-cent coins and one-cent coins, relative to the volumes of the other materials recycled, makes it clear that the presence of such coins is merely incidental; and
(3) The separation of the 5-cent and one-cent coins from the other materials would be impracticable or cost prohibitive.
(d) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against the exportation, melting, or treatment of 5-cent coins shall not apply to 5-cent coins inscribed with the years 1942, 1943, 1944, or 1945 that are composed of an alloy comprising copper, silver and manganese.
(e) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against the exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins shall not apply to 5-cent coins and one-cent coins exported by a Federal Reserve Bank or a domestic depository institution, or to a foreign central bank, when the exportation of such 5-cent coins and one-cent coins is for use as circulating money.
(f)(1) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against exportation, melting, or treatment of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins of the United States shall not apply to coins exported, melted, or treated under a written license issued by the Secretary of the Treasury (or designee).
(2) Applications for licenses should be transmitted to the Director, United States Mint, 801 9th Street, NW., Washington, DC 20220.
§ 82.3 Definitions.

(a) 5-cent coin of the United States means a 5-cent coin minted and issued by the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to 31 U.S.C. 5112(a)(5).
(b) One-cent coin of the United States means a one-cent coin minted and issued by the Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to 31 U.S.C. 5112(a)(6).
(c) Export means to remove, send, ship, or carry, or to take any action with the intent to facilitate a person's removing, sending, shipping, or carrying, from the United States or any place subject to the jurisdiction thereof, to any place outside of the United States or to any place not subject to the jurisdiction thereof.
(d) Person means any individual, partnership, association, corporation, or other organization, but does not include an agency of the Government of the United States.
(e) Treat or treatment means to smelt, refine, or otherwise treat by heating, or by a chemical, electrical, or mechanical process.
§ 82.4 Penalties.

(a) Any person who exports, melts, or treats 5-cent coins or one-cent coins of the United States in violation of § 82.1 shall be subject to the penalties specified in 31 U.S.C. 5111(d), including a fine of not more than $10,000 and/or imprisonment of not more than 5 years.
(b) In addition to the penalties prescribed by 31 U.S.C. 5111(d), a person violating the prohibitions of this part may be subject to other penalties provided by law, including 18 U.S.C. 1001(a).

[refugeefromcalif]

They are all 1908(P) uncirculated.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

If they are all Truly 1908's, I'll buy the lot for $100.... :wink:

George

[ccurzio]

:shock: :shock: :shock:

If they are all Truly 1908's, I'll buy the lot for $100.... :wink:

I wouldn't. That would mean they were counterfeit, and valueless.

(There was no "P" mint mark in 1908, only "S".)

[Ron]

:shock: :shock: :shock:

If they are all Truly 1908's, I'll buy the lot for $100.... :wink:

GeorgeOops

[refugeefromcalif]

I wouldn't. That would mean they were counterfeit, and valueless.

(There was no "P" mint mark in 1908, only "S".)

My comment was meant to be, Humorous...

Although, I did get a 1943 "copper"? penny back in change from Mickey D's a month ago.
I'm still doing research on it. (I have a few Steelies from that year).


Oops

Been there, done that... :) (Dyslexia hits also me when typing a Lot at my age).


George

[DMC5180]

My comment was meant to be, Humorous...

Although, I did get a 1943 "copper"? penny back in change from Mickey D's a month ago.
I'm still doing research on it. (I have a few Steelies from that year).

George

That would be a RARE find IF it's not counterfeit. "Plated" Have you done a magnet test on it? I assume the 43 steelies were magnetic.

Better yet post a picture of it. The likely hood of it being genuine is slim. http://articles.latimes.com/1997/jul/22/local/me-15071